Current Events > Re-watching DS9 man the doctor was horrible.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't think TNG or DS9 would last in today's TV market since both of them took a while to get their footing. A lot of the characters are bland so far but their doctor is just a horrible creepy human being. And is name sounds that same as this eel looking fish. (lol)
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Bashir gets better once they stop trying to make him a lady's man
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Massive plot-hole aside Bashir is one of the best characters in all of Star Trek.

WTF is wrong with you TC?

He's like only one of 7 characters in all of Star Trek who actually has flaws, an interesting personality and character development.
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Bashir becomes a very good character later on. Yes he is insufferable and annoying early on.
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creativerealms posted...

Yes he is insufferable and annoying early on.

That's the point tho.

It doesn't make him a bad character. He's supposed to be naive, over-eager and gets on everyone else's nerves. He actually has a personality and isn't bland like Sisko or Riker or Janeway or Troi.
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Bashir starts bad, yes. Very green, nave, kind of creepy. But he gets so, so much better later. And through him we get Garak. Garak!

UnfairRepresent posted...

Massive plot-hole aside

Massive plot hole? I think the revelation fits in fairly well. Hey it improved his intellect, not his social skills.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

It doesn't make him a bad character. He's supposed to naive, over-eager and gets on everyone else's nerves. He actually has a personality and isn't bland like Sisko or Riker or Janeway or Troi.

Sisko gets more lively too. And he's already a bit of a badass with his episode one extortion of Quark and early beating of an omnipotent being.
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Sir Will posted...

Bashir starts bad, yes. Very green, nave, kind of creepy. But he gets so, so much better later. And through him we get Garak. Garak!

UnfairRepresent posted...

Massive plot-hole aside

Massive plot hole? I think the revelation fits in fairly well. Hey it improved his intellect, not his social skills.

Not really.

There's an entire episode dedicated to an alien fucking with his min and usins his deepest darkest most secret desires/weaknesses and history against him in an attempt to kill him. And it literally never comes up.

"Oh you gave up on Tennis because you weren't good enough to make it!" ...

Wut... Well for starters that's less of a big deal than secretly being gentically enchanced why not taunt him about that and point out that hes going to be fired and go to prison... and secondly why the fuck is Bashir not good enough to make it at Tennis when he is gentically enhanced?

It's a huge continuity error because the writers made up that he was enchanced on the spot
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I never liked Bashir, and I thought DS9 had the strongest all-around cast of any ST series.
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The Doctor from Voyager is way better.
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I never watched DS9 all the way through, though I did see the awesome two parter where the station defended against a Klingon attack. If I really liked TNG and liked ToS would I like it? I supposed the eternal optimism were really appealing in those two...

Ruvan22 posted...

I never watched DS9 all the way through, though I did see the awesome two parter where the station defended against a Klingon attack. If I really liked TNG and liked ToS would I like it? I supposed the eternal optimism were really appealing in those two...

It's a little darker than TNG and TOS.

Like TNG It has a rocky start and Sisko is probably the worst or at least most boring captain but if you liked TNG you will like DS9. They're on nearly equal levels. TNG is better overall but when DS9 hits it hits hard.

In The Pale Moonlight is probably the best Star Trek episode ever. And Garrick, Bashir, Obrien, Quark are all top 10 Star Trek characters
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Ruvan22 posted...

I never watched DS9 all the way through, though I did see the awesome two parter where the station defended against a Klingon attack. If I really liked TNG and liked ToS would I like it? I supposed the eternal optimism were really appealing in those two...

If it's the optimism you loved so much.... Well, DS9 is darker than the other shows before Discovery. It's nowhere near the grimdark mess Discovery is, just a bit darker than like TNG and such. Things are a little less black and white. But it's still Star Trek, there's still optimism there, and I think it's a great show overall.
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Ruvan22 posted...

I never watched DS9 all the way through, though I did see the awesome two parter where the station defended against a Klingon attack. If I really liked TNG and liked ToS would I like it? I supposed the eternal optimism were really appealing in those two...

They're very different shows. TOS and TNG are about exploration and are almost entirely episodic. DS9 starts off as the "wild west in space" and basically becomes a war show by season 4, with several serialized arcs throughout the seasons. The entire second half of the final season is one long episode.
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The Admiral posted...

The entire second half of the final season is one long episode.

And sadly suffers because of it :/
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UnfairRepresent posted...

and Sisko is probably the worst or at least most boring captain

How the hell is Sisko boring? Picard was a grump for the first few seasons.
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Sisko is 100x better than Janeway and Archer.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

The Admiral posted...

The entire second half of the final season is one long episode.

And sadly suffers because of it :/

I disagree. Aside from the Ezri/Worf part it was a very enjoyable arc imo (the Dukat thing would ultimately be a mistake too). Season 7 had some clunkers but more in the earlier part of the season.
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Sisko is the worst character. Bashir is good later, not as good as the Doctor from Voyager, i.e. the only good character in Voyager.
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Sir Will posted...

How the hell is Sisko boring?

24th century Science Fiction show main character and the best they can come up with is "He likes Baseball an...and...and...and...erm... and... Cooking!... yes."

Compare to Picard or Bashir who actually has a personality and brings stuff to the episodes. Sisko is just a big black void and solely reacts to stuff.

"He's a single father and some people worship him and it was a tempary assignment and people in the past used to be racist!" isn't a personality it's just stuff happening to him. He's a reactive character not a proactive character.

In the Pale Moonlight is literally the only good Sisko heavy episode and that's because it's not about him.

I challenge anyone to watch the scene with him and Jennifer on the beach and then come back and say he's a strong character with a great personality.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Sisko is the worst character. Bashir is good later, not as good as the Doctor from Voyager, i.e. the only good character in Voyager.

While The Doctor is the best character in Voyager without a doubt I have to admit I actually like Tom Paris.

I know we're not supposed to but I do.

I don't even hate Neelix.

I really like characters with flaws. I feel like a lot of people only like flawless characters like Sisko or Riker. I actually like people who fuck up sometimes or have personality quirks that bother people.

Tom Paris in Voyager (obsession with the 20th century aside) feels like the only human being on the ship. Everyone else feels like a robot.
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The other problem(s) with Sisko were the actor wasn't great (constantly over acting) and they basically strapped the main plot onto Sisko. So while the plot of the show was very good, it really made a stark contrast to Sisko's bad character.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I feel like a lot of people only like flawless characters like Sisko or Riker.

Nobody likes Riker.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

The other problem(s) with Sisko were the actor wasn't great (constantly over acting)

I can't remember the episode but there was one part where he's talking to Dukat and Dukat says something like "Then I expect you won't mind me looking around your station!?" and Sisko just pulls this really weird goofy over dramatic shrug with a pouty face which the camera lingers on for several seconds.

And it's just like... "WTF where you even trying to do there Avery?"

It's a really weird moment in Star Trek that no one ever talks about. Dunno why the director left it in
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UnfairRepresent posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

The other problem(s) with Sisko were the actor wasn't great (constantly over acting)

I can't remember the episode but there was one part where he's talking to Dukat and Dukat says something like "Then I expect you won't mind me looking around your station!?" and Sisko just pulls this really weird goofy over dramatic shrug with a pouty face which the camera lingers on for several seconds.

And it's just like... "WTF where you even trying to do there Avery?"

It's a really weird moment in Star Trek that no one ever talks about. Dunno why the director left it in

Yeah there was a lot of that. I think the guy who played Archer is actually a better actor even though his character is abysmally worse. There were no good characters in ENT.

TNG kind of got the best of both worlds there, both with good actors and good character development. Granted Troi, both Crushers, and the blonde security lady were a thing, but they got rid of two of those eventually and improved Troi later on. Never improved Riker though, just gave him a beard. Essentially no plot, but that was the way of that series.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Nobody likes Riker.

I like him after he grew his beard, odd I only started to like Sisko after he cut his hair. He was too nice at first.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

. There were no good characters in ENT.

Boo to you!

I like Reed.

Southern Boy isn't bad either.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

"He's a single father and some people worship him and it was a tempary assignment and people in the past used to be racist!" isn't a personality it's just stuff happening to him. He's a reactive character not a proactive character.

His parenting is an important thing to his character and I don't see a problem with that. He grows into a very spiritual man over time. You call it reacting, but so what?

UnfairRepresent posted...

I challenge anyone to watch the scene with him and Jennifer on the beach and then come back and say he's a strong character with a great personality.

...so your evidence is a stupid scene from the pilot? Really? Picard does lots of horrible things in the first couple seasons.

UnfairRepresent posted...

I know we're not supposed to but I do.

Huh? Why aren't we supposed to? Tom's great.

UnfairRepresent posted...

I feel like a lot of people only like flawless characters like Sisko or Riker.

Sisko isn't flawless. He can have quite a short fuse sometimes. Hell, he nuked a planet once (man I hate that episode, he should have gotten so much shit for that).

Funny you mention this after Tom. Tom's like the only competent member of the crew half the time in the first few seasons.
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Rikers best episode was Best of Both Worlds 1, where Shelby made him realize how complacent he had become on The Enterprise.

After the conclusion of that episode, it was fairly absurd that he stayed first officer given the need for captains following Wolf 359 and how he was insanely overqualified to still be a commander.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I like Reed.

Now that you mention it I vaguely remember him being alright. The main problem with ENT is mostly everything is so bad that it's hard for me to remember any good parts.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Never improved Riker though, just gave him a beard. Essentially no plot, but that was the way of that series.

His plot ended after season 3. It was the end of his arc. But he stayed and not much was done after that. Thomas was a missed opportunity.
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I'm only into season 3 of DS9 on my first watch through, and I like it, but yeah holy shit Sisko is a BAD ACTOR. He's so weird and creepy. He could play a serial killer better.
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spanky1 posted...

I'm only into season 3 of DS9 on my first watch through, and I like it, but yeah holy shit Sisko is a BAD ACTOR. He's so weird and creepy. He could play a serial killer better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebATLOZCSjI" data-time="
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UnfairRepresent posted...

There's an entire episode dedicated to an alien fucking with his min and usins his deepest darkest most secret desires/weaknesses and history against him in an attempt to kill him. And it literally never comes up.

"Oh you gave up on Tennis because you weren't good enough to make it!" ...

Wut... Well for starters that's less of a big deal than secretly being gentically enchanced why not taunt him about that and point out that hes going to be fired and go to prison... and secondly why the fuck is Bashir not good enough to make it at Tennis when he is gentically enhanced?

It's a huge continuity error because the writers made up that he was enchanced on the spot

You should probably look up the episode you're talking about. The alien didn't taunt him because he wasn't good enough to play tennis professionally, he taunted him because Bashir quit tennis and focused on medicine because he thought his parents would disapprove of tennis. In fact, that same episode reveals that he intentionally missed a question on his medical exam that he knew the answer to, thus pushing him down to second in his class. That fits very nicely into the genetic enhancement plotline.
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Dukat, Garak, Eddington, Weyoun.

DS9 had the best baddies.
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The Admiral posted...

it was fairly absurd that he stayed first officer given the need for captains following Wolf 359

they wouldn't have needed captains until they built new ships. I think the quote for that in BoBW was 18 months, but that's always seemed a little ambitious to me. 18 months after BoBW would be mid season 5, and in the mean time Riker had a few hits on his record (the events of The Game, and The Outcast at least).

but, it's tv. the reasons in universe are always going to just have to be enough to justify the real world reasons.
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Am I the only one who didnt like Jadzia? Something about her annoyed me, but I can't really put my finger on why. I've only seen the first few seasons of DS9 though. Bashir also kinda annoyed me somewhat, but he was also likeable and interesting enough.
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Southernfatman posted...

Am I the only one who didnt like Jadzia? Something about her annoyed me, but I can't really put my finger on why. I've only seen the first few seasons of DS9 though. Bashir also kinda annoyed me somewhat, but he was also likeable and interesting enough.

I liked Jadzia. It was Ezri I hated.
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god damn, you have horrible opinions.
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I do?
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Southernfatman posted...

Am I the only one who didnt like Jadzia? Something about her annoyed me, but I can't really put my finger on why. I've only seen the first few seasons of DS9 though. .

She was okay but I think it was disappointing considering how much potential the character had.

Being friends with a memory retaining parasite who switched bodies is a really cool sci-fi idea but it never really amounted to much with Dax and Sisko.

I think that's largely to do with Sisko being boring tho. Nothing really to bounce off there.
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Medussa posted...

The Admiral posted...

it was fairly absurd that he stayed first officer given the need for captains following Wolf 359

they wouldn't have needed captains until they built new ships. I think the quote for that in BoBW was 18 months, but that's always seemed a little ambitious to me. 18 months after BoBW would be mid season 5, and in the mean time Riker had a few hits on his record (the events of The Game, and The Outcast at least).

but, it's tv. the reasons in universe are always going to just have to be enough to justify the real world reasons.

They had his clone, the actor could have stayed on the show. So the clone stay on the ship, and Riker goes off on his own.
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Well that was season 6 but yes that was the missed opportunity.
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I remember SF Debris suggesting that Riker go onto a different ship and becoming captain. Thomas Riker (the clone) could have stayed on Enterprise at his current rank and taken Data's role with him becoming first officer.
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At first I misread the topic and thought it said Voyager, not DS9. Was about to say "what, the Doctor is one of the only good things about Voyager"
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Sir Will posted...

Well that was season 6 but yes that was the missed opportunity.

It is so cool that you know what season that happen just off hand. I just know it happened in general .
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pegusus123456 posted...

I remember SF Debris suggesting that Riker go onto a different ship and becoming captain. Thomas Riker (the clone) could have stayed on Enterprise at his current rank and taken Data's role with him becoming first officer.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. It sounded like an idea with potential when he said it.
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cjsdowg posted...

Sir Will posted...

Well that was season 6 but yes that was the missed opportunity.

It is so cool that you know what season that happen just off hand. I just know it happened in general .

I watch a lot of sfdebris videos and this was one of the reviews he's done so I remembered about when it took place.
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Sir Will posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

I remember SF Debris suggesting that Riker go onto a different ship and becoming captain. Thomas Riker (the clone) could have stayed on Enterprise at his current rank and taken Data's role with him becoming first officer.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. It sounded like an idea with potential when he said it.

tv in that era was all about keeping the status quo. would have been a neat decision, but super unlikely at the time.
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Yeah, I know.
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