Current Events > NH trying to create a poll tax for students

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/new-hampshire-senate-passes-poll-tax-to-suppress-student-voting.html

On Wednesday, the New Hampshire Senate passed a controversial measure known as HB 372 along party lines, with 14 Republicans in favor and nine Democrats opposed. HB 372 is essentially a poll tax on students who moved to New Hampshire for college, requiring many of them to pay hundreds of dollars in order to cast a ballot. The bill will almost certainly pass the GOP-controlled House in the coming weeks. Gov. Chris Sununu, a Republican, opposes HB 372, but has not yet revealed whether he plans to veto it.

New Hampshire Republicans have long sought to restrict college students ability to vote in the state. In the early 1970s, the state denied the ballot to college students who planned to move away after graduation. A federal court ruled that university students have a constitutional right to vote where they live, but Republican town clerks continued to block students access to the ballot for decades. In 2012, the GOP-controlled Legislature passed a law that falsely told residents that they could not register to vote unless they planned to remain indefinitely. The New Hampshire Supreme Court unanimously invalidated the measure as a violation of the state constitution.
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Put simply, HB 372 is an effort to impose fines on voters who do not have a New Hampshires drivers license, even though it is legal to vote in the Granite State with an out-of-state license. The bill would impose two affirmative obligations on new voters: Within 60 days of registering, a voter must register her car with the state and obtain a New Hampshire drivers license. These burdens would not increase electoral integrity in any meaningful way. They would, however, likely dissuade many college students from registering to vote in the statebecause many would have to pay hundreds of dollars in order to do so. As I explained in December, when HB 372 passed out of committee:

A drivers license costs $50, and car registration costs even more. Initial registration and plate fees cost $23. Registrants must also pay separate state and municipal fees; state fees for a midsize car add up to $50 a year while municipal fees for a new vehicle can total several hundred dollars.Various administrative fees (title application, waste reclamation, data processing) add another $20. (College students who dont have cars wont face these obligations; a student who moves to New Hampshire for college might prefer to leave her car behind in order to preserve her voting rights.)

If HB 372 passes, then, car-driving college students who move to New Hampshire from another state will have two options. They can relinquish their right to vote, remain domiciled without residency, and retain their out-of-state license and registration, costing them nothing. Or they can exercise their right to vote, become residents, and turn over hundreds of dollars to the state. Properly understood, the law looks a lot like a special tax on college students who exercise the franchise.

New Hampshire Democrats, as well as the American Civil Liberties Union and other voting rights advocates, condemn HB 372 as an unlawful poll tax. During debate on Wednesday, Democratic legislators pointed out that the bill presented a dubious solution to a nonexistent problem..

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You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.
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And we can expect to see conservatives decrying this measure because they oppose regulations, right?
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Good we don't want fucking massholes massholifying our state.
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TomNook20 posted...

Good we don't want fucking massholes massholifying our state.

As a masshole, I agree.

Fair, next.
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SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

This. Either move here or vote in your own state.
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Cool. NH taxpayers can look forward to footing the bill for the legal battle their state is about to lose.
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Isn't... Isn't that illegal?
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Tag
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Do these children really deserve to be able to with the grown ups about issues?

If you cant afford a simple fee, isnt that a sign that youre incapable? Their parasites
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CarlGrimes posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

This. Either move here or vote in your own state.

Seems like they'd have more reason to stay if they were able to cast a vote while they lived there.
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CarlGrimes posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

This. Either move here or vote in your own state.

Colleges have classes on Election Day. Are you suggesting that college students need to choose between attending class and participating in the democratic process?
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A_Good_Boy posted...

CarlGrimes posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

This. Either move here or vote in your own state.

Seems like they'd have more reason to stay if they were able to cast a vote while they lived there.

Well if they lived here than they can vote.
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Republicans trying to suppress votes?

I AM SHOCKED!

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Well, I'm not that shocked.
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CircleOfManias posted...

CarlGrimes posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

This. Either move here or vote in your own state.

Colleges have classes on Election Day. Are you suggesting that college students need to choose between attending class and participating in the democratic process?

ITP: mail in ballots dont exist

Also LOL thinking that every college kid is in class all day. Most only have a couple and maybe a lab.
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this is a good idea depending on what votes are being supressed
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BreezyExcursion posted...

this is a good idea depending on what votes are being supressed

uh
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BLAKUboy posted...

Isn't... Isn't that illegal?

Leave it to the party of "fiscal responsibility" to come up with a bill that even an illiterate 8th century Chinese person would instantly know is unconstitutional.
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

CircleOfManias posted...

CarlGrimes posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

This. Either move here or vote in your own state.

Colleges have classes on Election Day. Are you suggesting that college students need to choose between attending class and participating in the democratic process?

ITP: mail in ballots dont exist

Also LOL thinking that every college kid is in class all day. Most only have a couple and maybe a lab.

Exactly. They can mail in their ballots like everyone else. If you want to effect our politics than you can move here, like the libertarians are doing.
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Frankly, I hope they expand this to where you have to claim residency in the state you wish to buy property in, etc.
Like 90% of new housing is bought by people that don't live here, and don't plan on living in the unit because they're playing the housing market game.

And we can expect to see conservatives decrying this measure because they oppose regulations, right?

About as surely as we will see liberals supporting it.
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Can't they already vote in their home state where they're registered as a permanent resident? On paper, this shouldn't impact anyone except students voting twice.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

And we can expect to see conservatives decrying this measure because they oppose regulations, right?

Nah, that would require them to have some integrity.
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DevsBro posted...

And we can expect to see conservatives decrying this measure because they oppose regulations, right?

About as surely as we will see liberals supporting it.

This makes no sense. I don't know any liberals who are for regulations regardless of what they are.

We all know tons of conservatives that oppose regulation anytime it doesn't favor them exclusively.

Edit: I may have read that wrong though so if so my bad.
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s0nicfan posted...

Can't they already vote in their home state where they're registered as a permanent resident? On paper, this shouldn't impact anyone except students voting twice.

No one's voting twice; these are students who for are registering to vote in NH as opposed to their home state.

Also, depending on the timing of things, kids 18-21 may not yet be registered to vote anywhere.
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mustachedmystic posted...

an illiterate 8th century Chinese person

...What?
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Don't you have to be a resident to vote anyway seems like it shouldn't be a problem. If the out of state student changes their residency they should be allowed to vote, if they left their residency as their home state then they shouldn't be allowed to vote in local elections in the first place.
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Antifar posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Can't they already vote in their home state where they're registered as a permanent resident? On paper, this shouldn't impact anyone except students voting twice.

No one's voting twice; these are students who for are registering to vote in NH as opposed to their home state.

Also, depending on the timing of things, kids 18-21 may not yet be registered to vote anywhere.

But as far as I'm aware you can only register to vote in the state under which you claim permanent residency, and students don't generally (or can't) claim a dorm as a permanent residence. So they would still have absentee voting rights in their home state. Even if they first register on campus, they would need to put their permanent address.
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I wonder if they'd do the same if college kids were stereotypically conservative, rather than liberal.
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s0nicfan posted...

But as far as I'm aware you can only register to vote in the state under which you claim permanent residency, and students don't generally (or can't) claim a dorm as a permanent residence. So they would still have absentee voting rights in their home state. Even if they first register on campus, they would need to put their permanent address.

if you dug into this even a little you would know that the entire debate sort of hinges on an argument over the two sides over this very thing

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/12/new_hampshire_republicans_want_to_impose_a_poll_tax_on_college_students.html

The new bill moving through the state Legislature, known as HB 372, is much worse. Under current lawwhich is a reflection of federal court mandatesan individual may vote in New Hampshire if she is domiciled there. That simply means she resides in the state more than any other place, a standard that comports with the U.S. Constitution. Under HB 372, however, an individual is allowed to vote in New Hampshire only if she is a resident. And residency status carries two affirmative obligations: Within 60 days of becoming a resident, an individual must register her car with the state and obtain a New Hampshire drivers license.

I'm not a lawyer and Im not from NH so Im not familiar enough with the situation to say if that makes sense,though.
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nexigrams posted...

I wonder if they'd do the same if college kids were stereotypically conservative, rather than liberal.

Probably not, but democrats wouldn't be calling for free college for all, either, so let's not pretend that this is a one sided thing.
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From my own experience, I went to school in MA, and voted absentee in NY because there wasn't a particularly compelling reason for me to change my registration. But, my presence in the state for 6+ months out of the year meant I was eligible for jury duty in MA.
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Balrog0 posted...

I'm not a lawyer and Im not from NH so Im not familiar enough with the situation to say if that makes sense,though.

I just don't see the material harm being created here. Every single one of those students can vote in their home state (which is where their drivers' license is from). Nobody is being denied the right to vote, and since absentee ballots are a thing, nobody is being forced to pay a fine to vote. No rights are being violated, and the ruling makes NH consistent with many other states with the same residency restrictions.
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This reminds me of Election Day when republicans peppered college campuses in Maine with leaflets that falsely claimed it would cost hundreds of dollars to vote and that it was illegal to even try so you better not vote unless you have $800 to become a resident of the state within 30 days.

Yeah it was all untrue. But it sure kept college students from voting so mission accomplished I guess.
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Disgusting, unconstitutional voter suppression. Of course, the republicans are defending it because they don't actually care about the constitution.
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s0nicfan posted...

nexigrams posted...

I wonder if they'd do the same if college kids were stereotypically conservative, rather than liberal.

Probably not, but democrats wouldn't be calling for free college for all, either, so let's not pretend that this is a one sided thing.

Wait, are you implying that liberals are only advocating for free college due to the lack of conservatives who enroll?

You know full well that's a bold faced lie that no one actually believes.
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Zeeak4444 posted...

Wait, are you implying that liberals are only advocating for free college due to the lack of conservatives who enroll?

No, I'm implying that if free college overwhelmingly benefited conservatives over liberals it wouldn't be a high priority for them, which is why all their free college proposals never include trade schools and blue collar training.

EDIT: I'm not saying conservatives don't go to college, but campuses are overwhelmingly liberal.
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s0nicfan posted...

which is why all their free college proposals never include trade schools and blue collar training.

I mean, almost every single proposal to expand college affordability in this manner has centered on 2 year colleges which disproportionately do have exactly those things.

I guess it also isn't partisan outside the federal realm, though. Tennesse and Kentcuky have done this, as well as Minnesota and Oregon
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s0nicfan posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

Wait, are you implying that liberals are only advocating for free college due to the lack of conservatives who enroll?

No, I'm implying that if free college overwhelmingly benefited conservatives over liberals it wouldn't be a high priority for them, which is why all their free college proposals never include trade schools and blue collar training.

That's fair enough, I can't say I've seen enough to form an opinion on but I certainly agree with the tradeschool part. To my knowledge that was largely due to a lack of people pursuing those fields though.

That would seem like something the actual attendees of tradeschool should push for. Can't expect people to dedicate time to an issue that doesn't affect them when they're in the middle of a fight on an issue that does.

Seems like the blame falls squarely on those pursuing trade school IMO and for good reason.

Edit:

Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

which is why all their free college proposals never include trade schools and blue collar training.

I mean, almost every single proposal to expand college affordability in this manner has centered on 2 year colleges which disproportionately do have exactly those things.

I guess it also isn't partisan outside the federal realm, though. Tennesse and Kentcuky have done this, as well as Minnesota and Oregon

Another fair point to add on.
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SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

Tell that to the arizona snowbirds.
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Zeeak4444 posted...

Seems like the blame falls squarely on those pursuing trade school IMO and for good reason.

If we're going to blame trade school students for not fighting hard enough as reasons that they're often not included in these types of proposals, then I'm going to blame any NH university student who believes their voting rights are being infringed that are too lazy to submit an absentee ballot to their home state come voting time.
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s0nicfan posted...

they're often not included in these types of proposals

I just really don't think that's true, though. Vocational schools are typically colleges.
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SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

There is a constant student population in the state though. And people living in a state for four years deserve to have their voice heard as well

This is blatantly obvious democrat vote suppression
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s0nicfan posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

Seems like the blame falls squarely on those pursuing trade school IMO and for good reason.

If we're going to blame trade school students for not fighting hard enough as reasons that they're often not included in these types of proposals, then I'm going to blame any NH university student who believes their voting rights are being infringed that are too lazy to submit an absentee ballot to their home state come voting time.

I wouldn't knock you for that lol.

That's quite different than supporting this regulation though.

It's not like I said people wouldn't support a proposal for trade schools (exclusive trade schools). I'm sure most would if it came up.

It's a false equivalence at best.
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Balrog0 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

they're often not included in these types of proposals

I just really don't think that's true, though. Vocational schools are typically colleges.

my buddy who's an iron worker didn't go to a vocational school, though. He apprenticed at a hall. There are a lot of blue collar trades that aren't learned at vocational schools.
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TheGoldenEel posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

There is a constant student population in the state though. And people living in a state for four years deserve to have their voice heard as well

This is blatantly obvious democrat vote suppression

only if you assume most college students are democrats. Also that they can't just submit an absentee ballot in their home state.
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s0nicfan posted...

TheGoldenEel posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

You don't just get to come in, change things to fit your liking, then move away.

There is a constant student population in the state though. And people living in a state for four years deserve to have their voice heard as well

This is blatantly obvious democrat vote suppression

only if you assume most college students are democrats. Also that they can't just submit an absentee ballot in their home state.

...most students are Democrats. Its the same reason republicans institute laws that make it harder for minorities to vote

Also isnt the argument that they can cast absentee votes saying they should be voting for lawmakers in a state theyre not even living in? You dont get to change things to fit your liking for when you get back in 4-5 years
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s0nicfan posted...

my buddy who's an iron worker didn't go to a vocational school, though. He apprenticed at a hall. There are a lot of blue collar trades that aren't learned at vocational schools.

the US should do more to promote apprenticeships, too, but how is this not just moving the goal post?

Ironworker isn't a specific job (there are various kinds of ironworkers) but the only reason you couldn't learn what you needed in tradeschool is that a union has a racket on the work in that sector.

I'm struggling to find a proper analogy, but for lack of a better one, we don't expect the US to pay for McDonald's University for McDonald's workers so subsidizing a union-centered apprenticeship program feels wrong to me, though I do not think democrats or liberals would be against it fwiw
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