Current Events > My friend just came out as transgendered

(+) Yeah! (+)

I love the guy either way so I dont care. But he also mentioned being transgendered sucks. I am not happy with it, but I am happy being me

Got me thinking, do most transgendered people feel this way? Do they dislike being transgendered?

I think he/she is lost
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Just for future reference, generally "transgendered" is avoided in favor of "transgender." An adjective, not a verb.
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so now you can bang her feminine penis?

Antifar posted...

Just for future reference, generally "transgendered" is avoided in favor of "transgender." An adjective, not a verb.

Thanks for the education lesson on the appropriate grammar of how to refer to transgender individuals, we're all better off under your tutelage.

Serious
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Antifar posted...

Just for future reference, generally "transgendered" is avoided in favor of "transgender." An adjective, not a verb.

This doesn't really make a good point, and I don't see how it is really offensive one way or the other (or rather, you could make an argument either way). Kinda just puts people off from trying to talk about the subject.
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That is pretty much individual.
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Hairy-man posted...

Do they dislike being transgendered?

It's a medical disorder, it's natural that most people would dislike it.
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Would you like feeling like your body doesn't fit you? Seems like it'd suck to me. Plus, there's a lot of anti-trans sentiment in the world, some of which is very violent.

ElatedVenusaur posted...

Would you like feeling like your body doesn't fit you? Seems like it'd suck to me. Plus, there's a lot of anti-trans sentiment in the world, some of which is very violent.

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It is a pretty hard thing to determine. It basically puts you in the path of realizing that the way that you feel you need to be can only be grasped for, and never reached. In the case of spirituality, it makes you realize that you were formed to only feel incomplete forever, which is a painful realization.

You *can* overcome these. It is VERY hard to do so. Most trans end up with crippling anxiety and depression, because these are deep and troubling realizations that can't really be resolved in any kind of truly meaningful way. And this is entirely separate from external stresses related to this which are also pretty intense as well. These take a lot of time to work through, and it is a very personal journey for each to go on.

If you meet a truly confident and comfortable trans person, chances are they are one of the strongest people you can know.
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Hairy-man posted...

do most transgendered people feel this way? Do they dislike being transgendered?

Considering most suffer from gender dysphoria, I would image that's necessary the case.
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The Admiral posted...

Hairy-man posted...

Do they dislike being transgendered?

It's a medical disorder, it's natural that most people would dislike it.

Gender dysphoria is classified as the mental condition, and not all trans people suffer from it, and the demonization of mental health issues only further increases the stigmatization that the most vulnerable group in america at the moment has to endure.
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gunplagirl posted...

, and not all trans people suffer from it

How exactly is one trans without having gender dysphoria btw? This doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

gunplagirl posted...

, and not all trans people suffer from it

How exactly is one trans without having gender dysphoria btw? This doesn't make a lot of sense.

For one, transitioning and receiving proper care

And for two, trans as an umbrella term includes all those gender queer and gender fluid identities that CE absolutely hates
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

gunplagirl posted...

, and not all trans people suffer from it

How exactly is one trans without having gender dysphoria btw? This doesn't make a lot of sense.

Different people respond to situations differently. Gender dysphoria is generally diagnosed as an intense disgust at your own body being in the shape of your born gender. Notice how that is also a pretty loose definition, because that is also a very subjective feeling.

Some trans people transition because of what I call social dysphoria instead, which I would instead define as anxiety and disgust at being seen as and considered the gender that they were born into.

These can also totally overlap by the way. You can totally have both. But, only the first is medically recognized, which I have always considered a problem.
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gunplagirl posted...

The Admiral posted...

Hairy-man posted...

Do they dislike being transgendered?

It's a medical disorder, it's natural that most people would dislike it.

Gender dysphoria is classified as the mental condition, and not all trans people suffer from it, and the demonization of mental health issues only further increases the stigmatization that the most vulnerable group in america at the moment has to endure.

All transgender people suffer from believing they were born into the wrong body, which is a medical disorder. This is why it's treated with hormones and sometimes surgery, and why you've argued before that medical insurance should cover it. If they also suffer from gender dysphoria, that's a mental illness on top of the medical condition.
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gunplagirl posted...

For one, transitioning and receiving proper care

This is self defeating, since it means they did, in fact, experience gender dysphoria.

If you've never experienced gender dysphoria, I'm really reluctant to accept that you're really trans.
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The Admiral posted...

gunplagirl posted...

The Admiral posted...

Hairy-man posted...

Do they dislike being transgendered?

It's a medical disorder, it's natural that most people would dislike it.

Gender dysphoria is classified as the mental condition, and not all trans people suffer from it, and the demonization of mental health issues only further increases the stigmatization that the most vulnerable group in america at the moment has to endure.

All transgender people suffer from believing they were born into the wrong body, which is a medical disorder. This is why it's treated with hormones and sometimes surgery, and why you've argued before that medical insurance should cover it. If they also suffer from gender dysphoria, that's a mental illness on top of the medical condition.

And I am sure you understand the difference between a medical issue and a mental health issue? I'm sure you also know how the two are coded in the ICD-10 and the DSM-5?
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COVxy posted...

gunplagirl posted...

For one, transitioning and receiving proper care

This is self defeating, since it means they did, in fact, experience gender dysphoria.

If you've never experienced gender dysphoria, I'm really reluctant to accept that you're really trans.

Okay. Let's suppose you break a leg. We treat it. Set the bone, cast, keep elevated and treated, pills for infection, and it heals. You have a nifty little scar from the accident that caused it.

Gender dysphoria isn't permanent. And not all trans people need to have suffered it, mind you. People suffer it because they're trans. They aren't trans because they have gender dysphoria.
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@gunplagirl

i do not mean to be offensive here but i dont know any trans people irl so ive never had a chance to ask this.

but when someone who is trans says the identify as male/female (whatever the opposite sex is), what do they mean by that? like how do they define what male or female is?

say i am a bio male who likes make up, wearing dresses, shopping, cooking, chick flicks, am sexually attracted to men, etc (whatever stereotypical qualities are assigned to women). that wouldnt mean that i was actually a woman, it just means that i am interested in things that are normally associated with women.

so if your gender isnt based off of hobbies/interests/clothing/sexual attraction/etc, what is the actual foundation for what a trans person would base their gender on?
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Romulox28 posted...

@gunplagirl

i do not mean to be offensive here but i dont know any trans people irl so ive never had a chance to ask this.

but when someone who is trans says the identify as male/female (whatever the opposite sex is), what do they mean by that? like how do they define what male or female is?

say i am a bio male who likes make up, wearing dresses, shopping, cooking, chick flicks, am sexually attracted to men, etc (whatever stereotypical qualities are assigned to women). that wouldnt mean that i was actually a woman, it just means that i am interested in things that are normally associated with women.

so if your gender isnt based off of hobbies/interests/clothing/sexual attraction/etc, what is the actual foundation for what a trans person would base their gender on?

This is basically why I started talking about social gender dysphoria, because that would answer the question you are asking here. There is an intense feeling of disgust that you can get when you are reacted to in a way that does not correspond with how you feel yourself to be. The clothes and whatnot don't even factor in, it is mostly centered around how others act towards you.
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It's extremely difficult to explain to cis people as they never really need to experiment with it and see where they fit but I guess

Think of the existential crisis Ariel suffered early in the little mermaid. Wanting to be elsewhere, see more than she's ever seen, experience what she never will. That heart ache and pain and longing and desire for a sense of belonging. It's like that. Trans people like myself? Our brains show us these images and intrusive thoughts about how we SHOULD be, look and act. And dress because we get trained early to gender things like dresses as feminine and tuxedos as masculine. And wanting to emulate that is part of it. But mostly, just wanting to be considered a woman, and see that when we look down or at a reflection is what we desire. For some that includes downstairs and other procedures. For others it isn't such a large need at all.
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Hairy-man posted...

Got me thinking, do most transgendered people feel this way? Do they dislike being transgendered?

Hum , yeah.

The prevalence of suicide attempts among respondents
to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey
(NTDS), conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian
Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality,
is 41 percent, which vastly exceeds the 4.6 percent of
the overall U.S. population who report a lifetime suicide
attempt, and is also higher than the 10-20 percent
of lesbian, gay and bisexual adults who report ever
attempting suicide.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf
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smoliske posted...

Antifar posted...

Just for future reference, generally "transgendered" is avoided in favor of "transgender." An adjective, not a verb.

Thanks for the education lesson on the appropriate grammar of how to refer to transgender individuals, we're all better off under your tutelage.

if people on here would listen to actual transgender people and take a couple simple steps to educate themselves about pertinent issues, this wouldn't be necessary
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He cant accept himself for who he is or he cant accept himself for being a transgender?

fenderbender321 posted...

averagejoel posted...

smoliske posted...

Antifar posted...

Just for future reference, generally "transgendered" is avoided in favor of "transgender." An adjective, not a verb.

Thanks for the education lesson on the appropriate grammar of how to refer to transgender individuals, we're all better off under your tutelage.

if people on here would listen to actual transgender people and take a couple simple steps to educate themselves about pertinent issues, this wouldn't be necessary

We all learn it the same way. We say "transgendered" and then somebody says "whoa dude, don't say that...say transgender", and then we say "alrighty. Transgender. I like it."

I may have misinterpreted smoliske's post, but I read it as sarcastic
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Your friend doesn't feel happy being transgendered because he knows he is mentally ill. Many transgendered people know that they have a brain malfunction that forces them to desire having a different gender than what they have.
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Yeah it's normal, but other people have explained better than I can.
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Kind of related but my dad's friend recently came out as being gay. Never would have guessed. My dad doesn't want to hang out with him much anymore. At least you're still friends with him, TC.
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Siaperaz posted...

Your friend doesn't feel happy being transgendered because he knows he is mentally ill. Many transgendered people know that they have a brain malfunction that forces them to desire having a different gender than what they have.

No, that's not how this works. She already is a woman, mentally.
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I just said transgendered because thats the term he used on his Facebook post.

I dont mean to offend anyone
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gunplagirl posted...

Okay. Let's suppose you break a leg. We treat it. Set the bone, cast, keep elevated and treated, pills for infection, and it heals. You have a nifty little scar from the accident that caused it.

Yes, the person who broke their bone had a broken bone at one point. A person who is transgendered had gender dysphoria at some point.

Saying 'not all transgendered individuals experience gender dysphoria' simply gives people the idea that people are just bullshitting about their 'gender'.
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Hairy-man posted...

I just said transgendered because thats the term he used on his Facebook post.

I dont mean to offend anyone

It's okay!
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Hairy-man posted...

I just said transgendered because thats the term he used on his Facebook post.

I dont mean to offend anyone

No one is offended. Creepifar is a middle class white guy who has nothing to do but find things to be offended on the behalf of someone. Because eventually he'll white knight someone to give him affection since no one in his real life will after he spent years violating his "friends" privacy in order to post their pictures on ce for attention.
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COVxy posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Okay. Let's suppose you break a leg. We treat it. Set the bone, cast, keep elevated and treated, pills for infection, and it heals. You have a nifty little scar from the accident that caused it.

Yes, the person who broke their bone had a broken bone at one point. A person who is transgendered had gender dysphoria at some point.

Saying 'not all transgendered individuals experience gender dysphoria' simply gives people the idea that people are just bullshitting about their 'gender'.

gender dysphoria is common among transgender people, but it's not a defining characteristic
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averagejoel posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

averagejoel posted...

smoliske posted...

Antifar posted...

Just for future reference, generally "transgendered" is avoided in favor of "transgender." An adjective, not a verb.

Thanks for the education lesson on the appropriate grammar of how to refer to transgender individuals, we're all better off under your tutelage.

if people on here would listen to actual transgender people and take a couple simple steps to educate themselves about pertinent issues, this wouldn't be necessary

We all learn it the same way. We say "transgendered" and then somebody says "whoa dude, don't say that...say transgender", and then we say "alrighty. Transgender. I like it."

I may have misinterpreted smoliske's post, but I read it as sarcastic

me sarcastic? that's unpossible

averagejoel posted...

COVxy posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Okay. Let's suppose you break a leg. We treat it. Set the bone, cast, keep elevated and treated, pills for infection, and it heals. You have a nifty little scar from the accident that caused it.

Yes, the person who broke their bone had a broken bone at one point. A person who is transgendered had gender dysphoria at some point.

Saying 'not all transgendered individuals experience gender dysphoria' simply gives people the idea that people are just bullshitting about their 'gender'.

gender dysphoria is common among transgender people, but it's not a defining characteristic

It isn't?

Not even social dysphoria?
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averagejoel posted...

gender dysphoria is common among transgender people, but it's not a defining characteristic

Without gender dysphoria, how would anyone know that there's an issue?

It makes no sense. As someone who is not transgendered, I have no sense of my gender. None at all.
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Yeah, I'm confused now.
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This stuff is making me raise some questions, actually.

Can a mind have a "gender"? How do TG people define gender, if it is totally unrelated to the physical existence/world?
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Thelema posted...

This stuff is making me raise some questions, actually.

Can a mind have a "gender"? How do TG people define gender, if it is totally unrelated to the physical existence/world?

gender is mental and sex is physical. i just recently realized that I'm trans myself fairly recently so I'm "new"to it, so I can't really explain that well.
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who's alt is this ^

Link HT posted...

Hairy-man posted...

Got me thinking, do most transgendered people feel this way? Do they dislike being transgendered?

Hum , yeah.

The prevalence of suicide attempts among respondents
to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey
(NTDS), conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian
Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality,
is 41 percent, which vastly exceeds the 4.6 percent of
the overall U.S. population who report a lifetime suicide
attempt, and is also higher than the 10-20 percent
of lesbian, gay and bisexual adults who report ever
attempting suicide.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

It's on par with the suicide rates of people with the most extreme mental illnesses. People like negi and averagejoel like to hand wave this by claiming it's because of societal discrimination, but no other group that's been marginalized throughout modern history (including homosexuals, most recently) ever had depression and suicide rates near that.

Part of the suicide rate is certainly due to bigotry and lack of acceptance, but very likely the vast majority of it is due to the condition itself. Even after SRS and being placed in the most accepting environments, transgender suicide rates don't improve to anywhere close to normal levels.
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@gunplagirl posted...

But mostly, just wanting to be considered a woman, and see that when we look down or at a reflection is what we desire. For some that includes downstairs and other procedures. For others it isn't such a large need at all.

Do you think medical insurance/the state should finance gender reassignment procedures? Do you think that this is the correct medical treatment for some cases? Genuinely interested in your thoughts.

Aki_Narukami posted...

Thelema posted...

This stuff is making me raise some questions, actually.

Can a mind have a "gender"? How do TG people define gender, if it is totally unrelated to the physical existence/world?

gender is mental and sex is physical. i just recently realized that I'm trans myself fairly recently so I'm "new"to it, so I can't really explain that well.

Which makes me raise another question.
If gender is totally mental and sex is totally physical, we should have more transgendered people in the world. People's gender and sex would be totally random, the trans to cis people ratio would be 1:1. But that's clearly not the case. There is a link between gender and sex, and this is why most people are cis. Can't think of any other reason.
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Thelema posted...

Aki_Narukami posted...

Thelema posted...

This stuff is making me raise some questions, actually.

Can a mind have a "gender"? How do TG people define gender, if it is totally unrelated to the physical existence/world?

gender is mental and sex is physical. i just recently realized that I'm trans myself fairly recently so I'm "new"to it, so I can't really explain that well.

Which makes me raise another question.
If gender is totally mental and sex is totally physical, we should have more transgendered people in the world. People's gender and sex would be totally random, the trans to cis people ratio would be 1:1. But that's clearly not the case. There is a link between gender and sex, and this is why most people are cis. Can't think of any other reason.

That's a good question, but unfortunately I do not have an answer.
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