Current Events > Luke was also a Mary Sue

(+) Yeah! (+)

nt
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Luke didn't have a lightsaber battle for a movie and a half and it ended up with him losing a hand

Rey beat the Dark Lord's apprentice after a weekend of holding one.
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Fishy posted...

Luke didn't have a lightsaber battle for a movie and a half and it ended up with him losing a hand

Rey beat the Dark Lord's apprentice after a weekend of holding one.

He was tired and wounded by Chewie's crossbow

TFA spoilers wasnt kylo ren trying to hold in his guts

No he wasn't. Dude struggled for every little victory he got, almost always had help or was out right saved in victory and still failed multiple times.
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FaultyGourry posted...

No he wasn't. Dude struggled for every little victory he got, almost always had help or was out right saved in victory and still failed multiple times.

I mean, he had little to no training and kinda just stumbled into victory throughout the movies.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

He was tired and wounded by Chewie's crossbow

It was literally her first lightsaber fight.

I bet even after smoking five or six fools Usain Bolt could still lap your average CEman with no training

COVxy posted...

I mean, he had little to no training and kinda just stumbled into victory throughout the movies

He trained with both Kenobi and Yoda before ever going near Vader???
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The Kylo/Rey fight scene in TFA would be like some CEman traveling to South Korea this week for the Olympics, competing in a sport they played once or twice, and winning a gold medal against athletes who'd been training their entire lives.

It's not only a horrendous message to send to people, it's garbage writing. This was made even worse in TLJ, which basically shits on everything the Jedi Order established about the need to train and exert discipline to master the force. That was apparently all a waste of time. All you need is girl power, and even the untrained daughter of space trailer trash can best galactic masters.
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Fishy posted...

He trained with both Kenobi and Yoda before ever going near Vader???

"Trained with yoda" is spending a few days or so getting passive aggressive remarks from a monk who didn't want to train anyone.

The closest thing we get to seeing training with Obi Wan is with the robot laser things on the way from one planet to another. And in that scene, he sucks ass in the first 30 seconds, and then is a jedi master within the next 30 seconds.

We really didn't get much in the way of extensive training until the prequels. It didn't even really seem like being a jedi required much training, more-so it required fate.
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COVxy posted...

Fishy posted...

He trained with both Kenobi and Yoda before ever going near Vader???

"Trained with yoda" is spending a few days or so getting passive aggressive remarks from a monk who didn't want to train anyone.

The closest thing we get to seeing training with Obi Wan is with the robot laser things on the way from one planet to another.

He also got his ass kicked, which is what we'd expect from someone without proper training.

This lack of training was apparently not an issue in TFA and TLJ.
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TLJ : She also saved Kylo from being choked out by a Praetorian guard in the latest one. So yeah, she is the worst mary sue in cinematic history.

She is basically what people think of Jedi if they only have experience of them in video games and with the absurd EU feats from the books. She might as well be Starkiller.
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COVxy posted...

FaultyGourry posted...

No he wasn't. Dude struggled for every little victory he got, almost always had help or was out right saved in victory and still failed multiple times.

I mean, he had little to no training and kinda just stumbled into victory throughout the movies.

A Mary Sue doesn't struggle and stumble to victory. They achieve victory because they're just that naturally talent and damn near perfect. Luke trained with people far better than him in the force and still made poor decisions and got his ass kicked. Unlike a certain someone, if the other characters in the original trilogy weren't there, Luke would have been dead multiple times over.
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Time for your weekly Star Wars Mary Sue topic

God, I despise the term Mary Sue
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Are we gonna act like Rey didn't struggle at all?
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I don't have an issue with Rey beating Kylo in a sword fight. She's clearly been training with a staff for most of her life, and Kylo was badly injured with a bowcaster shot.

Her mastering the Jedi mind trick mere minutes after learning about it is suspect though.
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He really wasn't though
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Banjo2553 posted...

She's clearly been training with a staff for most of her life

If you think a bowstaff prepares you to use a fucking light saber and not cut your arm off . . . just wow.
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Luke was Harry Potter, and Rey was Fanfic Harry Potter.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Banjo2553 posted...

She's clearly been training with a staff for most of her life

If you think a bowstaff prepares you to use a fucking light saber and not cut your arm off . . . just wow.

I...hm. I was gonna say she was careful and didn't try to do anything flashy because of that but I don't remember everything about the fight. I just remember thinking while watching it "wow, there's no ridiculously flashy choreography here like the prequels."
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Electrokinesis posted...

Luke was Harry Potter, and Rey was Fanfic Harry Potter.

Luke was book Jon Snow and Rey was show Jon Snow
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FaultyGourry posted...

No he wasn't. Dude struggled for every little victory he got, almost always had help or was out right saved in victory and still failed multiple times.

This.
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Veggeta_EDGE posted...

Are we gonna act like Rey didn't struggle at all?

She really didn't.
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darkjedilink posted...

Veggeta_EDGE posted...

Are we gonna act like Rey didn't struggle at all?

She really didn't.

I mean it was thanks to

Fin that she was alive

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Veggeta_EDGE posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Veggeta_EDGE posted...

Are we gonna act like Rey didn't struggle at all?

She really didn't.

I mean it was thanks to

Fin that she was alive

Not really.
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Yes really.

Kylo force pushed her into unconsciousness and he would have had his way with her if not for Fin being there to fight Kylo and let Rey get back up
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worth noting that luke has a throwaway line about already being a ridiculous shot (and that being his one useful skill)

i felt like that was somewhat intended to be the bo-fighting analogue with rey

but they threw in piloting, using the mind trick untrained, resisting the mind probe, on top of the lightsaber combat

and basically TFA felt like there wasn't too much room for the hero to grow because she started out where luke was at in the third movie
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TLJ is the embodiment of participation trophies for today's youth.

"We don't want to hurt feelings, every one is great. You can be whatever you want as long as you just stand there and do nothing to contribute. You don't even need to practice!"

It's literally the fuck up, move up you see in reality.

It's the nepotism of people who get hired for promotions based on who you know without actually proving your worth.

Luke was never a mary sue. He got hosed so hard in TLJ.

The longer the time has passed since TLJ the more I see how poor it really was.
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Veggeta_EDGE posted...

Yes really.

Kylo force pushed her into unconsciousness and he would have had his way with her if not for Fin being there to fight Kylo and let Rey get back up

'His way' being 'take her alive and unharmed to Snoke.'
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Doesn't change the fact that if she was truly a Mary Sue should wouldn't have gotten KO
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Rey hasn't earned a goddamn thing. All she does is clog store pegs, like most of the new Star Wars action figure characters.
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Veggeta_MAX posted...

Doesn't change the fact that if she was truly a Mary Sue should wouldn't have gotten KO

No true mary sue fallacy.
Why does every defense of a shit character come down to, "it's not the absolute literal in Star Trek fan fict use of the term so it doesn't apply."
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Tbh they made Luke almost too weak in the ot imo. I mean, his prowess was mainly in the x wing/ships and being resilient. He was obviously gonna be good with ships since he had been fucking around with them all his life.
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Luke shot a torpedo through a 3 meter hole and made it curve immediately downwards after doing so without using a guidance computer, and having only been told what the force is and with no experience having ever used it.
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DeathByMusic68 posted...

Luke shot a torpedo through a 3 meter hole and made it curve immediately downwards after doing so without using a guidance computer, and having only been told what the force is and with no experience having ever used it.

It's almost like foreshadowing justifies later actions and events . . .
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Veggeta_MAX posted...

Doesn't change the fact that if she was truly a Mary Sue should wouldn't have gotten KO

Can't admit you're wrong about her being in mortal danger, huh?
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Veggeta_MAX posted...

Doesn't change the fact that if she was truly a Mary Sue should wouldn't have gotten KO

No true mary sue fallacy.
Why does every defense of a shit character come down to, "it's not the absolute literal in Star Trek fan fict use of the term so it doesn't apply."

So we've been using Mary Sue wrong?
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

DeathByMusic68 posted...

Luke shot a torpedo through a 3 meter hole and made it curve immediately downwards after doing so without using a guidance computer, and having only been told what the force is and with no experience having ever used it.

It's almost like foreshadowing justifies later actions and events . . .

So that makes it okay to be perfect.
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darkjedilink posted...

Veggeta_MAX posted...

Doesn't change the fact that if she was truly a Mary Sue should wouldn't have gotten KO

Can't admit you're wrong about her being in mortal danger, huh?

Mary Sues don't get into danger.
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darkjedilink posted...

Can't admit you're wrong about her being in mortal danger, huh?

Remember when she woke up before Kylo and instead of mercing him, inexplicably left him? It was just after she beat him in a force battle for a light saber.

LOL god damn the shit writing annoys me more and more every time I think about it.
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Meh, I would agree with you if they hadn't established firmly within his character what his limitations are. He never even understood the force or what it could do, and it literally took ghost obi ramming it into his head to shut up and let it do his thing. (As well as lots of interventions.) Playing a critical role is expected. If he had been Rey, he would have flown off for the first time, shot down all the ties, defeated Vader's ship, then flown down the tube to ensure torpedo delivery and flown back out.

That's literally just the first movie and that's pmuch the equivalent of what Rey did in hers.
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Motherfuckers are out of their minds. Luke was only a good pilot through the first two movies and it was an explicitly informed skill where he even chumped the experienced rebels during a mission briefing saying he could easily hit a small target.

He wasn't good with any Jedi skills and was shown to fail his training on screen. He couldn't even fight like most other normal people could which was shown several times as well. Rey was a martial arts master, ace pilot, top tier powerful force user and expert duelist all in her first movie as soon as any scene called for action.
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BlueBoy675 posted...

Electrokinesis posted...

Luke was Harry Potter, and Rey was Fanfic Harry Potter.

Luke was book Jon Snow and Rey was show Jon Snow

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Darksaber310 posted...

Meh, I would agree with you if they hadn't established firmly within his character what his limitations are. He never even understood the force or what it could do, and it literally took ghost obi ramming it into his head to shut up and let it do his thing. (As well as lots of interventions.) Playing a critical role is expected. If he had been Rey, he would have flown off for the first time, shot down all the ties, defeated Vader's ship, then flown down the tube to ensure torpedo delivery and flown back out.

That's literally just the first movie and that's pmuch the equivalent of what Rey did in hers.

It wasn't even an impossible shot for regular rebel pilots, just a tough one. They didn't attack with the preface that "only a force user can save us."
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Darksaber310 posted...

Meh, I would agree with you if they hadn't established firmly within his character what his limitations are. He never even understood the force or what it could do, and it literally took ghost obi ramming it into his head to shut up and let it do his thing. (As well as lots of interventions.) Playing a critical role is expected. If he had been Rey, he would have flown off for the first time, shot down all the ties, defeated Vader's ship, then flown down the tube to ensure torpedo delivery and flown back out.

That's literally just the first movie and that's pmuch the equivalent of what Rey did in hers.

Did we watch the same movies? Rey makes a scrappy escape while piloting the Falcon, but Finn does the shooting in that scene and they barely manage to run away from a couple of common TIE fighters. Poe is the character who does everything you described.
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Fony posted...

Rey was a martial arts master, ace pilot, top tier powerful force user and expert duelist all in her first movie as soon as any scene called for action.

She's one of the worst protagonists I've seen in a movie.
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Funbazooka posted...

Fony posted...

Rey was a martial arts master, ace pilot, top tier powerful force user and expert duelist all in her first movie as soon as any scene called for action.

She's one of the worst protagonists I've seen in a movie.

Yea and this is before any training in any of these things despite growing up as a junk rat on a crappy world scavenging for food. She even overpowered Kylo Ren with Psychic powers who had been trained by Luke from a baby and mentored by Snoke...LMAO!
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Fuck no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE2at2Wo9sU
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

It wasn't even an impossible shot for regular rebel pilots, just a tough one. They didn't attack with the preface that "only a force user can save us."

eh, attacking the Death Star with snub fighters was pretty much their only option with a gazillion-to-one odds of actually hitting the target

so yeah, they may not have said "only the force can save us" but it's heavily implied to be a last ditch, suicide mission
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