Board 8 > I just got back from midnight Avengers screening

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, we'll need to wait till Avengers 4 to see which deaths will stick and which won't. I could see Gamora being brought back by giving up the soul stone and I think Loki's death (and the characters introduced in Ragnarok) will depend on whether Chris Hemsworth wants to do anymore Thor. I think that's why that scene is intentionally ambiguous for those characters, so they don't have any loose ends hanging around if they don't make any more Thor movies. He does, the tesseract saved them; he doesn't, Thanos killed them all.

So many of the big players contracts are up, so only Spider-Man, the Guardians and probably Captain Marvel are safe from the permanent chop in 4.
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Pokalicious posted...

I don't have comic knowledge, but no way Gamora isn't in the next GotG movie. So I expect her to come back.

Now that you mention it I could see GotG3 being about finding a way to save Gamora. If the first movie was about Peter's mother, and the second was about his father, the last could be about his love.
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Ant-Man, Black Panther, Falcon and Dr. Strange are all signed for multi-picture deals as well.
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Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3: The Search For Gamora
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Ant-Man, Black Panther, Falcon and Dr. Strange are all signed for multi-picture deals as well.

Ditto for them then.
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I guess the only really worrying thing is that the Big Three contracts are for sure up. I'm not sure even Widow is done yet.
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Just left the theater. Thor was the best part of the movie.
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turns out it wasn't even Hugo weaving? Sounded like him
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LapisLazuli posted...

There is a bit of jaded annoyance, sadly.

Obviously the characters just straight up slaughtered by Thanos are gone, but its very obvious that all of the "poofed" characters are gonna come back. They have announced movies for the most part, for one. It's a side effect of these huge announcement plans, and knowing that, like....of course Spiderman isn't gone, do you think we're idiots?

Still a great watch.

Eh, to me, this feels like setting up the old guard for one last hurrah before they move off the scene since just about all of them survived. I don't think anyone expects Thanos's genocide to stand, and Marvel knows it, too. I don't think they feel like they just fooled everyone into thinking they perma-killed a bunch of characters.
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bryans7 posted...

The theme of the movie seemed to be Sacrifice, and what people were willing to do to achieve their goals.

Star-Lord wasn't willing to sacrifice Gamora (until it was too late), Gamora wasn't willing to sacrifice Nebula, Scarlet Witch wasn't willing to sacrifice Vision (until it was too late), Cap wasn't willing to sacrifice ANYTHING. Even Loki wasn't willing to sacrifice Thor at the beginning. Any one of them could have made the sacrifice and stopped him from gaining or learning where the stones were.

Only Thanos was willing to make the sacrifice to get what he wanted by killing Gamora. Except for Dr. Strange, who sacrificed the Time Stone to save Stark. He made it very clear he didn't care about anything but protecting the stone. I assume that whatever future he saw where they were successful, Stark was alive. So he knew the only chance they had was to make sure Stark was alive, even if it meant sacrificing the stone.

Kinda. Except that this is a very common trope. Frequently the difference between the hero and the villain in many works is whether or not they allow their goals or needs to overcome their bonds to others. Stereotypically, the heroes never do. It just so happens that Thanos has a much more developed sacrifice arc than you usually see.

I'd also argue that Strange also sacrified. He gave up the time stone, essentially committed suicide, for what he hoped was the only timeline that would actually save everyone. Vision, too, was prepared to make that sacrifice, and ultimately Scarlet Witch executed it, even if it ended up being for nothing.
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Fucking awesome movie
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I know this might sound like a stretch, but that might be the best film I've seen since The Dark Knight. Loved that nearly every important character got adequate screen time, loved the use and development of Thanos, the Red Skull appearance, and the battles on Titan and Wakanda. I felt nearly every emotion possible in almost 3 hours, and that's what helped make this movie amazing.

Even if you don't think it's perfect, I'm glad most of us are on the same page on it being an excellent watch.
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Did Proxima Midnight remind you guys of anyone?

I couldn't place it for most of the movie, but towards the end I was like, holy shit, she sounds exactly like Kerrigan. This bitch is the Queen of Blades! She even looks like her! The Queen of Blades is fucking our heroes shit up!

This is a video with Kerrigan's voice that sounds really similar to it, amongst many other examples. Though there are many times where she's less infested where she doesn't sound like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVbeoSPqRs4" data-time="



Or maybe it's just me. I looked into it and I don't think there's any kind of actor connection. It seems coincidental.
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That movie was just a bummer. The individual character arcs are all rushed and underdeveloped, specific character motivations are very questionable in atleast a half dozen different occasions but the biggest problem is it's just too stuffed with too many characters, but they don't spend enough time with any of them and they all end up feeling somewhat inconsequential to the story at large. I mean, all plays a part, but all plays a very small part. The set pieces are just too numerous and too brief and scattershot and the movie never leaves enough room for the scenes to breathe and calm down. It's just a big special effect extravaganza, which I'm sure appeals to people who get excited by pretty colors, but I actually want a good story. But there's no time to tell a good story, there are too many characters to stuff in there and too many action set pieces to put on display... Overall it's just a mess of a movie and the fact that the next movie is supposed to have even more characters stuffed into it makes me seriously concerned...

Actually I thought they balanced all the characters and in accordance with their popularity/what they can contribute quite well. Also I'm a huge fan of all the different locations, helped keep a sense of scope for the story.
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That's certainly one interpretation. And one I expected I would agree with beforehand. However, I think the execution was actually reasonably decent. Assuming, of course, that you don't dislike the style of MCU movies in the first place.
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Djungelurban posted...

That movie was just a bummer. The individual character arcs are all rushed and underdeveloped, specific character motivations are very questionable in atleast a half dozen different occasions but the biggest problem is it's just too stuffed with too many characters, but they don't spend enough time with any of them and they all end up feeling somewhat inconsequential to the story at large. I mean, all plays a part, but all plays a very small part. The set pieces are just too numerous and too brief and scattershot and the movie never leaves enough room for the scenes to breathe and calm down. It's just a big special effect extravaganza, which I'm sure appeals to people who get excited by pretty colors, but I actually want a good story. But there's no time to tell a good story, there are too many characters to stuff in there and too many action set pieces to put on display... Overall it's just a mess of a movie and the fact that the next movie is supposed to have even more characters stuffed into it makes me seriously concerned...

I think this is actually completely wrong. They did all the things you think they should have done, and that's why it's so good. It's so much more than a special effect extravaganza. Yeah, there's a lot of characters, but they are all handled appropriately and used exactly when and where they need to be. There's quite a few characters that have their own engaging character lines that work out well, but the big one is Thanos, and boy is his well done.

Lightning Strikes said it best with this post

Lightning Strikes posted...

Saw it, loved it. Really impressed with how strong the performances were with that massive cast, and how much the film hinged on character and story when it could've very easily been a fanservice-laden smash fest.

There are other similar movies that lean on the spectacle of it all and think that will carry the movie. This isn't that.
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Great film. Some criticisms, but it was nice how much screen time Thanos got.

I do think its funny though that all of the original avengers survived Thanos's"wipe". I mean we know why because Avengers 4 is about their final mission and pass the torch, but its supposed to be "random" in the film right? Also I'm assuming Nebula survives because shes going to die to somehow bring back Gamora, even if Gamora didn't vanish away and was thrown off the cliff.

And don't worry about the Hulk not smashing, he'll be smashing the fuck outta people next year
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I did think the movie was a bit too rushed character development wise, but considering the scope of the movie I gave it an easy pass. It's honestly great that it wasn't a giant confusing mess. I thought all the different heroes' development were as balanced as they could be without the thing ending up 9 hours long.

LapisLazuli posted...

There is a bit of jaded annoyance, sadly.

Obviously the characters just straight up slaughtered by Thanos are gone, but its very obvious that all of the "poofed" characters are gonna come back. They have announced movies for the most part, for one. It's a side effect of these huge announcement plans, and knowing that, like....of course Spiderman isn't gone, do you think we're idiots?

I disagree. The way I felt watching the movie was that it was obvious a lot of things are going to being reset from the very beginning, so I think it would have been dumber to only kill minor characters as if it was going to stick. Might as well kill off characters that we all know are going to come back anyway just for the drama of it. It would be more insulting to try and be subtle with it and only kill off minor characters.

The only problem I have is how Thanos got basically every Stone in the movie because another character let him get it to save someone else. I hate that plot point in general, but the fact that nearly EVERY stone was gotten this way made it worse.

Apparently in the credits it listed a character from Arrested Development as being in the movie, but I missed who it was.

Also, where the hell was Hawkeye?

Also, also, did anyone feel like super bad for Thor? That guy went through the ringer.

Also, also, also, how the hell is Agents of SHIELD going to handle that ending? That said I stopped watching, so I don't know what's going on there now, or if this will even affect it.
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Grand Kirby posted...

Also, where the hell was Hawkeye?

He and Ant Man were both still angry about Civil War.
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The arrestes development character is a blue Tobias in one of the Collector's glass cages. He's got his shorts on.
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I'm kind of stunned how well balanced that was considering the gargantuan cast. That ending is by far the ballsiest thing Marvel has ever done, I was legit kind of in awe after how safe they've been playing it literally since Iron Man 1. Obviously we're getting most of those characters back but seeing such an utter defeat and then hard cutting to credits on a content, victorious Thanos was fucking glorious, god damn.
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Also goddamn Spiderman dying. Those sons of bitches. Fucking sons of bitches. That was absolutely excruciating to watch. Him "not wanting to go". My god.
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I'm pretty sure the Hulk's problem is he has never been completely dominated before and he's scared of Thanos.
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Also pretty great how everyone dying around Tony mirrors the vision that Wanda gave him in Age of Ultron. Spiderman dying in his arms really reminded me of Cap in said vision.
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Grand Kirby posted...

The only problem I have is how Thanos got basically every Stone in the movie because another character let him get it to save someone else. I hate that plot point in general, but the fact that nearly EVERY stone was gotten this way made it worse.

Didn't he only get the Time Stone this way? He had to kill Gamora for one, killed the Collector for another one, and they tried to destroy the Mind Stone by sacrificing Vision, but since he had the Time Stone, it backfired.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Grand Kirby posted...

The only problem I have is how Thanos got basically every Stone in the movie because another character let him get it to save someone else. I hate that plot point in general, but the fact that nearly EVERY stone was gotten this way made it worse.

Didn't he only get the Time Stone this way? He had to kill Gamora for one, killed the Collector for another one, and they tried to destroy the Mind Stone by sacrificing Vision, but since he had the Time Stone, it backfired.

And the Space Stone. Loki gave it up to save Thor. Still though only 2 stones.
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Not really though since that was just a Loki ploy since "we have a Hulk."

Either way the person I feel most bad for coming out of this movie is Killmonger. After Loki had a stranglehold on "Best MCU Villain" for like 8 years, Killmonger turns out to be nothing more than a transitional champion once Thanos hellmurdered him.
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Plus plus you could argue that Thanos got zero of the stones by giving them up since they pretty much clubbed you over the head with Strange's one winning future scenario obviously had Tony alive in it, so he was just playing to the endgame there.
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I mean I'd still personally put Killmonger over Thanos but Thanos is not slouching in the least bit, really really good job with him
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I think Killmonger was better because I think it's easier to look better when you're so fucking powerful and effortlessly kill main characters

Like Killmonger could never have looked as fucking beastly as Thanos did in this movie

Both are characterized very well but I think Killmonger does a lot of interesting stuff with "less".
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LeonhartFour posted...

Grand Kirby posted...

The only problem I have is how Thanos got basically every Stone in the movie because another character let him get it to save someone else. I hate that plot point in general, but the fact that nearly EVERY stone was gotten this way made it worse.

Didn't he only get the Time Stone this way? He had to kill Gamora for one, killed the Collector for another one, and they tried to destroy the Mind Stone by sacrificing Vision, but since he had the Time Stone, it backfired.

Soul Stone too with Gamora/Nebula

Really digging the FF6 comparison

Killmonger is still the best villain imo
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I wish I didn't hate going to the cinemas so I could watch this now.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Grand Kirby posted...

The only problem I have is how Thanos got basically every Stone in the movie because another character let him get it to save someone else. I hate that plot point in general, but the fact that nearly EVERY stone was gotten this way made it worse.

Didn't he only get the Time Stone this way? He had to kill Gamora for one, killed the Collector for another one, and they tried to destroy the Mind Stone by sacrificing Vision, but since he had the Time Stone, it backfired.

I'm counting Soul too, since Gamora gave him the location to save Nebula. And Mind, although not a direct example, if they hadn't waited so long to sacrifice Vision he wouldn't have gotten it, so it falls under the same cliche of the "choosing to save a life over a MacGuffin even when that's the worst possible outcome" for me.

However, in retrospect I realize that it works as a nice parallel to how Thanos didn't do that in order to get the Soul Stone. He was the only person willing to choose the stone over a person's life. If that was an intentional theme used to counterpoint The Avengers actions vs Thanos then that is actually really interesting. I might take back my criticism in that case.
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Metal_DK posted...

Great film. Some criticisms, but it was nice how much screen time Thanos got.

I do think its funny though that all of the original avengers survived Thanos's"wipe". I mean we know why because Avengers 4 is about their final mission and pass the torch, but its supposed to be "random" in the film right? Also I'm assuming Nebula survives because shes going to die to somehow bring back Gamora, even if Gamora didn't vanish away and was thrown off the cliff.

And don't worry about the Hulk not smashing, he'll be smashing the fuck outta people next year

It's actually kind of weird, since it's supposed to be a half deal, but of the people on Titan, we had two survivors (Nebula and Tony) out of, like, 7? WHERE'S THE HALF, THANOS!!!

They made it pretty reasonably clearly half on Earth.
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Like I said, I think it was done that way to have Stark's worst nightmare come true, to kind of replicate the vision he had at the start of Age of Ultron.
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Just saw it today. It's weird to say, but I guess the feeling I was left with was.... impressed? I've never been big into reading comics, but what I have seen/know about made me a bit of a fan of Thanos. And I think, despite changing things up the movie did a pretty good job with the character.
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Speaking of the end

Rocket is the only Guardian to be left behind ='(
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Grand Kirby posted...

I'm counting Soul too, since Gamora gave him the location to save Nebula. And Mind, although not a direct example, if they hadn't waited so long to sacrifice Vision he wouldn't have gotten it, so it falls under the same cliche of the "choosing to save a life over a MacGuffin even when that's the worst possible outcome" for me.

However, in retrospect I realize that it works as a nice parallel to how Thanos didn't do that in order to get the Soul Stone. He was the only person willing to choose the stone over a person's life. If that was an intentional theme used to counterpoint The Avengers actions vs Thanos then that is actually really interesting. I might take back my criticism in that case.

I feel like that's absolutely the point, and it's why I don't count Soul. Gamora gave up the location, but Thanos still had to give up something to get it. Thanos repeatedly talks about willpower, and he proves he has the will to do what others won't.

Tokoyami posted...

Speaking of the end

Rocket is the only Guardian to be left behind ='(

At least we've still got the best one.
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Started strong. Tapered off in the middle. Ended strong. Overall was a great experience. the part where Peter Parker fades away in Stark's arms was legitimately gutwrenching. Amazing acting in that bit.
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The stuff about will with Thanos is actually really good. Despite being a genocidal warmongering space tyrant with unlimited power, he's actually rather compassionate, and it's not just towards Gamora. He genuinely respects his opponents like Stark, and he empathizes with the Scarlet Witch after she sacrifices Vision. He doesn't mock anybody, and he doesn't enjoy what he's doing. Killing people doesn't bring him pleasure, he actually seems to feel kind of bad about it, but he just won't let feelings like that get in the way of doing what he feels like he has to do.
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Actually, I think that any major complaints about the movie I have can be traced back to Gamora. She's one of the few MCU characters who I have never been on board with. Character design feels off (instead of looking like an actual alien like the other humanoid aliens, she just looks like the actress slapped on some face paint) and the acting direction seems off. And Gamora is a major character in this one so yeeeah.
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I think Gamora looks great, but I do feel like the performance has always felt off. I certainly don't buy her as "the fiercest woman in the galaxy". Like if you dropped her in a room full of bad guys I don't really feel like she would wreck all of their shit like I do with.... almost every other hero in the MCU.

She's "okay" but I don't find her exciting in the least like I thought I would before GotG premiered.
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I actually laughed at "fiercest woman in the galaxy".
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Gamora was pretty good in GotG2 I thought, but she's definitely "whatever" in GotG1 and in this movie.
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the only two things I did not like in the movie:

When Heimdall dies, he flops into frame and the background music goes DUN DUN DUNNNNNN like what the hell is that shit

Proxima Midnight had to fight Scarlet Witch, Okoye and Black Widow because "girl"

those are both nitpicks yeah i don't care it bugged me

good movie
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Grand Kirby posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

Grand Kirby posted...

The only problem I have is how Thanos got basically every Stone in the movie because another character let him get it to save someone else. I hate that plot point in general, but the fact that nearly EVERY stone was gotten this way made it worse.

Didn't he only get the Time Stone this way? He had to kill Gamora for one, killed the Collector for another one, and they tried to destroy the Mind Stone by sacrificing Vision, but since he had the Time Stone, it backfired.

I'm counting Soul too, since Gamora gave him the location to save Nebula. And Mind, although not a direct example, if they hadn't waited so long to sacrifice Vision he wouldn't have gotten it, so it falls under the same cliche of the "choosing to save a life over a MacGuffin even when that's the worst possible outcome" for me.

However, in retrospect I realize that it works as a nice parallel to how Thanos didn't do that in order to get the Soul Stone. He was the only person willing to choose the stone over a person's life. If that was an intentional theme used to counterpoint The Avengers actions vs Thanos then that is actually really interesting. I might take back my criticism in that case.

I mean... I think most people failing to make the sacrifice is kind of the point. All of those characters couldn't make the sacrifices that needed to be made for their side to win. It underscored Thanos point that life couldn't make the sacrifices needed for life to continue. It's totally the theme of the movie. It's also why he tells Star Lord he likes him after he tries to shoot Gamorra. He recognizes that Quill will make the hard decision. It's why he shows such sympathy to Scarlet Witch. She is making sacrifice to succeed just as he does, and just as he thinks life needs to to be able to survive and maintain.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Actually, I think that any major complaints about the movie I have can be traced back to Gamora. She's one of the few MCU characters who I have never been on board with. Character design feels off (instead of looking like an actual alien like the other humanoid aliens, she just looks like the actress slapped on some face paint) and the acting direction seems off. And Gamora is a major character in this one so yeeeah.

It felt to me like they were trying to hastily assemble reasons for people to care about her. I'm half-expecting, half-hoping that they just tag her out for Nebula in future Guardians movies. Nebula got more interesting character development in Vol 2 than Gamora has period, and since she survived Infinity War she gets another movie worth of screentime over Gamora.

The rest of the movie was good. It was basically everything I expected but actually executed well. I was impressed that they crammed so much stuff in, and it had a good balance between serious and comedic scenes that helped the jokes to land.
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