Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 183: For HARDCORE POLITICAL PUNDITS

(+) Yeah! (+)

Eddv posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Disagreements about the implementation of brexit I believe

They said her Brexit deal was too moderate.

It should be noted this deal was negotiated by the first two people who resigned, sparking this crisis.

So mostly its about sticking May with the bag now that they know this isnt going to work.

They didn't quite negotiate this deal - it's not on offer from the EU, just what the UK is now proposing, based on the (very unsuccessful) negotiations so far. Apparently Davis had met with Michel Barnier for about five hours total in 2018...
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Better late than never:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1016857104911618048
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I feel like maybe they shouldnt have put Brexit up to a vote in the first place without a solid hypothetical plan to do so if it won.

Like, the US was never meant to have someone like Trump in office, but at least we set things up to deal with it if it ever happened
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Jakyl25 posted...

I feel like maybe they shouldnt have put Brexit up to a vote in the first place

Yes
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It's almost as if you shouldn't be using direct democracy to decide complicated things...!
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LordoftheMorons posted...

It's almost as if you shouldn't be using direct democracy to decide complicated things...!

Lets put that to a public referendum
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I would definitely vote for a referendum to make it harder to get referendums on the ballot here in CA!
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Is there any way they could get out of Brexit entirely at this point? I don't quite understand the intricacies of British law.

Like saw they held another snap election, and May's party got thoroughly trounced and the people who won were predominantly from a liberal party. Could they just refuse to enforce Brexit? Or do some lame, completely half-assed measure and say "there that counts"?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Like, the US was never meant to have someone like Trump in office, but at least we set things up to deal with it if it ever happened

Have any of those 'things' we have set up actually done anything though?
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Corbyn is more of a eurosceptic than May is. It's not necessarily a left/right issue, although the fact that immigration is such a big part of it means it trends right.

And yes, the government can easily just say "nah" to Brexit, but y'know, WILL OF THE PEOPLE

Can't half-ass it either, though I guess a soft brexit would be the closest thing. But we're kind of either in or out, we can't be in between.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Have any of those 'things' we have set up actually done anything though?

Delayed the Muslim ban for a while!
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KamikazePotato posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Like, the US was never meant to have someone like Trump in office, but at least we set things up to deal with it if it ever happened

Have any of those 'things' we have set up actually done anything though?

Yes, actually.

Imagine Trumps reign in a world with no separation of powers?

Yes, things have gotten worse as Congress becomes his bootlickers and he wields executive authority to near maximum amount.

But I still think Checks and Balances are holding up better than I thought they would.

Could you imagine a successful fascist like Putin fearing to strike down a federal investigation into his campaign the way Trump clearly fears firing Mueller?
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And worse case scenario, if the will of the people is SO dumb as to re-elect him, he cant be President forever.

Would the U.K. be willing to re-do the referendum every 4 years?
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Is there any way they could get out of Brexit entirely at this point? I don't quite understand the intricacies of British law.

Like saw they held another snap election, and May's party got thoroughly trounced and the people who won were predominantly from a liberal party. Could they just refuse to enforce Brexit? Or do some lame, completely half-assed measure and say "there that counts"?

If they campaigned on it, they could probably hold another referendum. But Britain runs on convention much more than the US (the British Constitution is unwritten, after all). Legally, Parliament can do whatever it wants. Realistically, they won't go against the referendum without another one saying they can.
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And the US system is working exactly as designed. There are 4 power centers - the President, the Senate, the House, and the Supreme Court. Win any one of them, and you veto to a large degree the actions of the others. Obviously 2 gives you more power than 1 and 3 gives you more power than 2. But win all 4 and you can do pretty much whatever you want.

It's fairly rare when one side can win all 4 at the same time and when that happens, they get to move the country in the direction they want. If you don't want it to happen - try to avoid losing all the elections at the same time!
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Is there any way they could get out of Brexit entirely at this point? I don't quite understand the intricacies of British law.

Like saw they held another snap election, and May's party got thoroughly trounced and the people who won were predominantly from a liberal party. Could they just refuse to enforce Brexit? Or do some lame, completely half-assed measure and say "there that counts"?

Well Labour are not liberal, they are left wing. Right now they are a socialist party. Jeremy Corbyn is a brexiteer who has opposed the EU since the UK joined. Them getting in would not stop brexit, though it would likely lead to a softer approach. The liberal party is well, the centrist Liberal Democrats who are pro-EU but still recovering from the damage they took in coalition with the Tories. So they will struggle to make a huge impact at the moment. XIII is 100% right, brexit isn't a left/right issue.

As for half-measure that's what we're almost inevitably headed for - some form of Single Market+Customs Union arrangement, probably under a different name. But the hard brexiteers will scream betrayal. They are screaming it at May's compromise, and when that inevitably has to be watered down they will react even worse. The country isn't just divided between leave and remain, even the leavers are divided on what they want.
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Changing topic a little, I like how whenever Trump does anything that especially gets on my nerves something comes along to distract me from that (Anita Sarkeesian basically confirming herself as a bigoted monster last year and the whole stereotyping Star Wars fans as racist/sexist this year).

And the left wonder why they are such a laughingstock.
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Anita Sarkeesian basically confirming herself as a bigoted monster

how did she do this and toward whom is she bigoted
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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Changing topic a little, I like how whenever Trump does anything that especially gets on my nerves something comes along to distract me from that (Anita Sarkeesian basically confirming herself as a bigoted monster last year and the whole stereotyping Star Wars fans as racist/sexist this year).

And the left wonder why they are such a laughingstock.

according to the multiple alignment polls of the other poli topic I'm the biggest lefty on the board and I don't like Sarkeesian at all and I think the stupid toxic star wars fans are getting a bloated amount of attention than they're worth (see: Remake TLJ) and people are falling for blatant trolls (see: We, The Fans of Star Wars) since the "controversy" is such incredibly easy bait now
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Not sure how Sarkeesian or pointing out racism/sexism (correctly or otherwise) have anything to do with the left wing. Sometimes I wonder if people know what left wing politics actually is...
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GuessMyUserName posted...

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Changing topic a little, I like how whenever Trump does anything that especially gets on my nerves something comes along to distract me from that (Anita Sarkeesian basically confirming herself as a bigoted monster last year and the whole stereotyping Star Wars fans as racist/sexist this year).

And the left wonder why they are such a laughingstock.

according to the multiple alignment polls of the other poli topic I'm the biggest lefty on the board and I don't like Sarkeesian at all and I think the stupid toxic star wars fans are getting a bloated amount of attention than they're worth (see: Remake TLJ) and people are falling for blatant trolls (see: We, The Fans of Star Wars) since the "controversy" is such incredibly easy bait now

Twitter liberals literally dont realize that by accepting the terms of the identity debate the way they do that they literally cast themselves as the minority.

Like the way to combat white supremacy isn't by attacking white supremacy directly - that's hardly going to change peoples minds because if they arent prima facie rejecting it then continuing to contest it on those terms is futile.

The way to combat is just by having a different, better idea that draws them away from it.
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XIII_rocks posted...

Corbyn is more of a eurosceptic than May is. It's not necessarily a left/right issue, although the fact that immigration is such a big part of it means it trends right.

And yes, the government can easily just say "nah" to Brexit, but y'know, WILL OF THE PEOPLE

Can't half-ass it either, though I guess a soft brexit would be the closest thing. But we're kind of either in or out, we can't be in between.

To me the most insane part is that it was ever going to hinge on a simple majority vote.

David Cameron is fucking daft.
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I think it's because social justice politics are typically seen as leftist ideologies. When I asked why do people view the left as such an enemy in an earlier thread someone told me that it's because they go and call everything racist or sexist. Also since such people typically use "alt right" as a shorthand for "bigot".

Personally I'm still mostly puzzled by how people thought this was worth enough attention to elect Donald Trump as POTUS. Most of the gaming circles I frequent never bring up Anita or Gamergate, so obviously they can't be such a big deal right?

I will admit much of the reason why I even got remotely into keeping track of politics was due to the whole Ghostbusters 2016 fiasco and James Rolfe being caught in the crossfire.

Okay, maybe "laughingstock" was not the right word, but there's a lot of anti-left sentiment in America which is a big reason why Trump is able to get away with so much dumb stuff. Someone told me that lots of Republicans would prefer Putin as President over any Democrat. And most of the reason I see for the anti-left sentiment relates to social justice warriors and such.

Oh and, it probably doesn't help that in that one book of hers, Hillary Clinton speaks favorably of social justice, feminism, and Black Lives Matter.
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

Anita Sarkeesian basically confirming herself as a bigoted monster

how did she do this and toward whom is she bigoted

The major reason was her being given a panel at VidCon, and some YouTube news people like MudaneMatt, Dave Cullen, and Sargon of Akkad showed up at the panel to listen. Because those people have often reported on idiotic stuff Anita has done and they sat in the front row, Anita felt intimidated and then decided to lash out, calling Sargon names like "shithead" and "garbage human". Then later that same convention, she unleashed a tirade on another anxious guy just for daring to share his experiences, all because his point of view clashed with Anita's ability to play the victim card.

Then the people in charge of the convention took her side despite her breaking rules by publicly defaming an audience member, because they took her words about the intimidating people in question being "serial harassers" completely at face value (when all these people did was weigh in on her statements and ration out why they disagreed), despite in their own words, remaining "blissfully unaware" of the situation.. And THEN Anita doubled down by basically saying that "I'm a woman in a deeply misogynistic culture" as an excuse for defaming someone - even if that were the case (which is at worst EXTREMELY debatable - she also literally said "women are 2nd class citizens in their own country - which is laughable about any Western nation), that still does not excuse her actions. Add in an undercurrent of misandry in her body of work and ye gods, I'd say she's more bigoted than Trump.

Anita said of the guy that she called a "garbage human" that he "literally made a career out of discrediting and mocking women", which, if you look at his content (this is "Sargon of Akkad" by the way) is a blatant lie. If anything Anita is self-projecting herself here.

Oh and right before she put out a video called "Manufacturing a Muslim Menace" which was so ridiculous. It basically came down to "any instance of a white guy killing a brown guy comes with unfortunate implications" (even using one famous Indiana Jones scene in a montage of examples), and "Muslim terrorism is a fabrication of the media". Oh. My. God.

I hope I'm not turning into Ulti!
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what the fucking hell just happened
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Add in an undercurrent of misandry in her body of work and ye gods, I'd say she's more bigoted than Trump

wew lad
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If you think you saw yourself cross the Ulti line its usually because you have.
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Perhaps that's a radical position to take, but at least Trump didn't build his whole career out of bigotry like the current crop of feminists.
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LMS can you post that shit in vlado's topic? you'll probably find a more receptive audience over there.
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LinkMarioSamus posted...

like the current crop of feminists.

Ok yeah you're going down the ulti path now, pal. Broad, sweeping attributions of one individual to all who are remotely similar? That's like, ulti 101!
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I dunno, just something that really draws my ire, and it feels like it shouldn't yet it does.

You guys want to discuss Hillary Clinton's book "What Happened?" instead?
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Not particularly. She's not in politics. She's not in power. There are plenty of current events that can be discussed, which have an actual bearing on our lives.
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That's fine. Like I said, I admit that most of the reason I even started keeping track of politics was due to that Ghostbusters fiasco two years ago.
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LinkMarioSamus posted...

MoogleKupo141 posted...

Anita Sarkeesian basically confirming herself as a bigoted monster

how did she do this and toward whom is she bigoted

The major reason was her being given a panel at VidCon, and some YouTube news people like MudaneMatt, Dave Cullen, and Sargon of Akkad showed up at the panel to listen. Because those people have often reported on idiotic stuff Anita has done and they sat in the front row, Anita felt intimidated and then decided to lash out, calling Sargon names like "shithead" and "garbage human". Then later that same convention, she unleashed a tirade on another anxious guy just for daring to share his experiences, all because his point of view clashed with Anita's ability to play the victim card.

Then the people in charge of the convention took her side despite her breaking rules by publicly defaming an audience member, because they took her words about the intimidating people in question being "serial harassers" completely at face value (when all these people did was weigh in on her statements and ration out why they disagreed), despite in their own words, remaining "blissfully unaware" of the situation.. And THEN Anita doubled down by basically saying that "I'm a woman in a deeply misogynistic culture" as an excuse for defaming someone - even if that were the case (which is at worst EXTREMELY debatable - she also literally said "women are 2nd class citizens in their own country - which is laughable about any Western nation), that still does not excuse her actions. Add in an undercurrent of misandry in her body of work and ye gods, I'd say she's more bigoted than Trump.

Anita said of the guy that she called a "garbage human" that he "literally made a career out of discrediting and mocking women", which, if you look at his content (this is "Sargon of Akkad" by the way) is a blatant lie. If anything Anita is self-projecting herself here.

Oh and right before she put out a video called "Manufacturing a Muslim Menace" which was so ridiculous. It basically came down to "any instance of a white guy killing a brown guy comes with unfortunate implications" (even using one famous Indiana Jones scene in a montage of examples), and "Muslim terrorism is a fabrication of the media". Oh. My. God.

I hope I'm not turning into Ulti!

https://giphy.com/gifs/fx-charlie-always-sunny-l0IylOPCNkiqOgMyA
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Holy shit

Pepe Sylvia is Charlie trying to read Pennsylvania

I never got that
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Augh which gif site allows for direct linking in GameFAQS again?
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Was LMS always like this? Or is this a recent development?
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I think LMS has just been jebaited by culture wars BS super hard.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Was LMS always like this? Or is this a recent development?

I mean, yes, just he didn't bring himself to politics.

Must've gotten bored of people thinking his gaming opinions were shit.
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LMS is a bot
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Relatively recent but it's been coming

Not good, obviously, but he at least seemed to know some of the problems with what he was saying
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LinkMarioSamus posted...

That's fine. Like I said, I admit that most of the reason I even started keeping track of politics was due to that Ghostbusters fiasco two years ago.

What a great reason!

Seriously though, I'm pretty sure most people who were vocal about that (for the reasons you're objecting to) have since come to the realization that defending Hollywood schlock isn't a good use of their time just because it happens to star women.

In other words, you're not just in Ulti territory. You're in Nanis territory.
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NY Times put out an article EVISCERATING Boris for being an absolute clown today.
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https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5b4587d7e4b07aea75454510

Just sharing this for the headline, which I like to imagine is meant literally
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5b4587d7e4b07aea75454510

Just sharing this for the headline, which I like to imagine is meant literally

Let us hope.
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.
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Hearthstone is skill based and easy to play.
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