Current Events > Conservative commentator threatens sexual assault on teen shooting survivor

(+) Yeah! (+)

there is absolutely no evidence this psycho was bullied or that bullying in any way contributed to his behavior and implying otherwise is a means of deflection and a way or absolving him of guilt. he has a long history of being human scum, that is why he did what he did
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

Ive already explained that were going off of very recent reports. Bullying can turn good kids into monsters. If bullying occurred (which me and CableZL both agree occurred), it is certainly possible it led to the snowball effect of events that led to the shooting.

And if you seriously think bullying has no negative effect/consequence on anybody, psychopath or not, I have a bridge in Idaho to sell you.

You're claiming that Emma Gonzalez, specifically, is a bully and her bullying was partially responsible. I agree that it's possible he was bullied, but I disagree that Emma Gonzalez is a bully. Speaking out angrily against someone who just killed your classmates isn't evidence of bullying.
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fenderbender321 posted...

Axiom posted...

Are people still blaming the victims and saying they bullied him. JFC what is wrong with you people

There's always something we as free people can do to reduce the chances of bad things happening. That doesn't mean that if we don't do those things that it's our 'fault' when something bad does happen. We should stop conflating these separate concepts and labeling everything as victim blaming.

provide evidence that he was bullied and that it directly contributed to his actions, if you can't do that you are attempting to deflect to blame the victims. being bullied doesnt cause people to commit mass murder
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why do people still engage with kanjo
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darkjedilink posted...

Heineken14 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Amplifiers posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

Ok, he's a survivor.

His understanding of guns is still on-par with the average teenage kid, that is, fuck-all.

Who cares if he understands the intricacies of firearms?

It does make it easier to take gun grabbers seriously if they know more than precisely nothing about firearms.

If knowing what you're talking about was a requirement, there would be very little the right would actually get a say on then. Not really sure you want to stick to that criteria.

So why do you have a problem with it? Because it would pretty much kill most liberal talking points, especially relating to race relations, inequality in America, gun control, and climate change?

Literally "no u."

Lolol, no wonder you're a Donnie worshiper with such brilliant thought as that.
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

I agree that bullying could have contributed to his actions.

Wouldnt this make you a victim blamer by your own definition?

No, because I'm not stating bullying DID contribute to his actions. Only that it's possible that it could have. I'm also not trying to twist a victim's emotional statements into an admission of bullying like you have been this whole topic.
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

26_Sandman_39 posted...

.Im saying some bullies may have been partially responsible

Which is wrong. This dude was a creepy sociopath that disturbed everyone that death with him. He did this because he was insane.

Ive already explained that were going off of very recent reports. Bullying can turn good kids into monsters. If bullying occurred (which me and CableZL both agree occurred), it is certainly possible it led to the snowball effect of events that led to the shooting.

And if you seriously think bullying has no negative effect/consequence on anybody, psychopath or not, I have a bridge in Idaho to sell you.

That implies this guy had feelings to hurt.
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

More like Im more than 50% sure, and that YOU are 100% sure she is not a bully based off your own misunderstanding of what she actually said.

You're "more than 50% sure" based on nothing but your own anecdotal stories. Emma Gonzalez angrily talking about someone who killed her classmates being ostracized because of his previous violent/racist/homophobic behaviors isn't an admission of bullying, no matter how hard you want to spin it.
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

No, because I'm not stating bullying DID contribute to his actions.

And I said likely, not absolutely did. You and I are on the same page with this sentiment. Meaning both of us are victim blamers or neither of us. Take your pick.

Just realized that guy who accused me of being conservative got out of here REAL QUICK when I mentioned my support of Bernie lmaooo

i am still here and you are unable to offer a rebuttal for anything i have posted.

as an actual bernie supporter i am calling you a liar, you constantly post right wing talking points so your claim is clearly bullshit
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

And I said likely, not absolutely did. You and I are on the same page with this sentiment. Meaning both of us are victim blamers or neither of us. Take your pick.

Just realized that guy who accused me of being conservative got out of here REAL QUICK when I mentioned my support of Bernie lmaooo

We aren't both on the same page because you're accusing a specific person who is speaking out angrily of being a bully just because she's speaking out angrily. You're also claiming to be able to measure how angry she is at the fact that her friends are dead and how angry she is at being accused of being a bully.
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

Hey man. Weve been over this a thousand times. I already conceded to a point you made which is now way earlier in this topic, unfortunately. But now since you felt the need to attack me and label me a victim blamer - tell me - how is it we both agree bullying may have been a part of this happening yet when I make that statement Im the victim blamer? Why are you dodging this?

I'm not dodging this at all.

CableZL posted...

We aren't both on the same page because you're accusing a specific person who is speaking out angrily of being a bully just because she's speaking out angrily. You're also claiming to be able to measure how angry she is at the fact that her friends are dead and how angry she is at being accused of being a bully.

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"I'm not victim blaming. Just saying that everyone, including the victims, can contribute to less rapes. Women can wear less sexy clothing and stop flirting, for example".
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

I already told you youre not going to get past this. You should have stopped and not wasted either of our times. Arguing further is just a bigger circle of disagreements and repeated arguments from both sides I dont wish to participate further in.

Now accept being a victim blamer and move on.

LOL. I'd say it's more likely that you don't wish to participate further because you realize how ridiculous your claims are at this point. Trying to claim that she's "more angry about being called a bully than she is about her friends being dead" by saying "she has shown that in her speeches" is absolutely ridiculous.

You can't positively measure how upset someone is at two slightly related topics. You also can't positively say she's "pulling shit" just because she isn't acting exactly the same as some of her other classmates.
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

Delirious_Beard posted...

why do people still engage with kanjo

why do your posts only consist of this

replace kanjo with any user you dont like

why do your posts only consist of you having meltdowns
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fenderbender321 posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

"I'm not victim blaming. Just saying that everyone, including the victims, can contribute to less rapes. Women can wear less sexy clothing and stop flirting, for example".

I'm not taking the bait on this one.

But I will say this...you can wear your seatbelt to reduce your chance of critical injuries and death in the case of a drunk driver running a red light and slamming into your car.

You're not taking the bait? Spreading the blame around on mass slaughters is fine, but rape is too far?
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

"I'm not victim blaming. Just saying that everyone, including the victims, can contribute to less rapes. Women can wear less sexy clothing and stop flirting, for example".

This is not remotely comparable.

A rapist is a rapist who decides to rape the second be decides he wants to be a rapist. It has nothing to do with the victim.

If an entire school bullies you to suicide, its partially their fault. You are directly at fault for killing yourself, but your classmates are indirectly at fault.

Same with a school shooting (if that was the motive).

People like you that pretend there are no consequences to bullying somebody are a major part of why bully culture continues to exist and makes the liklihood of suicides/school shootings even greater had the bullying not existed. I cant believe this is a concept worth arguing against, let alone pretending to not understand it.

Your definition of a rapist is a whole lot of nothing. Why is it out of the question that something contributes to someone becoming a rapist besides "deciding to rape", but we have to consider all possible influences when it comes to shooting up a place? Why does one piece of garbage get partially off the hook?

I think there should be plenty of consequences for bullying. I was mercilessly bullied for most of my school life and considered killing myself. Bullying makes a killer as much as violent media does.
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millions of people are bullied, and in fact i would think the majority of people are at some point. blaming bullying for someone going on a murderous rampage is both victim blaming and disgusting, and in this case it is completely unfounded with no evidence to support it. just a disingenuous way for people to shift blame away from the killer
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

CableZL posted...

26_Sandman_39 posted...

I already told you youre not going to get past this. You should have stopped and not wasted either of our times. Arguing further is just a bigger circle of disagreements and repeated arguments from both sides I dont wish to participate further in.

Now accept being a victim blamer and move on.

LOL. I'd say it's more likely that you don't wish to participate further because you realize how ridiculous your claims are at this point.

To think I respected you enough to engage you in an actual debate. What the fuck was I thinking?

At least I know now that youre unwilling to concede to anything, and that youre more hellbent on being right / making the other side look foolish than coming to a mutual understanding of knowledge from both ends, ergo the purpose of a debate.

Youre still trying to argue this when Ive stated multiple times that Im done and conceded to something that you yourself said. Shouldnt that satisfy you? I guess not, you want to
continue wasting your time arguing and getting upset that I didnt 100% agree with you.

I want to make this clear. I am done. You can make up any excuse you like, but I already explained to you why Im done so theres no need to waste your time addressing it or arguing further. Just know that any respect I had for you during this entire discussion has been lost and I will aim to make sure that there is a mutual level of respect if you ever try to engage me further.

A sad attempt to avoid explaining how you claim to be able to measure how angry Emma is at one thing vs another. Just admit that you can't. It isn't that hard.

You seem to resort to condescending statements every time you don't want to further explain your ridiculous claims.
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

andel posted...

provide evidence that he was bullied and that it directly contributed to his actions, if you can't do that you are attempting to deflect to blame the victims.

what are you talking about? That has nothing to do with whether or not it's right to label it as victim blaming. I haven't passed judgment on the girl and her friends in question. They called him a psycho, which might mean they weren't nice to him, but we don't know that and I already stated that. That doesn't mean it's wrong to say that maybe we shouldn't ostracize other students, even if it's entirely intuitive and understandable and justified that somebody did it (such as if they are violent and hostile). You have to understand that both can exist at the same time.

fenderbender321 posted...

Since I edited my post earlier, you guys might have missed it.

I think one way to put it is to say 'we all' can do things to reach out to people and treat them better and hopefully make this place safer as a result. Whether you're the survivor of a tragedy or know of somebody you could have reached out to or if you're just an average guy like me who has fortunately never had to experience anything that traumatic...we can all make a difference. You can't say it's victim blaming if we're saying that 'everyone' (which obviously includes victims) can make a difference.

That's really all I'm saying. Maybe trying to make a difference comes with other risks, so it's entirely understandable that people don't completely agree with taking those risks to try and benefit in another one. The entire matter is complex. We can't discuss this on such simple terms and let certain key words dictate what is and is not moral.

Also great posts that wont get addressed unfortunately.

You're siding with a guy who says the age of consent should be 9.

PtlessAgmnts posted...

You're siding with a guy who says the age of consent should be 9.

What the fuck?!
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PtlessAgmnts posted...

26_Sandman_39 posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

andel posted...

provide evidence that he was bullied and that it directly contributed to his actions, if you can't do that you are attempting to deflect to blame the victims.

what are you talking about? That has nothing to do with whether or not it's right to label it as victim blaming. I haven't passed judgment on the girl and her friends in question. They called him a psycho, which might mean they weren't nice to him, but we don't know that and I already stated that. That doesn't mean it's wrong to say that maybe we shouldn't ostracize other students, even if it's entirely intuitive and understandable and justified that somebody did it (such as if they are violent and hostile). You have to understand that both can exist at the same time.

fenderbender321 posted...

Since I edited my post earlier, you guys might have missed it.

I think one way to put it is to say 'we all' can do things to reach out to people and treat them better and hopefully make this place safer as a result. Whether you're the survivor of a tragedy or know of somebody you could have reached out to or if you're just an average guy like me who has fortunately never had to experience anything that traumatic...we can all make a difference. You can't say it's victim blaming if we're saying that 'everyone' (which obviously includes victims) can make a difference.

That's really all I'm saying. Maybe trying to make a difference comes with other risks, so it's entirely understandable that people don't completely agree with taking those risks to try and benefit in another one. The entire matter is complex. We can't discuss this on such simple terms and let certain key words dictate what is and is not moral.

Also great posts that wont get addressed unfortunately.

You're siding with a guy who says the age of consent should be 9.

the guy is totally a bernie supporter that just happens to constantly agree with alt right posters and regurgitate conservative talking points
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

Because nothing a potential victim will do will ever turn someone into a rapist, but the same cannot be said for every murderer.

This is absolute bullshit.

Mass shooters, by their very nature, are violent people who are looking for even the slightest excuse to go off and shoot a bunch of people. I had it rough through middle school. You know what I didn't do? Pick up a gun and decide to shoot a bunch of classmates, most of whom had nothing to do with why I was frustrated.

That's what you're doing. You're making excuses for his actions.
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

Pot and kettle?

You're not helping yourself. The reason I'm not arguing with you about anything further is because I already argued it a plethora of times. You keep repeating yourself when I do. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

Yeah, I believe that just like I believe you have some magical ability to measure how angry Emma Gonzalez is at her friends being dead vs being accused of being a bully.

It's a ridiculous notion and you know it.
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

CableZL posted...

26_Sandman_39 posted...

Pot and kettle?

You're not helping yourself. The reason I'm not arguing with you about anything further is because I already argued it a plethora of times. You keep repeating yourself when I do. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

Yeah, I believe that just like I believe you have some magical ability to measure how angry Emma Gonzalez is at her friends being dead vs being accused of being a bully.

It's a ridiculous notion and you know it.

I already argued that she seems to get more upset about being a bully than anything to do with her classmates being dead. Evidence: her speeches.

It's not magic, it's reasonable deduction.

You have no evidence.

Shut the hell up.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

26_Sandman_39 posted...

Because nothing a potential victim will do will ever turn someone into a rapist, but the same cannot be said for every murderer.

This is absolute bullshit.

Mass shooters, by their very nature, are violent people who are looking for even the slightest excuse to go off and shoot a bunch of people. I had it rough through middle school. You know what I didn't do? Pick up a gun and decide to shoot a bunch of classmates, most of whom had nothing to do with why I was frustrated.

That's what you're doing. You're making excuses for his actions.

You can just tell Sandman is a loose cannon himself who's been brainwashed by the glorification of violence and vengeance in American culture. Honestly, dude should be monitored, he always seems very unhinged.

So

Why is it cool for Hogg to say everyone who disagrees with him are implicit in murdering kids but no one's allowed to say less nasty things about him
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WrkHrdPlayHrdr posted...

I'm a conservative for the most part. Socially I'm more left leaning. But two things:

1) I will NEVER understand how people get so butthurt about this guy.
2) I worry some nut job will do something to this kid.

it will take more than my entire life to understand what 'you are'.......
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26_Sandman_39 posted...

I already argued that she seems to get more upset about being a bully than anything to do with her classmates being dead. Evidence: her speeches.

It's not magic, it's reasonable deduction.

It's not a reasonable deduction at all. Her being upset about her friends being dead and her being upset about being called a bully aren't two things that emotions would be 100% isolated over, nor are you able to deduct how angry she is at one or the other based on how she happens to be speaking on a certain day. The two things don't exist apart from each other, and the accusation that she herself is a bully is based on a bullshit right wing talking point that you regurgitate every chance you get.
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