Current Events > Why are there still Nazis and Communists in 2018?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Were these groups just biding their time? Did the internet make them more visible? Is it just a recent trend kickstarted by the Great Recession and the recent migrant crisis?

It seems like more and more, these two extremist far right or far left ideologies are experiencing a resurgence, much to the detriment of the western emphasis on individual freedom and peace.

silentwing26x posted...

Were these groups just biding their time? Did the internet make them more visible? Is it just a recent trend kickstarted by the Great Recession and the recent migrant crisis?

It seems like more and more, these two extremist far right or far left ideologies are experiencing a resurgence, much to the detriment of the western emphasis on individual freedom and peace.

Ding, ding, ding
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LIsJustice posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Were these groups just biding their time? Did the internet make them more visible? Is it just a recent trend kickstarted by the Great Recession and the recent migrant crisis?

It seems like more and more, these two extremist far right or far left ideologies are experiencing a resurgence, much to the detriment of the western emphasis on individual freedom and peace.

Ding, ding, ding

What can be done to eliminate or at least substantially reduce both ideologies once and for all?

Because of trump and the alt right
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Not their fault they grew up that way.

Well, Nazis don't have the same reputation in Asia, so I don't expect (the image and symbols, at least) to be going away anytime soon.

Theyre just cosplaying
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Regarding Nazis, for the same reason there are flat earthers. There will always be nut jobs.

As for commies, a lot of people want resources that they didnt earn. And school doesnt teach people how horrible communism is.
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From the beginning of time until the end of time, Nazis and Communists will be the only constant.
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Why can't we send nazis and commies to Mars
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Because of trump

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Ivynn posted...

Why can't we send nazis and commies to Mars

that seems like a colossal waste of money. we should just ship them off to two separate deserted islands so they can practice their bullshit in peace (and eventually die off because lol them)

tennisdude818 posted...

Regarding Nazis, for the same reason there are flat earthers. There will always be nut jobs.

As for commies, a lot of people want resources that they didnt earn. And school doesnt teach people how horrible communism is.

I'd include commies in the list of nutjobs a la Nazis and flat earthers

Reis posted...

Ivynn posted...

Why can't we send nazis and commies to Mars

that seems like a colossal waste of money. we should just ship them off to two separate deserted islands so they can practice their bullshit in peace (and eventually die off because lol them)

If there was an initiative to make this happen, I'd donate substantial capital to help the effort.

silentwing26x posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

Regarding Nazis, for the same reason there are flat earthers. There will always be nut jobs.

As for commies, a lot of people want resources that they didnt earn. And school doesnt teach people how horrible communism is.

I'd include commies in the list of nutjobs a la Nazis and flat earthers

I agree.
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Nazis: let's destroy all these inferior races
Communists: let's reallocate wealth that has been stolen from the workers and given to the hoarding rich to help raise the quality of life of all peoples
People: these two are just as bad
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gunplagirl posted...

Nazis: let's destroy all these inferior races
Communists: let's reallocate wealth that has been stolen from the workers and given to the hoarding rich to help raise the quality of life of all peoples
People: these two are just as bad

Nazi beliefs around Aryan superiority and Commie beliefs around supposed exploitation in the form of profit both manifested in violent and catastrophic armed conflicts that killed tens of millions of people and bankrupted/starved countless millions more. Both worldviews are intellectually bankrupt and immoral and necessarily lead to violence.

RoadsterUFO posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Nazis: let's destroy all these inferior races
Communists: let's reallocate wealth that has been stolen from the workers and given to the hoarding rich to help raise the quality of life of all peoples
People: these two are just as bad

Communists are the flat earthers of economics that pretend to have the moral high ground despite their ideology having killed more than Nazism ever did.

Stalinism, not communism, has killed more than Nazism.
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PiOverlord posted...

RoadsterUFO posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Nazis: let's destroy all these inferior races
Communists: let's reallocate wealth that has been stolen from the workers and given to the hoarding rich to help raise the quality of life of all peoples
People: these two are just as bad

Communists are the flat earthers of economics that pretend to have the moral high ground despite their ideology having killed more than Nazism ever did.

Stalinism, not communism, has killed more than Nazism.

The distinction of Stalinism vs communism is merely a post hoc invention offered by the communists who want to explain away the atrocities committed by the people who were enacting Marxist ideas at a national scale.

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?
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LIsJustice posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Were these groups just biding their time? Did the internet make them more visible? Is it just a recent trend kickstarted by the Great Recession and the recent migrant crisis?

It seems like more and more, these two extremist far right or far left ideologies are experiencing a resurgence, much to the detriment of the western emphasis on individual freedom and peace.

Ding, ding, ding

Not only did the internet make them more visible, it has given them a chance to connect. Unite the Right had the largest gathering of white supremacists in years.
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ledbowman posted...

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?

It's really weird how there's literal communists on CE and we give them a free pass to peddle their horrific and violent horse shit.

_Near_ posted...

LIsJustice posted...

silentwing26x posted...

Were these groups just biding their time? Did the internet make them more visible? Is it just a recent trend kickstarted by the Great Recession and the recent migrant crisis?

It seems like more and more, these two extremist far right or far left ideologies are experiencing a resurgence, much to the detriment of the western emphasis on individual freedom and peace.

Ding, ding, ding

Not only did the internet make them more visible, it has given them a chance to connect. Unite the Right had the largest gathering of white supremacists in years.

We need the moderate voices to unite and be more vocal in repudiating both of the extremes.

silentwing26x posted...

ledbowman posted...

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?

It's really weird how there's literal communists on CE and we give them a free pass to peddle their horrific and violent horse shit.

Communism is the only path to equality, true freedom, and fulfilling lives for all.
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silentwing26x posted...

ledbowman posted...

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?

It's really weird how there's literal communists on CE and we give them a free pass to peddle their horrific and violent horse shit.

Pace yourself or you'll tucker out.
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PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

ledbowman posted...

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?

It's really weird how there's literal communists on CE and we give them a free pass to peddle their horrific and violent horse shit.

Communism is the only path to equality, true freedom, and fulfilling lives for all.

No, western secularism is the only path to those things. IE the culture we've enjoyed and promoted and encouraged in western culture for the last 150 years. IE the pursuit of life, liberty, and justice. The freedom to do business, to learn what you want, to be who you want, and the protection of individual liberties and private property.

RoadsterUFO posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Nazis: let's destroy all these inferior races
Communists: let's reallocate wealth that has been stolen from the workers and given to the hoarding rich to help raise the quality of life of all peoples
People: these two are just as bad

Communists are the flat earthers of economics that pretend to have the moral high ground despite their ideology having killed more than Nazism ever did.

It's funny you mention that "communism killed more" thing while ignoring how capitalist intervention destroyed crops and the like which worsened starvation rates. Or how you ignore that there's millions who get sick and die every year from lack of medical treatment, food, and clean water despite having the resources to allocate such ththings for all humans in the world yet what prevents us from doing so is lack of financial incentive... And despite that lack of interest in saving lives, nobody attributes those preventable deaths to capitalism.

Oh but it's okay those people died, they dont deserve the money that elon musk totally deserved by underpaying his employees for years
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ledbowman posted...

silentwing26x posted...

ledbowman posted...

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?

It's really weird how there's literal communists on CE and we give them a free pass to peddle their horrific and violent horse shit.

Pace yourself or you'll tucker out.

Nah man, you don't understand what is at stake if either of the extremes gets power. It's going to be civil war. I'd prefer we acknowledge the nightmare now while there's still time to let reason and evidence dictate the conversation.

national socialists and international socialists still exist in 2018 because society still pushes the lie that socialism works
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At the risk of oversimplifying matters:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

But a look at five decades worth of government wage data suggests that the better question might be, why should now be any different? For most U.S. workers, real wages that is, after inflation is taken into account have been flat or even falling for decades, regardless of whether the economy has been adding or subtracting jobs.

Cash money isnt the only way workers are compensated, of course health insurance, retirement-account contributions, education and transit subsidies and other benefits all can be part of the package. But wages and salaries are the biggest (about 70%, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics) and most visible component of employee compensation.

According to the BLS, the average hourly wage for non-management private-sector workers last month was $20.67, unchanged from August and 2.3% above the average wage a year earlier. Thats not much, especially when compared with the pre-Great Recession years of 2006 and 2007, when the average hourly wage often increased by around 4% year-over-year. (During the high-inflation years of the 1970s and early 1980s, average wages commonly jumped 8%, 9% or even more year-over-year.)

But after adjusting for inflation, todays average hourly wage has just about the same purchasing power as it did in 1979, following a long slide in the 1980s and early 1990s and bumpy, inconsistent growth since then. In fact, in real terms the average wage peaked more than 40 years ago: The $4.03-an-hour rate recorded in January 1973 has the same purchasing power as $22.41 would today.

A similar measure, usual weekly earnings of employed, full-time, wage and salary workers, tells much the same story, albeit over a shorter time period. In seasonally adjusted current dollars, median usual weekly earnings rose from $232 in the first quarter 0f 1979 (when the series began) to $782 in the second quarter of this year (the most recent data available). But in real terms, the median has barely budged over that period.

Mainstream politicians have offered very little in terms of a solution to this problem.
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silentwing26x posted...

PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

ledbowman posted...

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?

It's really weird how there's literal communists on CE and we give them a free pass to peddle their horrific and violent horse shit.

Communism is the only path to equality, true freedom, and fulfilling lives for all.

No, western secularism is the only path to those things. IE the culture we've enjoyed and promoted and encouraged in western culture for the last 150 years. IE the pursuit of life, liberty, and justice. The freedom to do business, to learn what you want, to be who you want, and the protection of individual liberties and private property.

Capitalism has fulfilled it's purpose, but is now stifling progress. We don't get to do any of those things as big fat cows on top decide our lives for us. Our passions are seen as childish ambitions.
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gunplagirl posted...

RoadsterUFO posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Nazis: let's destroy all these inferior races
Communists: let's reallocate wealth that has been stolen from the workers and given to the hoarding rich to help raise the quality of life of all peoples
People: these two are just as bad

Communists are the flat earthers of economics that pretend to have the moral high ground despite their ideology having killed more than Nazism ever did.

It's funny you mention that "communism killed more" thing while ignoring how capitalist intervention destroyed crops and the like which worsened starvation rates. Or how you ignore that there's millions who get sick and die every year from lack of medical treatment, food, and clean water despite having the resources to allocate such ththings for all humans in the world yet what prevents us from doing so is lack of financial incentive... And despite that lack of interest in saving lives, nobody attributes those preventable deaths to capitalism.

Oh but it's okay those people died, they dont deserve the money that elon musk totally deserved by underpaying his employees for years

What are you even blabbering about? Plenty of wealthy people, like Bill Gates, leverage their incredible wealth for inspiring effective philanthropy like destroying malaria throughout the world in countries that are so corrupt and ruled by violence that they won't help themselves.

The countries where the largest number of people have attained access to food, shelter, and freedom has been capitalistic countries that allow private property, free trade, and open markets. And those countries are the ones where we are seeing the fastest reduction in poverty.

silentwing26x posted...

The freedom to do business, to learn what you want, to be who you want,

How do you feel about liberal arts majors?
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Many are just pseudo-intellectuals much like yourself.
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silentwing26x posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Nazis: let's destroy all these inferior races
Communists: let's reallocate wealth that has been stolen from the workers and given to the hoarding rich to help raise the quality of life of all peoples
People: these two are just as bad

Nazi beliefs around Aryan superiority and Commie beliefs around supposed exploitation in the form of profit both manifested in violent and catastrophic armed conflicts that killed tens of millions of people and bankrupted/starved countless millions more. Both worldviews are intellectually bankrupt and immoral and necessarily lead to violence.

Capitalism pushed for slavery, the destruction of stable governments (see also: list of American interventions in central and south america, Africa, the middle East, parts of Asia), etc.
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PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

ledbowman posted...

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?

It's really weird how there's literal communists on CE and we give them a free pass to peddle their horrific and violent horse shit.

Communism is the only path to equality, true freedom, and fulfilling lives for all.

No, western secularism is the only path to those things. IE the culture we've enjoyed and promoted and encouraged in western culture for the last 150 years. IE the pursuit of life, liberty, and justice. The freedom to do business, to learn what you want, to be who you want, and the protection of individual liberties and private property.

Capitalism has fulfilled it's purpose, but is now stifling progress. We don't get to do any of those things as big fat cows on top decide our lives for us. Our passions are seen as childish ambitions.

Work smarter then. Or better yet, start your own damn company.
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Antifar posted...

*snipped for space*

Mainstream politicians have offered very little in terms of a solution to this problem.

Let's wait and see what the competitive labor market does for wages. We've recently hit a record number of unfilled jobs, and companies have begun competing for talent in the form of better benefits/wages.

Example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2018/05/30/walmart-to-offer-employees-a-college-education-for-1-a-day/?utm_term=.1de947a442fa

Walmart, the countrys largest private employer, announced Wednesday that it will pay for its workers to go back to school as long as they get degrees in business or supply-chain management.

The retailer is partnering with three universities to offer associates and bachelors degrees to 1.4 million part-time, full-time and salaried Walmart and Sams Club employees a pitch to improve employee retention rates and engagement at work, while also drawing new workers. Walmart will cover the costs of tuition, books and fees, while employees will be required to pay $1 a day for the duration of their studies.

We know there [are] a lot of benefits from a business perspective, Drew Holler, vice president of people innovation for Walmart U.S., said on a call with reporters. We know were going to see an influx of applications.

Degrees will be offered by the University of Florida in Gainesville, Brandman University in Irvine, Calif., and Bellevue University in Bellevue, Neb., all nonprofit institutions with online programs for working adults. Rachel Carlson, chief executive of Guild Education, a Denver-based company that will oversee the program, pointed out that the program allows employees to earn a degree without amassing college debt.

Walmarts announcement comes as retailers struggle to attract and retain workers in an increasingly competitive labor market. The unemployment rate is at a 17-year low, and the number of open jobs in retail 723,000 as of March has continued to grow, according to government data.

Earlier this year, Walmart raised its starting hourly wage from $9 to $11 and began offering paid parental leave and adoption benefits to full-time employees. Other companies have also taken similar measures in recent months, with Target pledging to raise its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020 and Starbucks offering paid sick leave and stock grants to its baristas.

There are other examples like this. And hopefully we'll see even more examples like this in the coming years, as the recent tax cuts and tightening labor market haven't had enough time to exert their full effect on the economy.

Intro2Logic posted...

silentwing26x posted...

The freedom to do business, to learn what you want, to be who you want,

How do you feel about liberal arts majors?

Go for it. Just don't expect it to be an investment into a career path unless it's one of the liberal arts majors that is relevant in the labor market today.

_Goggalor_ posted...

PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

ledbowman posted...

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?

It's really weird how there's literal communists on CE and we give them a free pass to peddle their horrific and violent horse shit.

Communism is the only path to equality, true freedom, and fulfilling lives for all.

No, western secularism is the only path to those things. IE the culture we've enjoyed and promoted and encouraged in western culture for the last 150 years. IE the pursuit of life, liberty, and justice. The freedom to do business, to learn what you want, to be who you want, and the protection of individual liberties and private property.

Capitalism has fulfilled it's purpose, but is now stifling progress. We don't get to do any of those things as big fat cows on top decide our lives for us. Our passions are seen as childish ambitions.

Work smarter then. Or better yet, start your own damn company.

Funny when businesses lobby the government to crush small businesses.

Working 40 hours a week is a huge time sink. That isn't freedom.
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gunplagirl posted...

silentwing26x posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Nazis: let's destroy all these inferior races
Communists: let's reallocate wealth that has been stolen from the workers and given to the hoarding rich to help raise the quality of life of all peoples
People: these two are just as bad

Nazi beliefs around Aryan superiority and Commie beliefs around supposed exploitation in the form of profit both manifested in violent and catastrophic armed conflicts that killed tens of millions of people and bankrupted/starved countless millions more. Both worldviews are intellectually bankrupt and immoral and necessarily lead to violence.

Capitalism pushed for slavery, the destruction of stable governments (see also: list of American interventions in central and south america, Africa, the middle East, parts of Asia), etc.

Nope. This is manifest nonsense. America, which has always been a capitalist country, underwent a vicious and destructive civil war. A ton of Americans died fighting against slavery, dude, so obviously that isn't inherent to capitalism. Slavery was a tragic part of history that existed throughout every stage of life.

There was never a long-lasting communist collective. It is a myth to blame "American intervention" for communism's failings at nation-scale.

Currently, the richest 1% hold about 38% of all privately held wealth in the United States, while the bottom 90% held 73% of all debt. According to The New York Times, the richest 1% in the United States now own more wealth than the bottom 90%.
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PiOverlord posted...

_Goggalor_ posted...

PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

ledbowman posted...

Are we gonna have to hear about communism all they way till Bernie leaves office?

It's really weird how there's literal communists on CE and we give them a free pass to peddle their horrific and violent horse shit.

Communism is the only path to equality, true freedom, and fulfilling lives for all.

No, western secularism is the only path to those things. IE the culture we've enjoyed and promoted and encouraged in western culture for the last 150 years. IE the pursuit of life, liberty, and justice. The freedom to do business, to learn what you want, to be who you want, and the protection of individual liberties and private property.

Capitalism has fulfilled it's purpose, but is now stifling progress. We don't get to do any of those things as big fat cows on top decide our lives for us. Our passions are seen as childish ambitions.

Work smarter then. Or better yet, start your own damn company.

Funny when businesses lobby the government to crush small businesses.

Working 40 hours a week is a huge time sink. That isn't freedom.

And thanks to capitalism, we have more free time than ever. The average American watches 5 fucking hours of television per day.

https://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/average-american-watches-5-hours-tv-day-article-1.1711954

And we used to spend 10-12 hours per week washing clothes until the washing machine was invented and sold to consumers. Capitalism literally freed us from mundane and repetitive bullshit like washing clothing and heavy manual farming.

silentwing26x posted...

gunplagirl posted...

RoadsterUFO posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Nazis: let's destroy all these inferior races
Communists: let's reallocate wealth that has been stolen from the workers and given to the hoarding rich to help raise the quality of life of all peoples
People: these two are just as bad

Communists are the flat earthers of economics that pretend to have the moral high ground despite their ideology having killed more than Nazism ever did.

It's funny you mention that "communism killed more" thing while ignoring how capitalist intervention destroyed crops and the like which worsened starvation rates. Or how you ignore that there's millions who get sick and die every year from lack of medical treatment, food, and clean water despite having the resources to allocate such ththings for all humans in the world yet what prevents us from doing so is lack of financial incentive... And despite that lack of interest in saving lives, nobody attributes those preventable deaths to capitalism.

Oh but it's okay those people died, they dont deserve the money that elon musk totally deserved by underpaying his employees for years

What are you even blabbering about? Plenty of wealthy people, like Bill Gates, leverage their incredible wealth for inspiring effective philanthropy like destroying malaria throughout the world in countries that are so corrupt and ruled by violence that they won't help themselves.

The countries where the largest number of people have attained access to food, shelter, and freedom has been capitalistic countries that allow private property, free trade, and open markets. And those countries are the ones where we are seeing the fastest reduction in poverty.

Ah, so you're ignoring how capitalistic policies have destroyed lives because a few philanthropic idealists. Nobody should have more money than 1% of the global population. And yet it's like, the richest 7 people own more than the lowest 35% of the planet?

"Reduction of poverty" also means little in nations like the US where as wealth inequality grows, the entire economy can be destabilized by several sufficiently rich people. Then there's the fact that their money is giving single individuals more power in government policy than the will of the majority of voters in the nation.
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The rise of the right wing nationalism in the West led to somewhat of an equal push back on the left. It's simply a case of history repeating itself

EDIT: I shouldn't have to say this as it's implied, but this also doesn't have shit to do with Trump for those who blame him. He's nothing more than another cog in the wheel that we've been on rather than the cause itself
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ledbowman posted...

Currently, the richest 1% hold about 38% of all privately held wealth in the United States, while the bottom 90% held 73% of all debt. According to The New York Times, the richest 1% in the United States now own more wealth than the bottom 90%.

This is vacuous nonsense that has been repeated so many times that people simply take for granted the idea that it actually means something.

It doesn't actually mean anything. It doesn't matter if the richest 1% own 20% or 40% of the current private wealth. What matters is what the standard of living is like for everyone else. Someone's share of the current wealth might stay at 1% over the next 20 years, but if that 1% represents more wealth than it used to, then they're better off.

You also have to keep in mind that there is no 1%, just like there is no bottom 90%. These "classes" are not static. Meaning, people leave the bottom 90% and the top 1% all the time. In fact, most people in the bottom 25% will not stay there in their life time. And the top 1% changes regularly too.

There is no static group of people that keeps getting shafted by some longstanding extremely elusive group of rich people.

Nobody should have more money than 1% of the global population.

Says who? You?
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silentwing26x posted...

ledbowman posted...

Currently, the richest 1% hold about 38% of all privately held wealth in the United States, while the bottom 90% held 73% of all debt. According to The New York Times, the richest 1% in the United States now own more wealth than the bottom 90%.

This is vacuous nonsense that has been repeated so many times that people simply take for granted the idea that it actually means something.

It doesn't actually mean anything. It doesn't matter if the richest 1% own 20% or 40% of the current private wealth. What matters is what the standard of living is like for everyone else. Someone's share of the current wealth might stay at 1% over the next 20 years, but if that 1% represents more wealth than it used to, then they're better off.

You also have to keep in mind that there is no 1%, just like there is no bottom 90%. These "classes" are not static. Meaning, people leave the bottom 90% and the top 1% all the time. In fact, most people in the bottom 25% will not stay there in their life time. And the top 1% changes regularly too.

There is no static group of people that keeps getting shafted by some longstanding extremely elusive group of rich people.

Do you know what currently means?
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RoadsterUFO posted...

pretend to have the moral high ground

sounds like sjws. the lowest form of life. even nazis are like "at least im not a fucking disgusting sjw"
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gunplagirl posted...

Ah, so you're ignoring how capitalistic policies have destroyed lives because a few philanthropic idealists. Nobody should have more money than 1% of the global population. And yet it's like, the richest 7 people own more than the lowest 35% of the planet?

"Reduction of poverty" also means little in nations like the US where as wealth inequality grows, the entire economy can be destabilized by several sufficiently rich people. Then there's the fact that their money is giving single individuals more power in government policy than the will of the majority of voters in the nation.

None of that is an argument though. Saying "no one should do that" is not an argument. It's a worthless normative statement based on nothing more than opinion. It literally doesn't matter how much the wealthy have. What matters is how much everyone else has.

Someone might have 50% of the current global wealth, yet if the global economy triples over the next five years...then everyone else benefited too. The disparity is not evidence of anything at the end of the day, because disparities can occur naturally. Corruption in politics will always exist, but interestingly enough the most corrupt politicians have historically come from communist collectives.

And there is no capitalistic policy that has destroyed lives.