Current Events > Been playing Pokemon Gen 1 in its original Japanese. Here's what I've learned.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Preface: A friend decided she wanted to try and teach herself Japanese, so I'm joining her to help keep her honest and on track so she doesn't give up. Note that I have zero interest in the language and dislike the notion of being labeled a weeb/otaku/baka gaijin, but I'm "learning" my own way while she does phone apps/duolingo and the like.

In just 10 hours of played time I can read Katakana and Hiragana with 100% accuracy, though I'm noticing that there are no Kanji in the entire game which makes it tough for one with limited vocab (me) to figure out what's an actual word vs what's "grammar" and particles. I'm also through the 3rd Gym and have been limiting myself to 1 gym a day as to not burn out on reading while also letting things sink in while I go learn other things on the side.

ANYWAY 3 gyms in, here's some peculiar/interesting things about Pokemon Gen 1 played in its native language.

People
- "Youngster" type trainers are called "" (tanpan kozou) which roughly translates out to "Shorts Boy." Conveniently, one of the first ones you encounter is the infamous "they're comfy and easy to wear!" trainer. However, in the Japanese text he says something along the lines of "It's easy to move in shorts! Why don't you wear them?" which is less entertaining, but makes WAY more sense than what we got given the context.
- "Lass" type trainers are straight up called " (minisukaato) or "Miniskirt."
- "Jr. Trainer" type trainers are called "" (booisukauto) or "" (guurusukauto) for males/females, respectively, which clearly say Boy Scout/Girl Scout.
- Lt. Surge, being the "Lightning American," speaks partly in English (via Katakana) which is pretty cool, but for no real reason a lot of his grammatical particles are changed to Katakana despite being 100% Japanese.

Pokemon
- A lot of Pokemon names are incredibly boring to us English speakers, while others seem like they'd get a real groan from native Japanese speakers. Actual "interesting" names are far and few between and so far I think the English localization has many more "clever" poke names than the Japanese.
- Disappointing "english" names include "Sando" (Sandshrew), "Lizard" (Charmeleon), "Pidgeon" (Pidgeotto), "Rat" (Raticate), "Sleep" (Drowzee), and "Showers" (Vaporeon). I'm sure these sounded quite exotic to Japanese people in the early 1990s before the internet, but today they're a huge yawn.
- Some names got direct or near-direct translations such as Starmie, Pikachu, Raichu, Caterpie, Weedle, and many others that "just worked"
- Not knowing much Japanese, even I can tell that "Onisuzume" (Spearow) which roughly works out to "Demon Sparrow" is a lazy-ass name that's right on up there with "Seel" and "Krabby."
- Ekans miraculously has its gimmick preserved, being called "Aabo" which, syllable for syllable, works out as "Boa" spelled backwards.
- Arbok didn't fare so well, "Aabokku" which barely comes out as "Koboa" unless you REALLY want to force it to "Kobora" but there's not exactly an "R" syllable to play around with.
- The Abra/Kadabra (haven't seen Alakazam yet but I'm not looking ahead, preferring to learn them as I encounter them) line is strange... Each so far is "kind of" named after a famous real-life "psychic" which is sort of clever, but I think the English names fit a lot better than "Casey" and "Yungeraa" (Edgar Cayce, Uri Geller)

My next post will talk about moves and other things I find interesting in the JP version.
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Moves
- Unlike the Pokemon names, it seems like most of the attacks/moves in the game are pretty straightforward and didn't try too hard to be "cool" with the "exotic" gratuitous English. There are exceptions, but limited and imo tasteful.
- Thundershock gets the semi-english treatment. "denki shokku" (electric shock) gets a free pass in my book since it's pretty convincing.
- Teleport gets the full English treatment while simultaneously being one syllable away from the Japanese "Save" option. "terepo-to" (and likewise, "report"). Meh.
- I honestly haven't yet encountered many moves that are truly bad, but some of the translations are very unlike the English counterparts. What we know as "Confusion" works out roughly to "mental power" which seems better and worse in its own ways.
- TMs are pretty much 100% straight up "Technique Machines" which I think is slightly better than "Technical Machines" which sounds a bit misleading.

Other
- LOL @ the laziness of the badge names. So far I've earned a Gray badge, a Blue badge, and an Orange badge. I think the English localization crew needs a big high-five for being more creative with their badge names.
- The city names are every bit as good as the English localized ones, which doesn't exactly change anything but oh well.
- No idea on the Gym leaders, but limited reading and research suggests that at lest Brock (Takeshi) and Misty (Kasumi) have relatively clever names while Lt. Surge got shafted with a dumb name (Machisu?) which I'm sure makes more sense to experienced Japanese readers but tbh I don't understand unless they're calling him "cheese" or something ridiculous.
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I played Black/White in Japanese when I was studying the language in college. Was interesting but very difficult to understand some of the grammar particles like you said.

I wanted to read through what you wrote but it's too long/fairly common knowledge for more in depth fans, so I didn't read all the way through. My guess for Lt. surge is that it's based off the American word machismo maybe.

Also fun fact regarding lazy Pokemon names, Umbreon's name in Japanese is just Blacky lol.
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I have nothing to contribute but enjoyed reading through all of that
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ForestLogic posted...

fairly common knowledge for more in depth fans

Perhaps. One thing I had my mind blown away by was realizing that "Purin" (Jigglypuff), when pronounced PROPERLY unlike how most English speakers are inclined to say it, makes WAY more sense and is surprisingly NOT as lazy as "eh we'll just call it Jigglypuff I guess" but it really took me a few times saying it out loud before I "got" what it's MEANT to be for real.

Little moments like that make the reading hardships worth it.
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That was a good read.

I don't thiiink they're calling him cheese? I think that's chizu, not chisu. I do recall the word for map being similar or identical to the word for cheese.
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YonicBoom posted...

- Lt. Surge, being the "Lightning American," speaks partly in English (via Katakana) which is pretty cool, but for no real reason a lot of his grammatical particles are changed to Katakana despite being 100% Japanese.

That's actually extremely common with characters that are supposed to be foreigners.
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I believe Lt. Surge's Japanese name has been romanticized to "Matis".
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Kadabra being named after Uri Gellar caused some shitstorm a while ago. He sued Nintendo for using his name and image without permission. I don't recall all the details of the case, but apparently that's the reason Kadabra cards are no longer in the TCG
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DarkDragon400 posted...

That's actually extremely common with characters that are supposed to be foreigners.

Huh, I was trying to avoid thinking there might be some racial undertones to the whole thing but I suppose it's not terribly different from how (supposedly) certain age/gender demographics will tend towards certain mannerisms, at least in media. Hard to tell what's "real" vs what's ridiculous because this is my only focused exposure to the language so far.

I'm working through a grammar website so I can start making sense of what's happening. While I'm already starting to identify patterns and such, I'm convinced that the lack of Kanji creating natural "breaks" in sentences is a larger nightmare than simply learning the damn Kanji. As I familiarize myself with more of the particles and grammatical things this will become easier, but I'll probably be through the entire game at that point.
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YonicBoom posted...

ForestLogic posted...

fairly common knowledge for more in depth fans

Perhaps. One thing I had my mind blown away by was realizing that "Purin" (Jigglypuff), when pronounced PROPERLY unlike how most English speakers are inclined to say it, makes WAY more sense and is surprisingly NOT as lazy as "eh we'll just call it Jigglypuff I guess" but it really took me a few times saying it out loud before I "got" what it's MEANT to be for real.

Little moments like that make the reading hardships worth it.

Yeah, the announcer in Smash Melee pronounces it as "purrin", and I always thought that was a weird name. Then when I learned Japanese and realized Jigg's name is literally just the word pudding, I was like wtf Japan lol.
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I remember the Japanese Red/Blue/Green graphics being better than the US ones. That always baffled me. (Mostly with Pokemon sprites.)

YonicBoom posted...

Other
- LOL @ the laziness of the badge names. So far I've earned a Gray badge, a Blue badge, and an Orange badge. I think the English localization crew needs a big high-five for being more creative with their badge names.

To be fair, you can argue it matches the "color" theme of the Kanto region: Pewter, Cerulean, Vermilion, etc., are shades of colors corresponding to the respective Japanese Badges. Pallet Town is the main exception though that can be argued as a homophone of "palette".

Though at the same time Pewter, Cerulean, etc. weren't used in the Japanese version to my memory, in favor of different names. Kinda interesting imo that in the Japanese version the Badges followed a color scheme, and the cities in the US version.
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YonicBoom posted...

Huh, I was trying to avoid thinking there might be some racial undertones to the whole thing but I suppose it's not terribly different from how (supposedly) certain age/gender demographics will tend towards certain mannerisms, at least in media. Hard to tell what's "real" vs what's ridiculous because this is my only focused exposure to the language so far.

from my experience it's generally meant as a sort of stilted / less natural speech and is commonly used for foreigners since they can't speak as well? although there's definitely some level of caricature to it because it still happens sometimes when the rest of their speech is entirely normal.

robots also sometimes have this, or even more annoying just talk 100% in katakana.

also yeah most jp pokemon names are pretty lame
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tag
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YonicBoom posted...

- The Abra/Kadabra (haven't seen Alakazam yet but I'm not looking ahead, preferring to learn them as I encounter them) line is strange... Each so far is "kind of" named after a famous real-life "psychic" which is sort of clever, but I think the English names fit a lot better than "Casey" and "Yungeraa" (Edgar Cayce, Uri Geller)

IIRC, Alakazam is named "Hudin", after Harry Houdini.
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I'll be continuing this thread tomorrow, I'm taking the day off playing Pokemon to study some Kanji.
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Showers
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I always enjoy these sorts of fun efforts (whether as something just for fun or as practice on the side of learning or to keep up a language). I've never done anything like this yet with Japanese, which I only started learning seriously last year, but I've done it with Korean.

A really great convenience was that Nintendo DS (unlike most game consoles and portables at that point) and its games were not region-specific. I was able to buy some games in Korea and play them on my DS, the only difference being that they are in Korean. I think my favorite is Super Mario 64 DS in Korean. Obviously it is not a text-heavy game, but it does have some.

At various times in and out of Korea I've used other devices and software in Korean, including Facebook, iPods, cell phones (Korean phones in Korea), and GPS navigation for driving. I find that engaging in practical tasks with a language outside of instructional settings is good for conditioning your brain to deal with the language.
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Seems like a lot of work for someone with supposedly zero interest in the language.
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1337toothbrush posted...

Seems like a lot of work for someone with supposedly zero interest in the language.

Honestly, it doesn't feel like much work. It's almost like a game of its own learning new words and grammar rules which make it continuously easier to learn the next thing. I've never had any interest in any languages whatsoever so this is really my first foray into it and honestly, if I took up Spanish or something which didn't have the "you have to learn how to read all over again" factor I might be fairly decent in a year's time.

Anyways, today's post is brought to you by screenshots!


There's not much notable in this image besides the fact that [Pikachu] and [Zubatto] are identical to the names we received in the US localization. However...


Hoo boy. [Onidoriru/Onidrill] and [Wanrikii] are quite far from what we got over here. Onidrill/Fearow is actually a pretty nice evolution of its old name of Onisuzume when it was a lowly Spearow, as the name gains... nothing really, except that now it's a Demon Drill. Great. As for the Pokemon we know as Machop, I initially thought its name might be referencing someone I didn't know about, so I immediately googled "Juan Ricky..." and found absolutely nobody famous with that name. Turns out it's just two Japanese words smashed together to loosely describe it as "Arm Strength." I think Machop is better.

One thing you will absolutely get great at when playing Pokemon or ANY rpg in Japanese is PAST TENSE.
Scrolling battle text is consistently displayed in the past tense... except when it isn't.


"Rizaado No Hinoko" and indeed 100% of the actual "X used Y" text is written as "[Pokemon]'s [Attack]." I believe at least one of the English language games MIGHT have done something like this with its battle text, but don't quote me on this... It's a good intro to the structure of how to use in its most basic form, though it has many uses beyond possession.


Let's take a step back to the Spearow days to talk about one of my favorite things to say out loud so far in this game.
"Kouka wa Batsugun da" or as we know it, "It's super effective!" More accurately, this is said more like "its effect is excellent!" which in terms of meaning is far less exciting, but it's WAY more fun to say it in Japanese.

Contrast with... wait a second, I didn't screencap the opposite, which is not as fun to say. "Kouka wa Imahito no You da" which comes out more like "its effect is lacking" which is sort of up there with "it's not very effective."

Can we just talk about this guy though?

"Pokemon Kosupure Shittemasu?" or if you couldn't figure it out yourself... "Do you know of Pokemon Cosplay?" Pretty sure they didn't verbatim stick "cosplay" directly into the original version, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. More importantly, this trainer is called...

"Kaiju no Mania" which is straight up "Monster Maniac." We got Pokemaniac which IMO is a bit better, but I didn't realize this next trainer would show me that mountain men are a thing in Japan too:

"Yama Otoko" is word-for-word "mountain man" but has the bonus meaning of "giant" which is sadly missing from the "Hiker" that we got in English.


"Goron." Hmmm...
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You don't even have to know much Japanese to know what is meant by "Ganbare!" Which is less descriptive than "The enemy is weak! Get 'em _______!" but you can't deny that "Ganbare" is a lot cooler to say.


Often it can be difficult to find things you might consider "useful" to say in the real world when playing games like this. However, "[pokemon/item] Sagashiterun da" is a cool phrase to build on/use as is. "I'm searching for _________." You can freely change the item/pokemon, the verb "saga" (to create some interesting new phrases not limited to "looking for") and tack on particles after "da" just to be like your favorite animu character.


Well, I can't complain that the name "Meowth" is bad when you're working with a source of " "Nyaasu." In fact, that's sadly one of the more clever "translations" in terms of preserving the original.


I do wanna know what precisely they meant with [Rokon] though.
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YonicBoom posted...

I do wanna know what precisely they meant with though.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Vulpix_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Trivia

Rokon may be a combination of roku (six) and kon (grudge, from the curse that Ninetales, its evolution, may cast on its foes), kon kon (the sound foxes make), konro (gas stove), or ko, an alternate reading of kitsune (fox).

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Eevee-Trainer posted...

YonicBoom posted...

I do wanna know what precisely they meant with though.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Vulpix_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Trivia

Rokon may be a combination of roku (six) and kon (grudge, from the curse that Ninetales, its evolution, may cast on its foes), kon kon (the sound foxes make), konro (gas stove), or ko, an alternate reading of kitsune (fox).

Boring, I haven't been consulting Bulbapedia except in dire emergency when I can't figure out WTF is going on with certain things.
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tag
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About the gym leaders, I'm pretty sure all their names are related to plants in some way.
I'll put them in spoilers just in case.

Brock = Takeshi = Bamboo
Misty = Kasumi = Kasumisou
Lt. Surge = Matis = Clematis
Erika = Erika = Erica
Koga = Kyou = Alternative reading for Anzu, Japanese for Apricot (Anzu is Janine's Japanese name)
Sabrina = Natsume = Chinese Date
Blaine = Katsura = Katsura
Giovanni = Sakaki = Sakaki

barnnn posted...

About the gym leaders, I'm pretty sure all their names are related to plants in some way.
I'll put them in spoilers just in case.

Brock = Takeshi = Bamboo
Misty = Kasumi = Kasumisou
Lt. Surge = Matis = Clematis
Erika = Erika = Erica
Koga = Kyou = Alternative reading for Anzu, Japanese for Apricot (Anzu is Janine's Japanese name)
Sabrina = Natsume = Chinese Date
Blaine = Katsura = Katsura
Giovanni = Sakaki = Sakaki

That's not too spoiler-y, as the gym leaders' names all appear on the badge screen in your Trainer info page.
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Eevee-Trainer posted...

YonicBoom posted...

I do wanna know what precisely they meant with though.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Vulpix_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Trivia

Rokon may be a combination of roku (six) and kon (grudge, from the curse that Ninetales, its evolution, may cast on its foes), kon kon (the sound foxes make), konro (gas stove), or ko, an alternate reading of kitsune (fox).

I don't know anything about Pokmon, but I speak/read Japanese. If you're curious, use the Japanese wiki to find out more about names. I found this by searching " " (Yurai = origin). Just click on Pokmon you're curious about, and go all the way to the bottom to the "" Section, which goes over the origin for the name in each language version.
https://wiki.xn--rckteqa2e.com/wiki/%E3%83%9D%E3%82%B1%E3%83%A2%E3%83%B3%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7

Just sharing as OP may find it interesting as he goes through the game.

edit: not sure why, but the link breaks because it is a domain with Unicode katakana in it.
edit: fixed punycode
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weird I thought gfaqs supported that sort of stuff now

https://wiki..com/wiki/#.E5.90.84.E8.A8.80.E8.AA.9E.E7.89.88.E3.81.A7.E3.81.AE.E5.90.8D.E7.A7.B0.E3.81.A8.E7.94.B1.E6.9D.A5
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kirbymuncher posted...

weird I thought gfaqs supported that sort of stuff now

https://wiki..com/wiki/#.E5.90.84.E8.A8.80.E8.AA.9E.E7.89.88.E3.81.A7.E3.81.AE.E5.90.8D.E7.A7.B0.E3.81.A8.E7.94.B1.E6.9D.A5

Yeah, sorry about that - I fixed it. Looks like gamefaqs can support Unicode in general, but Punycode is used for converting domains, and seems gamefaqs didn't like it.
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Aizret posted...

Just sharing as OP may find it interesting as he goes through the game.

Thanks!

Before I go to bed, I'd just like to talk a bit about my learning "methods" if you can call them that. Besides simply reading and playing the game, the past week has done a lot to help me "cut through" the mess of kana and start seeing words for what they really are, be able to guess new verbs' roots no matter the conjugation, and ignore particles to see the main parts of speech.

I look up lots of new words I don't know, or useful phrases that are flexible, and make flash cards with them using the Kanji wherever possible. I know the Pokeman games don't have Kanji until very recently, but it's not gonna hurt to get used to reading them. I figure that learning them through context is my best bet, as I'm not sure how one can effectively learn vocab/kanji by simply banging them out via traditional methods. OFC a lot of the vocabulary I'm learning here is utterly worthless, but just as much of it is useful and good. For example, I doubt I'll ever use or shout "!" in any situation IRL if I get to the point of talking to actual people, but you can bet words like and even definitely have places in daily speaking/reading/writing.

I figure by the time I'm done with this game I'll move onto some RPG that has Kanji, if only to start actually having no choice but to read it and get it embedded in my skull.
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So what's the progress of this friend of yours in learning Japanese?
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I played the original in Japanese... but I was Korean and didn't understand a word of it (Korean version of Pokemon wouldn't exist until much later). I personalyl would just... memorize what the names vaguely looked like and attached the Korean names to them. And yes, they're super goofy if you know English, but we never thought of them as goofy or basic. Name something a random English word that's not a pun? It sounds cool just because it's foreign.

Also Machisu for Lt. Surge sounds like they were going for machismo
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I feel like when I played BW in Japanese, I think the bikers were called Skinheads in Japanese? I don't remember tbqh. Maybe it was another game.

I do def remember the Linebacker trainer class is just called AmeFoot (Alluding to American football). Most of the sports field trailers weren't nouns like Striker or Pitcher, but specifically were just labeled their sport I think. Like the tennis players were just called Tennis Sakura and stuff.
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1337toothbrush posted...

So what's the progress of this friend of yours in learning Japanese?

I'm quite far ahead, which isn't surprising given that I end up "studying" for hours without realizing it because I'm enjoying what I'm doing and really trying to get something out of it. It's addicting but still frustrating at this level. I've barely played today because I've decided to check out some listening practice things, and I've been adding to/running through my flash card stack.

She's getting a lot of vocab down through her apps, and she gets to hear words spoken properly which helps a lot. ex. Omitting "u" sounds is common so a word like //gakusei is said closer to "gakksei" which I would have no way of telling if I didn't listen to things. I'm amused by the listening practice I've done so far though, my mind defaults to slapping the Kanji I know down as I transcribe it as opposed to relying on kana, but it's all easy/simple stuff so far...
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For the record, here's the "flash cards" I've been making/using for about 3 days since I started caring about actually remembering and internalizing words/kanji. I also have a set of physical cards I make to accompany it since I'm unable to access the Anki app at work, but I have lots of down time and am able to bang out cards quite often. I'll also practice writing them from memory.

I make all the cards myself as I encounter/learn a new word or phrase. One of the problems I think people have with the notion of kanji is that the same kanji can be read so many different ways and mean so many different things. However, my brain has had no trouble wrapping itself around the fact that can be read as "yama" or "san" depending on what word it's a part of. For example, "Yamaotoko" or Mountain man, but then "takusan" (a lot of) is a thing, and even "Fujisan" (Mt. Fuji) happen. I think if you try to learn that just means what it means in context as opposed to learning every single possible thing it can mean and every way it can be read, you'll have a much easier time with this.

I know some people really like to simply crank out Kanji flash cards from huge databases and learn it in a very rote fashion, but I think I'd just get frustrated by such a method. Right now I'm averaging 20-ish new things a day that I commit to cards. Some people do more, but that's not exactly a terrible pace imo. Some people will tell you that you MUST learn 2000 kanji in x amount of time... But I'm not sure many people who try it are actually learning anything.

IDK we'll see. At this point it's a game to me and I'm not doing it for "good" reasons besides to sort of prove that this can work.
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This is really interesting! Thanks for all this TC!
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YonicBoom posted...

At this point it's a game to me

congrats on finding the #1 way to actually learn anything
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Nani!?!

Aeriis posted...

Also, the pokemon maniac does say cosplay in the original game. Kind of funny!

I just CTRL+F'd a text dump of the English RBY version... They DO but sadly not with the exact word.

Do you know about
costume players?


Costume players
dress up as
POKEMON for fun.


EDIT: Fire Red/Leaf Green changed it to cosplay, just CTRL+F'd a text dump of THAT game to make sure.

I'm glad they changed it, "costume player" sounds lame AF.
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This topic ticks me off and I don't know why
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Useless language, hope youre in high school
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ScottSweatshirt posted...

Useless language, hope youre in high school

What an ignorant thing to say
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Yomi posted...

This topic ticks me off and I don't know why

Probably because of how disingenuous it is.

"I have zero interest in the language, I'm just in it to keep a 'friend' honest"

*proceeds to post with great enthusiasm about learning the language. The 'friend' is never mentioned again except when asked, then TC just throws out that the 'friend' is doing some exercises, obviously with less interest*

It's okay if you're a weeaboo TC, we'll just get some paddling in and then move on.
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the legendary birds are named Freezer, Thunder, and Fire, respectively. Much creative. Also, Jolteons name is Thunders. Yup, thats right. One extra letter compared to a different pokemons name.
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YonicBoom posted...

- No idea on the Gym leaders, but limited reading and research suggests that at lest Brock (Takeshi) and Misty (Kasumi) have relatively clever names while Lt. Surge got shafted with a dumb name (Machisu?) which I'm sure makes more sense to experienced Japanese readers but tbh I don't understand unless they're calling him "cheese" or something ridiculous.

Surge's Japanese name is "Mah cheese". Fact.

Not actually a fact :<
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1337toothbrush posted...

Probably because of how disingenuous it is.

I mean, I'm making this thread for the pleasure of those CE users who might be interested in reading it. The preface is hardly necessary but the simple fact is that I initially had no interest in Japanese, but every passing day makes it much more interesting. Don't like the thread? Don't read it.
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YonicBoom posted...

1337toothbrush posted...

Probably because of how disingenuous it is.

I mean, I'm making this thread for the pleasure of those CE users who might be interested in reading it. The preface is hardly necessary but the simple fact is that I initially had no interest in Japanese, but every passing day makes it much more interesting. Don't like the thread? Don't read it.

If you could pull your pants down and stand against the wall, please, so that we can get to the paddling, that would be greatly appreciated.
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