Current Events > What would've happened if Yoda and the council said no to Obi Wan about Anakin?

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LockeMonster
02/12/18 12:31:55 AM
#1:


If they denied Obi Wan from training Amakin.

Would the galaxy be where it currently is? What would have happened with Sidious, the Federation, the clones, etc?
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Questionmarktarius
02/12/18 12:43:45 AM
#2:


Palpy would have done it instead.
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BruceWayneJr
02/12/18 12:46:02 AM
#3:


I guess they would have dumped the kid off back with his mom and Sidious would eventually get a completely different apprentice. Or Sidious would scoop him up and train him in secret.
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Distant_Rainbow
02/12/18 1:12:02 AM
#4:


BruceWayneJr posted...
Or Sidious would scoop him up and train him in secret.


This, probably.

Palpatine did take an interest in Anakin once he heard that he'd single-handedly destroyed that Trade Fed warship. You can see that interest at the closing minutes of TPM, he tells him something like 'we should expect great things from you' or something.

If Anakin got rejected like that, his soul would be crushed. And Obi-wan is too much of a goody-goody to go against the Council and train him regardless. A dejected, disappointed, possibly angry Anakin would be the perfect kind of apprentice a Sith Lord would swoop in and take under his tutelage. Sidious would possibly intervene before Anakin was even sent back to Tatooine, simulating mock outrage that a boy is about to be sent back to slavery and that as Supreme Chancellor he could not possibly allow that.

After that it gets iffy. Possibly Anakin would be hidden in plain sight like Palpatine was, maybe as his errand boy, growing up to become one of the Chancellor's most trusted political aides. He'd be trained well in hiding his Dark side of the Force from the outside, so the Jedi would still think nothing of him, merely believing his continued presence on Coruscant as an act of charity from Palps. Since his identity is hidden, the subplot of Anakin approaching Padme with romance in mind could proceed as well 10 years later. Padme might possibly have doubts about Anakin since he's been influenced by the Sith for a long time by then, but she never really suspected Palpatine as more than an ambitious, power-hungry politician to the end, it's likely she won't see more from Dark!Anakin either. Possibly Palpatine would pick up Dooku as a placeholder apprentice since he might be required to spark off the Clone Wars, but only as a placeholder, nothing more. Though he'd live longer since he won't have a fatal confrontation against Anakin until the latter was fully trained and prepared, whereupon Dooku would probably be easily cut down from an unexpected attack.

The elimination of the Jedi is a more tricky issue. Without Jedi!Anakin to reveal Palpatine's identity to Windu, it's doubtful that the Jedi would attempt a pre-emptive strike first on their side, which means Palpatine would have no valid pretext to execute Order 66 in the first place. Most likely Palpatine would have tried to stretch the Clone Wars on as long as possible to thin the ranks of the Jedi, which were already quite depleted at the start of the PT in the first place(only a mere ten thousand in the entire galaxy, IIRC). Which would mean the eventual extinction of the Jedi and the formation of the Galactic Empire would take much, much longer than the sudden denouement that occurred canon-wise in RotS.

Extrapolating further from this point into the OT and beyond is difficult since there's now possibly many years of difference with canon lore, plus there are many possibilities as to how the Anakin-Padme subplot might proceed. There would possibly be a Rebellion, sure. But with the possibility of having no Luke nor Leia to aid them(and consequently no Han/Chewie either, likely), the first Death Star might just blast them to bits in the new ANH. The End.
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DoctorVader
02/12/18 1:25:16 AM
#5:


How much of the Plagueis stuff is canon?

Iirc, according to that it was pretty much inevitable. Plagueis and Sidious knew even when he was on Tatooine. Sidious would have trained him eventually even if neither Qui Gon nor Obi Wan interfered.

Though I might be totally off here, so others can correct me.
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RebelElite791
02/12/18 1:26:28 AM
#6:


DoctorVader posted...
How much of the Plagueis stuff is canon?

Iirc, according to that it was pretty much inevitable. Plagueis and Sidious knew even when he was on Tatooine. Sidious would have trained him eventually even if neither Qui Gon nor Obi Wan interfered.

Though I might be totally off here, so others can correct me.

Nothing other than that he was Sheev's master who he killed.
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BruceWayneJr
02/12/18 1:36:00 AM
#7:


It's nice to see how much thought you've put into it, Distant_Rainbow.

I'm a pretty big fan of the pre-Disney EU and folks tend to give it less weight than others, so you can take it or leave it, but some of it fleshes out how deep Sidious's plans are. As far as Palps and Ani goes, we're told that Sidious and Plagueis are made aware of Anakin's existence, his massive presence in the force, but Sidious doesn't encounter it until the end of TPM (Plagueis had already been murdered by that point). So I agree, Sidious would probably seek him out to capitalize on his power whether he was with the Jedi or not.

Obi-Wan pledged to Qui-Gon while he was near death that he would train Anakin. Just as well, Yoda feels an obligation to his old apprentice and that influenced his decision to let Obi-Wan go along with Qui-Gon's wishes. There's an EU comic (released by Disney) where Anakin expresses his desire to quit, and Obi-Wan tells Yoda that he would be obligated to follow Anakin and train him outside of the Jedi Order. "Extreme loyalty" is one of the themes of Star Wars and I think true blue Obi would have stuck to it no matter what.

From what we know of Darth Maul's background, he was snatched up as a child by Sidious, kept isolated and alone, and trained in the Sith ways behind the scenes while Palpatine was playing Naboo senator. I think Anakin would have suffered roughly the same fate, and his anger, alienation and lack of agency would have grown much in the same way that Maul's did. He would have become a lapdog much sooner than how he ended up in the OT and I don't think Padme would have entered into it at all. Sidious used their relationship to grow Anakin's dark side because he couldn't fully dominate the boy while he was with the Jedi. If he was training him directly, he could take a more direct approach.

Dooku was being "worked" by Palpatine before and during the events of TPM, and he already used him to murder the Jedi who commissioned the clone army and take over the project for themselves. Order 66 was in the works before Anakin entered the picture, and I think Sidious would have pulled it off later regardless of Ani's involvement. With the Jedi thrown into the middle of war and tethered to all the dicey decisions of Palpatine's republic, he could have framed them any number of ways.

You're right in the end though; without Luke and Leia, the galaxy would be totally fucked in the OT.
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BruceWayneJr
02/12/18 1:36:39 AM
#8:


RebelElite791 posted...
DoctorVader posted...
How much of the Plagueis stuff is canon?

Iirc, according to that it was pretty much inevitable. Plagueis and Sidious knew even when he was on Tatooine. Sidious would have trained him eventually even if neither Qui Gon nor Obi Wan interfered.

Though I might be totally off here, so others can correct me.

Nothing other than that he was Sheev's master who he killed.


Wrong. None of it's been overwritten.
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RebelElite791
02/12/18 1:41:44 AM
#9:


BruceWayneJr posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
DoctorVader posted...
How much of the Plagueis stuff is canon?

Iirc, according to that it was pretty much inevitable. Plagueis and Sidious knew even when he was on Tatooine. Sidious would have trained him eventually even if neither Qui Gon nor Obi Wan interfered.

Though I might be totally off here, so others can correct me.

Nothing other than that he was Sheev's master who he killed.


Wrong. None of it's been overwritten.

That isn't how canon works, rando alt.
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BruceWayneJr
02/12/18 1:49:49 AM
#10:


RebelElite791 posted...
BruceWayneJr posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
DoctorVader posted...
How much of the Plagueis stuff is canon?

Iirc, according to that it was pretty much inevitable. Plagueis and Sidious knew even when he was on Tatooine. Sidious would have trained him eventually even if neither Qui Gon nor Obi Wan interfered.

Though I might be totally off here, so others can correct me.

Nothing other than that he was Sheev's master who he killed.


Wrong. None of it's been overwritten.

That isn't how canon works, rando alt.


"Rando alt"? lol, wtf? Paranoid much?

And yeah, that is how it works. KotOR still exists because nothing's contradicted it. The Clone Wars still exists because nothing's contradicted. The Darth Plagueis novel still exists because nothing has been overwritten. As soon as those things are overwritten, that becomes the new canon.
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Foppe
02/12/18 1:57:41 AM
#11:


Clone Wars is still canon, because of Word of God.
The Darth Plagueis novel and KoToR are not canon because of Word of God.
Could events have happened like they did in KoToR and the Plagueis novel? Yes, because nothing contradicts it yet, but that doesnt make it canon. They belong to the Extended Universe, which is not canon.
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BruceWayneJr
02/12/18 2:00:50 AM
#12:


Foppe posted...
Clone Wars is still canon, because of Word of God.
The Darth Plagueis novel and KoToR are not canon because of Word of God.
Could events have happened like they did in KoToR and the Plagueis novel? Yes, because nothing contradicts it yet, but that doesnt make it canon. They belong to the Extended Universe, which is not canon.


Wtf does Word of God mean? Get real. Large swaths of the original EU hasn't been touched yet by Disney. Until that happens, it's fair game. Otherwise, show me this Word of God that proves otherwise.
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RebelElite791
02/12/18 2:01:59 AM
#13:


BruceWayneJr posted...
"Rando alt"? lol, wtf? Paranoid much?

And yeah, that is how it works. KotOR still exists because nothing's contradicted it. The Clone Wars still exists because nothing's contradicted. The Darth Plagueis novel still exists because nothing has been overwritten. As soon as those things are overwritten, that becomes the new canon.

I assume you're an alt as I've never seen you and you don't know who you're talking to apparently.

That is not how canon works. The only canon is The OT, the PT, TCW movie and show, Son of Dathomir, and (almost) everything from 2014 onwards. KOTOR is not canon. Plagueis novel is not canon.

As of April 25, 2014, the only previously published materials that are considered canon are the six Star Wars films, the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film, and the stand-alone Dark Horse Comics arc Star Wars: Darth MaulSon of Dathomir. Meanwhile, the Expanded Universe is no longer considered canon and was re-termed as the "Legends" brand. Most Star Wars material released after April 25, 2014with some exceptionsis composed in collaboration with the Lucasfilm Story Group, making it part of the "new canon."

So basically shut the fuck up.
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BruceWayneJr
02/12/18 2:03:50 AM
#14:


RebelElite791 posted...
BruceWayneJr posted...
"Rando alt"? lol, wtf? Paranoid much?

And yeah, that is how it works. KotOR still exists because nothing's contradicted it. The Clone Wars still exists because nothing's contradicted. The Darth Plagueis novel still exists because nothing has been overwritten. As soon as those things are overwritten, that becomes the new canon.

I assume you're an alt as I've never seen you and you don't know who you're talking to apparently.

That is not how canon works. The only canon is The OT, the PT, TCW movie and show, Son of Dathomir, and (almost) everything from 2014 onwards. KOTOR is not canon. Plagueis novel is not canon.

As of April 25, 2014, the only previously published materials that are considered canon are the six Star Wars films, the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film, and the stand-alone Dark Horse Comics arc Star Wars: Darth MaulSon of Dathomir. Meanwhile, the Expanded Universe is no longer considered canon and was re-termed as the "Legends" brand. Most Star Wars material released after April 25, 2014with some exceptionsis composed in collaboration with the Lucasfilm Story Group, making it part of the "new canon."

So basically shut the fuck up.


Ha, go fuck yourself, message board celebrity. The Clone Wars builds off of stuff like the Darth Plagueis novel and fucking KotOR. You can pretend one exists independently of the other if you want to, but the elements are still there.
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Foppe
02/12/18 2:07:11 AM
#15:


BruceWayneJr posted...
Foppe posted...
Clone Wars is still canon, because of Word of God.
The Darth Plagueis novel and KoToR are not canon because of Word of God.
Could events have happened like they did in KoToR and the Plagueis novel? Yes, because nothing contradicts it yet, but that doesnt make it canon. They belong to the Extended Universe, which is not canon.


Wtf does Word of God mean? Get real. Large swaths of the original EU hasn't been touched yet by Disney. Until that happens, it's fair game. Otherwise, show me this Word of God that proves otherwise.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod
Disney said that EU is not canon, thereby EU is not canon.
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DrizztLink
02/12/18 2:07:19 AM
#16:


He's going with the "reality fits my opinion" brand of shitposting.

Move along.
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Medussa
02/12/18 2:08:00 AM
#17:


Canon can work the way you describe (it's basically how Trek treats The Animated Series), but it doesn't for Star Wars. Disney said almost all the side stuff was gone, so it's gone until they decide to bring it back.
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