Current Events > History doesn't talk enough about the WW1 trenches were fuck all happened.

(+) Yeah! (+)

There were trenches all across France and as a result there were large sections of land of no real strategic value where both the Germans and the allies had to entrench a token force for no other reason than to the stop the other side from advancing if literally no one was there.

And because a lot of the soldiers were British (and then American/Canadian) a lot of the allies stationed in these areas didn't even really try to push forward since it wasn't their country and they didn't really care. Even when ordered to. They would literally sneak across no man's land, steal German Barbed wire, cut it into pieces, then come back and tell command "Look we pushed, here we got the barbed wire to prove it. Honest."

There are even accounts of the English speaking German soldiers talking to the British ones, exchanging chocolate and cigarettes, singing together and warning each other in advance when they were going to shell each other so no one died.

This went on for years

None of the soldiers on either side wanted to be there, none of them wanted to kill the other, all of them knew how pointless their station was, all of them knew they couldn't actually advance due to their low numbers and no advantages for doing so and their command didn't expect or want them to.

They all knew were they just sitting in a hole just as a token deterrent and nothing was going to change until the entire Theatre of War changed, which there was no sign of happening. Just sit in a hole and do literally nothing for years.

That's a really interesting situation and mindset and no one seems to talk about it.

I think you could make a game or a sit-com out of that. Why do only the shooty shooty bang bang trenches get attention?
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I mean it gets talked about plenty

Like that was one of the main things we learned about when learning WWI was trench warfare

What a stupid topic
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People sat in ditch and had a miserable time until a grenade managed to hit them and they had a dead time.

What more is there to spend time on?

thought this was a really dumb topic until the sitcom idea. I'd watch that
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Doom_Art posted...

I mean it gets talked about plenty

Like that was one of the main things we learned about when learning WWI was trench warfare

What a stupid topic

that's not all that his post was about...and trenches were taught, yes, but not this information.

what a stupid reply.

SamuelHyde posted...

that's not all that his post was about...and trenches were taught, yes, but not this information.

This info was absolutely taught to me
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Yeah WWI is pretty crazy.
soldiers spent a short amount of time at the actual front at a time. I think it was 4 days at a time or something?
the methods were crazy as well. Zeppelins anyone? Also the giant artillery piece the Germans tried to shoot 500 miles into Paris? Lmao!
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hortanz posted...

thought this was a really dumb topic until the sitcom idea. I'd watch that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackadder_Goes_Forth

You should watch it. It's great.

hortanz posted...

thought this was a really dumb topic until the sitcom idea. I'd watch that

Good thing you can
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WWI was the Rob Schneider of wars. Nobody asked for it, nobody benefited from it, and everyone was worse off because of it.
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Doom_Art posted...

I mean it gets talked about plenty

Like that was one of the main things we learned about when learning WWI was trench warfare

If your school taught you about the parts of France where nothing happened at all and what the soldiers did/went through for years then I'm pleasantly surprise.

I've never heard anyone talk about it beyond historians dedicated to talking about WW1 specifically. It's all just Verdun, The Somme, Gallipoli, Marnes, Passchendaele . The causes of the war, the advancement of modern war technology, gas etc.

No one really talks about the dudes who didn't do any of that and just sat in a hole for years doing nothing.
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In history class we learned some of this. Not to this detail, but the fact that they went out of the trenches to celebrate Christmas together is taught.
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

hortanz posted...

thought this was a really dumb topic until the sitcom idea. I'd watch that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackadder_Goes_Forth

You should watch it. It's great.

Starring

Rowan Atkinson
Tony Robinson
Hugh Laurie
Stephen Fry
Tim McInnerny


Wow man
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Watch The Great War channel on youtube if you haven't already if you want to learn everything about the war

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P92guhd7d-8
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SamuelHyde posted...

that's not all that his post was about...and trenches were taught, yes, but not this information.

its kinda weird to realize that there are schools where this ISN'T covered

NibeIungsnarf posted...

hortanz posted...

thought this was a really dumb topic until the sitcom idea. I'd watch that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackadder_Goes_Forth

You should watch it. It's great.

o shit thanks
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Doom_Art posted...

SamuelHyde posted...

that's not all that his post was about...and trenches were taught, yes, but not this information.

This info was absolutely taught to me

no it wasn't.

just own up to not reading past the title and move on.

TC I want you to know I copy and paste your topics to LL and get lots of attention from them. Thanks.
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josifrees posted...

the methods were crazy as well. Zeppelins anyone?

Zeppelins absolutely were not a stupid idea at the start of the war.

They were hard as fuck to shoot down, and fantastic for observation.

Sure the German's sending Zeppelins over to bomb England did very little damage for a lot of money but it was never supposed to be an effective attack, it was supposed to be psychological. Showing England that Germany could hit them and doing so with fucking scary giant airships.

Sure they got outclassed by planes pretty quickly as the war got going but at first, they were a really good idea.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

hortanz posted...

thought this was a really dumb topic until the sitcom idea. I'd watch that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackadder_Goes_Forth

You should watch it. It's great.

Starring

Rowan Atkinson
Tony Robinson
Hugh Laurie
Stephen Fry
Tim McInnerny


Wow man

Yeah Blackadder is a great show (not just season 4) but it's set at the Somme. So It's kinda missing the point of this topic

Sativa_Rose posted...

Watch The Great War channel on youtube if you haven't already if you want to learn everything about the war

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P92guhd7d-8

I absolutely love that channel.

Apparently BBC also did a similar podcast series on WW1 which is great but I have never listened to it
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Probably because nothing happened there so they concentrate in the areas that were cooler like the battles and explosions.
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Where's that campaign in bf1?
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There was a Christmas song about Snoopy and the Red Baron dogfighting, and then when the Red Baron is about to shoot him, he decides "you know what, it's Christmas" and lets him go.
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MrResetti posted...

Where's that campaign in bf1?

I'd unironically love it if BF1 did a campaign were you didn't shoot anyone.

It would be hilarious and interesting to see what they could come up to fill the space. Even if they failed.
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SamuelHyde posted...

Doom_Art posted...

SamuelHyde posted...

that's not all that his post was about...and trenches were taught, yes, but not this information.

This info was absolutely taught to me

no it wasn't.

just own up to not reading past the title and move on.

I mean, we talked about this in my history classes in HS too. It's not abnormal.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

MrResetti posted...

Where's that campaign in bf1?

I'd unironically love it if BF1 did a campaign were you didn't shoot anyone.

It would be hilarious and interesting to see what they could come up to fill the space. Even if they failed.

The unreliable narrator campaign in BF1 was surprising clever
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Where did I say stupid anywhere in my post?
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Sparksfanboy posted...

They didn't understand the realities of modern warfare at the time.

This is why WW1 happened.

Germany and the UK (and America too) didn't even think the war was going to escalate. At least the people with money didn't.

And Austria-Hungary/Italy literally just thought they could win wars by throwing large amount of armed troops at whatever you want to take over. They were just spoiling for a fight.

Russia too seemed to have the Zapp Brannigan stratergy of just throwing endless waves of men to the death until you win.

There isn't a single nation in WW1 that didn't come across like a complete idiot except arguably Switzerland and Mexico whose "You know what? Fuck this is stupid" stood the test of time as a stance
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Doom_Art posted...

I mean it gets talked about plenty

Like that was one of the main things we learned about when learning WWI was trench warfare

What a stupid topic

Wow you cannot read for shit
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SamuelHyde posted...

no it wasn't.

My school certainly did teach that large areas of trench only existed to stop the other side going. It also taught us that no one there, wanted to be there, and mostly just sat around for years and years.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Sparksfanboy posted...

They didn't understand the realities of modern warfare at the time.

Russia too seemed to have the Zapp Brannigan stratergy of just throwing endless waves of men to the death until you win.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/228/893/93c.jpg
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Yeah I wrote a paper on trench warfare in like high school

Shit was fucked up

It was impossible for either side to advance because the other side was just dug in so deep and there's just no way to cross no mans land without getting merked

They just sit back and fire mortars at each other
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WWI is a classic example of technology outpacing philosophy
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Muffinz0rz posted...

Yeah I wrote a paper on trench warfare in like high school

Shit was fucked up

It was impossible for either side to advance because the other side was just dug in so deep and there's just no way to cross no mans land without getting merked

They just sit back and fire mortars at each other

More complicated that than, Germany set up an incredibe complex chain of backup trenches and fortresses that even if the allies did push forward (which they did many times) they couldn't really advance and just got pushed back.

It was almost the biggest real life stalemate in history. Literally neither side could defeat the other. Assuming food and supplies weren't limited, they could have been there for decades and never changed.
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Canada was automatically at war in WW1 when Britain declared war. They did not join the war with the USA as your OP implies.
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I thought trenches and No Man's Land were pretty much all people knew about WW1.
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thelovefist posted...

Canada was automatically at war in WW1 when Britain declared war. They did not join the war with the USA as your OP implies.

My post never implied that. I said the Britsh and then later the Americans/Canadians because they turned up later. I didn't say anything about when the nations declared war. British troops were in France long before any Canadian Jackboots turned up.

Although Canada in WW1 is a facinating read, they punched way above their weight.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Literally neither side could defeat the other.

the 100-year old theory of clausewitz was driving both sides' warfare planning

fundamentally the philosophy was defensive, with the objective of warfare being to deplete the other side's manpower until their political will to fight collapses

deploy troops, initiate artillery shelling, hold the line as the other side is forced to engage and use firepower to inflict heavy casualties.

it was incredibly effective during the colonization period as the superior technology of the western nations destroyed the draft armies they fought immediately and rapidly collapsed their governments. it was also effective in smaller scale wars between nations with differing levels of manpower.

that same technology, deployed between two western powers, created the standoff you describe. in theory, one could defeat the other, once one side was down to their last few thousand available soldiers and the other had none.

they nearly did just that. an entire generation of young men vanished.
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Darkman124 posted...

fundamentally the plan was defensive, with the objective of warfare being to deplete the other side's manpower until their political will to fight collapses

it was incredibly effective during the colonization period as the superior technology of the western nations destroyed the draft armies they fought immediately and rapidly collapsed their governments

that same technology, deployed between two western powers, created the standoff you describe. in theory, one could defeat the other, once one side was down to their last few thousand available soldiers and the other had none.

Well yes.

The German's on again off again stratergy of taking down American transport ships is probably the damned if you do, damned if you don't part of the war.

If they take them down, America joins the war.
If they don't take them down, the UK and France continue to get supplies that Germany doesn't and they lose the war of attrition.

People give Germany shit for it and for the Zimmermann Telegram but I actually see why they tried to sink American boats and tie them up. The fear of America turning up at some point down the line had to be less scary than the fear that we're all eating turnips and they're still getting meat, bread and steel delivered.
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there are hundreds of books about this topic
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Well yes.

The German's on again off again stratergy of taking down American transport ships is probably the damned if you do, damned if you don't part of the war.

If they take them down, America joins the war.
If they don't take them down, the UK and France continue to get supplies that Germany doesn't and they lose the war of attrition.

People give Germany s*** for it and for the Zimmermann Telegram but I actually see why they tried to sink American boats and tie them up. The fear of America turning up at some point down the line had to be less scary than the fear that we're all eating turnips and they're still getting meat, bread and steel delivered.

absolutely--the element of clausewitzian theory that absolutely nailed germany was the power of the british fleet. the germans were blockaded from day 1 of the war, couldn't do a thing about it. brits took all of their colonies, and in those battles, the brits were able to field superior firepower (due to their logistics not being bottled) and apply the theory effectively.

plus america was pretending to be neutral when we clearly were not.

iirc the lusitania was carrying arms.
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You know what the history doesnt talk enough about?
The underground warfare.
Big underground shelters with tunnels going into enemy land trying to blow up the enemies underground advancements.
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Darkman124 posted...

plus america was pretending to be neutral when we clearly were not.

iirc the lusitania was carrying arms.

It was although that was only confirmed recently.

What's funny is that the US actually made propaganda films about joining WW1 before they actually joined the war that brought it up.

America was just waiting for an excuse to get in.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

None of the soldiers on either side wanted to be there, none of them wanted to kill the other, all of them knew how pointless their station was, all of them knew they couldn't actually advance due to their low numbers and no advantages for doing so and their command didn't expect or want them to.

Why didn't they just go home then

UnfairRepresent posted...

There are even accounts of the English speaking German soldiers talking to the British ones, exchanging chocolate and cigarettes, singing together and warning each other in advance when they were going to shell each other so no one died.

This went on for years

None of the soldiers on either side wanted to be there, none of them wanted to kill the other, all of them knew how pointless their station was, all of them knew they couldn't actually advance due to their low numbers and no advantages for doing so and their command didn't expect or want them to.

This isnt new history and you arent special for reading a buzzfeed article.
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

Why didn't they just go home then

Because they had no choice.

At best they'd end up in prison, at worse they'd end up shot.

Hell the allied soldiers were in France, what even could they do?

MrBobGray posted...

This isnt new history

I never said it was, this is 100 years ago. I said no one talks about it.

and you arent special for reading a buzzfeed article.

I've never read Buzzfeed.

I didn't even know Buzzfeed covered WW1, I thought they covered like celebrity drinking habits.
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Karma: 19
Active Posts: 78

Ah, never mind.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

At best they'd end up in prison, at worse they'd end up shot.

Any country that would throw you in prison or shoot you for not wanting to sit in a ditch for a few years is not a country worth defending

Darklit_Minuet posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

At best they'd end up in prison, at worse they'd end up shot.

Any country that would throw you in prison or shoot you for not wanting to sit in a ditch for a few years is not a country worth defending

Ok.

That was literally every major nation in the world then not worth defending.

Italy literally pointed heavy machine guns at their own troops because their offenses failed so many times that there was legitimate concern that their forces would literally just revolt when ordered to do another push.

They would be massacred on the spot by their own men if they turned around or didn't charge.

That was the brainchild of Luigi 'If we are losing it just means our troops aren't trying hard enough' Cadorna
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