Current Events > Starbucks' straw ban actually uses more plastic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Saying stuff like "Starbucks only cares about the environment because it benefits the company" sounds like a good thing. It's unreasonable to expect a corporation to make those changes if they didn't benefit from it. Doing a good thing for a selfish reason is still a good thing
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Basically, Starbucks made things worse, threw disabled and people with certain medical issues under the bus, and will still come out ahead because they spun the story in their favor.

For what it's worth, I've never seen a recycle bin in any Starbucks. So I already knew from the getgo that this would end up being harmful to disabled persons and pointless for the environment at best.
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rikasa posted...

Saying stuff like "Starbucks only cares about the environment because it benefits the company" sounds like a good thing. It's unreasonable to expect a corporation to make those changes if they didn't benefit from it. Doing a good thing for a selfish reason is still a good thing

This isn't a good thing and putting conservation efforts on consumers when it's corporations that are the biggest contributors to pollutions and greenhouse emissions is totally awful.
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how is the effort on the consumer in this situation, except for the fact that they can choose where their dollar goes?
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rikasa posted...

how is the effort on the consumer in this situation, except for the fact that they can choose where their dollar goes?

Because it's forcing this policy upon the customer, when there's other ways that don't harm disabled people that the company could help to cut down on the amount of trash that ends up in the ocean.
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Are you saying the new lids harm disabled people...?
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rikasa posted...

Are you saying the new lids harm disabled people...?

They can't use them. Some can use paper straws but others can't. Some need straws that can bend so it can reach their mouth. There's plenty more to it like taking medicine with straws and how paper ones do end up leaking paper into the drink and will end up being unsafe for certain people. But there's plenty of articles on the subject that are weeks old by now.
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So does starbucks currently give out bendy straws if you're disabled enough? Lmao. They could easily offer straws and old lids in special circumstances. You're talking about a percentile of customers that's a fraction of 1%. If only disabled people used straws it seems the environment would be much better off.
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rikasa posted...

So does starbucks currently give out bendy straws if you're disabled enough? Lmao. They could easily offer straws and old lids in special circumstances. You're talking about a percentile of customers that's a fraction of 1%. If only disabled people used straws it seems the environment would be much better off.

Disabled people who don't "look" disabled enough get insulted or worse very frequently when using a wheelchair, handicapped parking spot or other basic amenities meant to improve their accessibility in our society.

And straws are practically a non-issue in terms of just plastic waste. When compared to all waste, it's doing virtually no harm to the environment.

Funny that a video of a sad tortoise is able to get more attention and policy change than dozens of stories of police brutality every year.
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gunplagirl posted...

rikasa posted...

Saying stuff like "Starbucks only cares about the environment because it benefits the company" sounds like a good thing. It's unreasonable to expect a corporation to make those changes if they didn't benefit from it. Doing a good thing for a selfish reason is still a good thing

This isn't a good thing and putting conservation efforts on consumers when it's corporations that are the biggest contributors to pollutions and greenhouse emissions is totally awful.

Actually, it isn't even corporations. It's literally government.
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rikasa posted...

how is the effort on the consumer in this situation, except for the fact that they can choose where their dollar goes?

The conservation effort is put entirely on the shoulders of Starbucks' customers, since Starbucks doesn't recycle in-store.
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Well, I guess your point is that the only form of environmental trash activism you'll accept can't be inconvenient to any number of people at all and can't ask for any effort or input from the masses of people who are actually the ones using all this shit. Which I don't necessarily disagree with because I think we're just way beyond the point of fixing anything. But at the very least I would like to give corporations the impression that reducing negative environmental impact is good marketing and a worthwhile thing for them to do.

Maybe someday the government will just ban all trash and it won't be that bad
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rikasa posted...

Well, I guess your point is that the only form of environmental trash activism you'll accept can't be inconvenient to any number of people at all and can't ask for any effort or input from the masses of people who are actually the ones using all this shit. Which I don't necessarily disagree with because I think we're just way beyond the point of fixing anything. But at the very least I would like to give corporations the impression that reducing negative environmental impact is good marketing and a worthwhile thing for them to do.

Maybe someday the government will just ban all trash and it won't be that bad

You might have an argument if not for the fact that Starbucks' venture IS LITERALLY WORSE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.

STARBUCKS DOESN'T EVEN RECYCLE AT THE STORE LEVEL, SO THEIR NEW LIDS WILL STILL END UP IN LANDFILLS INSTEAD OF RECYCLING CENTERS. Considering that the new lids have more plastic than the old straw/lid combo, they aren't reducing shit - you've just bought into marketing buzzwords meant to placate idiots.
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It's not incredibly effective, I agree with that. They're going off the idea that straws are particularly bad for recylcing given their shape.
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rikasa posted...

It's not incredibly effective, I agree with that. They're going off the idea that straws are particularly bad for recylcing given their shape.

Literally causing more pollution is 'not particularly effective?'

Like, you're just trolling, right? You're not really this dense.
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I'm not sure why you're acting like 0% of the new lids will get recycled. But the best thing to do would be to redesign it better. I'm not really defending that aspect and never did really. The facts are right there.
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More reason to buy a reusable coffee cup.

rikasa posted...

I'm not sure why you're acting like 0% of the new lids will get recycled. But the best thing to do would be to redesign it better. I'm not really defending that aspect and never did really. The facts are right there.

The amount that will be recycled is about the same as the old lids and straws. There's no reason to believe otherwise. This means that about the same amount will end up in landfills.

Meaning literally more plastic pollution.

But hey, as long as they got good liberal buzzwords, right? Who gives a fuck about actual results?
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Whoa, if the amount is the same then no straw is clearly better.
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rikasa posted...

Whoa, if the amount is the same then no straw is clearly better.

The amount of lids is the same.

The lids have significantly more plastic now.

It's literally worse.

How is this not getting through to you? Like, how do you not understand this very basic fucking thing we've been discussing for a day ajd a half?
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Well, there was another post that said the straws fuck up the recycling machines because of their annoying shape. Seattle's banning straws in general so they must feel that eliminating straws in particular will help the facilities run smoother. Seattle takes their recycling pretty seriously, I don't think Starbucks really expects the average middle america customer to make any contribution to our nationwide recycling no matter how many grams they're throwing away daily. It would definitely clearly be best if the lid used a half gram less plastic. But maybe they are just trolling people with Parkinson's which would be kinda sick.
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rikasa posted...

Well, there was another post that said the straws fuck up the recycling machines because of their annoying shape. Seattle's banning straws in general so they must feel that eliminating straws in particular will help the facilities run smoother. Seattle takes their recycling pretty seriously, I don't think Starbucks really expects the average middle america customer to make any contribution to our nationwide recycling no matter how many grams they're throwing away daily. It would definitely clearly be best if the lid used a half gram less plastic. But maybe they are just trolling people with Parkinson's which would be kinda sick.

If Starbucks doesn't expect their customers to, why don't they have a single recycling bin in their stores?
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I'm not sure why you say that. I've seen one at every one I've been to. It's a trash can split down the middle and marked "recycling/trash". Maybe they don't have them in cities that don't recycle much.
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rikasa posted...

I'm not sure why you say that. I've seen one at every one I've been to. It's a trash can split down the middle and marked "recycling/trash". Maybe they don't have them in cities that don't recycle much.

Hint - both bags end up in the garbage dumpster, on its way to the landfill. Don't believe me? Drive around to the back of the store - you'll see a garbage dumpster and a cardboard dumpster, like every restaurant in America.
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Yeah, I've heard that argument a lot. I don't romanticize the impact of recycling. We are definitely already fucked. In some ways part of the marketing here is selling the illusion that you're not actively poisoning the earth every day you exist w/ everything you do.
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rikasa posted...

Yeah, I've heard that argument a lot. I don't romanticize the impact of recycling. We are definitely already fucked. In some ways part of the marketing here is selling the illusion that you're not actively poisoning the earth every day you exist w/ everything you do.

And you're in this thread buying that bullshit.
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I have a pretty good understanding of all sides. If you find certain angles threatening you don't have to think about it.
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rikasa posted...

I have a pretty good understanding of all sides. If you find certain angles threatening you don't have to think about it.

You literally don't understand any of it, based on every post you've made here.
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rikasa has to be trolling
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I'm not trolling, I just like thinking about the different aspects of it. I get that you guys don't like hearing it and I don't really care either.
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rikasa posted...

I'm not trolling, I just like thinking about the different aspects of it. I get that you guys don't like hearing it and I don't really care either.

You literally aren't looking at 'different aspects,' because there's no 'other aspect' to look at. Literally adding more plastic to landfills as part of a plan to add less to landfills is a bad thing.
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Are you actually interested or not? I definitely understand it's adding more plastic and people should point that out. A good outcome from this would be for Starbucks to feel that people want to reduce their plastic consumption and they should improve and continue this idea. Hopefully other companies would follow suit and maybe even try to one up them. They won't do it if people aren't interested in recycling their drink containers (you know, like no one was before this story came out).

It's easy to just say there's no point in recycling at all because it's not our fault, or it's too late, or we don't want to give up our conveniences. I'm not some recycling zealot and I throw my Diet Mtn Dew cans in the trash. The federal government is unlikely to fix it or enforce similar restrictions whether it's liberal or conservative. It's not ideal to entice companies to reduce their environmental impact with our business and likes and tweets but I find it more realistic than other options.

It's definitely disappointing they didn't get this right. I know you really like talking about that one part so I'll mention it several times in this post. They fucked that up. I enjoy thinking about the entire situation and how this affects the larger picture.
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