Current Events > "Basic human nature"

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A lot of people keep saying that X or Y behavior "is just basic human nature", but I've never seen anyone qualify that. How do you determine what is "basic human nature", and what's the complement of it that makes up the rest of human behavior?
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It's in our nature to destroy ourselves
It's in our nature to kill ourselves
It's in our nature to kill each other
It's in our nature to kill, kill, kill
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Literally just had this topic yesterday in the form of its only human.

Basic human nature is to look out for your own interests even at the expense of others

It's why a pure communal utopia with perfect equity can never and will never exist
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Basic human nature is to look out for your own interests even at the expense of others

It's why a pure communal utopia with perfect equity can never and will never exist

Can you qualify this?
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scar the 1 posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Basic human nature is to look out for your own interests even at the expense of others

It's why a pure communal utopia with perfect equity can never and will never exist

Can you qualify this?

Denying it is like denying that the sky is blue and that the sun is bright.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

scar the 1 posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Basic human nature is to look out for your own interests even at the expense of others

It's why a pure communal utopia with perfect equity can never and will never exist

Can you qualify this?

Denying it is like denying that the sky is blue and that the sun is bright.

There are a lot of people in the world who don't fit this description. People who work with organizations like Doctors Without Borders, political systems that are geared such that every individual has good minimum conditions at the expense of the top, etc. These things surely came from humans, too, but why aren't they part of basic human nature?
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DevsBro posted...

It's in our nature to destroy ourselves
It's in our nature to kill ourselves
It's in our nature to kill each other
It's in our nature to kill, kill, kill

Infest is probably my favor album.
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"X is a justified conclusion because basic human nature makes it a justified conclusion"

It's a way for people to sneakily assume their prior conclusion while maintaining the appearance of objectivity.
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scar the 1 posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

scar the 1 posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Basic human nature is to look out for your own interests even at the expense of others

It's why a pure communal utopia with perfect equity can never and will never exist

Can you qualify this?

Denying it is like denying that the sky is blue and that the sun is bright.

There are a lot of people in the world who don't fit this description. People who work with organizations like Doctors Without Borders, political systems that are geared such that every individual has good minimum conditions at the expense of the top, etc. These things surely came from humans, too, but why aren't they part of basic human nature?

And every one of those systems, DWB included, have had scandals and corruption.
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COVxy posted...

"X is a justified conclusion because basic human nature makes it a justified conclusion"

It's a way for people to sneakily assume their prior conclusion while maintaining the appearance of objectivity.

Yeah this is what it seems like. I mean Coffebeanz's response is so facetious that I feel like she's trolling me.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

And every one of those systems, DWB included, have had scandals and corruption.

Yeah, but they also have people who aren't selfish. Why is only one side basic human nature and not the other?
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Basic human nature is to look out for your own interests even at the expense of others

It's why a pure communal utopia with perfect equity can never and will never exist

human nature is not static it's heavily informed by our environment. if an environment encourages a certain kind of behaviour, it stands to reason that most people in that environment will exhibit such behaviour.
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Looking out, across the nighttime
The city winks a sleepless eye
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Leave 1000 babies in a place devoid of other humans, attended only by robots. Let's see what they grow up to, and then we'll have a good view of what human nature really is.
*sample too small. get more babies*
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Laserion posted...

Leave 1000 babies in a place devoid of other humans, attended only by robots. Let's see what they grow up to, and then we'll have a good view of what human nature really is.
*sample too small. get more babies*

the flaw in this is not the sample size, but the idea that human nature exists in a vacuum and would be unchanged by complete isolation from other humans.
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Laserion posted...

Leave 1000 babies in a place devoid of other humans, attended only by robots. Let's see what they grow up to, and then we'll have a good view of what human nature really is.
*sample too small. get more babies*

So being influenced by a previous generation isn't part of basic human nature?
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A lot of it is just being intellectually lazy. I mean, you can reason most behaviors to be "human nature" but the environment and circumstances that give rise to those behaviors are often aberrant. It's like taking a cornered rat, getting bit by it, and concluding rats are vicious and aggressive by nature. They are when put into that circumstance but it's something they would rather avoid

Problem with trying to conclude something about human nature is that the vast majority of people are living in the aberrant state of civilization. Civilization conditions people to accept and reinforce its tenets and legitimacy and thus make excuses for it and blame the behaviors it gives rise to on something like 'human nature'.

averagejoel posted...

the flaw in this is not the sample size, but the idea that human nature exists in a vacuum and would be unchanged by complete isolation from other humans.

Yeah

Just thinking aloud but I kind of wonder if the term human nature itself is misleading insofar as people seem to use it refer more to the "animal" nature of humans (i.e. more elementary, subconscious, or immediate behaviours) whereas what seems more uniquely human is the more conscious engagement with those through society
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Pitlord_Special posted...

A lot of it is just being intellectually lazy. I mean, you can reason most behaviors to be "human nature" but the environment and circumstances that give rise to those behaviors are often aberrant. It's like taking a cornered rat, getting bit by it, and concluding rats are vicious and aggressive by nature. They are when put into that circumstance but it's something they would rather avoid

Problem with trying to conclude something about human nature is that the vast majority of people are living in the aberrant state of civilization. Civilization conditions people to accept and reinforce its tenets and legitimacy and thus make excuses for it and blame the behaviors it gives rise to on something like 'human nature'.

I had never really thought about it this way before it's kinda like the opposite of the way I look at it but I do appreciate this take and consider it a valid one
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InYourWalls1 posted...

averagejoel posted...

the flaw in this is not the sample size, but the idea that human nature exists in a vacuum and would be unchanged by complete isolation from other humans.

Yeah

Just thinking aloud but I kind of wonder if the term human nature itself is misleading insofar as people seem to use it refer more to the "animal" nature of humans (i.e. more elementary, subconscious, or immediate behaviours) whereas what seems more uniquely human is the more conscious engagement with those through society

also, the robots were designed by humans. they were programmed with specific behaviours. those are going to have a significant effect on the outcome too
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I'm more curious how people make a meaningful distinction.

How can human behavior be anything other than natural human behavior?

Dragonblade01 posted...

I'm more curious how people make a meaningful distinction.

How can human behavior be anything other than natural human behavior?

Yes, this is part of my point. Thanks
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