Poll of the Day > Why don't we give a new nation to the native north americans?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like a new Israel
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Because it's not just one tribe with a shared heritage, but instead countless fractured tribes of mixed ancestry and disparate culture. Plus the land we could most easily give them wouldn't be great land, considering we'd likely cut off one of the huge unused swathes of Canada.
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We have given Native Americans enough.. time they give back. We have paid them 10 fold for their land.. they get free schooling ( rarely use it ). Don't have to pay property taxes on reservations and the list goes on.

xjayguyx posted...

We have given Native Americans enough.. time they give back. We have paid them 10 fold for their land.. they get free schooling ( rarely use it ). Don't have to pay property taxes on reservations and the list goes on.

So you don't liek Israel?
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xjayguyx posted...

We have given Native Americans enough.. time they give back. We have paid them 10 fold for their land.. they get free schooling ( rarely use it ). Don't have to pay property taxes on reservations and the list goes on.

Well y'see the problem is, the land was not bought or sold in the first place, it was stolen.
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Nightengale posted...

xjayguyx posted...

We have given Native Americans enough.. time they give back. We have paid them 10 fold for their land.. they get free schooling ( rarely use it ). Don't have to pay property taxes on reservations and the list goes on.

Well y'see the problem is, the land was not bought or sold in the first place, it was stolen.

...actually, a lot of it WAS bought or sold. Otherwise what you call "stolen" is the same conquest seen throughout the rest of the world and, indeed, among Native Americans themselves who fought for territory.
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someone came up with this idea before on here. I will say the same thing I said to them

like was mentioned already, it's a bunch of tribes, all with different cultures. how are we going to satisfy every tribe when some want to live on the coast, some in the desert, some in the plains, some in the mountains or the forest. and they don't just want any land. they want THEIR land. the land of their ancestors. Jews got their sacred land. but native americans usually don't. most tribes got moved away from their ancestral lands and only a handful of lucky tribes actually live on their ancient land. most ancestral lands have been stolen and had cities built on them. Native americans are the most oppressed and genocided race on the planet. we almost drove them to extinction. there are not that many of them left. they make up like less than 5% of the country's population and most of them are not even pure native anymore.

Zikten posted...

Native americans are the most oppressed and genocided race on the planet.

Well, no, considering that their extermination has never been as systemic and racially-based as other actual genocides. And today they're not the most oppressed group, since we have actual genocides currently being carried out in parts of the world, including Myanmar.

Zikten posted...

they make up like less than 5% of the country's population and most of them are not even pure native anymore.

There are quite a few problems there. First off, the majority of Native Americans were wiped out *prior* to European westward expansion thanks to disease (the bulk of which unintentionally came from settlers, although biological weapons *were* used later on). Second, it's not merely a matter of a shrinking Native population, but instead massive immigration and higher birthrates among the immigrated peoples. Third, on the issue of racial purity, there's nothing inherently wrong with mixed race marriages and it's not like there was a policy in place promoting "breeding the Native out" of them, unlike Australia which literally did that as recently as the the 1930s or 1940s.

Granted, there WAS some attempts at extermination by the Federal government -- forced sterlization, for instance (which, as always, is one reason why you should be wary when the government offers you "free" anything -- they've sterlized and experimented on communities they claimed they had come to help), although the impact was more limited and covert than other programs.
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I think North America would get along with itself much better if it were broken up into a dozen independent entities. Forcing people to get along and conform to the will of the nation state died with liberalism increasing heavily during the mid 20th century. Toeing the line is a dead concept to a lot if people, but the institutions are built around it. A lot of people, even young ones, have one foot in the future and one in the past because our systems are still built upon an "old British" mentality. Ideologically, people are all over the place now, but crammed into only a few different boxes. It doesn't work.

People are more likely to get along with somebody they disagree with if they aren't living together. Cascadia, Quebec, the Northern Territories/Alaska, the Midwest/Prairies, the Old South, the Northeast, etc., etc... would probably function better as separate nations within a confederacy. Kind of like a looser-knit Switzerland.
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Yeah because native Americans are just one homogeneous tribe

Has tc ever read a book
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FatalAccident posted...

Yeah because native Americans are just one homogeneous tribe

Has tc ever read a book

Lokarin gets all of his knowledge from GameFAQs and skeptic (alt-right) shock youtubers
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Because technically there's no such thing as 'native' North Americans. Even the more politically correct term of 'first peoples' is incorrect, as most of those groups weren't even there first.

Zeus posted...

Nightengale posted...

xjayguyx posted...

We have given Native Americans enough.. time they give back. We have paid them 10 fold for their land.. they get free schooling ( rarely use it ). Don't have to pay property taxes on reservations and the list goes on.

Well y'see the problem is, the land was not bought or sold in the first place, it was stolen.

...actually, a lot of it WAS bought or sold. Otherwise what you call "stolen" is the same conquest seen throughout the rest of the world and, indeed, among Native Americans themselves who fought for territory.

Yeah, bought or sold through unscrupulous dealings. Read some actual history. Here in Canada, we kept indigenous kids in schools being abused by Catholic priests well into the 1900s. Perhaps you would have a hard time with alcohol if your parents/grandparents were tortured and confined to a ****ty reserve.
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I'll probably move my white ass back to Finland someday though. go back to your own countries!!!
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maybe they can have this one back after we're done killing each other.
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xjayguyx posted...

We have given Native Americans enough.. time they give back. We have paid them 10 fold for their land.. they get free schooling ( rarely use it ). Don't have to pay property taxes on reservations and the list goes on.

Many early settlers destroyed an entire cultures way of life and committed acts of genocide against them.

Some more bigoted people may argue that much of the land was actually purchased, but plenty of it was not and natives were simply driven away by force or the land was purchased from individuals that werent even authority figures or sometimes even members of the tribes that lived there.

The idea that weve done enough is absurd because the damage that was done can never be undone or fixed.
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So giving back the land we took is out of the question then?

Also, Israel is just as stolen as North America... not a good example.

"Because fuck em" - George Washington 1792
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JTekashiro posted...

So giving back the land we took is out of the question then?

in most cases it is. we have cities built now on lots of the land. their sacred lands are forever stolen. they didn't want to just live in random land, each tribe has specific land that is sacred to them, and in almost every case, we took that land. cause the sacred land usually was good land, that's why the tribes lived there. and we took that land to build farms and cities and factories

ReturnOfFa posted...

I'll probably move my white ass back to Finland someday though. go back to your own countries!!!

I don't really have my own country as such. I'm certainly not moving to Poland. England is an option, I guess, but I wouldn't really want to.

Canada has a lot of problems to be sure, but that doesn't mean I get to run away from them.
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Nightengale posted...

FatalAccident posted...

Yeah because native Americans are just one homogeneous tribe

Has tc ever read a book

Lokarin gets all of his knowledge from GameFAQs and skeptic (alt-right) shock youtubers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKHoMi-U8g4" data-time="

ReturnOfFa posted...

Zeus posted...

Nightengale posted...

xjayguyx posted...

We have given Native Americans enough.. time they give back. We have paid them 10 fold for their land.. they get free schooling ( rarely use it ). Don't have to pay property taxes on reservations and the list goes on.

Well y'see the problem is, the land was not bought or sold in the first place, it was stolen.

...actually, a lot of it WAS bought or sold. Otherwise what you call "stolen" is the same conquest seen throughout the rest of the world and, indeed, among Native Americans themselves who fought for territory.

Yeah, bought or sold through unscrupulous dealings. Read some actual history. Here in Canada, we kept indigenous kids in schools being abused by Catholic priests well into the 1900s. Perhaps you would have a hard time with alcohol if your parents/grandparents were tortured and confined to a ****ty reserve.

And by "actual history," are you referring to one of those alt-news propaganda sites pushing a narrative? >_> At any rate, the Native's problems with alcohol go *far* earlier than that and have more to do with genetics than culture:
https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh301/3-4.htm

Europeans had adapted to variations of the poison for thousands of years and, even as their bodies adapted to it throughout the generations, continued to refine the poison. As such, when these poisons were introduced into new cultures, there have always been problems.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_sovereignty_in_the_United_States

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/10/11/native-american-casino-and-tax-rules-that-may-surprise-you/amp/

These links might help ya.
But tl;dr - tribal members on tribal lands are ultimately American citizens but there are some layers to their status. And even though there have been a lot of instances where tribal lands have gone to court with the states in which they are located, the tribal lands have almost always come out the victor.

As far as all these tribal lands actually becoming completely sovereign nations, that would be highly impractical tbh, and almost certainly not beneficial to the people living there at this point. I get the ideological basis for wanting to do that but just to start with, it looks like all these territories would essentially be landlocked and completely surrounded by the US.
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Nightengale posted...

FatalAccident posted...

Yeah because native Americans are just one homogeneous tribe

Has tc ever read a book

Lokarin gets all of his knowledge from GameFAQs and skeptic (alt-right) shock youtubers

The libertarian left are not the alt-right
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