Current Events > Stage banning really is pretty stupid for Smash tournaments

(+) Yeah! (+)

Was going over some of the reasoning on the wiki, some have great reasons as not aesthetically pleasing

Which game are you talking about?

P sure for Melee, banned stages are ones with hazards, ones that promote camping, or ones that largely buff specific characters. Don't recall aesthetics being a reason, sounds like a Sm4sh thing.

EDIT: Just looked at the wiki, it means stages with weird lighting or affects that can mess with gameplay.
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To be fair, some stages are outright detrimental to a fair fight between two players.

Castle Siege being banned is rather ridiculous, though.
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That's why I hate the fighting game community. "This stage is banned! This character is banned! This music is banned!"

Just choose your favorite stuff and play the damn game.
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Behaviorism posted...

That's why I hate the fighting game community. "This stage is banned! This character is banned! This music is banned!"

Just choose your favorite stuff and play the damn game.

Used to play with items on medium or low growing up.

Now some friends try to plan tournament rules and its just not the same funny hectiness as it was before

Solar_Crimson posted...

To be fair, some stages are outright detrimental to a fair fight between two players.

Castle Siege being banned is rather ridiculous, though.

I mean the second transformation has walk-offs

Makes sense to me
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They add random effects. Some stages also can cause lag because of their effects.

In Melee there are only like 10 stages (maybe less) that can be used. They're even talking about banning Pokemon Stadium. The biggest reason everything is banned is because of Fox. He gets a free infinite on any stage with a wall.
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Fox only
Final destination
No items
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Middle hope posted...

Fox only
Final destination
No items

And that's fun? Fuck out of here
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Behaviorism posted...

Middle hope posted...

Fox only
Final destination
No items

And that's fun? Fuck out of here

No down B for you!
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it's almost as if some games weren't designed for tournament play yet people still insist they can and should be when you implement x and y and z restrictions!
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AsucaHayashi posted...

it's almost as if some games weren't designed for tournament play yet people still insist they can and should be when you implement x and y and z restrictions!

Yet Melee is the longest running game at EVO.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeird.
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Blbmbr666 posted...

AsucaHayashi posted...

it's almost as if some games weren't designed for tournament play yet people still insist they can and should be when you implement x and y and z restrictions!

Yet Melee is the longest running game at EVO.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeird.

is this supposed to counter my argument? because i don't think it does..
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Alpha218 posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

To be fair, some stages are outright detrimental to a fair fight between two players.

Castle Siege being banned is rather ridiculous, though.

I mean the second transformation has walk-offs

Makes sense to me

Not to me. If you aren't good enough to avoid them, you shouldn't be able to advance.
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Imagine a Mario Kart tournament where items are banned and you can only race Mario Circuit

Literally fighting game tournament logic
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16-BITTER posted...

Like, it's cool that they can tweak the rules and make it feel more like a traditional fighting game, but we already have plenty of those. The "serious Smash" players should just move on to guilty gear or something

No other games play like Smash.

Like fucking wat your argument is shit.
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16-BITTER posted...

Blbmbr666 posted...

No other games play like Smash.

Where did I say they did?

So why would they switch to a game with completely different mechanics?
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16-BITTER posted...

The "serious Smash" players should just move on to guilty gear or something

There is no reason I cant play both.
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16-BITTER posted...

"Completely different"

Ok

I mean they practically are unless you wanna dumb it down to "hit them, don't get hit," which would be kind of foolish.

Middle hope posted...

Fox only
Final destination
No items

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Wuts wrong with play how u want and dont worry about how tourney people play?
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Same thing happens with FPS. Competitive CoD is hilariously restrictedexcept of course the OP guns so everyone ends up using the same shit
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AsucaHayashi posted...

it's almost as if some games weren't designed for tournament play yet people still insist they can and should be when you implement x and y and z restrictions!

If those restrictions are available as options in game, then what's the issue?

It's not like you can't turn the items off and just ignore them. They're playing the game within the parameters that it was designed
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Imagine a Mario Kart tournament where items are banned and you can only race Mario Circuit

Literally fighting game tournament logic

Imagine a Mario Kart tournament
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darkjedilink posted...

Alpha218 posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

To be fair, some stages are outright detrimental to a fair fight between two players.

Castle Siege being banned is rather ridiculous, though.

I mean the second transformation has walk-offs

Makes sense to me

Not to me. If you aren't good enough to avoid them, you shouldn't be able to advance.

Walk-offs encourage camping because if you land a grab near one of the edges you can easily throw someone into the blast zones

Stages are banned for having walk-offs for that reason - they don't want people to camp
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Most stage bans make sense, but it does make things somewhat dull. I think Melee has a decent variety of legal stages, but I don't really feel that way about Smash 4.
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Garbage like 75m, Mushroomy Kingdom, Hanenbow, Ice Mountain etc are literally crimes against humanity and should be banned for life.
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People haven't even done Final Destination majorly when the meme was born. Pokemon Stadium and Battlefield was probably played almost twice as much, even more now where Final Destination is a counterpick to characters that are great at Battlefield
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Godnorgosh posted...

Blbmbr666 posted...

EDIT: Just looked at the wiki, it means stages with weird lighting or affects that can mess with gameplay.

This is also why, in 64, black Falcon, dark Samus and black DK were banned on Kongo Jungle when Kongo was legal.

Speaking of 64, it obviously has the worst legal stage list of any smash game. It's sensible, but definitely dull as a spectator seeing Dream Land every single game.
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GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Blbmbr666 posted...

EDIT: Just looked at the wiki, it means stages with weird lighting or affects that can mess with gameplay.

This is also why, in 64, black Falcon, dark Samus and black DK were banned on Kongo Jungle when Kongo was legal.

Speaking of 64, it obviously has the worst legal stage list of any smash game. It's sensible, but definitely dull as a spectator seeing Dream Land every single game.

This is true, they've talked about modding in Battlefield and FD though, which are usually only available in solo modes.
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MarqueeSeries posted...

If those restrictions are available as options in game, then what's the issue?

it's not really an option anymore if they need to be imposed in order to create playable scenarios.
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Behaviorism posted...

That's why I hate the fighting game community. "This stage is banned! This character is banned! This music is banned!"

Just choose your favorite stuff and play the damn game.

when you have tens of thousands of dollars on the line you can't expect people to just pick their favorites. They're gonna play the cheapest characters and use the easiest strategies to win with.
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Alpha218 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Alpha218 posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

To be fair, some stages are outright detrimental to a fair fight between two players.

Castle Siege being banned is rather ridiculous, though.

I mean the second transformation has walk-offs

Makes sense to me

Not to me. If you aren't good enough to avoid them, you shouldn't be able to advance.

Walk-offs encourage camping because if you land a grab near one of the edges you can easily throw someone into the blast zones

Stages are banned for having walk-offs for that reason - they don't want people to camp

I don't care. Get good enough to deal with campers. Or don't play Smash, since - by banning stages, characters, and items - you literally aren't playing Smash anyway.
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I remember all the meltdowns when they introduced stumbling
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Godnorgosh posted...

CasualGuy posted...

Behaviorism posted...

That's why I hate the fighting game community. "This stage is banned! This character is banned! This music is banned!"

Just choose your favorite stuff and play the damn game.

when you have tens of thousands of dollars on the line you can't expect people to just pick their favorites. They're gonna play the cheapest characters and use the easiest strategies to win with.

Well, more to the point, in competitive environments, people tend to want to reduce the impact that chance has on the outcome of a game or set. No one wants to spend a lot of time practicing and improving at a game only to lose because they were dealt a shit hand. In most cases, you can't eliminate that element entirely (Whispy can be a bitch in 64), but you can almost always mitigate it.

But mitigating chance isn't "fun" I guess to these people.

You got stages in Tekken 7 that benefit certain characters with floor/wall breaks.

Good thing the Tekken community isn't bitch made like the Smash community.
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You can play omega versions of every stage where it's basically final destination with a different theme right?

The FGC will be elitist at anything, I swear to god.
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StraightMACLIN posted...

You got stages in Tekken 7 that benefit certain characters with floor/wall breaks.

Good thing the Tekken community isn't bitch made like the Smash community.

Lol it isn't the same. Fox can 0 to death the entire cast with walls and there is nothing you can do.
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Lol why do yall care so much how they play?
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CruelBuffalo posted...

Behaviorism posted...

That's why I hate the fighting game community. "This stage is banned! This character is banned! This music is banned!"

Just choose your favorite stuff and play the damn game.

Used to play with items on medium or low growing up.

Now some friends try to plan tournament rules and its just not the same funny hectiness as it was before

this happens to me too, the unspoken reasoning which they'll never admit is that I'm too damn good and they want to gimp me so they can MAYBE win lol
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Imagine a Mario Kart tournament where items are banned and you can only race Mario Circuit

Literally fighting game tournament logic

The difference I think is that Smash Bros. is still fun without items.

Mario Kart's fucking boring without items. And in most cases impossible to catch up to the lead.
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juicebox4 posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Behaviorism posted...

That's why I hate the fighting game community. "This stage is banned! This character is banned! This music is banned!"

Just choose your favorite stuff and play the damn game.

Used to play with items on medium or low growing up.

Now some friends try to plan tournament rules and its just not the same funny hectiness as it was before

this happens to me too, the unspoken reasoning which they'll never admit is that I'm too damn good and they want to gimp me so they can MAYBE win lol

"They just wanna eliminate randomness!"
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darkjedilink posted...

Alpha218 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Alpha218 posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

To be fair, some stages are outright detrimental to a fair fight between two players.

Castle Siege being banned is rather ridiculous, though.

I mean the second transformation has walk-offs

Makes sense to me

Not to me. If you aren't good enough to avoid them, you shouldn't be able to advance.

Walk-offs encourage camping because if you land a grab near one of the edges you can easily throw someone into the blast zones

Stages are banned for having walk-offs for that reason - they don't want people to camp

I don't care. Get good enough to deal with campers. Or don't play Smash, since - by banning stages, characters, and items - you literally aren't playing Smash anyway.

The game gives you the option to turn off items and select whatever stage and character you want. So yes, you still are playing Smash. The series is so good because it lets you play however you want to play. As far as camping goes, you're not factoring in the spectator here. Spectators have no patience for camping.
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Behaviorism posted...

Middle hope posted...

Fox only
Final destination
No items

And that's fun? Fuck out of here

Competitive isn't meant to be fun
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