Current Events > Sometimes I don't get agnostics

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, it's possible anything can exist, but I'm still saying unicorns don't exist and ghosts aren't real until there's hard evidence. Why do we have to be wishy washy about gods? You either believe right now or you don't.
---

I don't know what I fall under for your definitions. but I believe a god is real. but I also don't follow any religion.

Different people have different ideas about what "god" could be. Most agnostics I know are perfectly fine dismissing organized religion. That doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of a creator or some type of higher power.

(a)gnosticism has to do with knowledge, while (a)theism has to do with belief.
---

thrashmetal14 posted...

Different people have different ideas about what "god" could be. Most agnostics I know are perfectly fine dismissing organized religion. That doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of a creator or some type of higher power.

Yeah, this pretty much. My concept of what a deity would be is something beyond comprehension, with an existence in relation to us comparable to our existence in relation to individual cells, bacteria and microbes that live in/on us.
---

hockeybub89 posted...

Yeah, it's possible anything can exist, but I'm still saying unicorns don't exist and ghosts aren't real until there's hard evidence. Why do we have to be wishy washy about gods? You either believe right now or you don't.

They are real. And there is plenty of hard evidence. You're just choosing to ignore it
---

Most agnostics I know basically just say that whatever is happening out there is so far above our ability to understand and conceptualize that it's pointless to think about it.
---

thrashmetal14 posted...

Different people have different ideas about what "god" could be. Most agnostics I know are perfectly fine dismissing organized religion. That doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of a creator or some type of higher power.

This I consider myself agnostic solely because I'm fervently against organized religion. I recognize that something or something's are at work though. Even if that something is just a natural phenomenon.
---

Zikten posted...

I don't know what I fall under for your definitions. but I believe a god is real. but I also don't follow any religion.

thrashmetal14 posted...

Different people have different ideas about what "god" could be. Most agnostics I know are perfectly fine dismissing organized religion. That doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of a creator or some type of higher power.

"Agnostic" doesn't mean "not down with organized religion."
But considering how self-described "agnostics" already mangled the word to justify "lol iunno" as a position, I guess I can't be surprised people would butcher it even further.
---

glitteringfairy posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Yeah, it's possible anything can exist, but I'm still saying unicorns don't exist and ghosts aren't real until there's hard evidence. Why do we have to be wishy washy about gods? You either believe right now or you don't.

They are real. And there is plenty of hard evidence. You're just choosing to ignore it

Lmfao! Please, enlighten us with this hard evidence that youre privy to, @glitteringfairy
---

Zeeak4444 posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

Different people have different ideas about what "god" could be. Most agnostics I know are perfectly fine dismissing organized religion. That doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of a creator or some type of higher power.

This I consider myself agnostic solely because I'm fervently against organized religion. I recognize that something or something's are at work though. Even if that something is just a natural phenomenon.

So you believe in a higher power of some sort. That means you are not agnostic. You're just against mainstream religion.
---

^ nah, you can be an agnostic theist.
---

hockeybub89 posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

Different people have different ideas about what "god" could be. Most agnostics I know are perfectly fine dismissing organized religion. That doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of a creator or some type of higher power.

This I consider myself agnostic solely because I'm fervently against organized religion. I recognize that something or something's are at work though. Even if that something is just a natural phenomenon.

So you believe in a higher power of some sort. That means you are not agnostic. You're just against mainstream religion.

What do you call someone who is against mainstream religion? Athiest, Theist? No, Agnostic.
---

EpicMickeyDrew posted...

What do you call someone who is against mainstream religion? Athiest, Theist? No, Agnostic.

Theist doesn't mean "religious." Theist means "believes in a god of some kind."

What do you think atheist means? It means - get this - "not a theist."
---

boxington posted...

^ nah, you can be an agnostic theist.

How? Theism is literally claiming knowledge of a god power. No one said it had to be a specific god.

So you either believe there is a god or you believe nothing, but are leaning towards theism.
---

EpicMickeyDrew posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

Different people have different ideas about what "god" could be. Most agnostics I know are perfectly fine dismissing organized religion. That doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of a creator or some type of higher power.

This I consider myself agnostic solely because I'm fervently against organized religion. I recognize that something or something's are at work though. Even if that something is just a natural phenomenon.

So you believe in a higher power of some sort. That means you are not agnostic. You're just against mainstream religion.

What do you call someone who is against mainstream religion? Athiest, Theist? No, Agnostic.

I'd call them against religion. I would need to know their stance on higher powers to know whether or not they are theist.
---

hockeybub89 posted...

How? Theism is literally claiming knowledge of a god power. No one said it had to be a specific god.

So you either believe there is a god or you believe nothing, but are leaning towards theism.

atheist means you don't believe in a god (or gods)
theist means you do believe in a god (or gods)
an agnostic doesn't claim to have knowledge on whether god exists or doesn't
a gnostic does claim to have knowledge on whether god exists or not

so you have agnostic atheists, agnostic theists, gnostic theists, and gnostic atheists
---

an agnostic theist can believe in a god (or gods), also feel that whether it/they exist can't be known.

or they can believe in a god (or gods), but feel that the nature/capability/desires/etc. are unknowable.
---

prince_leo posted...

atheist means you don't believe in a god (or gods)
theist means you do believe in a god (or gods)
an agnostic doesn't claim to have knowledge on whether god exists or doesn't
a gnostic does claim to have knowledge on whether god exists or not

so you have agnostic atheists, agnostic theists, gnostic theists, and gnostic atheists

Thank fuck someone in this topic actually KNOWS what words mean.

I was starting to lose my mind.
---

boxington posted...

^ nah, you can be an agnostic theist.

that's what I always thought I am called. a person who has no loyalty to any created religion. but thinks some sort of god exists

hockeybub89 posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

Different people have different ideas about what "god" could be. Most agnostics I know are perfectly fine dismissing organized religion. That doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of a creator or some type of higher power.

This I consider myself agnostic solely because I'm fervently against organized religion. I recognize that something or something's are at work though. Even if that something is just a natural phenomenon.

So you believe in a higher power of some sort. That means you are not agnostic. You're just against mainstream religion.

That's not true. You're saying it's a higher power as if it's a god. It could be a pantheon of gods. It could just be the Big Bang. It could be anything outside our comprehension. Agnostic is a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

What you're describing is like a Hollywood atheist.
---

LinksLiege posted...

Theist doesn't mean "religious." Theist means "believes in a god of some kind."

What do you think atheist means? It means - get this - "not a theist."

Yes? What's your point? What does agnostic mean.
---

Zeeak4444 posted...

Agnostic is a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

You somehow went from "knowledge" to "faith" without a second thought.
That's a problem.
---

EpicMickeyDrew posted...

Yes? What's your point? What does agnostic mean.

My point is that "agnostic" doesn't mean "I don't like religion," which is literally what you just said.
---

Definition of agnostic

1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

2 : a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something. political agnostics

Webster's Dictionary definition.
---

Zeeak4444 posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

thrashmetal14 posted...

Different people have different ideas about what "god" could be. Most agnostics I know are perfectly fine dismissing organized religion. That doesn't really have anything to do with the concept of a creator or some type of higher power.

This I consider myself agnostic solely because I'm fervently against organized religion. I recognize that something or something's are at work though. Even if that something is just a natural phenomenon.

So you believe in a higher power of some sort. That means you are not agnostic. You're just against mainstream religion.

That's not true. You're saying it's a higher power as if it's a god. It could be a pantheon of gods. It could just be the Big Bang. It could be anything outside our comprehension. Agnostic is a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

What you're describing is like a Hollywood atheist.

How am I saying that at all? I vaguely said power to be all-inclusive.

Do you or do you not, at this very moment, believe in the existence of some sort of god/gods/force/whatever?

Imagine how infuriating dealing with other people would be if we were "agnostic" on all things. "I think John filed that report, but he also might not have. If I didn't watch John the entire time, do I know the whole story? Can we even be sure that free will exists? What if this is all a simulation and the reports are filing us? I don't think so, but could we ever really know for sure? What were you asking?"

Being open-minded and lacking opinions are not the same thing.
---

LinksLiege posted...

Zeeak4444 posted...

Agnostic is a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

You somehow went from "knowledge" to "faith" without a second thought.
That's a problem.

Elaborate considering neither is required for the term.
---

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Definition of agnostic

1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

2 : a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something. political agnostics

Webster's Dictionary definition.

this site is probably the best place to look up philosophical terms and concepts

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/#DefiAgno
---

Talking about where the word comes from and what it means TODAY is a semantics argument and is pointless.

The F word for someone who is homosexual has roots in something else entirely, but that doesn't negate what the word means NOW.
---

boxington posted...

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Definition of agnostic

1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

2 : a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something. political agnostics

Webster's Dictionary definition.

this site is probably the best place to look up philosophical terms and concepts

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/#DefiAgno

Agnosticism as a philosophy comes off like "radical centrism". It implies that there are two equal sides and that the truth is unknowable or somewhere in the middle. It seems a little off-base to equate believing without evidence and not believing without evidence as equally wrong sides. It makes agnosticism come off as atheists that are embarassed by snarky "angstheists" and want to distance themselves by using more palatable term.

Not believing in things until there is evidence is like the default logical stance, but we start talking about gods and suddenly we need to start muddying the waters? That isn't humble or reasonable. It's meaningless.
---

Here is how I look at religion and you can tell me if I'm wrong or not. I choose to look at religion the same way I look at great fiction(not saying the two are the same or completely different). As a teaching tool rather than a higher power. Example: The old testiment was used to strike fear into the hearts of man, and when other things took over that responsibility, they created the new testiment, which gave hope to those that were lacking it. Lord of the Rings taught us to trust in our friends and band together through hard times for example.

Whether that is considered agnostic, or athiest, or whatever, its just how I choose to value religion. I don't know if there is a higher power, but I choose to keep my options open, just know I will not be attending church every sunday. You'd be pressed to see me in church a day out of the year.