Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 2: The Continuation (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

You know the drill. Mark DGS spoilers. Be wary if there are other games in the series you haven't beaten yet.
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Loosely defined final confrontation rankings who wants some!

Bottom of Bottom

40. 4-4 - Kristoph's second demise

Literally putting away a dude who was already in prison, without evidence, with a single stupid perceive, with Klavier being a pointless character... it's bad. Real bad. Even his final breakdown isn't as good as the 4-1 version.

39. 1-2 - Read the back of the receipt

Points for the dirtiest Edgeworth timeline, negative points for basically everything else here. Redd White just collapsing is immensely dissatisfying. "She dodged to the left" was a nice bit of testimony but otherwise bleh.

38. 5-1 - Ted Tonate

A long, drawn out battle with an unmemorable villain in an unmemorable case. My favorite part of this is Phoenix outlasting Tonate's bluff, but my god it lasts forever and it's a bad case, and Tonate's on the stand for a long time.

Underwhelming for a Final Confrontation?

37. 2-1 - Wellington strangles himself

This is pretty much all of 2-1, but here's another not-great-case with a not-great ending.

36. 6-4 - The murder weapon was Udon Dough

Geiru is an unfortunately unmemorable killer who goes down surprisingly quickly after four testimonies from Uendo, but her transformation is kinda neat, and the murder weapon thing is surprisingly clever.

35. 4-2 - Alita Talia
34. E1-2 - Cammy Mille
33. E1-1 - Portsman swallows the medal

Not a ton about these, but Portsman flashing us is hilarious, Cammy is inoffensive in a weirdly rhythmic case, and Alita is almost suitably fluffy as a killer in a fluffy case, but less 'out-there' than guys like Stickler, who I'd say was the real attraction in that case.
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Flawed/Just Missing Something

32. 6-6 - Nichody has no chance

This one's kind of notably low because Pierce's '...' testimony is really interesting and his transformation is neat. But he's incredibly easy to crack due to Phoenix and Edgeworth ganging up on him. It actually feels unfair, which is a shame. He could've made a nice villain for Athena to test her skills on, but instead they made him a squash match victim.

31. E1-5 - The marathon

So yeah, there's some stuff to like here - Alba's transformation is hilarious - but as we all know, extending the case by two hours after the final bit of interesting info is gathered, and after the emotional climax, is bad news.

30. 6-1 - Metal Jesus

This is kind of a bad case with a final witness that lasts too long and a stupid gimmick puzzle, but my god he made me laugh. Gaspen Payne singing along to the rhythm is incredibly memorable.

29. 6-2 - The perfect crime

The problem with "perfect crimes" is that they wind up being somewhat less satisfying convictions. For the effort that Retinz puts into his flawless magic trick to kill the erstwhile Mr. Reus, he goes down disappointingly, and his final breakdown animation is bizarrely long and lame. Shame, because I love his transformation and the twist about his identity.

28. 5-3 - Pointing the Finger

Means as the creepy thing cracked me up but it was jarring with how seriously they took this "Dark Age of the Law" business. The finger-pointing sequence makes it take a little too long, alas, but it's otherwise pretty fun.

27. E1-3 - Crybaby bites back

A neat use of Little Thief, plus Lance being... well, kind of surprisingly resilient as an opponent, really sell this goofy ending to a goofy case.
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Solid Showdowns

26. 1-1 - Toupee Toss

Frank Sahwit is such an iconic AA villain. This showdown hits all the beats - music, transformation, breakdown, turning your thinking around, and a devastatingly fun one-liner pun to finish things off.

25. 5-2 - Perfume for all

L'Belle isn't the greatest villain, unfortunately. The real climax of 5-2 is the end of Day 1, where Apollo badly shuts down Blackquill. He's still amusing to beat up on, and I enjoyed the secrets of Tenma Taro and the especially the Amazing Nine-Tails.

24. 5-4 - Blast-off

Yuri annoyed me, but the solution behind the moving outer platform is pretty fucking cool, and his spinning/blasting off damage animation is hilarious. The cliffhanger resolution - not just Athena being accused of murder, but the trial in general ending without a new suspect named - is incredibly unique, and bolsters this.

23. 4-3 - Cocoons?

A really bad case has a surprisingly fun finale. Daryan is one vicious, amoral dude, making him a tremendous opponent to work on. The exact nature of smuggling is pretty interesting here. It's a bit unfortunate that Klavier buries him so quickly, but Apollo desperately needs his help to face an enemy this unflappable at this point. That said, it loses points for being stuck in a garbage case and depending on Machi Tobaye, maybe the worst defendant in the series, to close it out.

22. 3-2 - The real Unmasque-ing

I alluded to this in the 6-2 description, but 3-2 is a near-perfect crime. As a result, you spend most of your time poking holes in Atmey's coverup, but none in proving he did it. Not a big fan of the Mia involvement. Big fan of Godot chugging his coffee and the incredible cross-examination music. And that final nine-piece testimony is pretty clever.

21. 3-1 - MIA FEY MIA FEY MIA FEY

Phoenix's getting off is a foregone conclusion, but attorney Mia is a treat, and watching her pitbull aggression on Dahlia - whom we find out she has great reason to despise - is awesome. It brings an epic quality to a case where we don't expect those stakes.
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Near-Epic

20. E2-4 - Debeste way to take someone down

Blaise is a pushover who kind of sucks at the evidence game, which means this confrontation doesn't need to be as long as it is. It has this dimorphism to it where the testimony is actually kind of trivial (and Courtney's face-turn lacks a punch to it) - but Edgeworth himself is the star here, sticking up for Kay. Neat trick about the scar being on Blaise's face, though I feel that was a little too strongly hinted.

19. E2-2 - Gator warden

After such an exhausting case, it feels really satisfying to have this showdown with the warden. She makes you prove it with evidence, and due to the great format of the game, you're forced to produce it in a great manner. There's something I just really like about how neatly everything finally ties together in this case once all the chips are down and you're just standing there, despite its having many lows along the way.

18. 2-2 - Scars that burn

Ini/Mimi's secret is a pretty OG plot twist, and her beret-spinning animation post-transformation is great.

17. 2-3 - Max's bust is...

The non-canon game over here is pretty hilarious. The first time through, I didn't appreciate Acro's unflappability. But he's a really solid opponent who has no give, and his quiet shock is fun to contend against. Actually finding the murder weapon is pretty damn awesome.

16. 5-5 - The Phantom

Most of the fight against the Phantom isn't bad. The Mood Matrix is a great part of it for sure, and there's some novelty fun with masks (at first, at least). The problem, of course, is that the best part of the case is the part Edgeworth prosecutes. The ending here is overdrawn and surprisingly light on emotional stakes in a case that earlier touches some of the darkest territory in an AA game.

15. 6-3 - The true cause of death

Channeling Tahrust is an awesome final act, and it's fascinating the way he fights against you until you realize his true intent. It's nearly inexplicable until you finally put it together. It's exhausting - but satisfyingly so. And this isn't a knock on the case, but it's a little unfortunate that this awesome Day 2 finale is somehow not the strongest emotional moment of the case - that, I'd say, is Phoenix losing on Day 1.
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Excellent

14. 2-4 - Toying with the Radio

I love 2-4 and I love 2-4's ending. De Killer is a wonderful witness with some hilarious dark humor - the Judge being convinced that Phoenix wants him dead is one of the most memorable Judge moments of the series. Edgeworth is in top form. But the actual testimony winds up feeling a bit punchless in the end, solely a stall for Franziska and Gumshoe to deliver the final evidence. That part, of course, is wonderfully satisfying, making it all worth it. It's just that the interrogation and the climax don't feel like they feed one another.

13. 6-5 - Changing a nation

Like so many other cases clustered around here, the final moments with Nahyuta on the stand, taking down Ga'ran, are not the best of the case. They're fun, but after such a marathon and an incredible witness in Amara, it feels rather strange to circle back to take down the Big Bad of the series. That said - great opponent, great stakes, and awesome (if predictable and weirdly delayed in reveal) dagger in Ga'ran's inability to perform magic.

12. 3-5 - Godot's penance

I didn't like 3-5's final act the first time around - it feels like Phoenix using his ego to push Maya into convicting a good guy. but when viewed it through the lens of Godot seeking justice for what he's done and trying to deal with his self-loathing, it becomes far more emotional. Only letdown is using Maya as essentially a pawn here. Also, mandatory AA3 testimony music mention, along with Godot's theme, his bloody tears, and AA1's Cornered music.

11. 4-1 - Lobster dinner rises from the sea/stand

The stakes and scope are small in this case, but accusing Kristoph is fantastic, complete with Phoenix's old Objection! theme. The mere fact that Phoenix takes up the assistant role here boosts it, and the dirty Bloody Ace trick, along with Kristoph's non-confession... fantastic stuff for an intro case.

10. 1-5 - Thunderstruck

Gant's pretty satisfying to break down, and this feels like a case that actually merits the attorney-prosecutor-pile-on. I say F that to the Blue Badger stuff and the overwhelming length and Evidence Law, but after three days of AA2/3-length investigation, this is a great reward. The past case is pretty interesting, too, though it's undermined by being such a carbon copy of DL-6.

9. E2-3 Finishing the candyman

The thing about AAI games is the way that you flow into the culprit at the end, and you know it's the end, and then (... usually) they don't drag out too long. That's Gustavia, a guy who might have seemed sympathetic before - he's clumsy and has a disability! - but when he turns out to be an unrepentant bastard who can only have done it due to process of elimination... it's even better. Immensely satisfying battle with a spectacular defeat animation where he slices up the pastry version of himself.

8. 3-4 - Terry Fawles

You know it's coming, and you know you've got Dahlia, and young, undefeated Edgeworth is right on the brink of defeat... tremendous confrontation against Dahlia, and killer ending.
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There are a few little things to quibble with, like Apollo's shut down of Blackquill doesn't happen until the climax of day 2 with the revelation that Damian is the Amazing Nine-Tales. It's an A+ moment because of day 1 though. Blackquill dominates day 1 in a way no prosecutor has since 2-4 day 1. He has Apollo on the ropes almost the whole time and he just barely escapes because of his air vent theory that turned out to be 100% completely wrong.

I'll go into a few others when I'm not on a phone.
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The Greatest

7. E2-1 - Edgeworth vs Knightley

One thing I really like here is that Knightley isn't the baddest dude. He looks like kind of a pushover with his hair and that neck brace, and DeKiller certainly treats him this way. Yet when Shelley splits, you're left with only one possible murderer, and he winds up being way more impressive in cunning than he is in physical prowess. The gun-switch is one of the cooler tricks in the series. Love his animations, too.

6. 5-6 - The Dissin' of Phoenix Wright

Love everything about this one from the transformation to the epic rap cross-examination to the two-whales twist to the truth... that it wasn't murder at all.

5. 1-3 - Edgeworth face-turn

I wasn't thrilled with the Vazquez battle the first time through, since she kind of stonewalls and doesn't react very dramatically. I tend to enjoy that type of composure a bit more now, and Edgeworth turning on her is super-thrilling thanks to the music. One of the funniest takedowns on the whole.

4. E1-4 - Investigation leads to the courtroom

I love the absolute sense of climax you get here. All the suspects are eliminated and you meet in the courtroom, as if it's a regular AA game. Yew makes you prove everything, even if the evidence is fairly straightforward most of the time. Her asking for evidence is always accompanied by a totally uncalled for jab at Edgeworth's prissiness. And honestly, the music is a huge part of this one. Confrontation Presto '09 and Confess the Truth '09 are incredible. This represents basically the only really satisfying confrontation, front-to-back, of the game - other than the buried part in E1-5, of course.

3. 3-3 - Catching a Tigre

Tigre has four meaty testimonies of the old-school variety. I like this better than 3-5 and 2-4's involved testimonies, for example, because you're going right at an enemy who doesn't want to be caught. He just lies outright, and you have to break him down bit by bit and fight Godot along with it. In the end, it's a near-perfect-crime scenario, yet the bluff feels original and satisfying, since you get to bait Tigre into it instead of their just blurting out something.

2. 1-4 - Solving DL-6

I'm defining this one as starting from the moment that Edgeworth raises this objection to the Judge's verdict on the Christmas Day killing. Pretty much every moment of this sequence is iconic, from the moment Phoenix starts going over the case files to the head-banging at the end. Von Karma is still probably the greatest villain and antagonist of the series.

1. E2-5 - Mastermind

Discussed this already, but the best showdown of the series for sure. Simon actually does commit perfect crimes here, as he can't be directly convicted for getting Knightley killed, or pointing the laser gun, and the like. And he's so much fun as an opponent, too.
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Leonhart4 posted...

There are a few little things to quibble with, like Apollo's shut down of Blackquill doesn't happen until the climax of day 2 with the revelation that Damian is the Amazing Nine-Tales. It's an A+ moment because of day 1 though. Blackquill dominates day 1 in a way no prosecutor has since 2-4 day 1. He has Apollo on the ropes almost the whole time and he just barely escapes because of his air vent theory that turned out to be 100% completely wrong.

I'll go into a few others when I'm not on a phone.

maybe i should get on that AA4+ replay then! i think i confuse it for day 1 because 1. as you point out, day 1 is blackquill's day in a way day 2 isn't, and 2. there's so much blackquill in the game, and my lasting memory is that he got his ass kicked very early on in it. end of 5-2 is actually still very early relative to blackquill appearances, even if it's not early in 5-2 itself.
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Good list! I don't agree with everything, but I agree with a lot and I liked reading the reasons. My biggest single quibble is that I'd have Alba a lot higher; yeah, it's longer than it probably should be, but this is partially justified by what a hard target Alba is to take down, harder than anyone else in the series except possibly Ga'ran. I'd also expand the list with a few other final confrontations that occur mid-case: 3-5 Dahlia, E1-5 Shih-na, and 6-5 Atishon. The former two are multi-case villains who just happen to be taken down before the end of the case, while 6-5 really should have been two cases IMO.

I thought it was interesting that you said you didn't like the more composed/unflappable villains on your first time through. I'm the opposite; I liked them and I really disliked the flighty killers who start clawing madly for any lifeline on the stand. The latter have grown on me with time though I still prefer the more composed types; one of the reasons I liked Knightley and Simon's confrontations so much. (And special shout out to yeah, Knightley being waaay more impressive an opponent than the game leads you to expect by design; the dude is one smart cookie.)
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SeabassDebeste posted...

And that final nine-piece testimony is pretty clever.

Eleven-piece

So good

E1-4 is way too high

1-4 too low
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I have a lot of disagreements, don't want to go too deep into it though

Harmonica get outta here if you're here
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Dissin' of Phoenix Wright is #2 just below 1-4 for me

my top 10 final showdowns is probably

1. 1-4
2. E2-5
3. 5-6
4. 3-3
5. 1-5
6. 4-1
7. 3-5
8. 2-2
9. E2-4
10. E2-1

hm: 5-3 would make it if the evidence wasn't so contrived. E1-5 and 3-5 have better mid-game takedowns than the final guy. E2-3 might make my list but I would need to see it again.
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Initial kneejerk for mine, could fluctuate a lot based on my mood:

1. E2-5
2. 2-3
3. 3-3
4. E1-5
5. 1-3
6. 5-5
7. E2-1
8. 5-DLC
9. 5-2
10. 2-2

Unlike most here I'm not really a fan of 1-4's decision to blast things to the past, just because "did child Edgeworth, suffering from oxygen depreviation, throw a gun and kill someone by complete accident" is... well, I get why it matters to Edgeworth's mental well-being but it doesn't even approach murder so it's not a very dramatic way to end things for me. The metal detector and Manfred's breakdown are still amazing, though, so it's probably shortly after the ones I listed!

5-2 just feels like such an epic takedown because of the type of slime the killer is and I love the gotcha moment of the hair in the mask. In general I love when the case ends with a moment where the player logics their way into a smoking-gun type piece of evidence which proves their until-then flimsy case, 2-3 another great example of this.

Most of the others have already been explained I think.
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It really hadn't occurred to me how strong of an opponent Knightley really was, but man that gun switch was such a cool moment. It caught me off guard because you don't know how capable your first case killer is really going to be, so seeing Knightley pull off such a slick move really sets the tone for the rest of the game.

Bonus points for Knightley's animations actually playing into his coverup. Obviously, if anyone really treated a firearm like this guy IRL, he'd be instantly fired from his bodyguard job (he's shooting up this plane while the president is INSIDE), but you are used to AA villains being over the top. But who would have thought him firing the gun all over the place would actually play into his plot of disguising how many bullets are in his gun?
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I wouldn't know how to rank final confrontations, especially when SD is ranking it based on when the final witness gets on the stand, which for some cases is the entire case or the entire trial day.
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yeah that's basically all of 3-2
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list needs more laytonVS final confrontations
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transcience posted...

yeah that's basically all of 3-2

Nah, you have to drag Atmey into Ron's trial partway through trial day 2, so he's not the entire trial day!

3-2 might be pretty close to the record holder for fewest witnesses in a non-intro case though.
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I bet he's the highest percentage outside of, like, one-day trials. I don't think there's even a single witness outside of the detective/defendant in 3-2, right? maybe Dessie.
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Yep, pretty sure it's just Gumshoe, Ron, and Atmey. Dessie never testifies. She just brings in the urn. Day 1 is really short though, so I think Atmey only has a couple of them on day 1, which wouldn't even be half.
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4-2 only has three witnesses as well, same with 5-4 (though usual asterisk about 5-4). 3-4 and 6-4 also only have three witnesses (unless you count Owen separately from Uendo), but are ony-day cases of course. Can't think of any non-intro case with only two. 3-4 Dahlia and 3-2 Luke are probably around tied for highest percentage of time on the stand, and as noted Luke surely has the record for a multi-day trial.
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Actually, aren't Ini and Acro the only witnesses on their respective second days? I think Alita's the only day 2 witness in 4-2, too.

and technically Kristoph is the only witness on 4-4 day 2 but it literally only has one testimony lawl

I think Yuri Cosmos is the only witness on day 2 of 5-4
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adrian has like 4 on day 1 and 4 on day 2. not as high as a percentage but more testimonies overall i'd think
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LeonhartFour posted...

Actually, aren't Ini and Acro the only witnesses on their respective second days? I think Alita's the only day 2 witness in 4-2, too.

all sounds correct to me.

vazquez is nearly the only witness on day 3, but i guess sal manella gets cut short first.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

adrian has like 4 on day 1 and 4 on day 2. not as high as a percentage but more testimonies overall i'd think

It's 5 and 1.SeabassDebeste posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

Actually, aren't Ini and Acro the only witnesses on their respective second days? I think Alita's the only day 2 witness in 4-2, too.

all sounds correct to me.

vazquez is nearly the only witness on day 3, but i guess sal manella gets cut short first.

That's day 2. Vasquez has day 3 to herself.

Morgan Fey has a testimony on Day 2 of 2-2.
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4-2 is a weird anomaly because Wocky never gets on the stand. I think that's unusual. let me think..

1-2 - yes
1-3 - no
1-4 - maybe?
1-5 - yes
2-2 - don't think so
2-3 - no
2-4 - no
3-2 - yes
3-3 - no
3-5 - yes
4-2 - no
4-3 - no
4-4 - yes
5-2 - yes
5-3 - I think so?
5-5 - ....yes depending on who you mean
5-6 - yes
6-2 - yes
6-3 - yes
6-5 - yes
6-6 - I think so

okay, yeah, it's more like 50/50. Leon and others can surely brush up my oversights here cause I'm sure there are many.
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What is that a list of?

oh, yeah, guess I never said explicitly. cases where the defendant gets on the stand.
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For a cross-exam, or at all?

Wocky has the very first cross-examination of 4-2, because he "confesses" that he shot the doctor.

AxemRedRanger posted...

Morgan Fey has a testimony on Day 2 of 2-2.

oh right I forgot

the most disappointing cross-examination ever
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Anyway, if we're counting any time the defendant makes any kind of statement, then just about every defendant gets on the stand. If we're talking actual testimonies, then it's...

1-4 (but only the DL-6 part, not the Robert Hammond murder)
1-5
3-1
3-2
3-4
4-1
4-2
4-3
4-4
5-1
5-2
5-4
6-1
6-2 (Best defendant testimony ever)
6-5

wow 100% success rate for AJ and 0% for JFA
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Maya never testifies in 1-2? whoops

yeah 5-2 and 6-2 are good ones
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1-2 might be one of the rare times the defendant is never on the stand at all except to receive the verdict.

ironically 2-2 is another one of those times

for Maya being an important character accused of murder multiple times she rarely plays an important part in her own trials
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transience posted...

yeah 5-2 and 6-2 are good ones

Looking through the list I picked out those two and 3-1's as my favourite defendant testimonies. Although 3-1 is less the content of the testimony itself and more that I have a lot of respect for a series being willing to make its main character into a total buttmonkey.
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Pink Sweater Phoenix is worse than 4-0 Phoenix
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as far as cases where the defendant never gets on the stand at all except to receive their verdict, I think there's...

1-2
1-3
2-1
2-2
2-3
3-3

somehow Maya and Maggey are the queens of getting accused of murder and then doing nothing in trials

Also I can't remember if Sasha testifies on 5-6 day 2 or not. Orla does, but she's only the defendant for day 1.
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eh, I think of Orla as the defendant there. even on day 2 we're still trying to pin the crime on the orca.
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Rimes is trying to pin it on the orca, but Blackquill is trying to pin it on Sasha, which makes for a rather interesting dynamic when he's on the stand.
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also I was skimming through 5-6 last night and its pacing is so weird

Rimes hulks up, but then Phoenix and Blackquill argue for a while with Rimes occasionally chiming in, and then he gets off the stand for a decent bit of time to do the Orla testimony, and finally we have The Dissin' of Phoenix Wright

like I can't think of any other case where the villain actually gets taken off the stand after he transforms (or even does a minor "personality change" like Ini)
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LeonhartFour posted...

as far as cases where the defendant never gets on the stand at all except to receive their verdict, I think there's...

1-2
1-3
2-1
2-2
2-3
3-3

somehow Maya and Maggey are the queens of getting accused of murder and then doing nothing in trials

Also I can't remember if Sasha testifies on 5-6 day 2 or not. Orla does, but she's only the defendant for day 1.

Iris never technically comes to the stand in 3-5, does she? Whenever "Iris" is on the stand, it's actually Dahlia.
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She takes the stand for a few minutes after she's rescued from the Sacred Cavern, which is right after Dahlia is exorcised.

Plus, she's on the stand for that really long talk after Godot's breakdown before the verdict is handed down.
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happy new year!

will comment on some of these responses later!
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apparently the fan translation for the second DGS case is finished

not sure how much longer until they finish the rest of the game
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It's super annoying that for some reason, you can quickly scroll through text in the 3DS version of AA4 IF you use the buttons, but NOT if you use the stylus controls. it's completely baffling

Also I really wish these ports would bring back the whole 'just restart wherever you left off when you lose' mechanic, AA4 SORT OF has it but only sends you back to the last cross-exam, no matter how long ago that was

Huh, that is weird. I rarely speed through text unless I've just game overed and I'm trying to catch back up or I've initiated the same conversation a second time.

An annoying thing in SoJ is that using the stylus to advance text usually results in just bringing up the entire next text box entirely, unless it's switching who's speaking. I actually like the beeps and the boops and the artificial feeling of the "flow" of a conversation, so I have to just use the buttons to advance text whenever I play SoJ!
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One nice thing about 3DS AA4 (I assume this applies to the iOS version too?), they fixed the blinking sprites! The blinking looks like such crap in AAT, characters' eyes often only have two frames and it looks stupid. Looks super smooth here.

Apollo's got some kind of weird skin condition though, I swear, especially in his sweating animation where he turns pale except around his eyes

Apollo's always looked kind of rough in AJ, especially when he's nervous or surprised. Seriously, that damage animation where the entire right side of his mouth (and only the right side) drops is the weirdest thing ever.
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