Current Events > South Carolina lawmakers want to built a monument to African-Americans

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_OujiDoza_
01/02/18 9:41:18 AM
#1:


South Carolina lawmakers want to built a monument to African-Americans who fought for the Confederacy.

The problem: no African-Americans fought for the Confederacy, per historians and records.

https://t.co/zOKsmm3wzM

A monument to SCs black Confederate soldiers? None fought for the South, experts say

Two South Carolina lawmakers want to erect a monument on the State House grounds to African-Americans who served the state as Confederate soldiers. But records show the state never accepted nor recognized armed African-American soldiers during the Civil War.

In all my years of research, I can say I have seen no documentation of black South Carolina soldiers fighting for the Confederacy, said Walter Edgar, who for 32 years was director of the University of South Carolinas Institute for Southern Studies and is author of South Carolina: A History.

In fact, when secession came, the state turned down free (blacks) who wanted to volunteer because they didnt want armed persons of color, he said.

Pension records gleaned from the S.C. Department of History and Archives show no black Confederate soldiers received payment for combat service. And of the more than 300 blacks who did receive pensions after they were allowed in 1923, all served as body servants or cooks, the records show.

Confederate law prohibited blacks from bearing arms in the war, records show, until that edict was repealed in 1865 at the very end of the conflict.

That repeal resulted in a handful of African-American units in states such as Virginia and Texas. But there were none in South Carolina, which prohibited African-Americans from carrying guns in the states service throughout the war for fear of insurrection, according to the archives.

South Carolina had 291,300 white residents in 1860, according to the Historical Statistics of the United States, and 402,406 slaves. Also, 45 percent of white families in South Carolina owned slaves, the highest percentage of any American state, according to Edgars book, South Carolina: A History.

They deserve to be recognized

Legislation prefiled by state Reps. Bill Chumley, R-Spartanburg, and Mike Burns, R-Greenville, on Dec. 13 would create a commission to establish a monument honoring black Confederate veterans.

Both lawmakers voted against removing the Confederate flag from the State House grounds in 2015. The flag was removed about a month after self-professed white supremacist Dylann Roof massacred nine parishioners at Emanuel AME Church in Charleston on the evening of June 17, 2015.

While there is representation of those African-Americans from South Carolina who took up arms for the Union, there is nothing to show the contributions, sacrifices and honor of their Confederate counterparts, the bill states.

Contacted by The State newspaper, Chumley on Friday clarified that the monument would honor the service of all blacks who served the Confederacy in any capacity.

We dont see thats a problem, he said, referring to the lack of evidence of armed black Confederate soldiers. If they served in the Confederate Army, they deserve to be recognized.

A companion bill also filed by Chumley and Burns would form a commission to catalog the contributions of black South Carolinians to the Confederacy and include their service in public school curriculum.

We are all learning a lot, Chumley said. The purpose of the bill is education.

But Edgar, who also hosts Walter Edgars Journal on South Carolina Educational Radio, said those workers were either slaves or free blacks pressed into duty as unpaid labor.

They were all enslaved, he said.

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beechesfreeman
01/02/18 9:42:10 AM
#2:


what about catcher freeman?
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_OujiDoza_
01/02/18 9:42:18 AM
#3:


The tail of the Army is huge

In pension records from 1923 stored at the archives, three blacks claimed armed service in S.C. units:

Tom Bing of Hampton listed himself as a private soldier in Colcocks Regiment under Capt. Bill Peebles.

Tom Arch of Spartanburg described himself as a private in Co. B, 1st S.C. Cavalry.

John McKinley of Charleston claimed he was a private and Charleston rifleman in the 14th regiment.

Their pensions were approved, records show, but they only qualified under the law as cooks or body servants. No confirmation of their armed service has been found, according to archive historians.

But the concept of Confederate service is murky, said Joe Long, curator of education for the S.C. Confederate Relic Room and Military Museum. In addition to cooks, body servants or laborers, blacks also served as buglers, musicians, stretcher bearers and in other support roles that could be interpreted as military service.

They may not have been infantrymen, he said. But the logistical tail of the Army is huge, as it is today.

So much for freedom

In his book Black Charlestonians: A Social History, 1822-1885, historian Bernard Powers noted that even free, mixed-race South Carolinians were denied armed military service.

Only a few weeks after the state seceded, members of the brown elite, such as Robert Howard, Richard and Joseph Dereef, and Anthony Weston, petitioned the governor, he wrote. Their message proclaimed in our veins flows the blood of the white race, in some half, in others much more than half white blood our allegiance is due to South Carolina and in her defense, we will offer up our lives, and all that is dear to us.

In addition to denying them service, S.C. state law allowed military commanders to require all male free negroes, moors, mulattoes and mestizoes, between the age of eighteen and forty five years to labor on behalf of the state without pay.

The free labor was limited to 10 days a year. If a free black or mixed-race man refused, he could be fined $2.50 a day for each day he did not work, the records show.

Those laws show a complete rejection of armed military service for blacks and mixed race residents, regardless of their willingness to serve, Edgar said.

So much for freedom, he said.


It's time to wage a war against stupidity...
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#4
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#5
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Master_Bass
01/02/18 10:21:47 AM
#6:


_OujiDoza_ posted...
South Carolina lawmakers want to built a monument to African-Americans

Oh, how nice.

_OujiDoza_ posted...
who fought for the Confederacy.

Wpf6K8O
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Antifar
01/02/18 10:30:22 AM
#7:


If the state wants to honor people from that era, create a monument to emancipation. Create a monument for the SCers who fought for the Union (there were more of them than black Confederates)
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_OujiDoza_
01/02/18 10:37:53 AM
#8:


Master_Bass posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
South Carolina lawmakers want to built a monument to African-Americans

Oh, how nice.

_OujiDoza_ posted...
who fought for the Confederacy.

Wpf6K8O

lol
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Will446
01/02/18 10:41:07 AM
#9:


How about the Black Angoligan who demanded the colonies change the law of the land and demanded slavery for life like was normal in the Middle East and Africa named Anthony Johnson.

If it wasnt for a strong black man we wouldnt have had slavery for life and yes there were many other black slave owners in the south.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)
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beechesfreeman
01/02/18 10:44:04 AM
#10:


Will446 posted...
How about the Black Angoligan who demanded the colonies change the law of the land and demanded slavery for life like was normal in the Middle East and Africa named Anthony Johnson.

If it wasnt for a strong black man we wouldnt have had slavery for life and yes there were many other black slave owners in the south.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)

Your point?
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beechesfreeman
01/02/18 10:44:52 AM
#11:


Will446 posted...
If it wasnt for a strong black man we wouldnt have had slavery

Oh wait this? Yikes
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GeneralZhao
01/02/18 10:44:57 AM
#12:


I get that things like pride can't really be quantified but at the same time, how many more Confederate monuments does the state of South Carolina need?
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frozenshock
01/02/18 10:45:23 AM
#13:


_OujiDoza_ posted...
no African-Americans fought for the Confederacy, per historians and records.


Fake news, etc.
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GeneralZhao
01/02/18 10:45:39 AM
#14:


Besides that,

shockthemonkey posted...
Theyre really going all out with this Im not racist if I have a black friend strategy.

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frozenshock
01/02/18 10:48:09 AM
#15:


GeneralZhao posted...
Besides that,

shockthemonkey posted...
Theyre really going all out with this Im not racist if I have a black friend strategy.


If you're not racist when you have a black friend, what does it make you when you have a black female muslim friend?
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Will446
01/02/18 10:49:42 AM
#16:


frozenshock posted...
GeneralZhao posted...
Besides that,

shockthemonkey posted...
Theyre really going all out with this Im not racist if I have a black friend strategy.


If you're not racist when you have a black friend, what does it make you when you have a black female muslim friend?


What about having a black son?
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CableZL
01/02/18 10:54:10 AM
#17:


frozenshock posted...
If you're not racist when you have a black friend, what does it make you when you have a black female muslim friend?


The number of black friends required to not be racist was raised to 2 a few years ago.
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DifferentialEquation
01/02/18 11:16:31 AM
#18:


Why is this a bad thing, liberals? I always hear about how you want more inclusion/diversity. Plenty of times, there have been movies and video games where the characters were all or mostly white, and even in the cases where it made historical sense for the cast to be all or mostly white you still cried for more diversity. You can't have it both ways. If you oppose a monument to honor black confederate soldiers, then you're a racist and a hypocrite.
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_OujiDoza_
01/02/18 11:20:28 AM
#19:


DifferentialEquation posted...
Why is this a bad thing, liberals? I always hear about how you want more inclusion/diversity. Plenty of times, there have been movies and video games where the characters were all or mostly white, and even in the cases where it made historical sense for the cast to be all or mostly white you still cried for more diversity. You can't have it both ways. If you oppose a monument to honor black confederate soldiers, then you're a racist and a hypocrite.

This might be the dumbest post in the history of posts...
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#20
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frozenshock
01/02/18 11:42:12 AM
#21:


Asherlee10 posted...
I'm screwed. I haven't even seen a black person in like 5 months or more.


You got to look harder. There has to be one somewhere
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uwnim
01/02/18 11:46:18 AM
#22:


Like do they still hate this country that much that they are looking for excuses to build more mumuments of treason?
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Solar_Crimson
01/02/18 11:47:08 AM
#23:


_OujiDoza_ posted...
DifferentialEquation posted...
Why is this a bad thing, liberals? I always hear about how you want more inclusion/diversity. Plenty of times, there have been movies and video games where the characters were all or mostly white, and even in the cases where it made historical sense for the cast to be all or mostly white you still cried for more diversity. You can't have it both ways. If you oppose a monument to honor black confederate soldiers, then you're a racist and a hypocrite.

This might be the dumbest post in the history of posts...

Well, look who made it.
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StridentArremer
01/02/18 11:54:59 AM
#24:


How about a monument to Cthulhu instead? The world seems to be getting progressively insane. I think it's time we concede that the Old One's awakening is drawing near.
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DifferentialEquation
01/02/18 11:55:08 AM
#25:


Solar_Crimson posted...
_OujiDoza_ posted...
DifferentialEquation posted...
Why is this a bad thing, liberals? I always hear about how you want more inclusion/diversity. Plenty of times, there have been movies and video games where the characters were all or mostly white, and even in the cases where it made historical sense for the cast to be all or mostly white you still cried for more diversity. You can't have it both ways. If you oppose a monument to honor black confederate soldiers, then you're a racist and a hypocrite.

This might be the dumbest post in the history of posts...

Well, look who made it.


And yet neither of you are able to refute the argument.
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Kineth
01/02/18 12:01:18 PM
#26:


Asherlee10 posted...
CableZL posted...
frozenshock posted...
If you're not racist when you have a black friend, what does it make you when you have a black female muslim friend?


The number of black friends required to not be racist was raised to 2 a few years ago.


I'm screwed. I haven't even seen a black person in like 5 months or more.


We can be friends!
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uwnim
01/02/18 12:01:54 PM
#27:


DifferentialEquation posted...
Why is this a bad thing, liberals? I always hear about how you want more inclusion/diversity. Plenty of times, there have been movies and video games where the characters were all or mostly white, and even in the cases where it made historical sense for the cast to be all or mostly white you still cried for more diversity. You can't have it both ways. If you oppose a monument to honor black confederate soldiers, then you're a racist and a hypocrite.

Im for using rng to randomly determine the backgrounds of characters based on the population breakdown of their profession in their region. Rather unlikely youd be able to roll enough black South Carolinian confederate soldiers.
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CableZL
01/02/18 12:01:55 PM
#28:


Asherlee10 posted...
CableZL posted...
frozenshock posted...
If you're not racist when you have a black friend, what does it make you when you have a black female muslim friend?


The number of black friends required to not be racist was raised to 2 a few years ago.


I'm screwed. I haven't even seen a black person in like 5 months or more.

You've got a friend in me
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thanosibe
01/02/18 12:05:14 PM
#29:


CableZL posted...
frozenshock posted...
If you're not racist when you have a black friend, what does it make you when you have a black female muslim friend?


The number of black friends required to not be racist was raised to 2 a few years ago.
oepnx79xdH8UU
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StucklnMyPants
01/02/18 12:06:40 PM
#30:


I have to wonder why they didn't bother to find out if there were black confederate soldiers (in SC), prior to introducing the legislation. I mean, it wouldn't take very long to verify and then they wouldn't have looked like morons that are just trying to pull the race card to save a bunch of statues. smdh
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