Current Events > Ace Attorney is very progressive when it comes to gender issues.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mean, look at this witness.

You literally get to cross-examine an attack helicopter.


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The Sarge is one of my favorite characters in that case.
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I haven't finished the case yet. I'm just past the part where you first see who she actually is. So I probably have a lot to see yet...

So far, I'm finding the case pretty interesting. Phoenix essentially being the prosecutor was a very unexpected twist, and I think they've executed it very well so far. Though I'm not a huge fan of Apollo; it would've been great to play Athena in such a situation. Overall, I'm very impressed with Spirit of Justice so far, although in all honesty I must say I liked Dual Destinies more (but then, I haven't finished SoJ yet, so we'll see) - and my favorite case of all isn't from either of those, but Bridge To The Turnabout from Trials & Tribulations.
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People need to stop judging things by such narrow minded cultural assumptions.
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Case 3 of SoJ is pretty good as I remember, but my favorites are from T&T and Gyakuten Kenji 2.
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Dual Destinies Case 4/5 was actually one of my favorites of all time, and SoJ last case was also terrific.

I forget which case Sarge was in but the reveal of Sarge was pretty cool.

Also can't ever forget cross examining the parrot or the clown or the orca. What do you mean one of these is not like the other?
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What are you playing on, why's it look like that
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Yeah, I loved Sarge and I hope she pops up again.

This is just a really good little thing in general, since youre of course led to believe it's a little boy when it's actually a girl

Imo as a whole the case is a total mess though. All of Turnabout Revolution I mean
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Prosecutor edgeworth 2 probably is the best of the bunch. The whole game is basically one big case and the finally is easily the most amazing out of all the games

Nall posted...

SoJ Case 5 is one of the greatest in the Series easily. Apollo was fantastic in the case.

It doesn't hold a candle to 2-4 3-5 or GK2-5 tbh
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ArmieBuff posted...

Affirmitive

Oh yeah I remember this account lol
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Nall posted...

SoJ Case 5 is one of the greatest in the Series easily. Apollo was fantastic in the case.

Yeah, I love what they've done with Apollo over the last two games. He's become a truly great lawyer(and man) in his own right. I hope they give Athena a similar arc. Or at least let her get through a case without needing to be hand-holded.

6-5 would have been a lot better had they not dressed the culprit like a Disney villain just to make it on the nose.
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The case would be better if the sadmadhis weren't such awful people
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LordFarquad1312 posted...

6-5 would have been a lot better had they not dressed the culprit like a Disney villain just to make it on the nose.

Yeah, seriously. 6-5 would've been one of the best case of the series... if Gar'an wasn't the actual murderer and was instead just someone who manipulated her way into political power and was tricked by someone else, like datz arebal or just a new character. Making her the actual murderer wasn't just really cliche, it was also extremely contrived since she had all the decks stacked for her, why did she intentionally give them so many chances just to fuck herself over? Not to mention, she didn't even need to personally do anything, she could've just sent a guard the way she sent a guard to attack Amara. It would've been a lot cooler if someone with such an obviously evil design really wasn't the main murderer.
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6-5 had some brilliant subtleties though if you were paying attention

It's mostly about Inga:

Everything he plotted in the background was all to lead towards Rayfa being the unanimous leader of Khurain. Despite already knowing Rayfa's origins and the controversy that got Dhurke wrongfully booted off, he still loved Rayfa like his real daughter, as evidenced by his vault that was heavily guarded not having much outside a letter from Rayfa when she was little telling him how much she loves him as well as a paper that detailed a plan for dethroning Garan. And they also reveal later in the case that Inga's plans for a coup wouldn't really have benefited him whatsoever because a male without the royal blood couldn't lead anyways. You could also theorize that him killing Dhurke was out of jealousy or perhaps a reluctance to let Rayfa figure out that he's her real dad.

The thing is, they really gloss over it and let the readers figure out for themselves. It's a lot better to take in the case thinking Inga's a disney villain anyways.
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Well if we're criticising the case I think the way Dhurke is handled is its biggest fatal flaw

His sins are way too easily forgiven by the main cast. He obsessed over his snail-paced "peaceful revolution" so long that he literally only bothered to visit Apollo AFTER HE WAS DEAD, and that whole trip itself was only done to further Dhurke's goals in regards to the artifact, Apollo became his glorified pawn.

One of the big moments facilitating Apollo accepting Dhurke again is Dhurke saving him from the rising waters in the old ruins. However, Dhurke is already the reason that Apollo was in that situation in the first place, and Dhurke apparently never even bothered to teach Apollo how to swim while he was always playing by water rapids with Nahyuta. This pseudo-heroism and "self-endangerment" that's likely supposed to endear Dhurke to the player flops harder we learn that Dhurke was literally already dead; the person in real danger was Maya.

Dhurke then willfully misleads Apollo by not making it clear that Dhurke is being channeled, and puts his distrusting wife's secrets ahead of the things Apollo needs to understand in order for his own son not to be excuted, as well as Phoenix. It all feels like he just values his adopted son less than the rest of his family, and for Apollo to lap that up in the game is an abominable message.

Somehow, those above actions are supposed to make up for Dhurke's older sins of lying to Apollo, dumping him in America in some orphanage, and never making any attempts to even contact him by proxy or writing, despite him having a legitunderground army of paratroopers, spies, and Japanifornian contacts. Come on.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was somehow brought up how Dhurke had done some extremely questionable things in any capacity, but instead the main cast end up revering him like a saint of justice. A big reason Apollo stays in Khura'in is to carry on the law office like Dhurke wanted. And the subplot of the relationship between Rayfa and Inga and the extent that Inga loved her is completely dropped so that Rayfa can instead sing Dhurke's praise. That in particular left a bad taste in my mouth, when I noticed that it was like I could see the strings of the puppets.

Also Nahyuta is just a dick, he's forced to play baddie in Case 5 but that doesn't change the fact that he and Rayfa were pretty much gleeful over the thought of you and Maya and being hanged. The most annoying was in Case 4 where of course he's as usual a huge dick and tries to physically hurt you for protecting someone's life etc, at least Blackquill shuts him down which is great, but at the end the game acts like you should be happy you "earned his respect" or something. No, he's just a dick, why would you even want his respect? The game made a Franziska and acted like he's a Shi-Long.
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Personally I didn't think they revered Dhurke, per se, though it's been a long time since I read the case so maybe on a 2nd watch it'd be a bit more obvious. At the very least, the fact that Dhurke was a revolutionary wasn't ever really put on a pedestal more than his capabilities as a lawyer that Apollo responds to by the end of the case. And yeah I guess it pisses me off that Inga is pretty brushed aside to focus on Dhurke being the father.

I think they leave it pretty open for the viewers to decide what they should think about Dhurke as a whole. It's not like they ever portrayed that his revolution was effective, which is definitely wasn't. And Phoenix was actually very impartial throughout that entire case. He was merely a facilitator if anything and the case was very clearly Apollo's case more than anything else. Considering we're always led to put ourselves in Phoenix's position, Phoenix not having much of an emotional investment in the case meant we shouldn't put ourselves in a position to feel biased towards Dhurke's interwoven connection between Apollo and Nayuta either. That's how I felt about it anyways

Totally agreed on Nahyuta being a dick though. I mean the guy fucking almost got Phoenix and Maya killed how many times?
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Bruh his ghost literally smiles and waves at the camera at the end. Rayfa explicitly says she wished she could've met him because he seems like he was such a great guy, and btw completely forgets about her loving adopted father whose murder is being tried. Apollo gets emotionally messed up when Dhurke lies about having an illness and vows to protect his dad.
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Doe posted...

Bruh his ghost literally smiles and waves at the camera at the end. Rayfa explicitly says she wished she could've met him because he seems like he was such a great guy, and btw completely forgets about her loving adopted father whose murder is being tried. Apollo gets emotionally messed up when Dhurke lies about having an illness and vows to protect his dad.

Well yeah like I said. I'm only looking at it from Phoenix's pov. He has a far more detached perspective of the case than the others. Dhurke is flawed, but he's also a damn sight better than the alternative, which were mostly consisting of psychopaths
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It's weird to say to only look at it from Phoenix's perspective when you play in first person as Apollo in case 5 and fight Phoenix in court. Something you've done before in AJ:AA where Phoenix is an enigmatic man who hides things even when you play as him. You even get the chance to tell Dhurke that no, he can't just appear and go on an adventure with you but as expected of a visual novel Trucy will railroad you back on path if you try. I mean the game is only called PW instead of AJ for marketing reasons iirc according to the localization team (it's just Gyakuten Saiban 6 in Japan).

In any case he's the most important character in the case and is made out to be flawed but trying to make it up to Apollo sort of but instead he's a complete fuck to him. He fucked up Apollo's life, he abandoned him, he didn't so much as send a letter. Then he comes back into Apollo's life for the sole reason of handing him the hot mess that is Khurain and making him fix it, lying about everything throughout. And for this, Dhurke is considered a hero.

I don't feel that Phoenix was impartial so much as relatively unimportant to the plot after day 2.
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AvlButtslam posted...

What are you playing on, why's it look like that

It's either the Android or iOS version.

bump
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Bump, so I can come back and read everything once I've completed the game.

I'm up to the 2nd day's trial now, I stopped playing around when Rayfa attempted to do the Divination Seance again, after failing the first time. (Spoilers for AA1, AA3 and AA6 in here) Interesting twist that Ga'ran is the prosecutor, even after it set us up to expect Nahyuta. With that being said, hopefully it doesn't turn out she's the killer (of course she at least knows a lot, and probably is deeply involved in the coverup); if she is, that'd be the third time now they've done "the prosecutor is the killer", and they also did this the only other time an entirely new prosecutor (not just a returning one from an older game) showed up for the final case. Though at this point, I'm primarily suspecting Nayna, with my second guess being "it really was Dhurke after all".
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I can't wait to see your thoughts on everything posted once you finish. Personally I feel very in the minority about my gripes I'd like to see what you think.
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Saw topic title

Expected attack helicopter joke

Got exactly that

Yawned

Clicked the topiclist button

Oh crap, I didn't realize you weren't done with the game. I deleted my post since it contained spoilers. Knock yourself out on the final case!
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Armie best new character
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Tag for when you're done.

That case is fucking phenomenal and has my second favorite twist in the whole series.
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Completed that case now. I still need to play Turnabout Time Traveller so no spoilers for that one please. (Unfortunately, the Asinine Attorney cases aren't available on the Android version.)

So, turns out Garan was indeed the killer. As much as things weren't pointing that way at the time, I guess it's to be expected, they tried too hard to set her up as a villian. Nonetheless, the other twists in the case, as well as figuring out exactly how that worked (and getting around her attempt to prevent you accusing her) was still pretty impressive.

So - while I do still have the DLC case to go - at this point, I'd say that while SoJ was great, I'd still put it second to Dual Destinies for best game overall (and I'd still say Bridge To The Turnabout from T&T is the best individual case of all).

And I was quite happy when the ending implied we might not see Apollo as a major character in the next game. I can't say I'm a huge fan of him.
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Interesting. Not many people consider AA5 to be their favorite.
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Attack helicopters have rights too.
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bump
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xD
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DarkTransient posted...

Completed that case now. I still need to play Turnabout Time Traveller so no spoilers for that one please. (Unfortunately, the Asinine Attorney cases aren't available on the Android version.)

So, turns out Garan was indeed the killer. As much as things weren't pointing that way at the time, I guess it's to be expected, they tried too hard to set her up as a villian. Nonetheless, the other twists in the case, as well as figuring out exactly how that worked (and getting around her attempt to prevent you accusing her) was still pretty impressive.

So - while I do still have the DLC case to go - at this point, I'd say that while SoJ was great, I'd still put it second to Dual Destinies for best game overall (and I'd still say Bridge To The Turnabout from T&T is the best individual case of all).

And I was quite happy when the ending implied we might not see Apollo as a major character in the next game. I can't say I'm a huge fan of him.

The "Dhurke was dead the whole time" twist was amazing and was so well-done. I didn't see it coming and I honestly cried a bit during the reveal.

Only twist that I like more in the series is in AAI2.
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I'd like to kindly remind you guys that the game in question we are talking about is a CAPCOM game. Please let's give the proper respect to the best video game company in the world.

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Veggeta X posted...

I'd like to kindly remind you guys that the game in question we are talking about is a CAPCOM game. Please let's give the proper respect to the best video game company in the world.

Explain Marvel v Capcom Infinite
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Doe posted...

Explain Marvel v Capcom Infinite

Disney. Next.
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Explain higher-ups meddling in Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney
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Doe posted...

Explain Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney

FTFY
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I have not played that far into Phoenix Wright. Are you implying there's a huge deal breaking flaw with the series?
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Veggeta X posted...

I'd like to kindly remind you guys that the game in question we are talking about is a CAPCOM game. Please let's give the proper respect to the best video game company in the world.

lol
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DarkTransient posted...

Doe posted...

Explain Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney

FTFY

Too true lol
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Veggeta X posted...

I have not played that far into Phoenix Wright. Are you implying there's a huge deal breaking flaw with the series?

I'm exaggerating a bit.

Apollo Justice isn't actually a bad game. It's one of those cases of "it's still fairly good, but it's nothing compared to the rest of the series" games. Apollo himself isn't a very interesting character, not even with the further development in DD and SoJ (although this does improve him a bit), and neither is his assistant, which is the game's biggest flaw - the cases themself and overall storyline are fairly decent.
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