Poll of the Day > Has my art improved? Open to any and all criticism, even harsh or 'not helpful'.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Making this topic here since from memory it was here that I originally made a topic like this about a year or two ago, so wanted to hear opinions.

Here's a recently finished piece of artwork: https://imgur.com/g1em6LF

Here's an older one: https://imgur.com/xknn4gq

And an in-between one: https://imgur.com/DiVwPxG

Also if the first looks weird, imgur isn't showing transparent stuff right on my iPad unless I view it in full screen. So uh, hopefully on PC or whatever that link works fine. Otherwise ignore the weird effects of the fire.

Feel free to be as brutally honest as you want, I personally think the older one is horrible, and that the newest one is 'okay' (for my standards) but nothing 'great'.
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It doesn't look like it's changed much to me other than something resembling a background.
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I have high standards for art but really I think that's just cause I'm somewhat jealous I can't draw well. It definitely looks better now though, keep at it!
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Worse
Bulbasaur- Cute even if a bit lopsided
Riolu- the way you drew the 3 dimensional nose in 2d looks off. Gives me an unpleasent feeling looking at it
Charzard(?)- Very Bad. Eyes are ugly and he has way too many teeth(Charzard has two top fangs and two bottom fangs only). Looks ugly and creepy. Body is good though just not the terrible face
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Thanks for the replies!

As for the Charizard head, I made it and knew it looked nothing like charizard's head, but liked how it looked anyway. (And was struggling to make something look like the head so just stuck with what I had managed to get)
Oddly the core body (torso) was the part I liked the least. XD

Yeah, perspective and spacial reasoning (3D to 2d, angles, dimensions, etc) have always been my weakest points.

aHappySacka posted...

It doesn't look like it's changed much to me other than something resembling a background.

Most don't have backgrounds now anyway, that one I just clumped it together because I had a little thought and ran with it. Honestly think the volcano should be further back or otherwise it looks out of place.
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The Bulbasaur looks better than the others. idk, I don't want to crap on your stuff (particularly because it takes cojones to put your art out there), but the arms and legs on Charizard & Riolu look kinda wonky. The Bulbasaur seems passable -- like a stylized version -- whereas Riolu just looks bad and Charizard's features are a bit off (plus that's not a great pose). I like the shading and textures, though.
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What are you making that poor lizard eat?
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Zeus posted...

The Bulbasaur looks better than the others. idk, I don't want to crap on your stuff (particularly because it takes cojones to put your art out there), but the arms and legs on Charizard & Riolu look kinda wonky. The Bulbasaur seems passable -- like a stylized version -- whereas Riolu just looks bad and Charizard's features are a bit off (plus that's not a great pose). I like the shading and textures, though.

Thanks for the feedback. ^_^

SmokeMassTree posted...

What are you making that poor lizard eat?

Other fire type Pokemon.
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Im bad at all things art, but if you want to get better I would recommend just investing a ton of time into to practice like anything else

Potd could always use more pokemon drawings
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I see little to no improvement among the three of them. I would have believed you if you said they were drawn on the same day. I would suggest drawing with a pencil and paper. You do not want to be relying on technology at this stage. Ideally, I don't think you should be drawing any kind of anime, and preferably real people to start, but you gotta have fun too. However you will be copying any of the artist's errors, so keep that in mind. If you want to be casual about it, draw all the anime you want. If you want to get serious, study anatomy and draw people in front of you, ideally not from pictures. Draw bones, muscles, hands, feet, eyes, the face, from every angle. That knowledge can be applied to future drawings, which includes the fantasy variety.

To be fair, the drawing skill level presented in anime has a very wide range. Personally, if you insisted on drawing from anime, I would suggest looking at Avatar: The Last Airbender and the Legend of Korra. Really inspiring stuff. The shows retain good anatomical accuracy and have tons of fight scenes where you can see the body in action from different angles.

A good book to read is Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, by Betty Edwards. It was written by an art teacher who over the course of her career analyzed how her students were learning. An EXCELLENT book and extremely valuable to an artist just starting out.

Anyways good luck, idk what your goals are. But right now I can tell you have a lot of work ahead of you, which will require a lot of self discipline if you want to get good.
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TheGreatNoodles posted...

Yeah, perspective and spacial reasoning (3D to 2d, angles, dimensions, etc) have always been my weakest points.

Just work on this and it'll improve a ton. Practice using different line sizes. things that are supposed to be more "forward" should have darker lines than things that should appear "back". For the Charizard picture, the torso, the legs and the tail should have 3 different line sizes since all 3 should be on different depths. I'm not sure what kind of tools you're using.

Or, see those molten meteor things? Notice how they all look exactly the same? Larger ones will appear to be more forward while smaller ones will appear to be farther back. Lines work the same way.
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This seems to go against a lot of the feedback but I really like the Riolu. I think its nose looks fine actually but maybe it should be a little wider. The shading on its face looks a bit confusing because it looks like it has stubble.

Also, I think its arm that is pointing up looks like too much like a geometric construction and it doesnt look natural just curving up th way it is. Theres something a little off about the fingers and toes but I cant really express it.
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I actually really like that charizard picture.
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Overall, I think you're doing better. Like I told you last time, trying a different software might suit your style more. The flash software isn't doing you any favors.

I think if you're doing the head, you should zoom in and focus on the head and the head alone, then move on to other parts. The fact that me squinting fixes most of the problems means all you have to do is add more detail.

The wings actually look really good, but the shading of the software ruins them through no fault of your own.

https://imgur.com/yzxY17Y
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Overall that's a good "sketch", if you go over it paying attention to the details and fixing your mistakes it will look much better. Like someone else said use pen and paper probably.
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Why is char shovelling down pine cones 4 at a time
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SilverClock posted...

Ideally, I don't think you should be drawing any kind of anime,

I actually wasn't basing it on the anime (haven't seen it) and was thinking of the games, but that doesn't change anything of what you've said.
I'll check if the library has that book if not I'll look online for a copy (sadly no book store in this town <<).

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone!
Especially you @Yellow . Although I'm surprised how different the colours ended up on your end compared to mine (which I know happens).
I generally zoom in and out a lot and isolate certain layers on/off.
The wings were what I made first since they seemed the easier part.

AllstarSniper32 posted...

TheGreatNoodles posted...

Yeah, perspective and spacial reasoning (3D to 2d, angles, dimensions, etc) have always been my weakest points.

Just work on this and it'll improve a ton. Practice using different line sizes. things that are supposed to be more "forward" should have darker lines than things that should appear "back". For the Charizard picture, the torso, the legs and the tail should have 3 different line sizes since all 3 should be on different depths. I'm not sure what kind of tools you're using.

Or, see those molten meteor things? Notice how they all look exactly the same? Larger ones will appear to be more forward while smaller ones will appear to be farther back. Lines work the same way.

I learnt about this sort of stuff during my Cert III IDM course, but keep forgetting to use it and whilst I know I shouldn't, keep making all lines the same 'stroke'. I don't know why, just bugs me if something is stroke 1.348 instead of stroke 1. But I'll put more effort into trying to actually to use what I was taught. XD
I'm using illustrator, and as someone else suggested maybe having access to the tools is detrimental to me.
The meteors were added at the very end when I just had a random thought and went with it. XD
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Here's a different newer one and probably the one I like the most:

https://imgur.com/wfWSUIN
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Note: I didn't change the colors on purpose. I am just partly colorblind. Supervillain origins, every color I see is a little dull except yellow.

The white background is because I threw it in paint and that got rid of the transparency.

The Vinosaur is actually pretty dang good and it makes me doubt telling you to use ArtRage.
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Now try adding shade.
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Yellow posted...

Note: I didn't change the colors on purpose. I am just partly colorblind. Supervillain origins, every color I see is a little dull except yellow.

Huh, that's interesting. (Over text this sounds sarcastic but it is interesting to hear how such a seemingly simple thing like a username can have such meaning)

Yellow posted...

The Vinosaur is actually pretty dang good and it makes me doubt telling you to use ArtRage.

Thanks!!
I'll still Google ArtRage when I get the free time tomorrow though, even if it's just to take a gander at what it is. ^_^
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TheGreatNoodles posted...

I'm using illustrator, and as someone else suggested maybe having access to the tools is detrimental to me.

It shouldn't be. As long as you're applying techniques properly. And since you said something about the stroke size, it sounds like you're just using a mouse. It would definitely be better if you were using something that was pressure sensitive.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

TheGreatNoodles posted...

I'm using illustrator, and as someone else suggested maybe having access to the tools is detrimental to me.

It shouldn't be. As long as you're applying techniques properly. And since you said something about the stroke size, it sounds like you're just using a mouse. It would definitely be better if you were using something that was pressure sensitive.

I use a pressure sensitive tablet and stylus, but have pressure sensitivity turned off due to the aforementioned silly 'things must be consistent' approach.
I also use the laptop's touchpad for certain parts, but that's more for making sure I click not 'click and accidentally nudge it slightly'.
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It won't be good until you start drawing stuff from your own imagination.

I think last time I said something like "You should try some traditional art" and you responded by saying you were really bad at it. But I still really think it could help you flesh out a style. Right now they're kinda lifeless and I think part of that is because you're only working digitally.
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TheGreatNoodles posted...

I use a pressure sensitive tablet and stylus, but have pressure sensitivity turned off due to the aforementioned silly 'things must be consistent' approach.

Now you know a solution to help you out. Don't worry about line size numbers, just make sure the lines look right. Turn off the display showing the numbers if you have to.

wah_wah_wah posted...

It won't be good until you start drawing stuff from your own imagination.

Nope, this is untrue.

Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I think last time I said something like "You should try some traditional art" and you responded by saying you were really bad at it. But I still really think it could help you flesh out a style. Right now they're kinda lifeless and I think part of that is because you're only working digitally.

Doing some traditional art would be good, but it being digital isn't why it's lifeless.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

Nope, this is untrue.

How many people are drawing shit they see in video games? It reflects a boring mind.

Drawing from your imagination would require TC to draw upon knowledge that he has gathered from previous drawings, which he doesn't have much of. He is a beginner and needs to study value, lighting, composition, anatomy, perspective, etc. Drawing from life every day will help a lot. Targeted study, like drawing 100 hands in different poses, learning where the muscles attach, what bones are where and why that causes light to land a certain way on the human body, can help a lot too. Copying Pokemon or anything from a video game is not ideal. It's not useless..it's better than nothing of course. Just not ideal if he really wants to learn in a short amount of time.
You can draw from imagination as an exercise to test how much you have retained and to gauge your understanding.
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They iight
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SilverClock posted...

Drawing from your imagination would require TC to draw upon knowledge that he has gathered from previous drawings, which he doesn't have much of. He is a beginner and needs to study value, lighting, composition, anatomy, perspective, etc. Drawing from life every day will help a lot. Targeted study, like drawing 100 hands in different poses, learning where the muscles attach, what bones are where and why that causes light to land a certain way on the human body, can help a lot too. Copying Pokemon or anything from a video game is not ideal. It's not useless..it's better than nothing of course. Just not ideal if he really wants to learn in a short amount of time.
You can draw from imagination as an exercise to test how much you have retained and to gauge your understanding.

The art is still bad. It's like saying someone who is 15 with a driver's permit is a great driver simply because he's learning. No, not really.

wah_wah_wah posted...

SilverClock posted...

Drawing from your imagination would require TC to draw upon knowledge that he has gathered from previous drawings, which he doesn't have much of. He is a beginner and needs to study value, lighting, composition, anatomy, perspective, etc. Drawing from life every day will help a lot. Targeted study, like drawing 100 hands in different poses, learning where the muscles attach, what bones are where and why that causes light to land a certain way on the human body, can help a lot too. Copying Pokemon or anything from a video game is not ideal. It's not useless..it's better than nothing of course. Just not ideal if he really wants to learn in a short amount of time.
You can draw from imagination as an exercise to test how much you have retained and to gauge your understanding.

The art is still bad. It's like saying someone who is 15 with a driver's permit is a great driver simply because he's learning. No, not really.

Stating your nonprofessional opinion as a fact? K.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

It won't be good until you start drawing stuff from your own imagination.

I actually have done that as well, just decided to only show the Pokemon stuff. XD

Pus_N_Pecans posted...

I think last time I said something like "You should try some traditional art" and you responded by saying you were really bad at it. But I still really think it could help you flesh out a style. Right now they're kinda lifeless and I think part of that is because you're only working digitally.

Well, I'll give it another shot. ^_^

SilverClock posted...

Drawing from your imagination would require TC to draw upon knowledge that he has gathered from previous drawings, which he doesn't have much of. He is a beginner and needs to study value, lighting, composition, anatomy, perspective, etc. Drawing from life every day will help a lot. Targeted study, like drawing 100 hands in different poses, learning where the muscles attach, what bones are where and why that causes light to land a certain way on the human body, can help a lot too. Copying Pokemon or anything from a video game is not ideal. It's not useless..it's better than nothing of course. Just not ideal if he really wants to learn in a short amount of time.
You can draw from imagination as an exercise to test how much you have retained and to gauge your understanding.

This is probably not gonna help my case, but I have been drawing for quite awhile. Even completed a Cert III Interactive Digital Media course way back at school (2014/15) and before that did 3D art stuff as well, which getting lighting was far easier in 3D than 2D.
But yeah, for someone trying to get better at proper body sizing it probably isn't helpful to be working on fictional creatures, xD
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I feel like Charizard was noticeably worse than the others.

TheGreatNoodles posted...

This is probably not gonna help my case, but I have been drawing for quite awhile. Even completed a Cert III Interactive Digital Media course way back at school (2014/15) and before that did 3D art stuff as well, which getting lighting was far easier in 3D than 2D.
But yeah, for someone trying to get better at proper body sizing it probably isn't helpful to be working on fictional creatures, xD

How much time have you spent practicing geometry, anatomy, and perspective? I'm surprised you have been drawing a while
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Doctor Foxx posted...

How much time have you spent practicing geometry, anatomy, and perspective? I'm surprised you have been drawing a while

Not as much as I should be gathering from this topic.
I don't think I've gone out if my way to study/practice those particular aspects, just always knew "I'm bad at that".
But I'll try drawing stuff (alongside other projects) not with the goal to make a finished art piece, but to practice those three things. ^_^

Doctor Foxx posted...

I feel like Charizard was noticeably worse than the others.

That's seemingly the general consensus here, which at first was surprisingly considering I felt the Charizard was far better than the Bulbasaur. XD
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The most benefit I had from art classes was practicing techniques that were crucial for understanding how to break things down to paper. That meant hundreds of drawings of things I didn't care about so I could better understand what I did want to draw

It's tedious but essential for improvement
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The first thing you really have to learn or really unlearn is to stop drawing with your brain. Unless you have eidetic memory you need to have an image or object in front of you to be able to actually convey likeness. Cartoons are one thing but really you shouldn't be drawing cartoons until you have the basics down with realistic drawing, anatomy and especially proportions are vital to creating visually appealing work.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

AllstarSniper32 posted...

Nope, this is untrue.

How many people are drawing shit they see in video games? It reflects a boring mind.

I'll listen to what my college art teacher said over anything you're going to say on the subject.
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It looks like you are ready for contemporary kids cartoons.

wah_wah_wah posted...

SilverClock posted...

Drawing from your imagination would require TC to draw upon knowledge that he has gathered from previous drawings, which he doesn't have much of. He is a beginner and needs to study value, lighting, composition, anatomy, perspective, etc. Drawing from life every day will help a lot. Targeted study, like drawing 100 hands in different poses, learning where the muscles attach, what bones are where and why that causes light to land a certain way on the human body, can help a lot too. Copying Pokemon or anything from a video game is not ideal. It's not useless..it's better than nothing of course. Just not ideal if he really wants to learn in a short amount of time.
You can draw from imagination as an exercise to test how much you have retained and to gauge your understanding.

The art is still bad. It's like saying someone who is 15 with a driver's permit is a great driver simply because he's learning. No, not really.

...What? How does that relate to what I said?? Yes the art is not good (I agree, that is fact). Because TC is learning doesn't make him good yet. Obviously? What? I don't get why I was quoted here.

Andromicus posted...

The first thing you really have to learn or really unlearn is to stop drawing with your brain.

To elaborate on this...as I don't think you fully explained your point. Lotta times we have a picture in our head of what something is supposed to look like. Not what it actually looks like. Iirc the book I recommended actually has a chapter on that phenomenon. One exercise in it has you drawing something upside down so that your brain doesn't attach these misconceptions to your drawing.

TheGreatNoodles posted...

This is probably not gonna help my case, but I have been drawing for quite awhile.

It absolutely will not help your case. The proof is in the pudding. People will say "Oh I've been drawing for this many years." when in reality, how much of that time was spent drawing? How many drawings have you done? Of what subjects? For how many hours? You can have a person on the street creating relatively the same piece of artwork for years and not show much improvement. At the end of the day, no one will be looking at your degrees. They'll be looking at your portfolio. You need to study and practice.

Doctor Foxx posted...

The most benefit I had from art classes was practicing techniques that were crucial for understanding how to break things down to paper. That meant hundreds of drawings of things I didn't care about so I could better understand what I did want to draw

It's tedious but essential for improvement

Preach
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SilverClock posted...

wah_wah_wah posted...

SilverClock posted...

Drawing from your imagination would require TC to draw upon knowledge that he has gathered from previous drawings, which he doesn't have much of. He is a beginner and needs to study value, lighting, composition, anatomy, perspective, etc. Drawing from life every day will help a lot. Targeted study, like drawing 100 hands in different poses, learning where the muscles attach, what bones are where and why that causes light to land a certain way on the human body, can help a lot too. Copying Pokemon or anything from a video game is not ideal. It's not useless..it's better than nothing of course. Just not ideal if he really wants to learn in a short amount of time.
You can draw from imagination as an exercise to test how much you have retained and to gauge your understanding.

The art is still bad. It's like saying someone who is 15 with a driver's permit is a great driver simply because he's learning. No, not really.

...What? How does that relate to what I said?? Yes the art is not good (I agree, that is fact). Because TC is learning doesn't make him good yet. Obviously? What? I don't get why I was quoted here.

Andromicus posted...

The first thing you really have to learn or really unlearn is to stop drawing with your brain.

To elaborate on this...as I don't think you fully explained your point. Lotta times we have a picture in our head of what something is supposed to look like. Not what it actually looks like. Iirc the book I recommended actually has a chapter on that phenomenon. One exercise in it has you drawing something upside down so that your brain doesn't attach these misconceptions to your drawing.

TheGreatNoodles posted...

This is probably not gonna help my case, but I have been drawing for quite awhile.

It absolutely will not help your case. The proof is in the pudding. People will say "Oh I've been drawing for this many years." when in reality, how much of that time was spent drawing? How many drawings have you done? Of what subjects? For how many hours? You can have a person on the street creating relatively the same piece of artwork for years and not show much improvement. At the end of the day, no one will be looking at your degrees. They'll be looking at your portfolio. You need to study and practice.

Doctor Foxx posted...

The most benefit I had from art classes was practicing techniques that were crucial for understanding how to break things down to paper. That meant hundreds of drawings of things I didn't care about so I could better understand what I did want to draw

It's tedious but essential for improvement

Preach

But he's clearly not drawing a previously-existing picture of a Pokemon in his most recent image. He's drawing something from his imagination, using Pokemon imagery.

SilverClock posted...

...What? How does that relate to what I said?? Yes the art is not good (I agree, that is fact). Because TC is learning doesn't make him good yet. Obviously? What? I don't get why I was quoted here.

If you can't understand why what I said is relevant (and I'm not leading a horse to water here), your argument also fails because he's clearly not drawing a previously-existing picture of a Pokemon in his most recent image. He's drawing something from his imagination, using Pokemon imagery as a crutch, which is not necessary.

It's not bad, but it's certainly too simple.
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Isn't illustrator vector-based? Try using a program built for tablets. One came bundled with mine, it's pretty solid. Idr the name.

Anyway, yeah there's a bit of improvement since it looks like you're starting to apply shading.

My one suggestion would be to try working with just pens or a pencil and focusing on black and white. Try and put more emphasis on accurately capturing form and dimension; grids help marvelously for this. Jumping straight into figure drawings like that will leave them wonky looking (as seen in Bulbasaur) and is more detrimental long run imo

Just gotta keep at it and never stop.