Current Events > Lower class individuals tend to be better at confict resolution.

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COVxy 12/21/17 9:22:34 AM #1:	http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/12/lower-your-social-class-wiser-you-are-suggests-new-study Interesting, fits my experience, that those who didn't grow up with similar money troubles as me seem to be more likely to stick to their principles rather than work out a deal in which you have to compromise. I think, in part, it's due to never having a safety net. If you are well off, you stick to your guns and either it works out, and that's great, or it doesn't and that's not so bad. Those in poverty need it to work, and so have learned to intelligently compromise to ensure it. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892621750] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/12/lower-your-social-class-wiser-you-are-suggests-new-study Interesting, fits my experience, that those who didn't grow up with similar money troubles as me seem to be more likely to stick to their principles rather than work out a deal in which you have to compromise. I think, in part, it's due to never having a safety net. If you are well off, you stick to your guns and either it works out, and that's great, or it doesn't and that's not so bad. Those in poverty need it to work, and so have learned to intelligently compromise to ensure it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tremain07 12/21/17 9:28:53 AM #2:	Fake, if they were good at solving problems they wouldn't be worthless poor people who complain when the rich fuck them over and do nothing else. --- I got nothing <cite>tremain07 posted [p:892621946] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>Fake, if they were good at solving problems they wouldn't be worthless poor people who complain when the rich fuck them over and do nothing else.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Herugrim 12/21/17 9:37:51 AM #3:	When you know what it's like to bust your balls just to make ends meat, it tends to put things in perspective. The working class spends less time arguing over pointless opinions and more time trying to support their families. Middle and upper class individuals don't know what it's like to work for a living so every little speed bump becomes a mountain. You really don't need a study to tell you that the wealthy are spoiled and helpless. --- John Watson: "Well it isn't obvious to me." Sherlock Holmes: "The world is full of obvious things that nobody notices." <cite>Herugrim posted [p:892622271] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>When you know what it's like to bust your balls just to make ends meat, it tends to put things in perspective. The working class spends less time arguing over pointless opinions and more time trying to support their families. Middle and upper class individuals don't know what it's like to work for a living so every little speed bump becomes a mountain. You really don't need a study to tell you that the wealthy are spoiled and helpless.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FluttershyPony 12/21/17 9:38:17 AM #4:	You can't really expect them to do another french revolution, the odds are stacked a little harder for the normies. <cite>FluttershyPony posted [p:892622288] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>You can't really expect them to do another french revolution, the odds are stacked a little harder for the normies.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Gamer99z 12/21/17 9:44:21 AM #6:	Asherlee10 posted... This is an unexpected result for me. I would have guessed that whatever demographic that holds more higher ed degrees would be the best at conflict resolution. This. Generally I'd expect that the lower class, and by extension the statistically less educated, would be more likely to result to violence or whatever instead of resolving things healthily. --- "You need to lay off the peanut-butthurt and u-jelly sandwiches" - Neon Octopus <cite>Gamer99z posted [p:892622507] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>This is an unexpected result for me. I would have guessed that whatever demographic that holds more higher ed degrees would be the best at conflict resolution.</quote> This. Generally I'd expect that the lower class, and by extension the statistically less educated, would be more likely to result to violence or whatever instead of resolving things healthily.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Infinite 2003 12/21/17 9:53:36 AM #7:	As someone who grew up around plenty of poor people I'm gonna have to call bullshit on this one. Nothing I've ever seen in my personal life supports this --- Political Correctness is facism pretending to be manners - George Carlin <cite>Infinite 2003 posted [p:892622858] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>As someone who grew up around plenty of poor people I'm gonna have to call bullshit on this one. Nothing I've ever seen in my personal life supports this</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Romes187 12/21/17 9:58:14 AM #9:	I'd be interested to see the questions they asked but I looked through the study And couldn't really find them I did see that one question was then readying a dear Abby letter and commenting on it I don't know too much about these types of studies though. Can anyone find the questions? It said there were 21 of them <cite>Romes187 posted [p:892623041] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>I'd be interested to see the questions they asked but I looked through the study And couldn't really find them I did see that one question was then readying a dear Abby letter and commenting on it I don't know too much about these types of studies though. Can anyone find the questions? It said there were 21 of them</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Romes187 12/21/17 9:59:50 AM #11:	I did see some... things like " did you get a third person perspective" after a conflict Wouldn't that be more a function of trait agreeableness than social class? <cite>Romes187 posted [p:892623103] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>I did see some... things like " did you get a third person perspective" after a conflict Wouldn't that be more a function of trait agreeableness than social class?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 10:04:04 AM #12:	Romes187 posted... I'd be interested to see the questions they asked but I looked through the study And couldn't really find them I did see that one question was then readying a dear Abby letter and commenting on it I don't know too much about these types of studies though. Can anyone find the questions? It said there were 21 of them They are listed in the appendix here: https://osf.io/wkgvm/download?format=pdf Along with the SEM for the wise reasoning index. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892623267] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Romes187 posted...</cite> <quote>I'd be interested to see the questions they asked but I looked through the study And couldn't really find them I did see that one question was then readying a dear Abby letter and commenting on it I don't know too much about these types of studies though. Can anyone find the questions? It said there were 21 of them</quote> They are listed in the appendix here: https://osf.io/wkgvm/download?format=pdf Along with the SEM for the wise reasoning index.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gamer99z 12/21/17 10:30:29 AM #13:	Asherlee10 posted... Gamer99z posted... Asherlee10 posted... This is an unexpected result for me. I would have guessed that whatever demographic that holds more higher ed degrees would be the best at conflict resolution. This. Generally I'd expect that the lower class, and by extension the statistically less educated, would be more likely to result to violence or whatever instead of resolving things healthily. I was thinking the same thing. My personal experience is that I see lower class people result to explosive anger, verbal threats, and sometimes violence. I did not see that sort of behavior very often while I was growing up (raised by my grandparents who did well for themselves). It wasn't until I visited friends' houses that were in a lower socioeconomic strata. Yeah that's the same as my personal experiences as well, but I've also spent a pretty disproportionate amount of time around lower class people with some volunteer work I used to do at a woman's shelter and currently do with a few branches of a ministry. I'm not really sure if that helps or hurts my anecdotal experiences when trying to pan it out to a larger scale of people though, like maybe I've just been more exposed to lower class incidences. Which makes it interesting to consider what factors lead to it seeming to be the other way around. Such as lower class people potentially getting into a larger number of conflicts, having a lower percentage of conflicts handled poorly, but a higher raw number of poorly handled conflicts, with more upper class people having a lesser number of conflicts in general, but a higher percentage of them handled more poorly when they do occur, giving off the illusion in the real world that lower class people handle conflict worse. Especially if it's a higher frequency of altercations among that class on top of there generally being a significantly larger lower class than upper class as well as an ever shrinking middle class in most areas. Plus factors with the study as well like taking 2000 people with a self reported Q&A and then narrowing it down to 200 from around one specific area. It could even have to do with the upper class maybe being older age range there and the order generations not being as well at healthy conflict resolution. But I could keep going with additional variables, either way it's an interesting result. --- "You need to lay off the peanut-butthurt and u-jelly sandwiches" - Neon Octopus <cite>Gamer99z posted [p:892624351] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote> This is an unexpected result for me. I would have guessed that whatever demographic that holds more higher ed degrees would be the best at conflict resolution. </quote> This. Generally I'd expect that the lower class, and by extension the statistically less educated, would be more likely to result to violence or whatever instead of resolving things healthily.</quote> I was thinking the same thing. My personal experience is that I see lower class people result to explosive anger, verbal threats, and sometimes violence. I did not see that sort of behavior very often while I was growing up (raised by my grandparents who did well for themselves). It wasn't until I visited friends' houses that were in a lower socioeconomic strata.</quote> Yeah that's the same as my personal experiences as well, but I've also spent a pretty disproportionate amount of time around lower class people with some volunteer work I used to do at a woman's shelter and currently do with a few branches of a ministry. I'm not really sure if that helps or hurts my anecdotal experiences when trying to pan it out to a larger scale of people though, like maybe I've just been more exposed to lower class incidences. Which makes it interesting to consider what factors lead to it seeming to be the other way around. Such as lower class people potentially getting into a larger number of conflicts, having a lower percentage of conflicts handled poorly, but a higher raw number of poorly handled conflicts, with more upper class people having a lesser number of conflicts in general, but a higher percentage of them handled more poorly when they do occur, giving off the illusion in the real world that lower class people handle conflict worse. Especially if it's a higher frequency of altercations among that class on top of there generally being a significantly larger lower class than upper class as well as an ever shrinking middle class in most areas. Plus factors with the study as well like taking 2000 people with a self reported Q&A and then narrowing it down to 200 from around one specific area. It could even have to do with the upper class maybe being older age range there and the order generations not being as well at healthy conflict resolution. But I could keep going with additional variables, either way it's an interesting result.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Esrac 12/21/17 10:35:02 AM #14:	Gamer99z posted... Asherlee10 posted... This is an unexpected result for me. I would have guessed that whatever demographic that holds more higher ed degrees would be the best at conflict resolution. This. Generally I'd expect that the lower class, and by extension the statistically less educated, would be more likely to result to violence or whatever instead of resolving things healthily. That's some nice classism you two have there. --- http://steamcommunity.com/id/Esrac <cite>Esrac posted [p:892624536] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>This is an unexpected result for me. I would have guessed that whatever demographic that holds more higher ed degrees would be the best at conflict resolution.</quote> This. Generally I'd expect that the lower class, and by extension the statistically less educated, would be more likely to result to violence or whatever instead of resolving things healthily.</quote> That's some nice classism you two have there.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tremain07 12/21/17 10:43:16 AM #15:	It's reality, poor people are mostly comprised of the trash of society and the unlucky, those who can make something of themselves will at least ascend to upper middle class. If you're poor you're either lazy, stupid or just plain unlucky and there are alot of lazy and stupid people in the world. --- I got nothing <cite>tremain07 posted [p:892624890] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>It's reality, poor people are mostly comprised of the trash of society and the unlucky, those who can make something of themselves will at least ascend to upper middle class. If you're poor you're either lazy, stupid or just plain unlucky and there are alot of lazy and stupid people in the world.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Esrac 12/21/17 10:44:43 AM #16:	tremain07 posted... It's reality, poor people are mostly comprised of the trash of society and the unlucky, those who can make something of themselves will at least ascend to upper middle class. If you're poor you're either lazy, stupid or just plain unlucky and there are alot of lazy and stupid people in the world. Okay, Ebenezer. --- http://steamcommunity.com/id/Esrac <cite>Esrac posted [p:892624949] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>tremain07 posted...</cite> <quote>It's reality, poor people are mostly comprised of the trash of society and the unlucky, those who can make something of themselves will at least ascend to upper middle class. If you're poor you're either lazy, stupid or just plain unlucky and there are alot of lazy and stupid people in the world.</quote> Okay, Ebenezer.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gamer99z 12/21/17 10:45:57 AM #17:	Esrac posted... Gamer99z posted... Asherlee10 posted... This is an unexpected result for me. I would have guessed that whatever demographic that holds more higher ed degrees would be the best at conflict resolution. This. Generally I'd expect that the lower class, and by extension the statistically less educated, would be more likely to result to violence or whatever instead of resolving things healthily. That's some nice classism you two have there. Well I was raised in the lower class and have spent more a lot of time around the lower class, and I'm still not particularly too far from lower class myself so I'm surprised based on my own personal experiences, not on some pre conceived notion of what I think poor people are like. Also like I said, I wasn't really basing it on class itself but on education. My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so. --- "You need to lay off the peanut-butthurt and u-jelly sandwiches" - Neon Octopus <cite>Gamer99z posted [p:892625004] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Esrac posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote> <cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote> This is an unexpected result for me. I would have guessed that whatever demographic that holds more higher ed degrees would be the best at conflict resolution. </quote> This. Generally I'd expect that the lower class, and by extension the statistically less educated, would be more likely to result to violence or whatever instead of resolving things healthily.</quote> That's some nice classism you two have there.</quote> Well I was raised in the lower class and have spent more a lot of time around the lower class, and I'm still not particularly too far from lower class myself so I'm surprised based on my own personal experiences, not on some pre conceived notion of what I think poor people are like. Also like I said, I wasn't really basing it on class itself but on education. My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 10:47:34 AM #18:	tremain07 posted... It's reality, poor people are mostly comprised of the trash of society and the unlucky I mean, not really. In any society in which the probability of obtaining wealth is proportional to the current wealth, there will be large scale systematic inequalities that perpetuate due to chance alone. Saying that it's simply the unlucky not only makes it seem like a small population, and that the rest are just trash, but also downplays the systemic issues at hand. EDIT: oh, you are the poster that was clearly joking at the beginning. Forget that I took your statement seriously. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892625072] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>tremain07 posted...</cite> <quote>It's reality, poor people are mostly comprised of the trash of society and the unlucky</quote> I mean, not really. In any society in which the probability of obtaining wealth is proportional to the current wealth, there will be large scale systematic inequalities that perpetuate due to chance alone. Saying that it's simply the unlucky not only makes it seem like a small population, and that the rest are just trash, but also downplays the systemic issues at hand. EDIT: oh, you are the poster that was clearly joking at the beginning. Forget that I took your statement seriously.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tremain07 12/21/17 10:50:39 AM #19:	): at least humor me. I want to feel important for once, Addy won't talk to me anymore and only sees me as a pillow to lay on --- I got nothing <cite>tremain07 posted [p:892625230] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>): at least humor me. I want to feel important for once, Addy won't talk to me anymore and only sees me as a pillow to lay on</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/21/17 10:50:50 AM #20:	I think the old adage right makes might could apply here. People who are successful usually got that way because they typically make better decisions in life. Their experience tells them that they are better at making decisions and that their opinions are more valid than someone who has not experience their level of success. Also, it depends upon the topic. For example, if someone argues with me about something that is my area of expertise, they should be willing to strongly defend their position. If they start an argument with me on something that is their area or expertise, I am going to listen closely before sharing. <cite>C7D posted [p:892625238] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>I think the old adage right makes might could apply here. People who are successful usually got that way because they typically make better decisions in life. Their experience tells them that they are better at making decisions and that their opinions are more valid than someone who has not experience their level of success. Also, it depends upon the topic. For example, if someone argues with me about something that is my area of expertise, they should be willing to strongly defend their position. If they start an argument with me on something that is their area or expertise, I am going to listen closely before sharing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 10:51:58 AM #21:	Gamer99z posted... My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so. I mean, it's clear that highly educated people also tend to be highly principled, which is counterproductive when it comes to conflict resolution. Being able to squash your principles and personal belief system for the sake of reaching a solution seems to be key here in this measurement of "wise reasoning". --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892625289] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote>My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so.</quote> I mean, it's clear that highly educated people also tend to be highly principled, which is counterproductive when it comes to conflict resolution. Being able to squash your principles and personal belief system for the sake of reaching a solution seems to be key here in this measurement of "wise reasoning".</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gamer99z 12/21/17 11:01:10 AM #22:	COVxy posted... Gamer99z posted... My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so. I mean, it's clear that highly educated people also tend to be highly principled, which is counterproductive when it comes to conflict resolution. Being able to squash your principles and personal belief system for the sake of reaching a solution seems to be key here in this measurement of "wise reasoning". While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged. --- "You need to lay off the peanut-butthurt and u-jelly sandwiches" - Neon Octopus <cite>Gamer99z posted [p:892625736] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote> My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so.</quote> I mean, it's clear that highly educated people also tend to be highly principled, which is counterproductive when it comes to conflict resolution. Being able to squash your principles and personal belief system for the sake of reaching a solution seems to be key here in this measurement of "wise reasoning".</quote> While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romes187 12/21/17 11:05:20 AM #23:	Gamer99z posted... COVxy posted... Gamer99z posted... My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so. I mean, it's clear that highly educated people also tend to be highly principled, which is counterproductive when it comes to conflict resolution. Being able to squash your principles and personal belief system for the sake of reaching a solution seems to be key here in this measurement of "wise reasoning". While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged. The smarter you are, the better you can argue your point, rightly or wrongly. Imagine being an academic that has done research on a particular thesis or idea for decades and made your entire career out of it, and someone comes along to demolish that You think they're just gonna go "oh...well guess I was wrong"? Maybe some, sure. But pride has no intellectual bias <cite>Romes187 posted [p:892625934] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote> My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so.</quote> I mean, it's clear that highly educated people also tend to be highly principled, which is counterproductive when it comes to conflict resolution. Being able to squash your principles and personal belief system for the sake of reaching a solution seems to be key here in this measurement of "wise reasoning".</quote> While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged.</quote> The smarter you are, the better you can argue your point, rightly or wrongly. Imagine being an academic that has done research on a particular thesis or idea for decades and made your entire career out of it, and someone comes along to demolish that You think they're just gonna go "oh...well guess I was wrong"? Maybe some, sure. But pride has no intellectual bias</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 12/21/17 11:06:20 AM #24:	tag --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:892625980] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>tag</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/21/17 11:06:33 AM #25:	Gamer99z posted... COVxy posted... Gamer99z posted... My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so. I mean, it's clear that highly educated people also tend to be highly principled, which is counterproductive when it comes to conflict resolution. Being able to squash your principles and personal belief system for the sake of reaching a solution seems to be key here in this measurement of "wise reasoning". While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged. This is a certain level of arrogance that comes with the additional education. I know I had that problem for a while after I got my PhD. I had difficulty with interpersonal relationships for a while. I eventually learned that people dont like condescension. It has worked better for me in my work place and my personal relationships. As it turns out, nobody likes a jerk who doesnt listen to the opinion of others. <cite>C7D posted [p:892625991] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote> My personal experiences, as well as just my logical assumption, is that the more well educated a group of people are, the more likely they are to handle things more logically and have the proper skill set to do so.</quote> I mean, it's clear that highly educated people also tend to be highly principled, which is counterproductive when it comes to conflict resolution. Being able to squash your principles and personal belief system for the sake of reaching a solution seems to be key here in this measurement of "wise reasoning".</quote> While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged.</quote> This is a certain level of arrogance that comes with the additional education. I know I had that problem for a while after I got my PhD. I had difficulty with interpersonal relationships for a while. I eventually learned that people dont like condescension. It has worked better for me in my work place and my personal relationships. As it turns out, nobody likes a jerk who doesnt listen to the opinion of others.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romes187 12/21/17 11:09:13 AM #26:	And cognitive dissonance is always strong I am a smart person I was wrong about this Nah, better find some justifications instead The smarter you think you are (i.e. having a PhD next to your name, or whatever) the harder this hits. <cite>Romes187 posted [p:892626116] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>And cognitive dissonance is always strong I am a smart person I was wrong about this Nah, better find some justifications instead The smarter you think you are (i.e. having a PhD next to your name, or whatever) the harder this hits.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lilORANG 12/21/17 11:10:13 AM #27:	prolly cause they can't afford lawyers so they gotta take matters into their own hands. --- #FeelTheBern http://i.imgur.com/q5z4CUu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6B9oFXh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sy42Dlf.jpg <cite>lilORANG posted [p:892626160] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>prolly cause they can't afford lawyers so they gotta take matters into their own hands.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 11:18:20 AM #28:	Gamer99z posted... While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged. What most people are taught through formal education is "fight for what's right, what's correct." Not "compromise even if the compromise makes it worse/more wrong". --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892626571] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote>While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged.</quote> What most people are taught through formal education is "fight for what's right, what's correct." Not "compromise even if the compromise makes it worse/more wrong".</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C7D 12/21/17 11:22:46 AM #29:	COVxy posted... Gamer99z posted... While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged. What most people are taught through formal education is "fight for what's right, what's correct." Not "compromise even if the compromise makes it worse/more wrong". Exactly! Thats kind of similar to my post 20. Education teaches us that being right is more important than being friendly. If you cannot stand on your principles, then you have a problem in my mind. <cite>C7D posted [p:892626777] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote>While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged.</quote> What most people are taught through formal education is "fight for what's right, what's correct." Not "compromise even if the compromise makes it worse/more wrong".</quote> Exactly! Thats kind of similar to my post 20. Education teaches us that being right is more important than being friendly. If you cannot stand on your principles, then you have a problem in my mind.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 12/21/17 11:27:34 AM #30:	C7D posted... COVxy posted... Gamer99z posted... While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged. What most people are taught through formal education is "fight for what's right, what's correct." Not "compromise even if the compromise makes it worse/more wrong". Exactly! Thats kind of similar to my post 20. Education teaches us that being right is more important than being friendly. If you cannot stand on your principles, then you have a problem in my mind. it is important to recognize, though, that compromise isn't always a good thing --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:892627005] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote>While that's true, you would also assume that through the process of gaining that education you would've gained more tools for critical thinking, problem solving, and delt with having your ideas and opinions challenged.</quote> What most people are taught through formal education is "fight for what's right, what's correct." Not "compromise even if the compromise makes it worse/more wrong".</quote> Exactly! Thats kind of similar to my post 20. Education teaches us that being right is more important than being friendly. If you cannot stand on your principles, then you have a problem in my mind.</quote> it is important to recognize, though, that compromise isn't always a good thing</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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COVxy 12/21/17 11:39:33 AM #32:	averagejoel posted... it is important to recognize, though, that compromise isn't always a good thing Practically, compromise is usually the way progress happens. Taking principled stands is usually the losing strategy, unless you hold an extremely disproportionate amount of power. There are select cases where you can say that compromise doesn't make sense, like a little genocide isn't a reasonable compromise between genocide and no genocide, but these cases are almost all artificial. For the most part, we could all learn to squash our principles a little more often, when it comes to practically navigating the world. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892627618] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>averagejoel posted...</cite> <quote>it is important to recognize, though, that compromise isn't always a good thing</quote> Practically, compromise is usually the way progress happens. Taking principled stands is usually the losing strategy, unless you hold an extremely disproportionate amount of power. There are select cases where you can say that compromise doesn't make sense, like a little genocide isn't a reasonable compromise between genocide and no genocide, but these cases are almost all artificial. For the most part, we could all learn to squash our principles a little more often, when it comes to practically navigating the world.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gamer99z 12/21/17 11:50:32 AM #33:	Romes187 posted... The smarter you are, the better you can argue your point, rightly or wrongly. Imagine being an academic that has done research on a particular thesis or idea for decades and made your entire career out of it, and someone comes along to demolish that You think they're just gonna go "oh...well guess I was wrong"? Maybe some, sure. But pride has no intellectual bias C7D posted... This is a certain level of arrogance that comes with the additional education. I know I had that problem for a while after I got my PhD. I had difficulty with interpersonal relationships for a while. I eventually learned that people dont like condescension. It has worked better for me in my work place and my personal relationships. As it turns out, nobody likes a jerk who doesnt listen to the opinion of others. COVxy posted... What most people are taught through formal education is "fight for what's right, what's correct." Not "compromise even if the compromise makes it worse/more wrong". I'm not talking about people thinking that about themselves, I'm talking about how generally I'd assume you actually did in fact learn those skills while gaining your education. Even back in grade school I was being taught critical thinking, problem solving skills, working with others, having my own ideas challenged by others, needing to be able to logically express my point and discuss it with others, etc. I was never taught to think I was educated and therefore always right, actually the exact opposite. Romes also brings up a good point which makes me wonder how many of these conflicts being handled poorly are work related, domestic, with social peers, etc. Because yeah if you're got a master's or PhD in engineering and you get some random asshole trying to tell you how to do your job you're going to her pissed and not really treat them like they know what they're talking about, but if it's a legitimate peer of yours or isn't even a work related thing at all then your subject of education doesn't really matter as much in the situation --- "You need to lay off the peanut-butthurt and u-jelly sandwiches" - Neon Octopus <cite>Gamer99z posted [p:892628207] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Romes187 posted...</cite> <quote>The smarter you are, the better you can argue your point, rightly or wrongly. Imagine being an academic that has done research on a particular thesis or idea for decades and made your entire career out of it, and someone comes along to demolish that You think they're just gonna go "oh...well guess I was wrong"? Maybe some, sure. But pride has no intellectual bias</quote> <cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>This is a certain level of arrogance that comes with the additional education. I know I had that problem for a while after I got my PhD. I had difficulty with interpersonal relationships for a while. I eventually learned that people dont like condescension. It has worked better for me in my work place and my personal relationships. As it turns out, nobody likes a jerk who doesnt listen to the opinion of others.</quote> <cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>What most people are taught through formal education is "fight for what's right, what's correct." Not "compromise even if the compromise makes it worse/more wrong".</quote> I'm not talking about people thinking that about themselves, I'm talking about how generally I'd assume you actually did in fact learn those skills while gaining your education. Even back in grade school I was being taught critical thinking, problem solving skills, working with others, having my own ideas challenged by others, needing to be able to logically express my point and discuss it with others, etc. I was never taught to think I was educated and therefore always right, actually the exact opposite. Romes also brings up a good point which makes me wonder how many of these conflicts being handled poorly are work related, domestic, with social peers, etc. Because yeah if you're got a master's or PhD in engineering and you get some random asshole trying to tell you how to do your job you're going to her pissed and not really treat them like they know what they're talking about, but if it's a legitimate peer of yours or isn't even a work related thing at all then your subject of education doesn't really matter as much in the situation</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 11:56:37 AM #34:	Gamer99z posted... Even back in grade school I was being taught critical thinking, problem solving skills, working with others, having my own ideas challenged by others, needing to be able to logically express my point and discuss it with others, etc. I was never taught to think I was educated and therefore always right, actually the exact opposite. That's the entire point. It's not about logical or not, it's about saying "I'm right, but we need to get x done so I'm gonna concede the point and allow our compromise to be a bit more wrong." In other words, it's not about discussing and finding the most correct answer, as agreed upon by all parties. It's about finding a solution that suffices. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892628516] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote>Even back in grade school I was being taught critical thinking, problem solving skills, working with others, having my own ideas challenged by others, needing to be able to logically express my point and discuss it with others, etc. I was never taught to think I was educated and therefore always right, actually the exact opposite.</quote> That's the entire point. It's not about logical or not, it's about saying "I'm right, but we need to get x done so I'm gonna concede the point and allow our compromise to be a bit more wrong." In other words, it's not about discussing and finding the most correct answer, as agreed upon by all parties. It's about finding a solution that suffices.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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C7D 12/21/17 12:00:50 PM #37:	In my job, when a poor design is used, something either catches fire or a toxic chemical is spread to the public. Im a jerk to anyone and everyone who doesnt have a really good reason why they are arguing with my design because I dont want people being hurt. <cite>C7D posted [p:892628773] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>In my job, when a poor design is used, something either catches fire or a toxic chemical is spread to the public. Im a jerk to anyone and everyone who doesnt have a really good reason why they are arguing with my design because I dont want people being hurt.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 12:04:11 PM #38:	C7D posted... In my job, when a poor design is used, something either catches fire or a toxic chemical is spread to the public. Im a jerk to anyone and everyone who doesnt have a really good reason why they are arguing with my design because I dont want people being hurt. Very different context though. I won't compromise in my principles for my science, either. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892628926] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>C7D posted...</cite> <quote>In my job, when a poor design is used, something either catches fire or a toxic chemical is spread to the public. Im a jerk to anyone and everyone who doesnt have a really good reason why they are arguing with my design because I dont want people being hurt.</quote> Very different context though. I won't compromise in my principles for my science, either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gamer99z 12/21/17 12:06:08 PM #39:	COVxy posted... Gamer99z posted... Even back in grade school I was being taught critical thinking, problem solving skills, working with others, having my own ideas challenged by others, needing to be able to logically express my point and discuss it with others, etc. I was never taught to think I was educated and therefore always right, actually the exact opposite. That's the entire point. It's not about logical or not, it's about saying "I'm right, but we need to get x done so I'm gonna concede the point and allow our compromise to be a bit more wrong." That's not what I mean, I mean actually being taught to work as a group, think critically, and play off each other's strengths and weaknesses. Not just passive aggressively giving up on what you think because you just want to get it over with, but because you actually worked together have a mutual understanding of what's best and compromise is something to be done when necessary. Every educator I've had has put it work to train away from the behavior you're describing. That you're not always going to be right and that you need to be open to and able to have a discussion, challenge yourself, and see things differently. And that's just grade school, when you're dealing with higher education it becomes an even bigger point for you to be willing to challenge your own thoughts and ideas and be able to defend your views while also being open to new ones. Ideally that's something that should be happening as part of your process of getting educated. --- "You need to lay off the peanut-butthurt and u-jelly sandwiches" - Neon Octopus <cite>Gamer99z posted [p:892629027] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote> Even back in grade school I was being taught critical thinking, problem solving skills, working with others, having my own ideas challenged by others, needing to be able to logically express my point and discuss it with others, etc. I was never taught to think I was educated and therefore always right, actually the exact opposite.</quote> That's the entire point. It's not about logical or not, it's about saying "I'm right, but we need to get x done so I'm gonna concede the point and allow our compromise to be a bit more wrong."</quote> That's not what I mean, I mean actually being taught to work as a group, think critically, and play off each other's strengths and weaknesses. Not just passive aggressively giving up on what you think because you just want to get it over with, but because you actually worked together have a mutual understanding of what's best and compromise is something to be done when necessary. Every educator I've had has put it work to train away from the behavior you're describing. That you're not always going to be right and that you need to be open to and able to have a discussion, challenge yourself, and see things differently. And that's just grade school, when you're dealing with higher education it becomes an even bigger point for you to be willing to challenge your own thoughts and ideas and be able to defend your views while also being open to new ones. Ideally that's something that should be happening as part of your process of getting educated.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 12:15:19 PM #40:	Gamer99z posted... because you actually worked together have a mutual understanding of what's best This is where conflict comes, because not only is the same neutral situation viewed fundamentally different by people with different irreconcilable premises, but realistically, different people have different vested interests. Realistically, there is no common mutual understanding of what's really best. But those from a higher education have been taught to argue their point until the other side understands, which is exactly what we mean by poorer conflict resolution. Realistically, when multiple actors are involved, putting aside principles, morals, and thinking pragmatically about what will work for everyone, is the best strategy to avoid conflict and continue progress. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892629457] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Gamer99z posted...</cite> <quote>because you actually worked together have a mutual understanding of what's best</quote> This is where conflict comes, because not only is the same neutral situation viewed fundamentally different by people with different irreconcilable premises, but realistically, different people have different vested interests. Realistically, there is no common mutual understanding of what's really best. But those from a higher education have been taught to argue their point until the other side understands, which is exactly what we mean by poorer conflict resolution. Realistically, when multiple actors are involved, putting aside principles, morals, and thinking pragmatically about what will work for everyone, is the best strategy to avoid conflict and continue progress.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 12:25:27 PM #41:	It might help to read a few paragraphs of the introduction to understand the point: How do people of different social class vary in their reasoning style? For at least a century, this question has been at the core of scholarship on mental abilities [1,2]. Some research has suggested that people of higher social class exhibit a superior style of reasoning, with white-collars performing better on tasks measuring fluid and crystallized intelligence compared with blue-collars [2,3]. A dominant explanation for this observation has involved differences in ecological affordances, with lower-class environments defined by fewer resources, greater threat, and more uncertainty [49]all factors that inhibit performance on abstract intelligence testssuggesting that lower-class environments promote inferior reasoning. Here, we advance an alternative account, with a focus on wisdom-related pragmatic reasoning [10,11] rather than abstract reasoning such as propositional logic [12]. Central aspects of this reasoning style include intellectual humility, recognition that the world is in flux and changes, and the ability to take different contexts into account besides one's ownfactors philosophers have long associated with handling situations wisely [1316]. To address the question of class differences in wise reasoning, we use a multi-method approach, including a recently validated, psychometrically robust method for assessing wise reasoning style when reflecting on interpersonal experiences people encounter in their lives [17], and observer-rated judgements of performance on stream-of-thought reports on standardized interpersonal situations [14]. Contrary to findings concerning differences on standardized IQ tests, the present research indicates systematic regional, individual-difference and situational effects of wiser reasoning style in lower- versus higher-class contexts. The current insights qualify the complex relationship between socio-cultural environments and interpersonal reasoning style. The concept of wise reasoning has recently emerged in behavioural sciences [13,14,18], highlighting the combined utility of certain metacognitive strategies when navigating uncertainties people face in their lives [15]. Such strategies include the appreciation of contexts broader than the immediate issue, sensitivity to the possibility of change in social relations, intellectual humility and search for a compromise between different points of view [14,19,20]. Individual differences in wise reasoning are only weakly related to dispositional empathy and perspective-taking [17], and promote prosocial tendencies in the process of deliberation [17,18,21]. Even though abstract cognition assessed with domain-general intelligence tests may provide higher-class individuals with a stronger foundation for wise reasoning than their lower-class counterparts, domain-general IQ tests are not equivalent with wise reasoning [11,15,22], raising a question about whether social class differences in wise reasoning would mirror results from standardized IQ tests. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892629938] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>It might help to read a few paragraphs of the introduction to understand the point: <quote>How do people of different social class vary in their reasoning style? For at least a century, this question has been at the core of scholarship on mental abilities [1,2]. Some research has suggested that people of higher social class exhibit a superior style of reasoning, with white-collars performing better on tasks measuring fluid and crystallized intelligence compared with blue-collars [2,3]. A dominant explanation for this observation has involved differences in ecological affordances, with lower-class environments defined by fewer resources, greater threat, and more uncertainty [49]all factors that inhibit performance on abstract intelligence testssuggesting that lower-class environments promote inferior reasoning. Here, we advance an alternative account, with a focus on wisdom-related pragmatic reasoning [10,11] rather than abstract reasoning such as propositional logic [12]. Central aspects of this reasoning style include intellectual humility, recognition that the world is in flux and changes, and the ability to take different contexts into account besides one's ownfactors philosophers have long associated with handling situations wisely [1316]. To address the question of class differences in wise reasoning, we use a multi-method approach, including a recently validated, psychometrically robust method for assessing wise reasoning style when reflecting on interpersonal experiences people encounter in their lives [17], and observer-rated judgements of performance on stream-of-thought reports on standardized interpersonal situations [14]. Contrary to findings concerning differences on standardized IQ tests, the present research indicates systematic regional, individual-difference and situational effects of wiser reasoning style in lower- versus higher-class contexts. The current insights qualify the complex relationship between socio-cultural environments and interpersonal reasoning style. The concept of wise reasoning has recently emerged in behavioural sciences [13,14,18], highlighting the combined utility of certain metacognitive strategies when navigating uncertainties people face in their lives [15]. Such strategies include the appreciation of contexts broader than the immediate issue, sensitivity to the possibility of change in social relations, intellectual humility and search for a compromise between different points of view [14,19,20]. Individual differences in wise reasoning are only weakly related to dispositional empathy and perspective-taking [17], and promote prosocial tendencies in the process of deliberation [17,18,21]. Even though abstract cognition assessed with domain-general intelligence tests may provide higher-class individuals with a stronger foundation for wise reasoning than their lower-class counterparts, domain-general IQ tests are not equivalent with wise reasoning [11,15,22], raising a question about whether social class differences in wise reasoning would mirror results from standardized IQ tests.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 1:17:52 PM #42:	Up. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892632619] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote>Up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MrPeppers 12/21/17 1:20:04 PM #43:	Herugrim posted... When you know what it's like to bust your balls just to make ends meat, it tends to put things in perspective. The working class spends less time arguing over pointless opinions and more time trying to support their families. Middle and upper class individuals don't know what it's like to work for a living so every little speed bump becomes a mountain. You really don't need a study to tell you that the wealthy are spoiled and helpless. Middle and upper class dont know what its like to work for a living? Lol youre so fucking clueless. --- http://i.imgur.com/SGkkbF0.png <cite>MrPeppers posted [p:892632729] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>Herugrim posted...</cite> <quote>When you know what it's like to bust your balls just to make ends meat, it tends to put things in perspective. The working class spends less time arguing over pointless opinions and more time trying to support their families. Middle and upper class individuals don't know what it's like to work for a living so every little speed bump becomes a mountain. You really don't need a study to tell you that the wealthy are spoiled and helpless.</quote> Middle and upper class dont know what its like to work for a living? Lol youre so fucking clueless.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 12/21/17 1:22:43 PM #44:	COVxy posted... averagejoel posted... it is important to recognize, though, that compromise isn't always a good thing Practically, compromise is usually the way progress happens. Taking principled stands is usually the losing strategy, unless you hold an extremely disproportionate amount of power. There are select cases where you can say that compromise doesn't make sense, like a little genocide isn't a reasonable compromise between genocide and no genocide, but these cases are almost all artificial. For the most part, we could all learn to squash our principles a little more often, when it comes to practically navigating the world. there are many scenarios where one side is clearly and obviously in the wrong, and compromise in such scenarios hinders progress. for instance, healthcare. the two sides are "everyone should have access to healthcare" and "no, only the rich should have access to healthcare" there is one clear reasonable answer, and one clear unreasonable one. every possible compromise is just varying degrees of unreasonable --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:892632874] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>averagejoel posted...</cite> <quote>it is important to recognize, though, that compromise isn't always a good thing</quote> Practically, compromise is usually the way progress happens. Taking principled stands is usually the losing strategy, unless you hold an extremely disproportionate amount of power. There are select cases where you can say that compromise doesn't make sense, like a little genocide isn't a reasonable compromise between genocide and no genocide, but these cases are almost all artificial. For the most part, we could all learn to squash our principles a little more often, when it comes to practically navigating the world.</quote> there are many scenarios where one side is clearly and obviously in the wrong, and compromise in such scenarios hinders progress. for instance, healthcare. the two sides are "everyone should have access to healthcare" and "no, only the rich should have access to healthcare" there is one clear reasonable answer, and one clear unreasonable one. every possible compromise is just varying degrees of unreasonable</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 12/21/17 1:24:30 PM #45:	MrPeppers posted... Herugrim posted... When you know what it's like to bust your balls just to make ends meat, it tends to put things in perspective. The working class spends less time arguing over pointless opinions and more time trying to support their families. Middle and upper class individuals don't know what it's like to work for a living so every little speed bump becomes a mountain. You really don't need a study to tell you that the wealthy are spoiled and helpless. Middle and upper class dont know what its like to work for a living? Lol youre so fucking clueless. "upper class" is the class that doesn't have to work for a living. many of them literally don't know --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:892632973] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>MrPeppers posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Herugrim posted...</cite> <quote>When you know what it's like to bust your balls just to make ends meat, it tends to put things in perspective. The working class spends less time arguing over pointless opinions and more time trying to support their families. Middle and upper class individuals don't know what it's like to work for a living so every little speed bump becomes a mountain. You really don't need a study to tell you that the wealthy are spoiled and helpless.</quote> Middle and upper class dont know what its like to work for a living? Lol youre so fucking clueless.</quote> "upper class" is the class that doesn't have to work for a living. many of them literally don't know</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 12/21/17 1:31:20 PM #46:	averagejoel posted... for instance, healthcare. the two sides are "everyone should have access to healthcare" and "no, only the rich should have access to healthcare" I mean, you aren't accurately portraying both sides of the argument because the vested interests are different. You are never going to reach a compromise due to it, and all you're going to do is raise conflict until someone has won. I'd rather have Obamacare still functioning than nothing at all, which is about where we stand now. Saying that compromise hinders progress because the progress isn't fast enough or pure enough for you is irrational. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:892633382] in Lower clas... [t:76122240]...</cite> <quote><cite>averagejoel posted...</cite> <quote>for instance, healthcare. the two sides are "everyone should have access to healthcare" and "no, only the rich should have access to healthcare" </quote> I mean, you aren't accurately portraying both sides of the argument because the vested interests are different. You are never going to reach a compromise due to it, and all you're going to do is raise conflict until someone has won. I'd rather have Obamacare still functioning than nothing at all, which is about where we stand now. Saying that compromise hinders progress because the progress isn't fast enough or pure enough for you is irrational.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Lower class individuals tend to be better at confict resolution. (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Lower class individuals tend to be better at confict resolution.