Current Events > The main character is always a Mary/Gary Sue

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Veggeta_EDGE
04/02/18 6:08:08 PM
#1:


How have you not know this yet?
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ElatedVenusaur
04/02/18 6:15:08 PM
#2:


Explain to me how the following characters fit that stereotype:

BoJack Horseman
Alexei "Alyosha" Fyodorovitch Karamazov
Alice(from Alice in Wonderland)
Brother William of Baskerville
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Veggeta X
04/02/18 6:17:40 PM
#3:


ElatedVenusaur posted...
Explain to me how the following characters fit that stereotype:

BoJack Horseman
Alexei "Alyosha" Fyodorovitch Karamazov
Alice(from Alice in Wonderland)
Brother William of Baskerville

For the most part it's true if you wanna be technical.
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pegusus123456
04/03/18 3:46:46 AM
#4:


Harry Potter is a massive fuck-up and one of his friends is better than he is in almost every respect.
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JustMonika
04/03/18 3:47:39 AM
#5:


Veggeta_EDGE posted...
How have you not know this yet?

Because it isn't true.
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#6
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The23rdMagus
04/03/18 3:57:41 AM
#7:


Harry Dresden says hi.
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Guerrilla Soldier
04/03/18 4:08:27 AM
#8:


carey sue
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 8:11:01 AM
#9:


pegusus123456 posted...
Harry Potter is a massive fuck-up and one of his friends is better than he is in almost every respect.

Okay if the main character isn't a Stu then one of his friends is.
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WSM Piru
04/03/18 8:12:14 AM
#10:


Another Veggeta X flopic roflmao
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Tyranthraxus
04/03/18 8:13:45 AM
#11:


Mary Sue / Gary Stu only exist in fanfiction. They are by definition restricted to fanfiction.
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pegusus123456
04/03/18 8:16:25 AM
#12:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Mary Sue / Gary Stu only exist in fanfiction. They are by definition restricted to fanfiction.

That's a dumb restriction.
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Tyranthraxus
04/03/18 8:18:18 AM
#13:


pegusus123456 posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Mary Sue / Gary Stu only exist in fanfiction. They are by definition restricted to fanfiction.

That's a dumb restriction.

It's literally the definition of the trope.
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pegusus123456
04/03/18 8:20:21 AM
#14:


Tyranthraxus posted...
It's literally the definition of the trope.

Definitions change. It's a dumb restriction.
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JE19426
04/03/18 8:21:22 AM
#15:


Veggeta X posted...
Okay if the main character isn't a Stu then one of his friends is.


Which one of Harry's friends is a Mary Sue?

Tyranthraxus posted...

It's literally the definition of the trope.


Who's definition?
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dave_is_slick
04/03/18 8:24:23 AM
#16:


Tyranthraxus posted...
pegusus123456 posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Mary Sue / Gary Stu only exist in fanfiction. They are by definition restricted to fanfiction.

That's a dumb restriction.

It's literally the definition of the trope.

No it isn't.
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Anarchy_Juiblex
04/03/18 8:32:25 AM
#17:


Tyranthraxus posted...
pegusus123456 posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Mary Sue / Gary Stu only exist in fanfiction. They are by definition restricted to fanfiction.

That's a dumb restriction.

It's literally the definition of the trope.


It's the original of the trope but the term is used in common parlance to insult poorly written characters with certain attributes.
Stop trying to defend mediocrity with socially tone deft arguments about definitions.
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#18
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Darkman124
04/03/18 8:58:17 AM
#19:


Tyranthraxus posted...
pegusus123456 posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Mary Sue / Gary Stu only exist in fanfiction. They are by definition restricted to fanfiction.

That's a dumb restriction.

It's literally the definition of the trope.


no, it's the original example on which the trope is based.

fundamentally, the trope is a main character who never faces significant individual adversity and triumphs handily over each obstacle, while simultaneously charming each other character they interact with throughout the story. it's a character that outshines the rest of their cast and leaves you wondering why the rest of the cast is in the story at all.

luke skywalker isn't one because he's rarely successful on his own and typically highly reliant on the efforts of other characters.

james bond is frequently one--despite his missions being serious dramatic conflicts--because he personally tends to bulldoze his opponents while charming every woman he meets, with his female love interests typically facing the adversity that was meant for him.
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 9:03:10 AM
#20:


WSM Piru posted...
Another Veggeta X flopic roflmao

Whose alt is this?
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 9:05:52 AM
#21:


Darkman124 posted...
luke skywalker isn't one because he's rarely successful on his own and typically highly reliant on the efforts of other characters.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!! You gotta be kidding me. Yes from time to time the main character will get his ass kicked and need the help of his friends but regardless in the end he will persevere.
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#22
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JE19426
04/03/18 9:07:43 AM
#23:


Veggeta X posted...
Yes from time to time the main character will get his ass kicked and need the help of his friends but regardless in the end he will persevere.


Anyone who gets their ass kicked is clearly not perfect and therefore not a Mary Sue.
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 9:10:08 AM
#24:


JE19426 posted...
Anyone who gets their ass kicked is clearly not perfect and therefore not a Mary Sue.

Well by that definition no one is a Stu.
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JE19426
04/03/18 10:02:06 AM
#25:


Veggeta X posted...

Well by that definition no one is a Stu.


If you say so.
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:03:55 AM
#26:


Naw you said so.
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JE19426
04/03/18 10:10:14 AM
#27:


Veggeta X posted...
Naw you said so.


Strange. I don't recall saying that and according to the post it was said by you. So I'd have to say it was you who said that.
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EndOfDiscOne
04/03/18 10:17:42 AM
#28:


The23rdMagus posted...
Harry Dresden says hi.


I don't think he's a Mary Sue, but my only real complaint with the series is that he "wins" at the end of every book. Granted there's usually a great cost, but with 15 books I want the bad guys to win every once in a while. Like with the MCU.
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:18:00 AM
#29:


You said it and I was merely repeating what you said.
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JE19426
04/03/18 10:19:22 AM
#30:


Veggeta X posted...
You said it and I was merely repeating what you said.


Quote where I said it.
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:21:20 AM
#31:


You were implying it. Stop being so technical.
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JE19426
04/03/18 10:22:42 AM
#32:


Veggeta X posted...
You were implying it.


Quote where I implied it then.
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Irony
04/03/18 10:22:57 AM
#33:


I don't see him implying it
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:24:41 AM
#34:


JE19426 posted...
Anyone who gets their ass kicked is clearly not perfect and therefore not a Mary Sue.

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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:25:12 AM
#35:


Irony posted...
I don't see him implying it

If I said water is wet you'd fight to the end of the world to disagree with me. Get out of here.
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JustMonika
04/03/18 10:25:16 AM
#36:


Why're you arguing with not-vegy?
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Sad_Face
04/03/18 10:25:32 AM
#37:


Darkman124 posted...
fundamentally, the trope is a main character who never faces significant individual adversity and triumphs handily over each obstacle, while simultaneously charming each other character they interact with throughout the story. it's a character that outshines the rest of their cast and leaves you wondering why the rest of the cast is in the story at all.


This is the most significant and destructive trait of a Mary Sue. You can have a character who's more overwhelmingly powerful than the rest of the cast, but it becomes a problem when said character devalues the rest of the cast and trivializes the problems occurred in the storyline. And that's incredibly easy to do when you've written a character who's practically God among his storyline. Kakegurui and Mob Psycho 100 (manga/anime examples, sorry guys) come to mind that handle overpowered characters very well.
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pegusus123456
04/03/18 10:25:49 AM
#38:


If you want an example of a Gary Stu, look towards the Sword of Truth series. Its protagonist is the very definition of one. He pulls new abilities out of his ass at the drop of his hat, every woman he meets falls in love, he's the key in every prophecy they find, he's able to tame vicious wild animals, the list goes on.

And I only read like three books.
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JE19426
04/03/18 10:27:02 AM
#39:


Veggeta X posted...
JE19426 posted...
Anyone who gets their ass kicked is clearly not perfect and therefore not a Mary Sue.


You seem to have quoted the wrong post as nothing in that post implies that their's no such thing as a Mary Sue.
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:27:12 AM
#40:


Sad_Face posted...
This is the most significant and destructive trait of a Mary Sue. You can have a character who's more overwhelmingly powerful than the rest of the cast, but it becomes a problem when said character devalues the rest of the cast and trivializes the problems occurred in the storyline. And that's incredibly easy to do when you've written a character who's practically God among his storyline. Kakegurui and Mob Psycho 100 (manga/anime examples, sorry guys) come to mind that handle overpowered characters very well.

Nope. The main character should always be priority or else you'll get a shit show like Naruto where the second character is greater or equal to the main character. Harry Potter should focus on Harry for the most part.
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:27:58 AM
#41:


pegusus123456 posted...
If you want an example of a Gary Stu, look towards the Sword of Truth series. Its protagonist is the very definition of one. He pulls new abilities out of his ass at the drop of his hat, every woman he meets falls in love, he's the key in every prophecy they find, he's able to tame vicious wild animals, the list goes on.

And I only read like three books.

Nothing and no one beats Batman in terms of asspulls.
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:28:33 AM
#42:


JE19426 posted...
Veggeta X posted...
JE19426 posted...
Anyone who gets their ass kicked is clearly not perfect and therefore not a Mary Sue.


You seem to have quoted the wrong post as nothing in that post implies that their's no such thing as a Mary Sue.

Oh so you just have a very subjective definition of what is and isn't a Stu?
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JE19426
04/03/18 10:28:44 AM
#43:


Veggeta X posted...
Nope. The main character should always be priority or else you'll get a shit show like Naruto where the second character is greater or equal to the main character. Harry Potter should focus on Harry for the most part.


You can focus on a character without devalueing the rest of the cast.
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pegusus123456
04/03/18 10:29:36 AM
#44:


Veggeta X posted...
pegusus123456 posted...
If you want an example of a Gary Stu, look towards the Sword of Truth series. Its protagonist is the very definition of one. He pulls new abilities out of his ass at the drop of his hat, every woman he meets falls in love, he's the key in every prophecy they find, he's able to tame vicious wild animals, the list goes on.

And I only read like three books.

Nothing and no one beats Batman in terms of asspulls.

Trust me. Richard outshines Batman. Even the introductory paragraph from his wiki helps illustrate what I mean.


Richard Rahl, also known as Richard Cypher, is the Lord Rahl of D'Hara and the Master of the D'Haran Empire. In addition, he was named the rightful Seeker of Truth, was the first war wizard to be born in over three thousand years, and was the husband of the Mother Confessor of all the Midlands, Kahlan Amnell.

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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:29:41 AM
#45:


But you can't let a non-progonist outshine the progatanist.
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Irony
04/03/18 10:30:02 AM
#46:


Not according to Kishimoto
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Veggeta X
04/03/18 10:30:40 AM
#47:


Nothing beats Batman's wealth and utility belt. Don't give a fuck what anyone says.
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Samaellives91
04/03/18 10:31:15 AM
#48:


ElatedVenusaur posted...
Explain to me how the following characters fit that stereotype:

BoJack Horseman

Didn't die from that weeks long drugs and drink binge that killed Sara-Lynn.

Has there ever been a self aware character who knows they are a M/Gary Sue/tu?

Other than Rick Sanchez?
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JE19426
04/03/18 10:31:51 AM
#49:


Veggeta X posted...
Oh so you just have a very subjective definition of what is and isn't a Stu?

What's more subjective about the definition of "a perfect character with a significant presence in the story" then your definition.

But you can't let a non-progonist outshine the progatanist.


I'm not sure what that has to do with any posts here but ok.
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pegusus123456
04/03/18 10:34:02 AM
#50:


Veggeta X posted...
Nothing beats Batman's wealth and utility belt. Don't give a fuck what anyone says.

There's one point where Richard fights off about two dozen attackers with his magic sword with no prior training using an ability that had never been hinted at before and doing so proves to the attacking tribe that he is their chosen one and he later uses magic which he wasn't taught to use to bring down centuries old magic towers that keep the tribe imprisoned.

Going off memory and wiki skimming, so details might be wrong
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