Current Events > Why do liberals wanna explode the minimum wage?

(+) Yeah! (+)

We can't be smarter or better! You can't and I can't! We stay the same for life!

You should look into welfare instead of the right.
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FluttershyPony posted...

>if we give noseberg mcgoldstein an extra 20billion in tax cuts, he MIGHT give give his workers an extra 50 bucks, and keep the 19.5 billion for himself and his stockholders
>"why not just use that money to increase wages"
>HURR DURR MUH THE PRICE OF MCDONALDS CHEESEBURGER WILL RISE BY 5000000% IF YOU DO THAT!!

Minimum wage should be 10cents an hour, that way our ps4 games will only cost 2 dollars!

Wow. With all the subtlety of an AR-15 fired in a library.

lightwarrior78 posted...

knuxnole posted...

bloodydeath0 posted...

knuxnole posted...

Becuause they'll never be good enough to be worth more than 7.25

You're under the impression most people can Improve or better themselves lol

They can

No they can't. Most people will stay the same for life.

Thats a myth.

As you know, not everyone can be smart, fit, or have ANy skills!

Thoughts like these are why I've been shifting right the last few years. At least they think we can be smarter and more capable as a species if we apply ourselves. It's naive, but shows hope for better The left seems to think we're stuck at our level of incompetence and we just need to keep us all alive. It shows fatalism rooted in fear of having to do more than you want to.

Too bad the right's ideas for increasing wealth for everyone don't work. Of course, neither do the left's.
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bloodydeath0 posted...

IllegalAlien posted...

The national minimum wage has increased about $2 since I was a kid. I believe my first job was at $5.25 an hour or so. However, inflation has increased at a much faster rate. $5 used to buy 5 Arby's sandwiches, now it might buy 2.

Ok

Sorry I tried to use small numbers and easy concepts to get the point across. Maybe even that failed.
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bloodydeath0 posted...

asagi_mode_gone posted...

People who will often make the decision to work, even if they have the options
A) don't work and die
Or
B) work for literal pennies an hour

The whole "not wanting to die" thing is generally a big motivator behind working low paying jobs. And if businesses had their way, they would pay pennies an hour. And they'd also ban any ability to negotiate for better wages. It hardly reflects the employee.

No one would accept a job like that. Thats not how it works.

if the choices were "work for 10 cents a day" or "starve to death", people would take the former.
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Agree. Working something is the main thing. A lot of people just take whatever they can get, settle and enjoy life.

We aren't high achievers, just simple humans living without needing to "contribute to society". That is overrated
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A lot of minimum wage workers dont realize that they could lose their job if they raised the min. wage to $15/hr.

While I think people putting in 40 hours of their lives every week deserves a good livable wage, you just can't change things like greed and their effect.

Just because CEOs get 500x regular employees doesn't mean they're going to give that up. The point of businesses is profit and efficiency, and achieving that is easier now more than ever before. Things like online shopping, automation and outsourcing are real threats, especially as more of the world becomes developed and educated, opening new pools of cheap labor.

This puts pressure on the small businesses, because corporations have the power to survive spikes. While I personally prefer corporations to small businesses, mostly due to a lack of professionalism on the latter, they are still very much needed in society.
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FFVII_REMAKE posted...

A lot of minimum wage workers dont realize that they could lose their job if they raised the min. wage to $15/hr.

So they are stuck with barely making ends meet for life. Guess we are thankful for welfare checks
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knuxnole posted...

FFVII_REMAKE posted...

A lot of minimum wage workers dont realize that they could lose their job if they raised the min. wage to $15/hr.

So they are stuck with barely making ends meet for life. Guess we are thankful for welfare checks

There are a lot of blue collar jobs out there that pay more such as working at a courier facility, delivery truck driver, public transportation, etc and they pay well.

Webmaster4531 posted...

We should be lowering full time to 30 so companies can't just higher multiple people working 39 hours.

That's not even how it works though, most companies can and will work you a full 40 hours a week but only claim you as "part-time status."

Then they cut you loose after pushing the boundaries of that rule.
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So, why can't we just make the minimum wage $100/hr so everyone is rich, again?
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r4X0r posted...

So, why can't we just make the minimum wage $100/hr so everyone is rich, again?

Why stop there? How about $100 a minute? Or $100 a second?

Or how about we try universal basic income?
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DoctorVader posted...

While I think people putting in 40 hours of their lives every week deserves a good livable wage, you just can't change things like greed and their effect.

Just because CEOs get 500x regular employees doesn't mean they're going to give that up. The point of businesses is profit and efficiency, and achieving that is easier now more than ever before. Things like online shopping, automation and outsourcing are real threats, especially as more of the world becomes developed and educated, opening new pools of cheap labor.

This puts pressure on the small businesses, because corporations have the power to survive spikes. While I personally prefer corporations to small businesses, mostly due to a lack of professionalism on the latter, they are still very much needed in society.

yes, businesses are profit-driven. that is a problem. someone getting rich while someone else does work is immoral.

small businesses shouldn't get special treatment either - they can be just as shitty and exploitative as large corporations, and are often actually worse to their employees. honestly, if a business can't afford to pay employees a livable wage, it deserves to fail.
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jumi posted...

r4X0r posted...

So, why can't we just make the minimum wage $100/hr so everyone is rich, again?

Why stop there? How about $100 a minute? Or $100 a second?

Or how about we try universal basic income?

UBI will not fix the problem

this article explains it really well
https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/universal-basic-income-is-a-neoliberal-plot-to-make-you-poorer/
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I wish we had universal based income

Do you know how AMAZING that would be?

Just think about going to the bank and you know how much money you making without fail. Perfect.
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knuxnole posted...

I wish we had universal based income

Do you know how AMAZING that would be?

Just think about going to the bank and you know how much money you making without fail. Perfect.

And then you realize that the UBI has become the new price baseline so just making that amount will no longer be enough to survive.
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So what's the best way to have money with no effort to survive? Welfare?
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knuxnole posted...

So what's the best way to have money with no effort to survive? Welfare?

being a landlord, CEO, or major shareholder
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averagejoel posted...

knuxnole posted...

So what's the best way to have money with no effort to survive? Welfare?

being a landlord, CEO, or major shareholder

That's too hard. I'll stick with my GameStop job. Or do welfare checks again.
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Annihilated posted...

knuxnole posted...

Other jobs require skills, hard work or effort

Wait, are we being trolled right now?

The same question we ask when you post.

And with you, it's not even a question.

I'm considered a liberal and I don't want a huge minimum wage. I do however want mandatory raises. Conservatives are all about people working towards a goal instead of being handed one. Have them max out after 5 years if you must, but there's no reason a person working 40 hours a week all year shouldn't get at least a 1 dollar raise every year. Tie it to hours worked directly so that people only there for weekends take longer and those willing to put in overtime reach it faster.

I got no problem letting people work for a higher hourly pay as a liberal, but its infuriating republicans don't even want to make it an option to be put on the table. I feel like it's a decent compromise that both sides would accept.
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I've never seen the argument for $15-20 as the base, normally I've seen $12-15. Which makes sense because if minimum wage had increased with cost of living, that is around where it would be today.
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loafy013 posted...

I've never seen the argument for $15-20 as the base, normally I've seen $12-15. Which makes sense because if minimum wage had increased with cost of living, that is around where it would be today.

That would make the minimum wage the same as some skilled jobs. Flipping a burger is not a $12-15 an hour job
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scorpion41 posted...

loafy013 posted...

I've never seen the argument for $15-20 as the base, normally I've seen $12-15. Which makes sense because if minimum wage had increased with cost of living, that is around where it would be today.

That would make the minimum wage the same as some skilled jobs. Flipping a burger is not a $12-15 an hour job

then increase their pay too. CEOs and shareholders could stand to be taken down a few (thousand) pegs
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scorpion41 posted...

loafy013 posted...

I've never seen the argument for $15-20 as the base, normally I've seen $12-15. Which makes sense because if minimum wage had increased with cost of living, that is around where it would be today.

That would make the minimum wage the same as some skilled jobs. Flipping a burger is not a $12-15 an hour job

I take it you have never worked a fast food or retail job, so have no idea what it actually entails. If it is such an easy, overpaid job, why aren't you doing it so you too can live the sweet life.
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IllegalAlien posted...

bloodydeath0 posted...

IllegalAlien posted...

The national minimum wage has increased about $2 since I was a kid. I believe my first job was at $5.25 an hour or so. However, inflation has increased at a much faster rate. $5 used to buy 5 Arby's sandwiches, now it might buy 2.

Ok

Sorry I tried to use small numbers and easy concepts to get the point across. Maybe even that failed.

He's a conservative, you can't use logic on them. Let him exist in his little bubble and continue to be wrong.
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loafy013 posted...

scorpion41 posted...

loafy013 posted...

I've never seen the argument for $15-20 as the base, normally I've seen $12-15. Which makes sense because if minimum wage had increased with cost of living, that is around where it would be today.

That would make the minimum wage the same as some skilled jobs. Flipping a burger is not a $12-15 an hour job

I take it you have never worked a fast food or retail job, so have no idea what it actually entails. If it is such an easy, overpaid job, why aren't you doing it so you too can live the sweet life.

1) Its an unskilled job. Anyone can do it, which is why its mainly done by high schoolers.

2) I have a real job.

3) I never said overpaid because its still less than $8 an hour. I said its not worth paying $12-15 an hour for.
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seeing as no one ripped my idea apart, does that mean its not trash or...
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loafy013 posted...

scorpion41 posted...

loafy013 posted...

I've never seen the argument for $15-20 as the base, normally I've seen $12-15. Which makes sense because if minimum wage had increased with cost of living, that is around where it would be today.

That would make the minimum wage the same as some skilled jobs. Flipping a burger is not a $12-15 an hour job

I take it you have never worked a fast food or retail job, so have no idea what it actually entails. If it is such an easy, overpaid job, why aren't you doing it so you too can live the sweet life.

He didn't say easy, he said unskilled.
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Makeveli_lives posted...

I'm considered a liberal and I don't want a huge minimum wage. I do however want mandatory raises. Conservatives are all about people working towards a goal instead of being handed one. Have them max out after 5 years if you must, but there's no reason a person working 40 hours a week all year shouldn't get at least a 1 dollar raise every year. Tie it to hours worked directly so that people only there for weekends take longer and those willing to put in overtime reach it faster.

I got no problem letting people work for a higher hourly pay as a liberal, but its infuriating republicans don't even want to make it an option to be put on the table. I feel like it's a decent compromise that both sides would accept.

Do you want mandatory raises for people who are working or just to the minimum wage across the board? If it's the former, all you would be doing is making one set of workers more expensive for doing the same work than another set of workers that would replace them. It's one thing to pay a senior employee more money because they're better at their job than the rest of the staff, it's another thing to pay them just because they've been doing the same thing for 5 years. The way I see it, more available jobs means more options to more people, and that gives employees more leverage.

I read a story recently about a guy who got out of prison after 10 years for a manslaughter charge, and he worked a $10 an hour job while living with his parents which allowed him to save money since he didn't have any rent to pay. With his criminal background, his employment prospects were definitely more limited, so he founded his own business with the money he saved and it turned out to be really successful. He then used that money to invest in property that he later leased out to a tenant for additional passive income. He's now in the 1%.

loafy013 posted...

scorpion41 posted...

loafy013 posted...

I've never seen the argument for $15-20 as the base, normally I've seen $12-15. Which makes sense because if minimum wage had increased with cost of living, that is around where it would be today.

That would make the minimum wage the same as some skilled jobs. Flipping a burger is not a $12-15 an hour job

I take it you have never worked a fast food or retail job, so have no idea what it actually entails. If it is such an easy, overpaid job, why aren't you doing it so you too can live the sweet life.

Would you please understand that pay is not determined by how "hard" the job is but rather how many other people can do it, and are willing to do it at a given wage? Hard labor is not the same as specialized labor, which is worth more.

People still talking about Norway like it's some kind of magical fantasy land.

Norway has about 5 million people, mostly white, mostly educated and they have a unwritten social contract to work hard.

The US has 330 million people, with millions of people on welfare. Millions of people who would rather have fun playing video games than work. Millions of millennials still living off of their parents. Millions of people who simply doesn't want to work and expect free things. There are too many lazy people dragging the rest of society down.

If you want the US to be like Norway, start fulfilling your social contract and work so everyone can benefit. There aren't a lot of rooms for leeches in Norway's socialist paradise, not to mention that very little innovation comes out of a nation like Norway.
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The people that make $1000000 an hour love the fact that they successfully turned the people that make $15 an hour against the people that make $8 an hour.
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CircleOfManias posted...

The people that make $1000000 an hour love the fact that they successfully turned the people that make $15 an hour against the people that make $8 an hour.

best post so far in this topic
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IllegalAlien posted...

bloodydeath0 posted...

IllegalAlien posted...

The national minimum wage has increased about $2 since I was a kid. I believe my first job was at $5.25 an hour or so. However, inflation has increased at a much faster rate. $5 used to buy 5 Arby's sandwiches, now it might buy 2.

Ok

Sorry I tried to use small numbers and easy concepts to get the point across. Maybe even that failed.

i'm literally the dumbest person to ever exist
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FluttershyPony posted...

>if we give noseberg mcgoldstein an extra 20billion in tax cuts, he MIGHT give give his workers an extra 50 bucks, and keep the 19.5 billion for himself and his stockholders
>"why not just use that money to increase wages"
>HURR DURR MUH THE PRICE OF MCDONALDS CHEESEBURGER WILL RISE BY 5000000% IF YOU DO THAT!!

Minimum wage should be 10cents an hour, that way our ps4 games will only cost 2 dollars!

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/238/153/e5b.jpg
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CircleOfManias posted...

The people that make $1000000 an hour love the fact that they successfully turned the people that make $15 an hour against the people that make $8 an hour.

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Wasn't the point of the minimum wage to give people a basic livable wage? :v If you can't live on minimum wage (without being below the poverty guidelines), isn't something off balance there?

I don't get how we expect people to be self-starters if they're forced to live pay check to pay check. If you're working two minimum wage jobs just to barely get by, how are you going to find the time to better yourself?
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averagejoel posted...

knuxnole posted...

So what's the best way to have money with no effort to survive? Welfare?

being a landlord, CEO, or major shareholder

Being a landlord takes no effort? LOL. What do you think happens when one of my tenants calls me up when something is wrong with the house? It just magically gets fixed?
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Wasn't the point of the minimum wage to give people a basic livable wage? :v If you can't live on minimum wage (without being below the poverty guidelines), isn't something off balance there?

I don't get how we expect people to be self-starters if they're forced to live pay check to pay check. If you're working two minimum wage jobs just to barely get by, how are you going to find the time to better yourself?

Why are you under the impression that unskilled labor is a career? Unskilled jobs are for unskilled people. If you want a real wage, you have to get a real job.
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r4X0r posted...

Why are you under the impression that unskilled labor is a career? Unskilled jobs are for unskilled people. If you want a real wage, you have to get a real job.

I never said it was a career. :v I'm saying that the minimum wage is supposed to be a livable wage. If you want more for yourself of course you're going to need a better job. But you still need to be able to survive with a stepping stone job or you can't afford to pay for any schooling.

If you have to choose between eating and taking a college class, which are you going to choose? It is a catch 22.
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Annihilated posted...

Do you want mandatory raises for people who are working or just to the minimum wage across the board? If it's the former, all you would be doing is making one set of workers more expensive for doing the same work than another set of workers that would replace them. It's one thing to pay a senior employee more money because they're better at their job than the rest of the staff, it's another thing to pay them just because they've been doing the same thing for 5 years. The way I see it, more available jobs means more options to more people, and that gives employees more leverage.

Turnover rate for "basic jobs" like fast food and super markets are pretty high, there's something to be said for someone who stays for 5 years. Besides even for skilled jobs, people get more money for simply being experienced all the time, why not do it for basic jobs?

And yeah the tasks may be the same but its not just burger flipping. After 5 years they should know how to effectively handle difficult customers, power outages, how to deal with natural disasters, etc.
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Patty_Fleur posted...

jumi posted...

Because that work full-time to make a living deserve an actual living wage.

Nobody deserves anything.

Government owes its citizens that much.
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Want to not be poor? Get a real job. if illegals can do it so can you. Theres no excuse to be an adult and working retail or not being in management.

OpheliaAdenade posted...

r4X0r posted...

Why are you under the impression that unskilled labor is a career? Unskilled jobs are for unskilled people. If you want a real wage, you have to get a real job.

I never said it was a career. :v I'm saying that the minimum wage is supposed to be a livable wage. If you want more for yourself of course you're going to need a better job. But you still need to be able to survive with a stepping stone job or you can't afford to pay for any schooling.

If you have to choose between eating and taking a college class, which are you going to choose? It is a catch 22.

Invent things, start a business or put money into mutual funds. Going to school is a great thing if you have the bread but come the fuck on
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The issue is that half of the country believes that people dont deserve the ability to afford the basic amenities to life. And theres definitely some credence there; people are stupid and bad with money and make poor life decisions.

The problem I have is that someone who makes their bed in retail, for instance, has to get up and go to work like anyone else. Excelling at those jobs takes experience, talent, and plenty of patience. The fact that they arent fairly compensated for that should be an issue to anyone.

But it could be that the American dream is simply dead. Families remain in the same households, for instance, all over the world. The trend driving wages down and pushing jobs away is just the consequence of our economic system at work. Can we truly do anything, or would measures just be stop gaps?
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Makeveli_lives posted...

Annihilated posted...

Do you want mandatory raises for people who are working or just to the minimum wage across the board? If it's the former, all you would be doing is making one set of workers more expensive for doing the same work than another set of workers that would replace them. It's one thing to pay a senior employee more money because they're better at their job than the rest of the staff, it's another thing to pay them just because they've been doing the same thing for 5 years. The way I see it, more available jobs means more options to more people, and that gives employees more leverage.

Turnover rate for "basic jobs" like fast food and super markets are pretty high, there's something to be said for someone who stays for 5 years. Besides even for skilled jobs, people get more money for simply being experienced all the time, why not do it for basic jobs?

And yeah the tasks may be the same but its not just burger flipping. After 5 years they should know how to effectively handle difficult customers, power outages, how to deal with natural disasters, etc.

Then it's just as I said. Such a case describes the former scenario I mentioned, in which the employee's seniority has intrinsic value and adds productivity compared to a new hire. High turnover is also a pretty good indicator that the employees are undervalued. If the employer has to spend time and resources recruiting, training, and filling positions while the business remains unproductive, then the wages must rise. It's not a question of obligation, but necessity for the business to survive or thrive. An employer DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT base their wages from any assumptions about their employee's financial needs or quality of life. As I mentioned in the case study in my last post, people can have a cornucopia of reasons for working a particular job or a particular wage. To assume their employees' social class is discriminatory and you can imagine all the problems that can arise from this line of thinking. It is fair for both the employer and employee to pay what the job is worth, no more and no less.

scorpion41 posted...

loafy013 posted...

scorpion41 posted...

loafy013 posted...

I've never seen the argument for $15-20 as the base, normally I've seen $12-15. Which makes sense because if minimum wage had increased with cost of living, that is around where it would be today.

That would make the minimum wage the same as some skilled jobs. Flipping a burger is not a $12-15 an hour job

I take it you have never worked a fast food or retail job, so have no idea what it actually entails. If it is such an easy, overpaid job, why aren't you doing it so you too can live the sweet life.

1) Its an unskilled job. Anyone can do it, which is why its mainly done by high schoolers.

2) I have a real job.

3) I never said overpaid because its still less than $8 an hour. I said its not worth paying $12-15 an hour for.

High schoolers AND adults who can't do any skills or don't have any, like many of the adults you see at McDonalds and Burger King.

And me, who's goal is to be at a minimum wage job fo life! Minimum wage jobs ARE real jobs and for a lot of people, the only jobs capable of getting!!!!
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Makeveli_lives posted...

Annihilated posted...

Do you want mandatory raises for people who are working or just to the minimum wage across the board? If it's the former, all you would be doing is making one set of workers more expensive for doing the same work than another set of workers that would replace them. It's one thing to pay a senior employee more money because they're better at their job than the rest of the staff, it's another thing to pay them just because they've been doing the same thing for 5 years. The way I see it, more available jobs means more options to more people, and that gives employees more leverage.

Turnover rate for "basic jobs" like fast food and super markets are pretty high, there's something to be said for someone who stays for 5 years. Besides even for skilled jobs, people get more money for simply being experienced all the time, why not do it for basic jobs?

And yeah the tasks may be the same but its not just burger flipping. After 5 years they should know how to effectively handle difficult customers, power outages, how to deal with natural disasters, etc.

I know people at grocery stores for 15+ years, McDonalds for 20+ years(my two aunts), my friend at Gamestop is there for his 12th year and counting, etc.
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