Current Events > Florida man jailed for not unlocking his phone.

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/judge-jails-man-for-failing-to-unlock-phones

tl:dr - Man gets pulled over, refuses to let police search his vehicle, drug dog hits car, cops find marijuana. Cops get a warrant to search his phone because of marijuana charges, guy refuses to provide the password in court after judge rules that he must unlock his phone (says he can't remember the password). Judge finds the man in contempt of court which carries up to a 6 month sentence. Judge says he can go free as soon as he remembers the password.

Apparently, you can now be compelled to testify against yourself. What do you think CE?
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Dude would rather be incarcerated than to expose his dank memes he made.
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Is he actually obliged to do so? I know there are laws against actively interfering with a legal, warranted search; but I don't believe there are laws requiring one to actively assist?
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DarkTransient posted...

Is he actually obliged to do so? I know there are laws against actively interfering with a legal, warranted search; but I don't believe there are laws requiring one to actively assist?

Arguably he is interfering. Theres a grey area here that needs to be defined better.
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CommonJoe posted...

DarkTransient posted...

Is he actually obliged to do so? I know there are laws against actively interfering with a legal, warranted search; but I don't believe there are laws requiring one to actively assist?

Arguably he is interfering. Theres a grey area here that needs to be defined better.

I could see a claim for that if he added the password when the police asked to search it. Not so much so if it was already there and he simply refuses to reveal it.
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this has been a problem for a long time in various forms. i personally also think that being forced to reveal your password is akin to testifying against yourself, and the fact that it's becoming precedent to make you sit in jail "until you remember" is utter horseshit

Vicious_Dios posted...

Dude would rather be incarcerated than to expose his dank memes he made.

lol
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treewojima posted...

this has been a problem for a long time in various forms. i personally also think that being forced to reveal your password is akin to testifying against yourself, and the fact that it's becoming precedent to make you sit in jail "until you remember" is utter horseshit

Agreed
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State shouldn't have a case here. Maybe he was drunk or high when he set the password and honestly can't remember it.

There's reasonable doubt.
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I don't see it as any different from refusing to open the door to a search warrant.

Ilishe posted...

State shouldn't have a case here. Maybe he was drunk or high when he set the password and honestly can't remember it.

There's reasonable doubt.

Lmao
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Fine, next.
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SpinKirby posted...

I don't see it as any different from refusing to open the door to a search warrant.

You can forget a password.
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ChainedRedone posted...

SpinKirby posted...

I don't see it as any different from refusing to open the door to a search warrant.

You can forget a password.

You can get locked out of your house.
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You can forget where your keys to your locked door is as well.
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And let's face it - the biggest problem in this case is that people are still being arrested on marijuana charges. IMO, the only marijuana-related charge that should exist is "supplying marijuana to someone under 18 who you are not the parent / legal guardian of". (Though Americans would probably wanna make that 21, whatever, you get the point.)
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SpinKirby posted...

I don't see it as any different from refusing to open the door to a search warrant.

the difference being, the police WILL unlock or break down your door and perform the search anyway. modern encryption makes that very difficult without some sort of backdoor (which many devices have)

that's the double edged sword of good security - if someone from the government comes a'knockin' and they want to see what's on your device, and you either refuse to comply or genuinely can't gain access for some reason, they'll take their frustrations out on you with incarceration or worse

DarkTransient posted...

And let's face it - the biggest problem in this case is that people are still being arrested on marijuana charges. IMO, the only marijuana-related charge that should exist is "supplying marijuana to someone under 18 who you are not the parent / legal guardian of".

Agreed.
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SpinKirby posted...

ChainedRedone posted...

SpinKirby posted...

I don't see it as any different from refusing to open the door to a search warrant.

You can forget a password.

You can get locked out of your house.

You can, and a court won't compel you to open it if you are physically unable to. This isn't difficult to understand.
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ChainedRedone posted...

SpinKirby posted...

ChainedRedone posted...

SpinKirby posted...

I don't see it as any different from refusing to open the door to a search warrant.

You can forget a password.

You can get locked out of your house.

You can, and a court won't compel you to open it if you are physically unable to. This isn't difficult to understand.

Ofc they can't force you

You still get the troll toll though.

The only issue, like above, is that phones are harder to brute force than houses
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Also its bullshit your phone cans be searched because they found weed.

Weed shouldnt even be something police care if they find unless its being sold to kids or some idiot smoked some absurdly potent mix and was clearly not able to properly drive.

Plus its very difficult to prove someone actually does remember and simply is playing dumb.

Imagine if the response to an accusation of murder was I didnt do it and the police just toss you in a cell and every day go So you gonna admit it now?
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pikachupwnage posted...

Imagine if the response to an accusation of murder was I didnt do it and the police just toss you in a cell and every day go So you gonna admit it now?

That's literally how it works.
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What if he remotely wipes his phone?

There are apps that you can install that will wipe the phone if enough failed unlock attempts, via a text message, etc. Hell, I'm sure if he had a rooted android there would be a way to brick the phone after enough failed attempts

StucklnMyPants posted...

http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/judge-jails-man-for-failing-to-unlock-phones

tl:dr - Man gets pulled over, refuses to let police search his vehicle, drug dog hits car, cops find marijuana. Cops get a warrant to search his phone because of marijuana charges, guy refuses to provide the password in court after judge rules that he must unlock his phone (says he can't remember the password). Judge finds the man in contempt of court which carries up to a 6 month sentence. Judge says he can go free as soon as he remembers the password.

Apparently, you can now be compelled to testify against yourself. What do you think CE?

Refusing a warranted search is not "refusing to testify against yourself."

Are you Dawkins or something
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Bacon_Pancakes posted...

What if he remotely wipes his phone?

There are apps that you can install that will wipe the phone if enough failed unlock attempts, via a text message, etc. Hell, I'm sure if he had a rooted android there would be a way to brick the phone after enough failed attempts

Unless you're a major trafficker, you're probably not going to take safety precautions, unless you normally do.

The stupid fuck could have literally enabled the shit that wipes your phone after x unlock attempts and gave it to the police.

If you back up your phone everyday, there's no issue.
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SpinKirby posted...

pikachupwnage posted...

Imagine if the response to an accusation of murder was I didnt do it and the police just toss you in a cell and every day go So you gonna admit it now?

That's literally how it works.

well, no, you ideally have an attorney, court dates, etc. if they keep infringing on that, you can contest based on violation of your sixth amendment rights

this is him being thrown in jail for contempt of court solely because he didn't want to contribute to his own prosecution

Seems like this should be well-tread legal ground by now. What do they do if you won't give up the combination to a safe? Do you get locked up for that or do they just go straight to breaking in?

The difficulty of breaking in shouldn't be a factor
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treewojima posted...

SpinKirby posted...

pikachupwnage posted...

Imagine if the response to an accusation of murder was I didnt do it and the police just toss you in a cell and every day go So you gonna admit it now?

That's literally how it works.

well, no, you ideally have an attorney, court dates, etc. if they keep infringing on that, you can contest based on violation of your sixth amendment rights

this is him being thrown in jail for contempt of court solely because he didn't want to contribute to his own prosecution

I know how it works, I'm just being a dick cuz he made a broadly stated quote. Lol
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When I got arrested they told me to unlock my phone and I told them I forgot my password. Then when I got my phone call I asked for my phone so I can get a number from it lol
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what is the fifth amendment
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TheMikh posted...

what is the fifth amendment

Does not apply to warranted searches

Try again SovCits
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Don't they have people who can crack it?
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treewojima posted...

SpinKirby posted...

I don't see it as any different from refusing to open the door to a search warrant.

the difference being, the police WILL unlock or break down your door and perform the search anyway. modern encryption makes that very difficult without some sort of backdoor (which many devices have)

that's the double edged sword of good security - if someone from the government comes a'knockin' and they want to see what's on your device, and you either refuse to comply or genuinely can't gain access for some reason, they'll take their frustrations out on you with incarceration or worse

This. Its a violation of your rights to force you to aid in any way in a search, or your prosecution.

If you throw the phone in the lake when they bring a warrant sure charge em.

But if you go No not opening my phone do it yourself fuck em. If they cant get in too bad.

Police cant force you to personally lug all your stuff to the police station.

Also think it should be illegal for tech companies to give police back door access. Because you arent just giving police that power assholes.

Liberty and privacy>>>>>>Archaic weed laws and angry cops.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

StucklnMyPants posted...

http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/judge-jails-man-for-failing-to-unlock-phones

tl:dr - Man gets pulled over, refuses to let police search his vehicle, drug dog hits car, cops find marijuana. Cops get a warrant to search his phone because of marijuana charges, guy refuses to provide the password in court after judge rules that he must unlock his phone (says he can't remember the password). Judge finds the man in contempt of court which carries up to a 6 month sentence. Judge says he can go free as soon as he remembers the password.

Apparently, you can now be compelled to testify against yourself. What do you think CE?

Refusing a warranted search is not "refusing to testify against yourself."

Are you Dawkins or something

You have the right to remain silent. Pretty easy to understand.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

StucklnMyPants posted...

http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/judge-jails-man-for-failing-to-unlock-phones

tl:dr - Man gets pulled over, refuses to let police search his vehicle, drug dog hits car, cops find marijuana. Cops get a warrant to search his phone because of marijuana charges, guy refuses to provide the password in court after judge rules that he must unlock his phone (says he can't remember the password). Judge finds the man in contempt of court which carries up to a 6 month sentence. Judge says he can go free as soon as he remembers the password.

Apparently, you can now be compelled to testify against yourself. What do you think CE?

Refusing a warranted search is not "refusing to testify against yourself."

Are you Dawkins or something

You arent refusing the search. You are just refusing to AID the search. Big difference.
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StucklnMyPants posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

StucklnMyPants posted...

http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/judge-jails-man-for-failing-to-unlock-phones

tl:dr - Man gets pulled over, refuses to let police search his vehicle, drug dog hits car, cops find marijuana. Cops get a warrant to search his phone because of marijuana charges, guy refuses to provide the password in court after judge rules that he must unlock his phone (says he can't remember the password). Judge finds the man in contempt of court which carries up to a 6 month sentence. Judge says he can go free as soon as he remembers the password.

Apparently, you can now be compelled to testify against yourself. What do you think CE?

Refusing a warranted search is not "refusing to testify against yourself."

Are you Dawkins or something

You have the right to remain silent. Pretty easy to understand.

Literally not the same thing as refusing or interfering with a search.
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Methinks the obligation should be on the state here. You've got the ability to not voluntarily let the police into your house. It just so happens they also have a warrant to knock down the door. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply here just because of convenience.
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Obviously weed isn't stored on the phone, but you guys are ok with defending someone who produces cp.

"We'd like to search ur phone for cp"

"Lol no"

"Ok, but can we check your computer"

"No"

"Ok"


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SpinKirby posted...

Obviously weed isn't stored on the phone, but you guys are ok with defending someone who produces cp.

"We'd like to search ur phone for cp"

"Lol no"

"Ok, but can we check your computer"

"No"

"Ok"

I don't think anyone is advocating the state accept the refusal and leave it be.
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ThePieReborn posted...

Methinks the obligation should be on the state here. You've got the ability to not voluntarily let the police into your house. It just so happens they also have a warrant to knock down the door. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply here just because of convenience.

that's why the FBI got so butthurt with Apple. it's probably the only time you'll see me rooting for Cupertino

ThePieReborn posted...

SpinKirby posted...

Obviously weed isn't stored on the phone, but you guys are ok with defending someone who produces cp.

"We'd like to search ur phone for cp"

"Lol no"

"Ok, but can we check your computer"

"No"

"Ok"

I don't think anyone is advocating the state accept the refusal and leave it be.

Not according to above.

My only issue is that this is over weed, which i feel like it should be legal, but that's not the argument here.
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SpinKirby posted...

Obviously weed isn't stored on the phone, but you guys are ok with defending someone who produces cp.

"We'd like to search ur phone for cp"

"Lol no"

"Ok, but can we check your computer"

"No"

"Ok"

I don't think anyone is against the police seizing your computer's/potential data, but you shouldn't have to help them find your stash. Like if busted into your house to search for drugs. If they couldn't find them (access data), you're not gonna "actually, it's over here"

If it's stored by lock, you don't have to admit it's in there. If you want to give the police the right to break in there, okay fine. If they can't, too bad.
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treewojima posted...

ThePieReborn posted...

Methinks the obligation should be on the state here. You've got the ability to not voluntarily let the police into your house. It just so happens they also have a warrant to knock down the door. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply here just because of convenience.

that's why the FBI got so butthurt with Apple. it's probably the only time you'll see me rooting for Cupertino

That's where I get into a grey area. I think there's a distinction (Fifth Amendment-wise, at least) between acquiring (through legal force) the toolkit to get into a phone and forcing a suspected person to aid in the investigation against him/herself.
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ThePieReborn posted...

SpinKirby posted...

Obviously weed isn't stored on the phone, but you guys are ok with defending someone who produces cp.

"We'd like to search ur phone for cp"

"Lol no"

"Ok, but can we check your computer"

"No"

"Ok"

I don't think anyone is advocating the state accept the refusal and leave it be.

This. But a mere accusation and refusal is not enough. You need a warrant and probable cause to even get that warrant. Nobody likes their stuff being rummaged through even if they have nothing to hide. Cops cant just go door to door and go Give me your computer to make sure you got no child porn you pedophile freak and then use your offended rejection as a suspicious reason to get a warrant.
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I side with the victim (the criminal). I typically side with law enforcement, but this is not okay. I think hes cool for standing up for himself and for the rights of people across the country.

First of all, marijuana should never be a crime in ANY state, unless youre caught smoking while you drive (these are the rules in legal states and they will eventually be the federal laws).

Articles about crimes committed in Florida seem very popular and common, and to think the police and court system ignored serious crime to harass this man for marijuana is disturbing. The federal government simply cannot legalize this fast enough (and remove it from all drug testing panels).

The cops in Baton Rouge used to tell my brothers friends, yeah, we do pick on highschool and college kids for marijuana because it puts money into the city and we know you will just take the ticket and leave without attacking us.

THOSE are the kinds of cops who need to be weeded out. Lazy bums who just wanted to make it look like they were working. Meanwhile, theres a home invasion in every major neighborhood...
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pikachupwnage posted...

ThePieReborn posted...

SpinKirby posted...

Obviously weed isn't stored on the phone, but you guys are ok with defending someone who produces cp.

"We'd like to search ur phone for cp"

"Lol no"

"Ok, but can we check your computer"

"No"

"Ok"

I don't think anyone is advocating the state accept the refusal and leave it be.

This. But a mere accusation and refusal is not enough. You need a warrant and probable cause to even get that warrant. Nobody likes their stuff being rummaged through even if they have nothing to hide. Cops cant just go door to door and go Give me your computer to make sure you got no child porn you pedophile freak and then use your offended rejection as a suspicious reason to get a warrant.

Perhaps you shouldnt have left the window blinds open when you were shooting the video.

Then they wouldn't have probable cause or any reason to obtain a warrant.
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southcoast09 posted...

THOSE are the kinds of cops who need to be weeded out. Lazy bums who just wanted to make it look like they were working. Meanwhile, theres a home invasion in every major neighborhood...

In my city if you're driving around all day you'll maybe see two or three patrol cars throughout the day.

Last week of the month? Speed traps up the wazoo. They're really stupid because they cycle through the same few roads/intersections.

Gotta make those quotas to afford all those cheeseburgers.

SpinKirby posted...

pikachupwnage posted...

ThePieReborn posted...

SpinKirby posted...

Obviously weed isn't stored on the phone, but you guys are ok with defending someone who produces cp.

"We'd like to search ur phone for cp"

"Lol no"

"Ok, but can we check your computer"

"No"

"Ok"

I don't think anyone is advocating the state accept the refusal and leave it be.

This. But a mere accusation and refusal is not enough. You need a warrant and probable cause to even get that warrant. Nobody likes their stuff being rummaged through even if they have nothing to hide. Cops cant just go door to door and go Give me your computer to make sure you got no child porn you pedophile freak and then use your offended rejection as a suspicious reason to get a warrant.

Perhaps you shouldnt have left the window blinds open when you were shooting the video.

Then they wouldn't have probable cause or any reason to obtain a warrant.

psh, any serious film maker knows not to rely on natural light while indoors

This dude have a lawyer? Jeez
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Uh, fair. They got a warrant for his phone.
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Also if I were him I would brick my phone via putting the wrong password in a million times
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