Current Events > FPS games will never be this good again

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I_Stay_Noided 02/27/18 1:38:58 PM #52:	halomonkey1_3_5 posted... why won't anyone make a good FPS these days There are good fps, they just happen to be single player/coop rather than PvP <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:896868846] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>halomonkey1_3_5 posted...</cite> <quote>why won't anyone make a good FPS these days</quote> There are good fps, they just happen to be single player/coop rather than PvP</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
halomonkey1_3_5 02/27/18 1:40:16 PM #53:	I_Stay_Noided posted... There are good fps, they just happen to be single player/coop rather than PvP thats lame tho --- Billy Mays: July 20, 1958 - June 28, 2009 The Greatest <cite>halomonkey1_3_5 posted [p:896868908] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>I_Stay_Noided posted...</cite> <quote>There are good fps, they just happen to be single player/coop rather than PvP </quote> thats lame tho</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
I_Stay_Noided 02/27/18 1:40:22 PM #54:	Asherlee10 posted... ThePieReborn posted... Asherlee10 posted... ThePieReborn posted... eston posted... ThePieReborn posted... "Cheap mechanics requiring significant investment to actually perform." Quite the oxymoron if I've ever seen one. Cheap in the sense that they are basically just exploits I don't see how that detracts from their legitimacy. Why should people not be rewarded for acquiring a better understanding of how the game works? Should my thousands of hours going through jump maps in TF2 not allow me to lord over the people who have not devoted the same amount of effort? Because they are exploits and unintended mechanics. It is the fastest way I can think of to lose the userbase of a multiplayer game. Why does their presence being intended or not have an impact there? And how is it an exploit if it's the logical end result of the physics engine? Because it eliminates mass amounts of a userbase. If you have an exploit that takes hundreds of hours of practice to use correctly, but it gives you a major advantage, you'll stop seeing new players or even average players. You'll be left with the tryhards who do nothing but the exploit. Halo 2 was absolutely like this. Once you got to a certain rank and certain point in time, it was nothing but exploits and cheaters. And I was one of those that perpetuated it. I could superbounce on all the maps and easily kill entire times with no deaths myself. People would ragequit. Again, these skills were not exploits. They were game design decisions originally made in QWTF and once valve hired the QWTF mod team to make TFC they kept these same designs while adding new skills. The ONLY skill that was borderline exploit territory was chophopping, which was banned in competitive play <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:896868915] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ThePieReborn posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ThePieReborn posted...</cite> <quote><cite>eston posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ThePieReborn posted...</cite> <quote>"Cheap mechanics requiring significant investment to actually perform." Quite the oxymoron if I've ever seen one.</quote> Cheap in the sense that they are basically just exploits</quote> I don't see how that detracts from their legitimacy. Why should people not be rewarded for acquiring a better understanding of how the game works? Should my thousands of hours going through jump maps in TF2 not allow me to lord over the people who have not devoted the same amount of effort?</quote> Because they are exploits and unintended mechanics. It is the fastest way I can think of to lose the userbase of a multiplayer game.</quote> Why does their presence being intended or not have an impact there? And how is it an exploit if it's the logical end result of the physics engine?</quote> Because it eliminates mass amounts of a userbase. If you have an exploit that takes hundreds of hours of practice to use correctly, but it gives you a major advantage, you'll stop seeing new players or even average players. You'll be left with the tryhards who do nothing but the exploit. Halo 2 was absolutely like this. Once you got to a certain rank and certain point in time, it was nothing but exploits and cheaters. And I was one of those that perpetuated it. I could superbounce on all the maps and easily kill entire times with no deaths myself. People would ragequit.</quote> Again, these skills were not exploits. They were game design decisions originally made in QWTF and once valve hired the QWTF mod team to make TFC they kept these same designs while adding new skills. The ONLY skill that was borderline exploit territory was chophopping, which was banned in competitive play</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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TheMarthKoopa 02/27/18 1:42:23 PM #56:	halomonkey1_3_5 posted... why won't anyone make a good FPS these days It's unprofitable <cite>TheMarthKoopa posted [p:896869039] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>halomonkey1_3_5 posted...</cite> <quote>why won't anyone make a good FPS these days</quote> It's unprofitable</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
InYourWalls1 02/27/18 1:47:15 PM #57:	halomonkey1_3_5 posted... why won't anyone make a good FPS these days Halo 5 was good --- The fully enlightened earth radiates disaster triumphant <cite>InYourWalls1 posted [p:896869331] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>halomonkey1_3_5 posted...</cite> <quote>why won't anyone make a good FPS these days</quote> Halo 5 was good</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 02/27/18 1:52:15 PM #58:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1XENlUUOhA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TluRVBhmf8w <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:896869665] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1XENlUUOhA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TluRVBhmf8w</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
iClockwork 02/27/18 1:54:07 PM #59:	InYourWalls1 posted... halomonkey1_3_5 posted... why won't anyone make a good FPS these days Halo 5 was good Halo 2 was good Halo 5 was yikes. --- Sometimes people come along and they want to change things. I am one of those people and I will assist in furthering our country for the better. - Xsquader <cite>iClockwork posted [p:896869792] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>InYourWalls1 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>halomonkey1_3_5 posted...</cite> <quote>why won't anyone make a good FPS these days</quote> Halo 5 was good</quote> Halo 2 was good Halo 5 was yikes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
I_Stay_Noided 02/27/18 2:10:59 PM #60:	Asherlee10 posted... A couple of games as an example are the exception, not the rule i mean this topic was explicitly about those 2 games (and the skills that were not exploits) and why games will never be on that level again youre complaining about exploits in a topic where the games being discussed did not have such exploits <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:896870750] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>A couple of games as an example are the exception, not the rule</quote> i mean this topic was explicitly about those 2 games (and the skills that were not exploits) and why games will never be on that level again youre complaining about exploits in a topic where the games being discussed did not have such exploits</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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I_Stay_Noided 02/27/18 2:15:30 PM #62:	Asherlee10 posted... I_Stay_Noided posted... Asherlee10 posted... A couple of games as an example are the exception, not the rule i mean this topic was explicitly about those 2 games and why games will never be on that level again Then, later, you revealed why you thought FPS games will never be good again and this is the response. in response to games that were designed with high levels of intended mechanic skill not unintended exploits you have been ranting on and on about <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:896871009] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>I_Stay_Noided posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>A couple of games as an example are the exception, not the rule</quote> i mean this topic was explicitly about those 2 games and why games will never be on that level again</quote> Then, later, you revealed why you thought FPS games will never be good again and this is the response.</quote> in response to games that were designed with high levels of intended mechanic skill not unintended exploits you have been ranting on and on about</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EverDownward 02/27/18 2:15:39 PM #63:	i just want og doom again. thankfully, i can boot it up anytime i wish. --- http://i.imgur.com/DKNJbBm.jpg What a terrifying thing to happen. I'm not sure why but I have this big fear of going blond - Zurkon <cite>EverDownward posted [p:896871015] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote>i just want og doom again. thankfully, i can boot it up anytime i wish.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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I_Stay_Noided 02/27/18 2:25:26 PM #65:	Asherlee10 posted... Were you wanting a circlejerk of people agreeing with you? no i just wanted people to appreciate how good multiplayer FPS used to be and why they have been absolutely shit since the mid 2000s <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:896871599] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Were you wanting a circlejerk of people agreeing with you? </quote> no i just wanted people to appreciate how good multiplayer FPS used to be and why they have been absolutely shit since the mid 2000s</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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I_Stay_Noided 02/27/18 2:29:04 PM #67:	Asherlee10 posted... I_Stay_Noided posted... Asherlee10 posted... Were you wanting a circlejerk of people agreeing with you? no i just wanted people to appreciate how good multiplayer FPS used to be and why they have been absolutely shit since the mid 2000s But most do not agree with that opinion based on your qualifiers. As stated in the beginning, what you particularly enjoyed about old FPS games created a serious imbalance in multiplayer FPS games, thus depleting the userbase. I still disagree. DotA2 is one of the more complex games out today and it is far more popular than its casualized competition (LoL and HotS) <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:896871816] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>I_Stay_Noided posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Were you wanting a circlejerk of people agreeing with you? </quote> no i just wanted people to appreciate how good multiplayer FPS used to be and why they have been absolutely shit since the mid 2000s</quote> But most do not agree with that opinion based on your qualifiers. As stated in the beginning, what you particularly enjoyed about old FPS games created a serious imbalance in multiplayer FPS games, thus depleting the userbase.</quote> I still disagree. DotA2 is one of the more complex games out today and it is far more popular than its casualized competition (LoL and HotS)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
InYourWalls1 02/27/18 2:29:22 PM #68:	iClockwork posted... Halo 2 was good Halo 5 was yikes. It's no Halo 2, I agree. But 5 added some cool new dimensions to the gameplay with things like thrust and clambering - it had some small things that held it back from being great, but at its core it was really solid Also Ash I don't think the things you're arguing against are necessarily at odds with a userbase. Sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too. Halo 2 was a good example of that, a lot of the glitches just became another skill you picked up along the way (or were just fun and part of the charm in other ways), and due to the way matchmaking was set up there was appeal to a broad userbase where people at most levels were able to have fun (the hacking at the higher levels aside) --- The fully enlightened earth radiates disaster triumphant <cite>InYourWalls1 posted [p:896871832] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>iClockwork posted...</cite> <quote>Halo 2 was good Halo 5 was yikes.</quote> It's no Halo 2, I agree. But 5 added some cool new dimensions to the gameplay with things like thrust and clambering - it had some small things that held it back from being great, but at its core it was really solid Also Ash I don't think the things you're arguing against are necessarily at odds with a userbase. Sometimes you can have your cake and eat it too. Halo 2 was a good example of that, a lot of the glitches just became another skill you picked up along the way (or were just fun and part of the charm in other ways), and due to the way matchmaking was set up there was appeal to a broad userbase where people at most levels were able to have fun (the hacking at the higher levels aside)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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I_Stay_Noided 02/27/18 2:44:15 PM #70:	Asherlee10 posted... I_Stay_Noided posted... Asherlee10 posted... I_Stay_Noided posted... Asherlee10 posted... Were you wanting a circlejerk of people agreeing with you? no i just wanted people to appreciate how good multiplayer FPS used to be and why they have been absolutely shit since the mid 2000s But most do not agree with that opinion based on your qualifiers. As stated in the beginning, what you particularly enjoyed about old FPS games created a serious imbalance in multiplayer FPS games, thus depleting the userbase. I still disagree. DotA2 is one of the more complex games out today and it is far more popular than its casualized competition (LoL and HotS) Complex != intended or unintended cheap mechanics and exploits I also don't know much about the mechanics in DOTA2. But I did look up their userbase. http://steamcharts.com/app/570#All - It seems to be trending downward for quite some time. It's not even above Farm Simulator 2017 in terms of userbase on PC: https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-20-core-pc-games/ id really like to know where they get those numbers considering dota 2 currently has 48x more current players than farming simulator on steam right now <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:896872784] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>I_Stay_Noided posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>I_Stay_Noided posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Were you wanting a circlejerk of people agreeing with you? </quote> no i just wanted people to appreciate how good multiplayer FPS used to be and why they have been absolutely shit since the mid 2000s</quote> But most do not agree with that opinion based on your qualifiers. As stated in the beginning, what you particularly enjoyed about old FPS games created a serious imbalance in multiplayer FPS games, thus depleting the userbase.</quote> I still disagree. DotA2 is one of the more complex games out today and it is far more popular than its casualized competition (LoL and HotS)</quote> Complex != intended or unintended cheap mechanics and exploits I also don't know much about the mechanics in DOTA2. But I did look up their userbase. http://steamcharts.com/app/570#All - It seems to be trending downward for quite some time. It's not even above Farm Simulator 2017 in terms of userbase on PC: https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-20-core-pc-games/</quote> id really like to know where they get those numbers considering dota 2 currently has 48x more current players than farming simulator on steam right now</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Pogo_Marimo 02/27/18 2:44:44 PM #71:	Asherlee10 posted... The building that is required in Fortnite ruins it for me, personally. That clip in post #37 looks more like a building-fight than a gunfight. I really enjoy the PvE in Fortnight, but the devs didn't do enough to encourage cool adaptive building design in favor of "just repeat a template building and slap some traps on the outside facing enemy spawn". Fun game and I played it A LOT for about a month last year, but I lost interest. --- // BEAUTY IS NOT LOVE - LOVE IS NOT MUSIC - MUSIC IS THE BEST - WISDOM IS THE DOMAIN OF THE WIZ--WHICH IS EXTINCT // http://www.last.fm/user/Pogo92 <cite>Pogo_Marimo posted [p:896872811] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>The building that is required in Fortnite ruins it for me, personally. That clip in post #37 looks more like a building-fight than a gunfight.</quote> I really enjoy the PvE in Fortnight, but the devs didn't do enough to encourage cool adaptive building design in favor of "just repeat a template building and slap some traps on the outside facing enemy spawn". Fun game and I played it A LOT for about a month last year, but I lost interest.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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I_Stay_Noided 02/27/18 2:53:04 PM #74:	Asherlee10 posted... Exploitive mechanics definitely deplete the userbase do you play fighting games by chance note that fighting games are not popular because of the base learning curve and lack of accessibility (hence the popularity of smash) <cite>I_Stay_Noided posted [p:896873329] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Exploitive mechanics definitely deplete the userbase</quote> do you play fighting games by chance note that fighting games are not popular because of the base learning curve and lack of accessibility (hence the popularity of smash)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ehhwhatever 02/27/18 2:55:19 PM #75:	What is it in DOOM2 you can go as fast as a rocket? It looks like you are in formation? --- Your momma wears capri pants. <cite>ehhwhatever posted [p:896873467] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote>What is it in DOOM2 you can go as fast as a rocket? It looks like you are in formation?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
InYourWalls1 02/27/18 2:58:43 PM #76:	Asherlee10 posted... Exploitive mechanics definitely deplete the userbase. Devs usually fix those instances where players can gain those types of advantages because of that. Maybe we should clarify a bit here. What do you consider exploitative? Simply unintended? If there's no defense against something, sure, I can grant that. But I view stuff like the button combos as fair because it was something anyone could do, and while it might catch you off guard when new, provided you were a regular member of the userbase (regardless of skill) it wasn't hard to become aware of what these things were. And they didn't do much to turn people off of the series either. --- The fully enlightened earth radiates disaster triumphant <cite>InYourWalls1 posted [p:896873674] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Exploitive mechanics definitely deplete the userbase. Devs usually fix those instances where players can gain those types of advantages because of that.</quote> Maybe we should clarify a bit here. What do you consider exploitative? Simply unintended? If there's no defense against something, sure, I can grant that. But I view stuff like the button combos as fair because it was something anyone could do, and while it might catch you off guard when new, provided you were a regular member of the userbase (regardless of skill) it wasn't hard to become aware of what these things were. And they didn't do much to turn people off of the series either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
P4wn4g3 02/27/18 3:03:49 PM #77:	OK back up a second here While I agree that QWTF is pretty much the pinnacle of the genre, most of these advanced techniques have been confirmed as exploits by both ID devs and TF devs. They nerfed bunny hopping in newer TF versions (circa 2006, so maybe not so new now) due to the ability to arbitrarily go any speed. Although the amazing grenade/rj/concjump etc was pretty fun. Also Mario jumping was still a thing. I still "bunny hop" in modern games but mostly I just jump a lot and get boosts off explosions or attacks, since you maintain no momentum. There are many other reasons why QWTF could be called the best of all time aside from movement exploits. This coming from someone well versed in TF exploits. --- Hive Mind of Dark Aether, the unofficial Metroid Social Private board. https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/851-dark-aether <cite>P4wn4g3 posted [p:896873961] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote>OK back up a second here While I agree that QWTF is pretty much the pinnacle of the genre, most of these advanced techniques have been confirmed as exploits by both ID devs and TF devs. They nerfed bunny hopping in newer TF versions (circa 2006, so maybe not so new now) due to the ability to arbitrarily go any speed. Although the amazing grenade/rj/concjump etc was pretty fun. Also Mario jumping was still a thing. I still "bunny hop" in modern games but mostly I just jump a lot and get boosts off explosions or attacks, since you maintain no momentum. There are many other reasons why QWTF could be called the best of all time aside from movement exploits. This coming from someone well versed in TF exploits.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ModLogic 02/27/18 3:05:50 PM #78:	halomonkey1_3_5 posted... why won't anyone make a good FPS these days people are bored of the genre apart from the graphics. literally nothing has changed since wolfenstein 3d. --- http://i.imgur.com/hEL2qQYh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lbSi0U3.png http://i.imgur.com/FA2GxDS.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xaRYKZM.png http://i.imgur.com/ZngbqJn.jpg <cite>ModLogic posted [p:896874079] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>halomonkey1_3_5 posted...</cite> <quote>why won't anyone make a good FPS these days</quote> people are bored of the genre apart from the graphics. literally nothing has changed since wolfenstein 3d.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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InYourWalls1 02/27/18 3:17:54 PM #81:	Asherlee10 posted... Post #77 helps answer this. Unintended is definitely a qualifier, but not a requirement. Even if a dev puts the mechanic in there specifically, it still creates an imbalance in the game. Yeah was gonna say, that's a good point. There's a fine line between something that's jarring and ruins the gameplay vs. something that might be unintended but can enhance the gameplay at a high level --- The fully enlightened earth radiates disaster triumphant <cite>InYourWalls1 posted [p:896874775] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Post #77 helps answer this. Unintended is definitely a qualifier, but not a requirement. Even if a dev puts the mechanic in there specifically, it still creates an imbalance in the game.</quote> Yeah was gonna say, that's a good point. There's a fine line between something that's jarring and ruins the gameplay vs. something that might be unintended but can enhance the gameplay at a high level</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
P4wn4g3 02/27/18 3:18:50 PM #82:	Asherlee10 posted... InYourWalls1 posted... Asherlee10 posted... Exploitive mechanics definitely deplete the userbase. Devs usually fix those instances where players can gain those types of advantages because of that. Maybe we should clarify a bit here. What do you consider exploitative? Simply unintended? If there's no defense against something, sure, I can grant that. But I view stuff like the button combos as fair because it was something anyone could do, and while it might catch you off guard when new, provided you were a regular member of the userbase (regardless of skill) it wasn't hard to become aware of what these things were. And they didn't do much to turn people off of the series either. Post #77 helps answer this. Unintended is definitely a qualifier, but not a requirement. Even if a dev puts the mechanic in there specifically, it still creates an imbalance in the game. Bunny hopping specifically, and all techniques requiring it, was in the Quake base game. It took advantage of the physics engine which would infinitely accelerate you so long as you were continuously "falling" and so long as you didn't hit forward or back. It was unintended and game breaking pretty often. Speed runners use it for quake. A lot of clans would decide whether or not techniques like these could be used in matches before the match. --- Hive Mind of Dark Aether, the unofficial Metroid Social Private board. https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/851-dark-aether <cite>P4wn4g3 posted [p:896874828] in FPS games ... [t:76363260]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>InYourWalls1 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Exploitive mechanics definitely deplete the userbase. Devs usually fix those instances where players can gain those types of advantages because of that.</quote> Maybe we should clarify a bit here. What do you consider exploitative? Simply unintended? If there's no defense against something, sure, I can grant that. But I view stuff like the button combos as fair because it was something anyone could do, and while it might catch you off guard when new, provided you were a regular member of the userbase (regardless of skill) it wasn't hard to become aware of what these things were. And they didn't do much to turn people off of the series either.</quote> Post #77 helps answer this. Unintended is definitely a qualifier, but not a requirement. Even if a dev puts the mechanic in there specifically, it still creates an imbalance in the game.</quote> Bunny hopping specifically, and all techniques requiring it, was in the Quake base game. It took advantage of the physics engine which would infinitely accelerate you so long as you were continuously "falling" and so long as you didn't hit forward or back. It was unintended and game breaking pretty often. Speed runners use it for quake. A lot of clans would decide whether or not techniques like these could be used in matches before the match.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > FPS games will never be this good again (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > FPS games will never be this good again