Poll of the Day > Trump brushes off Kim's human rights record and advocates for dictatorships.

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WastelandCowboy 06/14/18 2:27:12 AM #1:	http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/392174-trump-brushes-off-kims-human-rights-record-saying-a-lot-of-others President Trump is brushing aside concerns about North Korean leader Kim Jong Uns human-rights abuses as he seeks to broker a nuclear deal with the young autocrat. Pressed by Fox New's Brett Baier in an interview about Kim's oppression of his own people, Trump said: Yeah, but so have a lot of other people have done some really bad things. Trump downplays Kim Jung Un's totalitarian dictatorship. BAIER: "He has done some really bad things." TRUMP: "Yeah, but so have a lot of other people have done some really bad things. I mean, I could go through a lot of nations where a lot of bad things were done." pic.twitter.com/AZxnuXQTqi Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 13, 2018 Asked about his decision to negotiate with a known killer, Trump praised the North Korean leader for being a tough guy who managed to take control of his country at a young age. I dont care who you are, what you are, what kind of advantage you have, Trump said of Kim, whose family has controlled North Korea since its creation. If you can do that at 27 years old, you, I mean, that's one in 10,000 that can do that. Trump went on to call Kim a very smart guy and a great negotiator in the interview, which was aired Wednesday. I think we understand each other, he said. Trump has faced worldwide criticism for his lavish praise of Kim, which came after a contentious Group of Seven summit during which he ripped U.S. allies. After meeting with Kim, Trump called him a very talented man who is a funny guy and loves his people. Human Rights Watch last year labeled North Korea one of the most repressive authoritarian states in the world. Kim is accused by the United Nations Human Rights Council and watchdog groups of carrying out public executions, arbitrary detention and forced labor, torture and persecution of those with religious affiliations. Just last year, Kim was also accused of orchestrating the execution of his half-brother at a Malaysia airport with a banned nerve agent. Trump said he raised the issue of human rights briefly with Kim during their nuclear summit in Singapore. The president's comments echo his response during a Feb. 2017 Fox News interview to a question about Russian President Vladimir Putin's human-rights abuses. Asked by then-anchor Bill O'Reilly why he respects Putin, given that he is a "killer," Trump said, "There are a lot of killers. We've got a lot of killers. What, you think our country is so innocent?" <cite>WastelandCowboy posted [p:903218973] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/392174-trump-brushes-off-kims-human-rights-record-saying-a-lot-of-others <quote>President Trump is brushing aside concerns about North Korean leader Kim Jong Uns human-rights abuses as he seeks to broker a nuclear deal with the young autocrat. Pressed by Fox New's Brett Baier in an interview about Kim's oppression of his own people, Trump said: Yeah, but so have a lot of other people have done some really bad things. Trump downplays Kim Jung Un's totalitarian dictatorship. BAIER: "He has done some really bad things." TRUMP: "Yeah, but so have a lot of other people have done some really bad things. I mean, I could go through a lot of nations where a lot of bad things were done." pic.twitter.com/AZxnuXQTqi Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 13, 2018 Asked about his decision to negotiate with a known killer, Trump praised the North Korean leader for being a tough guy who managed to take control of his country at a young age. I dont care who you are, what you are, what kind of advantage you have, Trump said of Kim, whose family has controlled North Korea since its creation. If you can do that at 27 years old, you, I mean, that's one in 10,000 that can do that. Trump went on to call Kim a very smart guy and a great negotiator in the interview, which was aired Wednesday. I think we understand each other, he said. Trump has faced worldwide criticism for his lavish praise of Kim, which came after a contentious Group of Seven summit during which he ripped U.S. allies. After meeting with Kim, Trump called him a very talented man who is a funny guy and loves his people. Human Rights Watch last year labeled North Korea one of the most repressive authoritarian states in the world. Kim is accused by the United Nations Human Rights Council and watchdog groups of carrying out public executions, arbitrary detention and forced labor, torture and persecution of those with religious affiliations. Just last year, Kim was also accused of orchestrating the execution of his half-brother at a Malaysia airport with a banned nerve agent. Trump said he raised the issue of human rights briefly with Kim during their nuclear summit in Singapore. The president's comments echo his response during a Feb. 2017 Fox News interview to a question about Russian President Vladimir Putin's human-rights abuses. Asked by then-anchor Bill O'Reilly why he respects Putin, given that he is a "killer," Trump said, "There are a lot of killers. We've got a lot of killers. What, you think our country is so innocent?"</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 06/14/18 2:30:41 AM #2:	I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:903219081] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WastelandCowboy 06/14/18 2:34:27 AM #3:	Zeus posted... I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well. Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement. <cite>WastelandCowboy posted [p:903219201] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well.</quote> Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 06/14/18 2:38:42 AM #4:	WastelandCowboy posted... Zeus posted... I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well. Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement. This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past, to keep things moving. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:903219327] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>WastelandCowboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well.</quote> Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement.</quote> This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past, to keep things moving.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
zebatov 06/14/18 2:38:55 AM #5:	What makes a great negotiator? Someone with something someone else wants? Or someone with something someone else doesn't want them to use? Easy to negotiate when you're armed. --- lolmodhagomi <cite>zebatov posted [p:903219338] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>What makes a great negotiator? Someone with something someone else wants? Or someone with something someone else doesn't want them to use? Easy to negotiate when you're armed.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 06/14/18 2:45:02 AM #6:	Zeus posted... WastelandCowboy posted... Zeus posted... I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well. Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement. This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving. I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:903219511] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>WastelandCowboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well.</quote> Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement.</quote> This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving.</quote> I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 06/14/18 2:51:04 AM #7:	darkknight109 posted... Zeus posted... WastelandCowboy posted... Zeus posted... I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well. Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement. This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving. I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait. With such exceedingly narrow goalposts, it seems like the question is designed for a wait. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:903219696] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>WastelandCowboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well.</quote> Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement.</quote> This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving.</quote> I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait.</quote> With such exceedingly narrow goalposts, it seems like the question is designed for a wait.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WastelandCowboy 06/14/18 2:53:32 AM #8:	Zeus posted... darkknight109 posted... Zeus posted... WastelandCowboy posted... Zeus posted... I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well. Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement. This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving. I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait. With such exceedingly narrow goalposts, it seems like the question is designed for a wait. ~~In other words, Zeus doesnt have any explanation or answers for you.~~ <cite>WastelandCowboy posted [p:903219777] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>WastelandCowboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well.</quote> Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement.</quote> This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving.</quote> I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait.</quote> With such exceedingly narrow goalposts, it seems like the question is designed for a wait.</quote> In other words, Zeus doesnt have any explanation or answers for you.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 06/14/18 2:54:05 AM #9:	Zeus posted... darkknight109 posted... Zeus posted... WastelandCowboy posted... Zeus posted... I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well. Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement. This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving. I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait. With such exceedingly narrow goalposts, it seems like the question is designed for a wait. Yes, "US president treats a mass-murdering asshole like a minor deity" is extremely narrow goal posts because only one of them has ever done it. That's the point. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:903219794] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>WastelandCowboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well.</quote> Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement.</quote> This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving.</quote> I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait.</quote> With such exceedingly narrow goalposts, it seems like the question is designed for a wait.</quote> Yes, "US president treats a mass-murdering asshole like a minor deity" is extremely narrow goal posts because only one of them has ever done it. That's the point.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 06/14/18 2:56:08 AM #10:	WastelandCowboy posted... Zeus posted... darkknight109 posted... Zeus posted... WastelandCowboy posted... Zeus posted... I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well. Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement. This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving. I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait. With such exceedingly narrow goalposts, it seems like the question is designed for a wait. ~~In other words, Zeus doesnt have any explanation or answers for you.~~ He's specifically asking for a series of phrases which only Trump has used to regard anybody. If no sitting president has used those terms at all, it's set up as an impossible question. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:903219864] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>WastelandCowboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>WastelandCowboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>I was wondering how this was going to be spun =p Like I said in the other topic, one battle at a time. The media is trying to put Trump into a position where he'll say something that can tank the negotiations. In reality, I fully expect that if things proceed, we'll eventually see concessions in other areas as well.</quote> Spun? The media is trying to put Trump into a position? The lunatic said this shit himself! There's no spin to his statement.</quote> This is the narrative that they tried to create and run with. They put him into a no-win position where his stance could either threaten or derail the negotiations. He said nice things about an objectively horrible person, just like other politicians have in the past to keep things moving.</quote> I'm sorry, but despite the US's lengthy history of dealing with (and occasionally installing) dictators with horrible human rights record, this is the first one I've heard verbally feted like he was the second coming of George Washington. Seriously, can you point me even one example where a murderous dictator with a record half as bad as Kim's was referred to by a sitting US president as "very honourable" and "very talented" and "very worthy" and, oh yes, "His country really does love him. His people, you can see the fervour"? Go ahead, I'll wait.</quote> With such exceedingly narrow goalposts, it seems like the question is designed for a wait.</quote> In other words, Zeus doesnt have any explanation or answers for you.</quote> He's specifically asking for a series of phrases which only Trump has used to regard anybody. If no sitting president has used those terms at all, it's set up as an impossible question.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 06/14/18 3:01:14 AM #11:	However, if you want general praise from presidents for monsters, keep in mind that FDR called Mussolini "admirable" and that he was deeply impressed by what he has accomplished. Took like two seconds to find, btw, so your outrage wasn't really fact-checked. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:903220030] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>However, if you want general praise from presidents for monsters, keep in mind that FDR called Mussolini "admirable" and that he was deeply impressed by what he has accomplished. Took like two seconds to find, btw, so your outrage wasn't really fact-checked.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
yutterh 06/14/18 3:05:10 AM #12:	Okay I get he is a evil dictator but what do people want in negoations? To be a dick to him? which everyone was afraid of trump doing, but then get pissed that he didn't? Like i don't get it, the point of the summit was to get kim to denuclearize. Does it really matter if he appealed to his ego in order to get him to do it? Look I am against a lot of what trump does but wow people....just take the victory jeez. --- i7-5820K 3.3GHz, Asus X99-DELUXE, Corsair H110i GTX, 850 EVO 1TB, EVGA GTX 970 4GB FTW ACX2.0, Corsair 760T, EVGA 850W, Orion Spark, Proteus Core, Benq BL3200PT <cite>yutterh posted [p:903220144] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>Okay I get he is a evil dictator but what do people want in negoations? To be a dick to him? which everyone was afraid of trump doing, but then get pissed that he didn't? Like i don't get it, the point of the summit was to get kim to denuclearize. Does it really matter if he appealed to his ego in order to get him to do it? Look I am against a lot of what trump does but wow people....just take the victory jeez.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bugmeat 06/14/18 3:10:22 AM #13:	Once we've gotten him to stop being a threat to world peace we can work on getting him to stop big such a threat to his own people. Getting him to chill the fuck out and stop antagonizing everyone else is a major step to becoming friendly. If he doesn't feel so alone and cornered and can see he can indeed work with the rest of the world then we can hope to change his view and policies toward his own people. Talking to him, befriending him, showing him we can work together is the far superior option. He won't just give.up his country and walk away from it. We'd have to take it with force. That wouldn't end well. --- John Mellencamp said it best "Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone." <cite>Bugmeat posted [p:903220279] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>Once we've gotten him to stop being a threat to world peace we can work on getting him to stop big such a threat to his own people. Getting him to chill the fuck out and stop antagonizing everyone else is a major step to becoming friendly. If he doesn't feel so alone and cornered and can see he can indeed work with the rest of the world then we can hope to change his view and policies toward his own people. Talking to him, befriending him, showing him we can work together is the far superior option. He won't just give.up his country and walk away from it. We'd have to take it with force. That wouldn't end well. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
yutterh 06/14/18 3:10:49 AM #14:	Bugmeat posted... Once we've gotten him to stop being a threat to world peace we can work on getting him to stop big such a threat to his own people. Getting him to chill the fuck out and stop antagonizing everyone else is a major step to becoming friendly. If he doesn't feel so alone and cornered and can see he can indeed work with the rest of the world then we can hope to change his view and policies toward his own people. Talking to him, befriending him, showing him we can work together is the far superior option. He won't just give.up his country and walk away from it. We'd have to take it with force. That wouldn't end well. --- i7-5820K 3.3GHz, Asus X99-DELUXE, Corsair H110i GTX, 850 EVO 1TB, EVGA GTX 970 4GB FTW ACX2.0, Corsair 760T, EVGA 850W, Orion Spark, Proteus Core, Benq BL3200PT <cite>yutterh posted [p:903220294] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>Bugmeat posted...</cite> <quote>Once we've gotten him to stop being a threat to world peace we can work on getting him to stop big such a threat to his own people. Getting him to chill the fuck out and stop antagonizing everyone else is a major step to becoming friendly. If he doesn't feel so alone and cornered and can see he can indeed work with the rest of the world then we can hope to change his view and policies toward his own people. Talking to him, befriending him, showing him we can work together is the far superior option. He won't just give.up his country and walk away from it. We'd have to take it with force. That wouldn't end well. </quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheWorstPoster 06/14/18 3:25:48 AM #15:	Trump can reunite the Koreas, and the Left will demand his impeachment for destroying foreign countries. <cite>TheWorstPoster posted [p:903220782] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>Trump can reunite the Koreas, and the Left will demand his impeachment for destroying foreign countries.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ClarkDuke 06/14/18 4:23:36 AM #16:	TheWorstPoster posted... Trump can reunite the Koreas, and the Left will demand his impeachment for destroying foreign countries. You should get a job helping him, ok? --- https://imgur.com/qL0DHFI https://imgur.com/JL9rRLt https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ <cite>ClarkDuke posted [p:903222271] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>TheWorstPoster posted...</cite> <quote>Trump can reunite the Koreas, and the Left will demand his impeachment for destroying foreign countries.</quote> You should get a job helping him, ok?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GanglyKhan 06/14/18 7:38:13 AM #17:	yutterh posted... Okay I get he is a evil dictator but what do people want in negoations? To be a dick to him? which everyone was afraid of trump doing, but then get pissed that he didn't? Like i don't get it, the point of the summit was to get kim to denuclearize. Does it really matter if he appealed to his ego in order to get him to do it? Look I am against a lot of what trump does but wow people....just take the victory jeez. The voice of reason in this thread. Also what Bugmeat said. 90% of people aren't well read enough to offer up their emotionally driven opinion on something like this. Calling KJU out on human rights violations would close the doors and have him spinning up the nuclear program again. <cite>GanglyKhan posted [p:903226939] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>yutterh posted...</cite> <quote>Okay I get he is a evil dictator but what do people want in negoations? To be a dick to him? which everyone was afraid of trump doing, but then get pissed that he didn't? Like i don't get it, the point of the summit was to get kim to denuclearize. Does it really matter if he appealed to his ego in order to get him to do it? Look I am against a lot of what trump does but wow people....just take the victory jeez.</quote> The voice of reason in this thread. Also what Bugmeat said. 90% of people aren't well read enough to offer up their emotionally driven opinion on something like this. Calling KJU out on human rights violations would close the doors and have him spinning up the nuclear program again.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peterass 06/14/18 8:57:52 AM #18:	TheWorstPoster posted... Trump can reunite the Koreas, and the Left will demand his impeachment for destroying foreign countries. Doesn't matter what the guy does or doesn't do. The left hates him so much that he'll never get any credit from them. It's predictable and tired. People who aren't totally oblivious and were once on the fence are realizing this and seeing the benefits of this presidency. --- Everything is awesome <cite>Peterass posted [p:903229735] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>TheWorstPoster posted...</cite> <quote>Trump can reunite the Koreas, and the Left will demand his impeachment for destroying foreign countries.</quote> Doesn't matter what the guy does or doesn't do. The left hates him so much that he'll never get any credit from them. It's predictable and tired. People who aren't totally oblivious and were once on the fence are realizing this and seeing the benefits of this presidency.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BUMPED2002 06/14/18 9:17:25 AM #19:	Kim's human rights record is abysmal but keep in mind after WW2 America welcomed former Nazi's into the country because of their scientific and technical expertise in rocketry so we have a history of looking the other way for the ahem greater good. <cite>BUMPED2002 posted [p:903230526] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>Kim's human rights record is abysmal but keep in mind after WW2 America welcomed former Nazi's into the country because of their scientific and technical expertise in rocketry so we have a history of looking the other way for the ahem greater good.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 06/14/18 9:50:04 AM #20:	Zeus posted... However, if you want general praise from presidents for monsters, keep in mind that FDR called Mussolini "admirable" and that he was deeply impressed by what he has accomplished. Took like two seconds to find, btw, so your outrage wasn't really fact-checked. Rekt. Also, I'll add that there was that time Obama bowed to the leader of Saudi Arabia Trump can't win with the left either way. If he insults Kim they'll run with the narrative of, "he's a bad negotiator and ruined our shot at peace with insults!" And then in this case he tries to play nice to keep negotiations going and the left runs with the narrative of, "he's worshipping a brutal dictator!" This is much in the same way that the left complains about America being imperialistic but when trump talks about pulling us out of Korea we get, "we need a military presence there!" Guarantee the potential fallout of the US pulling out of Korea couldn't be nearly as awful as Obama pulling out of Iraq And yes these questions were obviously designed so that there is no winning answer. <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:903232227] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>However, if you want general praise from presidents for monsters, keep in mind that FDR called Mussolini "admirable" and that he was deeply impressed by what he has accomplished. Took like two seconds to find, btw, so your outrage wasn't really fact-checked.</quote> Rekt. Also, I'll add that there was that time Obama bowed to the leader of Saudi Arabia Trump can't win with the left either way. If he insults Kim they'll run with the narrative of, "he's a bad negotiator and ruined our shot at peace with insults!" And then in this case he tries to play nice to keep negotiations going and the left runs with the narrative of, "he's worshipping a brutal dictator!" This is much in the same way that the left complains about America being imperialistic but when trump talks about pulling us out of Korea we get, "we need a military presence there!" Guarantee the potential fallout of the US pulling out of Korea couldn't be nearly as awful as Obama pulling out of Iraq And yes these questions were obviously designed so that there is no winning answer.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 06/14/18 9:51:50 AM #21:	BUMPED2002 posted... Kim's human rights record is abysmal but keep in mind after WW2 America welcomed former Nazi's into the country because of their scientific and technical expertise in rocketry so we have a history of looking the other way for the ahem greater good. Yeah, trump isn't wrong. Every nation is guilty of something. We, in fact, rounded up Japanese people during WWII but we dont talk about that <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:903232327] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>BUMPED2002 posted...</cite> <quote>Kim's human rights record is abysmal but keep in mind after WW2 America welcomed former Nazi's into the country because of their scientific and technical expertise in rocketry so we have a history of looking the other way for the ahem greater good.</quote> Yeah, trump isn't wrong. Every nation is guilty of something. We, in fact, rounded up Japanese people during WWII but we dont talk about that</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 06/14/18 9:57:38 AM #22:	Zeus posted... However, if you want general praise from presidents for monsters, keep in mind that FDR called Mussolini "admirable" and that he was deeply impressed by what he has accomplished. Took like two seconds to find, btw, so your outrage wasn't really fact-checked. In 1933, before War had broken out and before the full scope of Mussolini's atrocities became known (and even then, he received considerable criticism for the remarks). Not even close to the same thing. yutterh posted... Okay I get he is a evil dictator but what do people want in negoations? To be a dick to him? which everyone was afraid of trump doing, but then get pissed that he didn't? There's a rather significant middle ground between "being a dick to someone" and "pretending they are the greatest person to ever live". yutterh posted... Look I am against a lot of what trump does but wow people....just take the victory jeez. What victory? Trump, from a position of strength, gave up just about every negotiating advantage he had and made significant concessions to North Korea and in return got an agreement that was weaker than the ones previous presidents had secured from North Korea (which were summarily ignored by North Korean leadership after they had served their purpose) and which, for that matter, were far weaker than the Iran deal that Trump just tore up after calling it "the worst deal ever". He got absolutely fleeced and I remain stunned that most of his followers still refuse to accept that. Some of the more principled voices amongst the Republicans have recognized what have happened, but a disappointingly large number either don't or refuse to publicly acknowledge it. Bugmeat posted... Once we've gotten him to stop being a threat to world peace we can work on getting him to stop big such a threat to his own people. For all their provocations, North Korea isn't and never really has been a significant threat to world peace. Nukes weren't acquired because the Kims wanted to take over the world, they were acquired so that they could make deposing them such a costly proposition that no one would dare attempt it. They want survival of their own dictatorship, not Armageddon. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:903232616] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zeus posted...</cite> <quote>However, if you want general praise from presidents for monsters, keep in mind that FDR called Mussolini "admirable" and that he was deeply impressed by what he has accomplished. Took like two seconds to find, btw, so your outrage wasn't really fact-checked.</quote> In 1933, before War had broken out and before the full scope of Mussolini's atrocities became known (and even then, he received considerable criticism for the remarks). Not even close to the same thing. <cite>yutterh posted...</cite> <quote>Okay I get he is a evil dictator but what do people want in negoations? To be a dick to him? which everyone was afraid of trump doing, but then get pissed that he didn't?</quote> There's a rather significant middle ground between "being a dick to someone" and "pretending they are the greatest person to ever live". <cite>yutterh posted...</cite> <quote>Look I am against a lot of what trump does but wow people....just take the victory jeez. </quote> What victory? Trump, from a position of strength, gave up just about every negotiating advantage he had and made significant concessions to North Korea and in return got an agreement that was weaker than the ones previous presidents had secured from North Korea (which were summarily ignored by North Korean leadership after they had served their purpose) and which, for that matter, were far weaker than the Iran deal that Trump just tore up after calling it "the worst deal ever". He got absolutely fleeced and I remain stunned that most of his followers still refuse to accept that. Some of the more principled voices amongst the Republicans have recognized what have happened, but a disappointingly large number either don't or refuse to publicly acknowledge it. <cite>Bugmeat posted...</cite> <quote>Once we've gotten him to stop being a threat to world peace we can work on getting him to stop big such a threat to his own people. </quote> For all their provocations, North Korea isn't and never really has been a significant threat to world peace. Nukes weren't acquired because the Kims wanted to take over the world, they were acquired so that they could make deposing them such a costly proposition that no one would dare attempt it. They want survival of their own dictatorship, not Armageddon.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Peterass 06/14/18 10:35:18 AM #24:	quigonzel posted... I'm a bit confused. A little less than a year ago, everyone was outraged that Trump was goading Kim Jong Un into a nuclear war but now we're supposed to be outraged that he's playing nice to speed along negotiations? Ridiculous isn't it? Doensn't matter what the issue is, you need to be anti whatever Trump does or says in order be part of the lefty club. --- Everything is awesome <cite>Peterass posted [p:903234702] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>quigonzel posted...</cite> <quote>I'm a bit confused. A little less than a year ago, everyone was outraged that Trump was goading Kim Jong Un into a nuclear war but now we're supposed to be outraged that he's playing nice to speed along negotiations? </quote> Ridiculous isn't it? Doensn't matter what the issue is, you need to be anti whatever Trump does or says in order be part of the lefty club.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
slacker03150 06/14/18 10:41:06 AM #25:	I would rather them keep nukes, but free their citizens. They won't use the nukes. The second they do their entire country will be reduced to rubble within a day or two. --- I am awesome and so are you. Lenny gone but not forgotten. - 12/10/2015 <cite>slacker03150 posted [p:903235058] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>I would rather them keep nukes, but free their citizens. They won't use the nukes. The second they do their entire country will be reduced to rubble within a day or two.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 06/14/18 10:45:16 AM #26:	slacker03150 posted... I would rather them keep nukes, but free their citizens. They won't use the nukes. The second they do their entire country will be reduced to rubble within a day or two. I think NK having a good relationship with the west is a step toward liberation of the people there. Maybe it is... maybe it isn't but it's at least likely a more productive step than constantly tense and prickly relations. That definitely won't change anything. <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:903235303] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>slacker03150 posted...</cite> <quote>I would rather them keep nukes, but free their citizens. They won't use the nukes. The second they do their entire country will be reduced to rubble within a day or two.</quote> I think NK having a good relationship with the west is a step toward liberation of the people there. Maybe it is... maybe it isn't but it's at least likely a more productive step than constantly tense and prickly relations. That definitely won't change anything.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacrossSpecial 06/14/18 11:07:47 AM #27:	I have to agree with Zeus. As a layperson, I view negotiating with North Korea is a no-win situation but it still has to be done due to the can being kicked down the road for so long. Crippling sanctions didn't stop their nuclear program, threats of fire and fury didn't, so what else is there? I am by no means a fan of Trump but recognizing and practically fellatating Kim seems to be the last ditch effort and only choice we have left. It'll likely lead to other horrible people putting all their efforts into standing up a nuke program, but like I said, I don't see there being any other choice given the threats Kim constantly issues. I should say that I don't see war as a valid option. --- ...Dude, you're a ****ing douche. Get off my god damn internets. - RX7Infinitilll <cite>MacrossSpecial posted [p:903236662] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>I have to agree with Zeus. As a layperson, I view negotiating with North Korea is a no-win situation but it still has to be done due to the can being kicked down the road for so long. Crippling sanctions didn't stop their nuclear program, threats of fire and fury didn't, so what else is there? I am by no means a fan of Trump but recognizing and practically fellatating Kim seems to be the last ditch effort and only choice we have left. It'll likely lead to other horrible people putting all their efforts into standing up a nuke program, but like I said, I don't see there being any other choice given the threats Kim constantly issues. I should say that I don't see war as a valid option.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jen0125 06/14/18 11:17:14 AM #28:	Not for nothing but right now the US is holding children they ripped away from their immigrant parents in internment camps indefinitely and lost over 1000 in the system with no idea who has them. So maybe we should get off our high horse a bit. --- https://imgur.com/4ihiyS2 "I am not gay! Can't you get that through your head? I am very much aroused at the site of a naked woman!" - Dan0429 <cite>Jen0125 posted [p:903237188] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>Not for nothing but right now the US is holding children they ripped away from their immigrant parents in internment camps indefinitely and lost over 1000 in the system with no idea who has them. So maybe we should get off our high horse a bit.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The_tall_midget 06/14/18 11:18:19 AM #29:	Momentously forgetting about actions of the past is a very Murcan thing to do. --- "Whatever! Everyone is woman!" -Bimbo from Super Seducer : How to talk to women <cite>The_tall_midget posted [p:903237264] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>Momentously forgetting about actions of the past is a very Murcan thing to do.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jen0125 06/14/18 11:19:51 AM #30:	Yeah, it's not the first time we've held a group of people in internment camps. And that time we said never again. That sure lasted long. --- https://imgur.com/4ihiyS2 "I am not gay! Can't you get that through your head? I am very much aroused at the site of a naked woman!" - Dan0429 <cite>Jen0125 posted [p:903237351] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, it's not the first time we've held a group of people in internment camps. And that time we said never again. That sure lasted long.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 06/14/18 11:23:54 AM #31:	I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:903237603] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 06/14/18 11:37:39 AM #32:	adjl posted... I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign. Whatabout <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:903238465] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>adjl posted...</cite> <quote>I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign.</quote> Whatabout</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 06/14/18 11:43:10 AM #33:	OhhhJa posted... adjl posted... I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign. Whatabout Not really. I didn't say that with the intent of deflecting from something else, I was just adding my thoughts to Jen's comment. I recognize that Trump campaigning on a platform of war crimes doesn't make NK's human rights violations any less dire, and have no interest in trying to bring up one to distract from the other. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:903238786] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote><cite>adjl posted...</cite> <quote>I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign.</quote> Whatabout</quote> Not really. I didn't say that with the intent of deflecting from something else, I was just adding my thoughts to Jen's comment. I recognize that Trump campaigning on a platform of war crimes doesn't make NK's human rights violations any less dire, and have no interest in trying to bring up one to distract from the other.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Andromicus 06/14/18 11:44:46 AM #34:	If your wanna talk about human rights abuses how bout that nasty Clinton woman LOCK HER UP LOCK HER UP --- PotD's official master braider <cite>Andromicus posted [p:903238884] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>If your wanna talk about human rights abuses how bout that nasty Clinton woman LOCK HER UP LOCK HER UP</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 06/14/18 12:08:32 PM #35:	adjl posted... OhhhJa posted... adjl posted... I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign. Whatabout Not really. I didn't say that with the intent of deflecting from something else, I was just adding my thoughts to Jen's comment. I recognize that Trump campaigning on a platform of war crimes doesn't make NK's human rights violations any less dire, and have no interest in trying to bring up one to distract from the other. Well, now that I think about it, I dont believe trump have campaigned for internment. There was the travel ban but I dont think there was any talk of internment camps <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:903240303] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>adjl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote><cite>adjl posted...</cite> <quote>I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign.</quote> Whatabout</quote> Not really. I didn't say that with the intent of deflecting from something else, I was just adding my thoughts to Jen's comment. I recognize that Trump campaigning on a platform of war crimes doesn't make NK's human rights violations any less dire, and have no interest in trying to bring up one to distract from the other.</quote> Well, now that I think about it, I dont believe trump have campaigned for internment. There was the travel ban but I dont think there was any talk of internment camps</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 06/14/18 12:39:48 PM #36:	quigonzel posted... I'm a bit confused. A little less than a year ago, everyone was outraged that Trump was goading Kim Jong Un into a nuclear war but now we're supposed to be outraged that he's playing nice to speed along negotiations? darkknight109 posted... There's a rather significant middle ground between "being a dick to someone" and "pretending they are the greatest person to ever live". MacrossSpecial posted... I am by no means a fan of Trump but recognizing and practically fellatating Kim seems to be the last ditch effort and only choice we have left. How is it the only choice left? Again, the US is holding all the cards here. It's not like North Korea has America backed into a corner; if this entire conference never happened, life would go on. And lest my words get taken out of context, I'm not even saying that diplomacy is the wrong choice here. Indeed, one thing I will absolutely give Trump credit for is that the leader-to-leader talks were a good idea. The problem is that the actual results of those talks were almost as bad as they realistically could have been and Trump wound up giving up a tonne of leverage in return for hopes and promises from a nation with a lengthy history of not living up to their word on them. Trump botched the execution, but the idea of talking to Kim directly instead of through lower-level functionaries is a good one. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:903242364] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>quigonzel posted...</cite> <quote>I'm a bit confused. A little less than a year ago, everyone was outraged that Trump was goading Kim Jong Un into a nuclear war but now we're supposed to be outraged that he's playing nice to speed along negotiations? </quote> <cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>There's a rather significant middle ground between "being a dick to someone" and "pretending they are the greatest person to ever live".</quote> <cite>MacrossSpecial posted...</cite> <quote>I am by no means a fan of Trump but recognizing and practically fellatating Kim seems to be the last ditch effort and only choice we have left.</quote> How is it the only choice left? Again, the US is holding all the cards here. It's not like North Korea has America backed into a corner; if this entire conference never happened, life would go on. And lest my words get taken out of context, I'm not even saying that diplomacy is the wrong choice here. Indeed, one thing I will absolutely give Trump credit for is that the leader-to-leader talks were a good idea. The problem is that the actual results of those talks were almost as bad as they realistically could have been and Trump wound up giving up a tonne of leverage in return for hopes and promises from a nation with a lengthy history of not living up to their word on them. Trump botched the execution, but the idea of talking to Kim directly instead of through lower-level functionaries is a good one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blightzkrieg 06/14/18 12:43:22 PM #37:	quigonzel posted... I'm a bit confused. A little less than a year ago, everyone was outraged that Trump was goading Kim Jong Un into a nuclear war but now we're supposed to be outraged that he's playing nice to speed along negotiations? Both sides are equally bad. And by both sides I mean both of Trump's approaches. He needs to learn some restraint. --- https://imgur.com/WeQQNi7 <cite>Blightzkrieg posted [p:903242617] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>quigonzel posted...</cite> <quote>I'm a bit confused. A little less than a year ago, everyone was outraged that Trump was goading Kim Jong Un into a nuclear war but now we're supposed to be outraged that he's playing nice to speed along negotiations? </quote> Both sides are equally bad. And by both sides I mean both of Trump's approaches. He needs to learn some restraint.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 06/14/18 12:45:15 PM #38:	OhhhJa posted... adjl posted... OhhhJa posted... adjl posted... I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign. Whatabout Not really. I didn't say that with the intent of deflecting from something else, I was just adding my thoughts to Jen's comment. I recognize that Trump campaigning on a platform of war crimes doesn't make NK's human rights violations any less dire, and have no interest in trying to bring up one to distract from the other. Well, now that I think about it, I dont believe trump have campaigned for internment. There was the travel ban but I dont think there was any talk of internment camps I may be conflating him with the Australian election going on at the same time where there were indeed people calling for internment of Muslims. I know there were many, many credible comparisons drawn between Trump's rhetoric and the rhetoric used to justify interring the Japanese during WWII, but you're right, I don't remember if Trump specifically suggested internment himself or not. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:903242754] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote><cite>adjl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote><cite>adjl posted...</cite> <quote>I liked the part where people were praising Trump for floating the idea of Muslim internment camps during his campaign.</quote> Whatabout</quote> Not really. I didn't say that with the intent of deflecting from something else, I was just adding my thoughts to Jen's comment. I recognize that Trump campaigning on a platform of war crimes doesn't make NK's human rights violations any less dire, and have no interest in trying to bring up one to distract from the other.</quote> Well, now that I think about it, I dont believe trump have campaigned for internment. There was the travel ban but I dont think there was any talk of internment camps</quote> I may be conflating him with the Australian election going on at the same time where there were indeed people calling for internment of Muslims. I know there were many, many credible comparisons drawn between Trump's rhetoric and the rhetoric used to justify interring the Japanese during WWII, but you're right, I don't remember if Trump specifically suggested internment himself or not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacrossSpecial 06/14/18 12:48:57 PM #39:	darkknight109 posted... quigonzel posted... I'm a bit confused. A little less than a year ago, everyone was outraged that Trump was goading Kim Jong Un into a nuclear war but now we're supposed to be outraged that he's playing nice to speed along negotiations? darkknight109 posted... There's a rather significant middle ground between "being a dick to someone" and "pretending they are the greatest person to ever live". MacrossSpecial posted... I am by no means a fan of Trump but recognizing and practically fellatating Kim seems to be the last ditch effort and only choice we have left. How is it the only choice left? Again, the US is holding all the cards here. It's not like North Korea has America backed into a corner; if this entire conference never happened, life would go on. And lest my words get taken out of context, I'm not even saying that diplomacy is the wrong choice here. Indeed, one thing I will absolutely give Trump credit for is that the leader-to-leader talks were a good idea. The problem is that the actual results of those talks were almost as bad as they realistically could have been and Trump wound up giving up a tonne of leverage in return for hopes and promises from a nation with a lengthy history of not living up to their word on them. Trump botched the execution, but the idea of talking to Kim directly instead of through lower-level functionaries is a good one. I believe everyone in the thread is saying the same thing - talks = good, giving up the farm and getting nothing = bad. --- ...Dude, you're a ****ing douche. Get off my god damn internets. - RX7Infinitilll <cite>MacrossSpecial posted [p:903242988] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>quigonzel posted...</cite> <quote>I'm a bit confused. A little less than a year ago, everyone was outraged that Trump was goading Kim Jong Un into a nuclear war but now we're supposed to be outraged that he's playing nice to speed along negotiations? </quote> <cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>There's a rather significant middle ground between "being a dick to someone" and "pretending they are the greatest person to ever live".</quote> <cite>MacrossSpecial posted...</cite> <quote>I am by no means a fan of Trump but recognizing and practically fellatating Kim seems to be the last ditch effort and only choice we have left.</quote> How is it the only choice left? Again, the US is holding all the cards here. It's not like North Korea has America backed into a corner; if this entire conference never happened, life would go on. And lest my words get taken out of context, I'm not even saying that diplomacy is the wrong choice here. Indeed, one thing I will absolutely give Trump credit for is that the leader-to-leader talks were a good idea. The problem is that the actual results of those talks were almost as bad as they realistically could have been and Trump wound up giving up a tonne of leverage in return for hopes and promises from a nation with a lengthy history of not living up to their word on them. Trump botched the execution, but the idea of talking to Kim directly instead of through lower-level functionaries is a good one.</quote> I believe everyone in the thread is saying the same thing - talks = good, giving up the farm and getting nothing = bad.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 06/14/18 12:50:58 PM #40:	I think its cute that they were brushing each other --- If they drag you through the mud, it doesnt change whats in your blood <cite>Mead posted [p:903243137] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>I think its cute that they were brushing each other</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joemodda 06/14/18 12:51:36 PM #41:	People getting triggered by what Trump has to say. What else is new? ...Oh, he just denuclearized North Korea? That fucking BIGOT --- Whatever the cost, whatever the effort! <cite>joemodda posted [p:903243188] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>People getting triggered by what Trump has to say. What else is new? ...Oh, he just denuclearized North Korea? That fucking BIGOT</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Andromicus 06/14/18 12:54:15 PM #42:	joemodda posted... People getting triggered by what Trump has to say. What else is new? ...Oh, he just denuclearized North Korea? That fucking BIGOT Promising something and getting it are two different things, like just what Trump was going on about with the Iran deal --- PotD's official master braider <cite>Andromicus posted [p:903243360] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>joemodda posted...</cite> <quote>People getting triggered by what Trump has to say. What else is new? ...Oh, he just denuclearized North Korea? That fucking BIGOT</quote> Promising something and getting it are two different things, like just what Trump was going on about with the Iran deal</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 06/14/18 12:56:03 PM #43:	joemodda posted... People getting triggered by what Trump has to say. What else is new? ...Oh, he just denuclearized North Korea? That fucking BIGOT By that standard, you know who else denuclearized North Korea? Bill Clinton. And Barack Obama. And George W. Bush, who managed to do it twice. This is the infuriating part about this. North Korea hasn't even agreed with the US definition of "denuclearization", they've committed to nothing except extremely vague promises that they already made with South Korea, and their nuclear arsenal is no smaller today than it was before Trump visited, yet Trump supporters are acting like Trump just went in and personally oversaw the destruction of every last ounce of fissile material on North Korean soil. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:903243501] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>joemodda posted...</cite> <quote>People getting triggered by what Trump has to say. What else is new? ...Oh, he just denuclearized North Korea? That fucking BIGOT</quote> By that standard, you know who else denuclearized North Korea? Bill Clinton. And Barack Obama. And George W. Bush, who managed to do it twice. This is the infuriating part about this. North Korea hasn't even agreed with the US definition of "denuclearization", they've committed to nothing except extremely vague promises that they already made with South Korea, and their nuclear arsenal is no smaller today than it was before Trump visited, yet Trump supporters are acting like Trump just went in and personally oversaw the destruction of every last ounce of fissile material on North Korean soil.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 06/14/18 1:02:07 PM #44:	darkknight109 posted... By that standard, you know who else denuclearized North Korea? Bill Clinton. And Barack Obama. And George W. Bush, who managed to do it twice. Yeah but we actually gave something in return this time. We gave him a demilitarized Korea which is no doubt a big factor in why NK feels threatened and the need to posture constantly. Of course a deal won't stand if you offer nothing in return. Maybe it won't this time either but time will tell darkknight109 posted... This is the infuriating part about this. North Korea hasn't even agreed with the US definition of "denuclearization", they've committed to nothing except extremely vague promises So clearly you read a wapo article since that's what they're harping on. But in agree that the deal should be more specific in regards to steps toward denuclearization <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:903243978] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>By that standard, you know who else denuclearized North Korea? Bill Clinton. And Barack Obama. And George W. Bush, who managed to do it twice.</quote> Yeah but we actually gave something in return this time. We gave him a demilitarized Korea which is no doubt a big factor in why NK feels threatened and the need to posture constantly. Of course a deal won't stand if you offer nothing in return. Maybe it won't this time either but time will tell <cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>This is the infuriating part about this. North Korea hasn't even agreed with the US definition of "denuclearization", they've committed to nothing except extremely vague promises</quote> So clearly you read a wapo article since that's what they're harping on. But in agree that the deal should be more specific in regards to steps toward denuclearization</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 06/14/18 1:02:56 PM #45:	Honestly no matter how this falls-out it's a big blow to North Korea unless Un ends up tearing Trump's head off Mortal Kombat style or something. Here's the thing; North Korea functions heavily on a mentality of military first and that the rest of the world is out to get and destroy them. A huge part of the reason this is able to keep going is America's unwillingness to talk as well as the chance that hostilities could escalate at any moment. Even if war was declared and America nuked Pyongyang to universal approval with every nation (except North Korea obviously) sending Trump congratulatory fruit baskets, this wouldn't break North Korea. It would only prove that Un was right to talk so much about how much the rest of the world wants to destroy them. A land war, besides not only getting massive amounts of protest back home, would be incredibly long and costly and result in massive 'civilian' casualties not just from north artillery strikes on the south but from the sheer number of civilians who would fight back convinced American soldiers were about to kill them, rape the bodies, then throw the remains in a pot set to 'simmer'. Even if we 'won' we'd have decades of occupation and peace-keeping ahead of us as, not only would the north need to be built up to be able to survive the unification, but they would need to stomp out any groups attempting to revive the communist ideal. However, with a peacetime, Un will potentially lose a lot of his power-base as the ideology will lose a solid bit of its foundation and the civilians, hopefully, will be able to branch out instead of having a fanatical devotion to the military. --- I am the gentle hand who heals, the happy smile who shields, and the foot that will kick your ***! - White Mage <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:903244055] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>Honestly no matter how this falls-out it's a big blow to North Korea unless Un ends up tearing Trump's head off Mortal Kombat style or something. Here's the thing; North Korea functions heavily on a mentality of military first and that the rest of the world is out to get and destroy them. A huge part of the reason this is able to keep going is America's unwillingness to talk as well as the chance that hostilities could escalate at any moment. Even if war was declared and America nuked Pyongyang to universal approval with every nation (except North Korea obviously) sending Trump congratulatory fruit baskets, this wouldn't break North Korea. It would only prove that Un was right to talk so much about how much the rest of the world wants to destroy them. A land war, besides not only getting massive amounts of protest back home, would be incredibly long and costly and result in massive 'civilian' casualties not just from north artillery strikes on the south but from the sheer number of civilians who would fight back convinced American soldiers were about to kill them, rape the bodies, then throw the remains in a pot set to 'simmer'. Even if we 'won' we'd have decades of occupation and peace-keeping ahead of us as, not only would the north need to be built up to be able to survive the unification, but they would need to stomp out any groups attempting to revive the communist ideal. However, with a peacetime, Un will potentially lose a lot of his power-base as the ideology will lose a solid bit of its foundation and the civilians, hopefully, will be able to branch out instead of having a fanatical devotion to the military.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 06/14/18 1:06:13 PM #46:	OhhhJa posted... Yeah but we actually gave something in return this time. In other words, Trump paid more and got less than everyone else who's been in his position in the past. Winning! (actually, even that's probably giving him too much credit, given that it was South Korea that secured the agreement with North Korea first; Kim just restated it for his agreement with Trump). OhhhJa posted... Of course a deal won't stand if you offer nothing in return. Things like food or financial aid or light water reactors? Again, you don't know history if you think that previous administrations offered nothing in return for denuclearization. OhhhJa posted... So clearly you read a wapo article since that's what they're harping on. But in agree that the deal should be more specific in regards to steps toward denuclearization Ha ha ha!! I love this! "You've clearly been reading this horrible rag that I hate, even though I agree they're completely correct." --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:903244291] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote>Yeah but we actually gave something in return this time. </quote> In other words, Trump paid more and got less than everyone else who's been in his position in the past. Winning! (actually, even that's probably giving him too much credit, given that it was South Korea that secured the agreement with North Korea first; Kim just restated it for his agreement with Trump). <cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote>Of course a deal won't stand if you offer nothing in return. </quote> Things like food or financial aid or light water reactors? Again, you don't know history if you think that previous administrations offered nothing in return for denuclearization. <cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote>So clearly you read a wapo article since that's what they're harping on. But in agree that the deal should be more specific in regards to steps toward denuclearization </quote> Ha ha ha!! I love this! "You've clearly been reading this horrible rag that I hate, even though I agree they're completely correct."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 06/14/18 1:07:59 PM #47:	Unbridled9 posted... However, with a peacetime, Un will potentially lose a lot of his power-base as the ideology will lose a solid bit of its foundation and the civilians, hopefully, will be able to branch out instead of having a fanatical devotion to the military. I agree with this point of view too. The people of NK and his cabinet will likely see this as weakness on his part <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:903244412] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>Unbridled9 posted...</cite> <quote>However, with a peacetime, Un will potentially lose a lot of his power-base as the ideology will lose a solid bit of its foundation and the civilians, hopefully, will be able to branch out instead of having a fanatical devotion to the military.</quote> I agree with this point of view too. The people of NK and his cabinet will likely see this as weakness on his part</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OhhhJa 06/14/18 1:13:38 PM #48:	darkknight109 posted... In other words, Trump paid more and got less than everyone else who's been in his position in the past. Winning! (actually, even that's probably giving him too much credit, given that it was South Korea that secured the agreement with North Korea first; Kim just restated it for his agreement with Trump). This is where you're wrong again. Obama and Clinton caved and gave him resources when it was obviously their typical ploy to get things they temporarily need. Once they got what they needed there was no need to uphold a bargain. With this deal, we actually gain money back that we were spending on being stationed there. Are you that bad at math? And on top of that, part of the deal was that we will be putting troops right back if terms are not agreed upon. Either way, we win in this deal darkknight109 posted... Things like food or financial aid or light water reactors? Again, you don't know history if you think that previous administrations offered nothing in return for denuclearization. Again, like I said, once they got what they needed there was no reason to follow through on their part. We showed weakness by giving them financial aid and other resources. This time we gave them nothing except the promise of keeping our troops out IF they hold up their end. See how that actually may work better long term? You can't take back financial aid, food, and light water reactors but you can bring back troops darkknight109 posted... Ha ha ha!! I love this! "You've clearly been reading this horrible rag that I hate, even though I agree they're completely correct." For someone who complains about people not seeing the middle ground, you sure did a bang up job of missing it there <cite>OhhhJa posted [p:903244796] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>In other words, Trump paid more and got less than everyone else who's been in his position in the past. Winning! (actually, even that's probably giving him too much credit, given that it was South Korea that secured the agreement with North Korea first; Kim just restated it for his agreement with Trump).</quote> This is where you're wrong again. Obama and Clinton caved and gave him resources when it was obviously their typical ploy to get things they temporarily need. Once they got what they needed there was no need to uphold a bargain. With this deal, we actually gain money back that we were spending on being stationed there. Are you that bad at math? And on top of that, part of the deal was that we will be putting troops right back if terms are not agreed upon. Either way, we win in this deal <cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>Things like food or financial aid or light water reactors? Again, you don't know history if you think that previous administrations offered nothing in return for denuclearization.</quote> Again, like I said, once they got what they needed there was no reason to follow through on their part. We showed weakness by giving them financial aid and other resources. This time we gave them nothing except the promise of keeping our troops out IF they hold up their end. See how that actually may work better long term? You can't take back financial aid, food, and light water reactors but you can bring back troops <cite>darkknight109 posted...</cite> <quote>Ha ha ha!! I love this! "You've clearly been reading this horrible rag that I hate, even though I agree they're completely correct."</quote> For someone who complains about people not seeing the middle ground, you sure did a bang up job of missing it there </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheCyborgNinja 06/14/18 1:30:27 PM #49:	I think he's envious of the power his new friends wield. To be fair, who wouldn't be? --- "message parlor" ? do you mean the post office ? - SlayerX888 <cite>TheCyborgNinja posted [p:903245862] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote>I think he's envious of the power his new friends wield. To be fair, who wouldn't be?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 06/14/18 1:34:14 PM #50:	OhhhJa posted... Obama and Clinton caved and gave him resources when it was obviously their typical ploy to get things they temporarily need. Once they got what they needed there was no need to uphold a bargain. And what do you think this is? Do you seriously not see the game being played here? Ask yourself this: why is North Korea doing this? Kim Jong Un has spent the better part of the last decade pouring tonnes of resources into developing nuclear weapons. He's conducted nuclear tests and rocket launches in flagrant violation of previous agreements. He's resisted every sanction thrown at him and even managed to alienate China, North Korea's one real ally. He's rebuffed all previous offers at negotiation, saying that nuclear arms are North Korea's birthright. Then, in January, he suddenly turns around and says "Just kidding! We'll totally get rid of our nukes, let's have a sit-down chat, shall we?" The question is why. Why would Kim, after a decade of belligerence and intransigence, suddenly be willing to put on a friendly face and negotiate? It's not like he was forced into it; his regime isn't facing any existential threats, nor had Trump taken an appreciably different tack with him than previous presidents (overly bellicose rhetoric aside), so nothing in that area has changed. It's not hard to figure out the calculus here. Kim has what he wants. He's developed the nuclear weapons he needs to secure his grip on power (and no, it'll be a cold day in hell before he gets rid of them willingly). Now he needs sanctions relief. So he puts on appearances, launches the charm offensive, and pinky-swears that he'll give up these nukes that he's spent all this time, money, and effort into developing. And it worked. Trump took the bait and, in recognition of the successful summit, China has said they're dropping all their sanctions. Kim got the relief he needed for his country. He'll milk this along for as much as he can (and if he can extract concessions from China and Russia for getting the Americans off of the peninsula, he'll do so) but he has absolutely no reason to give up his nuclear ambitions. After all, consider that America was helping support the overthrow of multiple dictators that gave up their nuclear ambitions (Hussein, Gadaffi) and that Trump just demonstrated that the US is willing to tear up nuclear arms control agreements, entered into in good faith and to which all parties are adhering, simply because the current president doesn't like it. A nuclear agreement with America means nothing these days and Kim would be a fool to trust in it. OhhhJa posted... With this deal, we actually gain money back that we were spending on being stationed there. At the cost of basically ceding increasingly dwindling influence in east Asia to China, sure. OhhhJa posted... Are you that bad at math? Not as bad as you are at geopolitics, apparently. OhhhJa posted... And on top of that, part of the deal was that we will be putting troops right back if terms are not agreed upon. And you're not concerned about the military reps who have sounded alarm bells about lack of operational readiness given that the joint military exercises are being halted? Pardon me for doubting your military knowledge, but I trust their word over yours. OhhhJa posted... This time we gave them nothing except the promise of keeping our troops out IF they hold up their end. You also left out "an end to sanctions", which is North Korea's far bigger win here. You don't think it was coincidence that Kim met twice with the Chinese President just before his meeting with Trump, do you? --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:903246115] in Trump brus... [t:76711599]...</cite> <quote><cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote>Obama and Clinton caved and gave him resources when it was obviously their typical ploy to get things they temporarily need. Once they got what they needed there was no need to uphold a bargain.</quote> And what do you think this is? Do you seriously not see the game being played here? Ask yourself this: why is North Korea doing this? Kim Jong Un has spent the better part of the last decade pouring tonnes of resources into developing nuclear weapons. He's conducted nuclear tests and rocket launches in flagrant violation of previous agreements. He's resisted every sanction thrown at him and even managed to alienate China, North Korea's one real ally. He's rebuffed all previous offers at negotiation, saying that nuclear arms are North Korea's birthright. Then, in January, he suddenly turns around and says "Just kidding! We'll totally get rid of our nukes, let's have a sit-down chat, shall we?" The question is why. Why would Kim, after a decade of belligerence and intransigence, suddenly be willing to put on a friendly face and negotiate? It's not like he was forced into it; his regime isn't facing any existential threats, nor had Trump taken an appreciably different tack with him than previous presidents (overly bellicose rhetoric aside), so nothing in that area has changed. It's not hard to figure out the calculus here. Kim has what he wants. He's developed the nuclear weapons he needs to secure his grip on power (and no, it'll be a cold day in hell before he gets rid of them willingly). Now he needs sanctions relief. So he puts on appearances, launches the charm offensive, and pinky-swears that he'll give up these nukes that he's spent all this time, money, and effort into developing. And it worked. Trump took the bait and, in recognition of the successful summit, China has said they're dropping all their sanctions. Kim got the relief he needed for his country. He'll milk this along for as much as he can (and if he can extract concessions from China and Russia for getting the Americans off of the peninsula, he'll do so) but he has absolutely no reason to give up his nuclear ambitions. After all, consider that America was helping support the overthrow of multiple dictators that gave up their nuclear ambitions (Hussein, Gadaffi) and that Trump just demonstrated that the US is willing to tear up nuclear arms control agreements, entered into in good faith and to which all parties are adhering, simply because the current president doesn't like it. A nuclear agreement with America means nothing these days and Kim would be a fool to trust in it. <cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote>With this deal, we actually gain money back that we were spending on being stationed there.</quote> At the cost of basically ceding increasingly dwindling influence in east Asia to China, sure. <cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote>Are you that bad at math? </quote> Not as bad as you are at geopolitics, apparently. <cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote>And on top of that, part of the deal was that we will be putting troops right back if terms are not agreed upon.</quote> And you're not concerned about the military reps who have sounded alarm bells about lack of operational readiness given that the joint military exercises are being halted? Pardon me for doubting your military knowledge, but I trust their word over yours. <cite>OhhhJa posted...</cite> <quote>This time we gave them nothing except the promise of keeping our troops out IF they hold up their end.</quote> You also left out "an end to sanctions", which is North Korea's far bigger win here. You don't think it was coincidence that Kim met twice with the Chinese President just before his meeting with Trump, do you?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Poll of the Day > Trump brushes off Kim's human rights record and advocates for dictatorships. (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > Trump brushes off Kim's human rights record and advocates for dictatorships.