Current Events > Why do people want to get rid of alcoholics anonymous?

(+) Yeah! (+)

what's up with that? i thought they did good things
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They should be replaced by secular addiction help programs.
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

They should be replaced by secular addiction help programs.

This. They're outdated. I understand that some people just need to be addicts, so they use Jesus to replace drugs or alcohol, but it's not correcting the issue, merely refocusing it.
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It's got heavy, heavy ties to Christianity

That alone would be bad enough for some people, but there are also some practices they follow that would not be conducive to LGBT and others
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it should just be a part of the DARE program

as in, i DARE you to shotgun this beer with me!!!
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YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

It's got heavy, heavy ties to Christianity

It does? How the fuck does an atheist use it then?
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_BIueMonk posted...

it should just be a part of the DARE program

as in, i DARE you to shotgun this beer with me!!!

hell yeah
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DavidWong posted...

YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

It's got heavy, heavy ties to Christianity

It does? How the fuck does an atheist use it then?

there are alternative alcoholics treatment groups

or you deal with it like how an atheist dragged to church does
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YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

DavidWong posted...

YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

It's got heavy, heavy ties to Christianity

It does? How the fuck does an atheist use it then?

there are alternative alcoholics treatment groups

or you deal with it like how an atheist dragged to church does

man, every day I find something out that makes me more and more glad I'm not American.
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DavidWong posted...

man, every day I find something out that makes me more and more glad I'm not American.

<_<

i mean
this country was founded by puritans literally too conservative for European churches
Too zany for the Dutch

what do you expect
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I've read that statistically AA isn't any more effective than no treatment at all. But that could be wrong idr how I heard that.
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because they have been living in anonymity for far too long, who are these people? i for one would like to know and shame them
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MorbidFaithless posted...

I've read that statistically AA isn't any more effective than no treatment at all. But that could be wrong idr how I heard that.

well i mean
people slip up and fall off the wagon
it happens

i guess what im trying to say is

there are people that will try and there are people that won't
that won't change in AA or without
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MorbidFaithless posted...

I've read that statistically AA isn't any more effective than no treatment at all. But that could be wrong idr how I heard that.

Same, I heard that their success rate is ~5%, compared to parallel secular programs at ~5% and non-program individual sobriety efforts at ~5%. I also don't recall where I read this and therefore have no source.
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So as someone who actually has been in AA:

It's not nearly as Christian as you think.

The concept of a Higher Power can be anything. I know people who have their power be a Group Of Drunks, I know a guy who's power is a piece of paper with four sentences written on it.
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My pops did AA. He's been clean for years now. I'm proud of him. He even offers me drinks all the time, but I never accept a drink in front of him
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DrizztLink posted...

So as someone who actually has been in AA:

It's not nearly as Christian as you think.

The concept of a Higher Power can be anything. I know people who have their power be a Group Of Drunks, I know a guy who's power is a piece of paper with four sentences written on it.

well supposedly it differs wildly based on your group?

some testimony says they were basically being recruited into church

others sound more like your experience where its more spiritual than religious

edit: obvi you'd know more, having been in it
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It's a process that was started nearly 100 years ago. Just think of what we have learned about psychology and physiology in the past 100 years. There's actually some great stuff in there but there's plenty of outdated shit too.
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YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

well supposedly it differs wildly based on your group?

Yeah, true.

If the religious aspect is a turnoff there's always NA.

Says right in their literature "Alcohol IS a drug," and they are much more disconnected from religion in favor of more spiritual stuff.

Jiek_Fafn posted...

There's actually some great stuff in there but there's plenty of outdated shit too.

That's why you get a sponser. Just the literature isn't enough, working it with someone who worked it with someone teaches you the program as it evolved, not as Bill and Dr Bob wrote it in the 30s.
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DrizztLink posted...

So as someone who actually has been in AA:

It's not nearly as Christian as you think.

The concept of a Higher Power can be anything. I know people who have their power be a Group Of Drunks, I know a guy who's power is a piece of paper with four sentences written on it.

What's the point of that though?
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

DrizztLink posted...

So as someone who actually has been in AA:

It's not nearly as Christian as you think.

The concept of a Higher Power can be anything. I know people who have their power be a Group Of Drunks, I know a guy who's power is a piece of paper with four sentences written on it.

What's the point of that though?

A "let go" sort of thing.

"We ceased trying to control everything and everyone."
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as someone who has been through both, NA tends to be less religious/spiritual in nature than AA. But both still ultimately require that you accept a "power greater than yourself."

If you're an atheist or some form of agnostic, you can usually get around this through silly reinterpretations of the word God in the literature like "Group o' Drunks"

Other than that, some of the 12 steps are fucking hard. Have you ever looked into what the 9th Step really entails? That shit's a bummer sometimes

MorbidFaithless posted...

I've read that statistically AA isn't any more effective than no treatment at all. But that could be wrong idr how I heard that.

I've seen that mentioned a lot.

The problem is that alcoholism, like any addiction, is an extremely dense puzzle of influences and habits and mental states and chemical dependencies.

It's absurd to think you can reduce the process of dealing with this to "follow these 12 cult-like steps."
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I havent heard about this.

I have been sober for almost two years and AA was part of my treatment plan (not court ordered; never been in trouble). I didnt like it from the start and I felt more and more uncomfortable the further into it we got.

Okay, I am a Christian, but I felt that the level of religion put into this is very offputting to non Christians. It was too much for me. The whole thing felt like I was an inductee in some big, secret organization. Secret handshakes and everybody else knows each other.

I cant deny that many people get help there, but its not for everybody and it actually made me want to drink (a lot of people said this when we were back at our group setting, but we didnt understand why). It just had this weird cult kind of feeling to it, like the people were all brainwashed or under some kind of mind control.
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LinksLiege posted...

MorbidFaithless posted...

I've read that statistically AA isn't any more effective than no treatment at all. But that could be wrong idr how I heard that.

I've seen that mentioned a lot.

The problem is that alcoholism, like any addiction, is an extremely dense puzzle of influences and habits and mental states and chemical dependencies.

It's absurd to think you can reduce the process of dealing with this to "follow these 12 cult-like steps."

Its not reductive, and its not cult-like. A big element of this is open-mindedness, and through the 9 programs Ive been involved in, noone has ever been so much as asked about their religious beliefs.

Everyone has some sort of bias, but you need to refrain from terms like "cult-like".
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Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

LinksLiege posted...

MorbidFaithless posted...

I've read that statistically AA isn't any more effective than no treatment at all. But that could be wrong idr how I heard that.

I've seen that mentioned a lot.

The problem is that alcoholism, like any addiction, is an extremely dense puzzle of influences and habits and mental states and chemical dependencies.

It's absurd to think you can reduce the process of dealing with this to "follow these 12 cult-like steps."

Its not reductive, and its not cult-like. A big element of this is open-mindedness, and through the 9 programs Ive been involved in, noone has ever been so much as asked about their religious beliefs.

Everyone has some sort of bias, but you need to refrain from terms like "cult-like".

Eh, I've been a member of AA groups that are super strict, and there's one in particular in my area that is really cult-like. If you're interested, read up on the AA Midtown group out of Maryland. I went to several meetings there and very quickly realized that it's less an AA group for people who want to recover, and more one where abuse and indoctrination of newcomers is rampant.

That's not a condemnation of AA as a whole, but rather an example of how people with "experience" can easily take advantage of people that are down and out, especially young women.

treewojima posted...

That's not a condemnation of AA as a whole, but rather an example of how people with "experience" can easily take advantage of people that are down and out, especially young women.

We call that "13 stepping" and it's frowned upon.
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i think more people need to watch the sitcom mom
its wonderful and it shows AA in a positive way
its not treated as a cure for the disease but a coping mechanism that helps give people a support group that helps them hold onto their sobriety
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DrizztLink posted...

treewojima posted...

That's not a condemnation of AA as a whole, but rather an example of how people with "experience" can easily take advantage of people that are down and out, especially young women.

We call that "13 stepping" and it's frowned upon.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the 13th step lol. My old roommate in a sober house used to make fun of his girlfriend for that, and she hated it. Midtown is full of it.

Plenty of AA groups forego the Christianity part, but instead preach that you need to give yourself up to a higher power as an admittance that the disease fouls the minds clarity. Be it be a God, the group, community or whatever. You need to have faith in it and follow the guidelines and guidance given when the disease tries to rip you away from sobriety.

If youre in a group that tries to force religion, go to a good group. Sadly that might not be the case in all regions though

It's not perfect but has success and most importantly it's free. It's a resource that'd be foolish to try to get rid of. Of course it's best used along side a medical doctor or team.
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