Board 8 > Anagram Plays Persona 5: Expensive Overleveled Personas Editions (spoiler)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Joker's attack against the final boss got reflected and killed me. Sounds like the game wants me to stop playing for tonight, and I will comply.
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This is what, the third final boss now?
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Mewtwo59 posted...

The Japanese version just used old clips from the past games when real Igor showed up. I don't know why they couldn't have done that for the English localization too.

Probably because Igor's Japanese VA died shortly after P4, and they've been reusing his lines ever since.
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mnkboy907 posted...

This is what, the third final boss now?

Man, not my fault the game has so many seemingly final bosses. And in my defense, they're all phases of the same final boss. But I'm pretty sure this one is the true final boss because it turned into a building-sized angel and proclaimed itself a silly-looking god.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Mewtwo59 posted...

The Japanese version just used old clips from the past games when real Igor showed up. I don't know why they couldn't have done that for the English localization too.

Probably because Igor's Japanese VA died shortly after P4, and they've been reusing his lines ever since.

Yeah, that's why they had to reuse his old lines in the Japanese version. I was wondering why they didn't reuse the lines in the English version if they couldn't get Igor's original English VA back, since as far as I know he's still alive.
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Pride = Ingratitude? I'm not sure those things quite match up.
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The very brief return of Arsenne! If I'd kept using him, would he have the same very large number of new moves to learn like the other party personas? I fused him very quickly.
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And then the cat flies into the air and disintegrates while telling us some minor philosophy about subjectivity.
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Sae sounds amazed that they were able to find the woman involved in the original assault case, as if that would be a difficult thing to do. More importantly, I get that that assault charge is now rescinded, but isn't Brent Johnson still guilty of the much more serious crimes associated with the Phantom Thieves?
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Sojiro shows up to take Brent Johnson back.. and not his parents. Man, they must be the worst parents in Japan.
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Anagram posted...

I get that that assault charge is now rescinded, but isn't Brent Johnson still guilty of the much more serious crimes associated with the Phantom Thieves?

He got immunity in exchange for testimony against Shido.
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This ending is as long as MGS2's.
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Anagram posted...

EDIT: Just looked it up and the answer is apparently no.

Yep. He also suffers from the same exp curve as other player personas, so levelling him up past like level six would start to be super slow and not worth.
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Actually, I don't remember, did we actually finish Sae's Palace? I don't remember seeing it collapse or what happened with her treasure. Might be a dumb question.
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Anagram posted...

Actually, I don't remember, did we actually finish Sae's Palace? I don't remember seeing it collapse or what happened with her treasure. Might be a dumb question.

Nope.

Her heart was never stolen.

And with that, the Saga of Brent Johnson comes to a close.

I would rate this as a truly excellent game. It's not the best JRPG I've ever played or anything, but I thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish (101 hours for me, so probably closer to 102 if you include the deaths). I'd say it ranges from solid to fantastic in every regard (especially music). The side characters aren't all the best, but all of the main characters accomplish what they need to do almost perfectly. There are some extremely cool ideas l love like normal real world places being warped into crazy dungeons.

If I was going to point to the weakest aspect of the story/characters, it would be the ending. Shido's Palace is emotionally satisfying, unique, properly fits with the stylish tone of the game, and Shido himself is the antagonist of not just the game but also of Brent Johnson. Defeating him feels like the climax of the story, but then the game just keeps going. This happens a lot with JRPGs, where you defeat the antagonist and then it turns out there's a big monster afterward whom you don't care about except in abstract terms ("I represent fate, you represent rebellion") or the fact that he wants to destroy humanity or whatever. The final dungeon and boss are all about fate and god and all of that, have no real personal connection to any of the main characters (Morgana, I guess, but even he doesn't seem any more invested in what's happening than anyone else does), and fall more into standard JRPG fare than I was expecting. How many gods have been killed in JRPG final battles, really? It's surprising they aren't an endangered species at this point. A wacky cruise boat captained by a corrupt politician dressed in a general uniform with the Statue of Liberty's tiara is way more compelling than an evil pseudo-god who attacks with perverted forms of the Seven Deadly Sins.

Probably the most impressive thing about the game is how half of it is about Brent Johnson doing normal things like hanging out with his friends or studying for a test and yet it not only remains compelling throughout, but I actually looked forward to those scenes more than the combat and dungeons. I can imagine this game being a nightmare for 100% completionists, though. I very rarely bother trying to 100% a game, and Persona 5 would be just about the worst thing to ever try that with.

I haven't played any of the other Persona games, so the best I can really do to rank it relative to other games is to compare it to another JRPG series. If I was to rank Persona 5 among Final Fantasy games, I'd say it goes something like this:
FFVII > FFX > FFVI > Persona 5 > FFVIII > FFIV > FFV > FFIX > FFI > FFXII > FFIII > FFII
Overall, I'd give this game around a 9.7/10. There are some minor things that I wouldn't object to changing, but it nails everything it needs to nail.

This game has made me more interested in the series. I definitely won't play anything Persona-related for at least half a year or more, but I could see myself trying out the earlier titles. I don't know whether to try Persona 1, 3, or 4 first, though people seem to suggest 3 or 4 the most.

Makoto > Futaba > Kawakami > Ann > Tae > Hifumi = Haru > Chihaya > Ohya
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Argh, there was an Alice in Wonderland persona? I'd have used that for sure if I'd have known.
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Anagram posted...

If I was going to point to the weakest aspect of the story/characters, it would be the ending. Shido's Palace is emotionally satisfying, unique, properly fits with the stylish tone of the game, and Shido himself is the antagonist of not just the game but also of Brent Johnson. Defeating him feels like the climax of the story, but then the game just keeps going. This happens a lot with JRPGs, where you defeat the antagonist and then it turns out there's a big monster afterward whom you don't care about except in abstract terms ("I represent fate, you represent rebellion") or the fact that he wants to destroy humanity or whatever. The final dungeon and boss are all about fate and god and all of that, have no real personal connection to any of the main characters (Morgana, I guess, but even he doesn't seem any more invested in what's happening than anyone else does), and fall more into standard JRPG fare than I was expecting. How many gods have been killed in JRPG final battles, really? It's surprising they aren't an endangered species at this point. A wacky cruise boat captained by a corrupt politician dressed in a general uniform with the Statue of Liberty's tiara is way more compelling than an evil pseudo-god who attacks with perverted forms of the Seven Deadly Sins.

I heavily disagree with this and I feel like you missed the point of the ending... which is unfortunately common.

The story isn't about the Phantom Thieves vs Shido. It's about oppressed people rebelling against corruption in society. Shido was a symptom. He was a big symptom, sure, but not the main enemy. The main enemy was society itself. The whole point of the ending is that the Phantom Thieves were a symbol to spark change in people themselves, because that's where true change has to come from (and why Futaba and Sae both changed even though their hearts were never stolen). Society has to change itself, nobody can do it for them, and defeating Yaldabaoth with everyone cheering them on was to show that people support that notion.

The story would have been incredibly incomplete if it had ended with Shido.

I just loved that you save the day at the end by using Satan to shoot God in the head on Christmas Eve.
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tcaz2 posted...

I heavily disagree with this and I feel like you missed the point of the ending... which is unfortunately common.

The story isn't about the Phantom Thieves vs Shido. It's about oppressed people rebelling against corruption in society. Shido was a symptom. He was a big symptom, sure, but not the main enemy. The main enemy was society itself. The whole point of the ending is that the Phantom Thieves were a symbol to spark change in people themselves, because that's where true change has to come from (and why Futaba and Sae both changed even though their hearts were never stolen). Society has to change itself, nobody can do it for them, and defeating Yaldabaoth with everyone cheering them on was to show that people support that notion.

The story would have been incredibly incomplete if it had ended with Shido.

I understand the theme of the game and that society being apathetic is a major part of it, but Yaldabaoth isn't at all compelling as a villain. He's a few notches above Necron from FFIX, but the only interesting thing about him is what he represents as an abstract. Also the final dungeon is the most boring one in the game. You're correct that the story would have been incomplete if it ended with Shido as is, but I feel like you could write things so a Shido ending would be complete.

Murphiroth posted...

I just loved that you save the day at the end by using Satan to shoot God in the head on Christmas Eve.

That was a fun little moment. I was surprised how many Satan-themed personas there are, too.
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I really came around on the ending after I looked into Gnosticism on my own and understood the symbolism much better than I did when I was actually playing.
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trdl23 posted...

I really came around on the ending after I looked into Gnosticism on my own and understood the symbolism much better than I did when I was actually playing.

Mm, I'll admit to not knowing much about that subject.
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Also, what exactly is the Persona series' connection to SMT? I don't know anything about SMT, just that it has some kind of connection.
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Persona is simply a spin-off of SMT, and still shares the demon/fusing mechanics with SMT. It just ended up becoming far more mainstream than the main franchise.
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Persona takes place in high school. SMT takes place in a post-apocalyptic hell land.
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But it's all still Tokyo!

Except Strange Journey.
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Grand Kirby posted...

Persona takes place in high school. SMT takes place in a post-apocalyptic hell land.

Then is SMT in the future?
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I feel P5's ending is kinda flat/weak but not really for the reasons you do it seems. It just feels really rushed IMO. The whole Mementos/Yaldabaoth thing is fine by me and works thematically and all (and for someone who played P3/P4 first Igor not being himself is kind of something that continually builds through the game which is something you unfortunately wouldn't have starting with P5.)

It's just... everything after Shido happens too fast. You literally get one free day and a handful of cutscenes then get tossed in Mementos for the finale and a bunch of time skips.

What really sells the theme for me is that when you wander Tokyo on 3/19 most of the townspeople dialogue you overhear (the bubbles that pop up as you walk, not actual talking) show that nothing really changed. Only a handful seem to reflect a "change of heart" and I think that's for the best. It's a kind of hopeful melancholy and much better than if you magically reformed all of society.

but ugh it was all still rushed. Make it a normal sized arc somehow. And find a way to expand the post stuff even though that would be a bit harder.
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Anagram posted...

Grand Kirby posted...

Persona takes place in high school. SMT takes place in a post-apocalyptic hell land.

Then is SMT in the future?

Sometimes, but a lot of the time it's just an apocalyptic level event happens in modern day and the game either takes place right after it happens or some years after it happens.
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mnkboy907 posted...

Anagram posted...

Grand Kirby posted...

Persona takes place in high school. SMT takes place in a post-apocalyptic hell land.

Then is SMT in the future?

Sometimes, but a lot of the time it's just an apocalyptic level event happens in modern day and the game either takes place right after it happens or some years after it happens.

So theyre not canon to each other, right?
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Correct, theyre not related in any story way.
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If you didn't do Mementos at all during the game, do you need to go through all of it to reach the ending? Because I just skipped ahead to the final door when the time came.
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Anagram posted...

I don't know whether to try Persona 1, 3, or 4 first, though people seem to suggest 3 or 4 the most.

just be warned that P1 and P2 aren't like the others if you decide to try those
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I think you don't have to fight the bosses, but you still have to get to the bottom floor.
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trdl23 posted...

Correct, theyre not related in any story way.

This is the best way to word it. As far as mainline SMT goes, it's completely feasible that any/all of the Persona games happen in the same universe as any of the mainline SMT games. But even if they did, it literally doesn't matter and has zero impact.
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LeonhartFour posted...

just be warned that P1 and P2 aren't like the others if you decide to try those

If I play 3 or 4, which one should I start with? I know that people have told me that each lacks the amenities that 5 created.
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I think Persona 4 (the Golden version on Vita specifically) is the best game among them and it's not particularly close, but P3 will be very hard to get into if you save it for last (or even if you don't, probably) unless you can play the PSP port, which upgrades the controls a bit.
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All I have is a PS3, sadly. I've heard from this topic about the improvements on the PSP version, but such is life.
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It's going to be difficult to get into P3 or P4 no matter which you start in. P3/P4 came out about two years between each other while P5 was a decade later than both.

I think playing the original versions of P3/P4 is fine. P3Portable is a sidegrade, not an upgrade, and Persona 4 Golden doesn't improve stuff to the point where it's an entirely different experience or anything.
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KamikazePotato posted...

Persona 4 Golden doesn't improve stuff to the point where it's an entirely different experience or anything.

it's an undeniably better experience even if it's not drastically different

just the sheer amount of new content is pretty staggering
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Oh also

What was the point of the batting cages? I only did it once.
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like many things in Persona 5, it helps build your stats
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There's also an achievement if you can hit a home run.
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Having just played Persona 4 on the PS2 maybe only 2-3 years ago, the game is still pretty fresh in my mind, and I'd recommend that one, as it's more similar to Persona 5 than Persona 3 is. Persona 4 is basically the rural version of Persona 5 as it takes place in a small town away from the big city.

I personally think Persona 4 is slightly better than Persona 5 from a story perspective. The fighting part of it, I'd probably have to give the edge to Persona 5.
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At the AX Persona 5 panel again this year!

https://imgur.com/a/y4DfKMr
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I didn't realize Persona 5 was enduring enough to still get panels years after its release.
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you're kidding right

for one thing P5 just came out last year

for another thing there's an anime adaptation ongoing right now

for yet another Persona is very popular
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I was unaware of any anime adaptations. I also thought P5 came out two years ago instead of one year.
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Anagram posted...

Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

Happy anniversary!
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swirIdude posted...

Anagram posted...

Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

Happy anniversary!

You are the first person to ever wish that for my sig. I would've completely not noticed. Thank you!
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