Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 189: Flip or Flop

(+) Yeah! (+)

No one else wanted to make a topic I guess so I went with a basic title I had in reserve
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Thanks, boo
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/mexico-us-trade-deal/index.html
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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/08/27/irans-strait-hormuz-control-stokes-tensions-could-prompt-us-response.html
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https://apnews.com/5fa24ab9eafb456089fb9ff1a22ec694
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Some rumblings that Ocasio-Cortez faked her background also.

Nevermind. That is FakeNews. Apparently it is Julia Salazar who faked her background.

The Ocasio-Cortez stuff is just that she is saying she was raised in the Bronx but questionably wasn't.
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Corrik posted...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/08/27/irans-strait-hormuz-control-stokes-tensions-could-prompt-us-response.html

What are our options?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/08/27/irans-strait-hormuz-control-stokes-tensions-could-prompt-us-response.html

What are our options?

If they fuck with the Saudi oil flow, I have zero doubt military action will be taken. Might be taken regardless. Iran isn't exactly our friend.
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Pretty sure we've had a conversation in the past about how lazy and nonconversational it is to post url's with zero context and zero commentary.

Our topic title numbers and names may change, but some things just stay the same.
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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/08/27/irans-strait-hormuz-control-stokes-tensions-could-prompt-us-response.html

What are our options?

If they fuck with the Saudi oil flow, I have zero doubt military action will be taken. Might be taken regardless. Iran isn't exactly our friend.

Is oil flow worth lives?
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Peace___Frog posted...

Pretty sure we've had a conversation in the past about how lazy and nonconversational it is to post url's with zero context and zero commentary.

Our topic title numbers and names may change, but some things just stay the same.

Can only imagine how the "lazy" argument works when someone takes the time to find conversation pieces to link to the topic and people are too lazy to click a mouse button once and read because they instead want someone to break it down for them. So they claim the person providing the links is lazy instead.

Lmfao
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/08/27/irans-strait-hormuz-control-stokes-tensions-could-prompt-us-response.html

What are our options?

If they fuck with the Saudi oil flow, I have zero doubt military action will be taken. Might be taken regardless. Iran isn't exactly our friend.

Is oil flow worth lives?

That has been answered countless times in history. Yes.

And preventing oil flow would be an act of war anyways basically.
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Well then okay kill them now, why wait?
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Corrik posted...

So they claim the person providing the links is lazy instead.

If you have something to say, just say it. Demanding that others in an open conversation do the homework you're assigning to them is lazy, inconsiderate, and rude. Easy as that.
Get off your high horse. A URL with zero context or commentary is barely more useful than an ulti post.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Well then okay kill them now, why wait?

We do not know if they are actually going to do what they say or if it is just a general talking out his ass or so on. If they do it, they will be dealt with.
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Peace___Frog posted...

Corrik posted...

So they claim the person providing the links is lazy instead.

If you have something to say, just say it. Demanding that others in an open conversation do the homework you're assigning to them is lazy, inconsiderate, and rude. Easy as that.
Get off your high horse. A URL with zero context or commentary is barely more useful than an ulti post.

Read the URL headline. Provides it own context. Lmfao
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Heres what my link without description was about:

The governments top official overseeing the $1.5 trillion student loan market resigned in protest on Monday, citing what he says is the White Houses open hostility toward protecting the nations millions of student loan borrowers.

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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Well then okay kill them now, why wait?

We do not know if they are actually going to do what they say or if it is just a general talking out his ass or so on. If they do it, they will be dealt with.

Why not just kill them now and be done with it, if theres a chance they might do it later?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Well then okay kill them now, why wait?

We do not know if they are actually going to do what they say or if it is just a general talking out his ass or so on. If they do it, they will be dealt with.

Why not just kill them now and be done with it, if theres a chance they might do it later?

Trolling.
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No, actually asking
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Jakyl25 posted...

Heres what my link without description was about:

The governments top official overseeing the $1.5 trillion student loan market resigned in protest on Monday, citing what he says is the White Houses open hostility toward protecting the nations millions of student loan borrowers.

Interesting. The student loan bubble has been a crisis for years, it's no surprise that this administration is on the side of the borrowers.
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You mean the lenders
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If only the U.S. had some sort of ongoing agreement that could allow us to put the screws to Iran.
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I don't have time to look up exactly the geopolitics here, but speaking generally I take no issue with military action as a response to foreign military intervention in established trade routes. To clarify this only applies as long as action taken is directly in pursuit of reclaiming the trade routes.
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This is also assuming the lack of a better option, such as if some kind of economic move could accomplish the same thing.
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Espeon posted...

If only the U.S. had some sort of ongoing agreement that could allow us to put the screws to Iran.

...Iran is being incredibly fucked by US economic sanctions right now, which is almost certainly the reason for this escalation.
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GildedFool posted...

Espeon posted...

If only the U.S. had some sort of ongoing agreement that could allow us to put the screws to Iran.

...Iran is being incredibly fucked by US economic sanctions right now, which is almost certainly the reason for this escalation.

Im not sure if youre following the sarcasm of my statement.
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I'm not. Because you're already putting the screws to Iran financially, so why would you recommend that as a solution to a new problem that has arisen as a result of that economic attack?

Unless you're suggesting that the economic sanctions are bad, which your "sarcasm" assuredly didn't imply.
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Jakyl25 posted...

You mean the lenders

Yes, whoops
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GildedFool posted...

I'm not. Because you're already putting the screws to Iran financially, so why would you recommend that as a solution to a new problem that has arisen as a result of that economic attack?

Unless you're suggesting that the economic sanctions are bad, which your "sarcasm" assuredly didn't imply.

We had a deal with Iran that eased sanctions in exchange for monitoring and weakening their nuclear potential. But because it was a deal created by Obama, Trump had to destroy it and reimpose sanctions. Hence the situation were in now, where not only do the current sanctions hurt Iran to the point of doing this shit, but weve also lost any sense of leverage because we're already sanctioning them.
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Just to be clear, the direction I was going with Corrik was to compare this situation (where he doesnt excuse pre-emptive murder) with the case where the officer shot and killed a drive by murder suspect while he was fleeing, which was defended as what if he then went and killed someone later?
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You guys are almost there, kinda like a drunk looking for his keys under a streetlight because that's where the light is.

This is happening BECAUSE of economic sanctions re applied by Trump

This is Iran hitting back. This is a desperate act but Iran isn't stupid. They probably have a plan of some sort. The threaten this, it probably is as a means to force negotiation on *their* terms.

Also a friendly reminder that our budget deficit is now 100% of GDP so any escalation in military budget that a war with Iran would entail could potentially be truly crippling.
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Thats what I said, isnt it?
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Eddv posted...

Also a friendly reminder that our budget deficit is now 100% of GDP so any escalation in military budget that a war with Iran would entail could potentially be truly crippling.

Youre one of the more pragmatic people here. How do we fix this?
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Burn down the military industrial complex imo
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Peace___Frog posted...

Burn down the military industrial complex imo

#EisenhowerWasRight
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Jakyl25 posted...

Eddv posted...

Also a friendly reminder that our budget deficit is now 100% of GDP so any escalation in military budget that a war with Iran would entail could potentially be truly crippling.

Youre one of the more pragmatic people here. How do we fix this?

John Cena AA's the deficit.
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Corrik posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/mexico-us-trade-deal/index.html

Fun thread on this:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1034102632653172737
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Jakyl25 posted...

Eddv posted...

Also a friendly reminder that our budget deficit is now 100% of GDP so any escalation in military budget that a war with Iran would entail could potentially be truly crippling.

Youre one of the more pragmatic people here. How do we fix this?

The first thing I would do is sunset the trump tax cuts since they're the primary cause of this problem.

Then I would change the laws regarding Medicare to allow them to get actual market rates on medicine which OMB estimates could save us a large amount of money while actually providing a better service for the tax payer.

I would also restructure military spending. We don't need 20 aircraft carriers. We arguably don't need 1 aircraft carrier since those aee outdated technology that has been defeated in simulations by the a simulated Iranian army.

wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/that-time-a-marine-general-led-a-fictional-iran-against-the-us-military-and-won

Given that I believe its possible to drastically reduce what we spend on the military while producing a more modern and frankly better equipped military.
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TotallyNotMI posted...

Corrik posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/mexico-us-trade-deal/index.html

Fun thread on this:
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1034102632653172737

Literally what the fuck
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I feel like my head is going to explode trying to figure out what's going on with NAFTA 2.0. It seems like a total dumpster fire from the articles and reporter comments I've been reading about it this morning.

Far as I can tell, it seems like it's more or less just Trump trying to rebrand NAFTA so he can claim he got rid of NAFTA. But holy **** it's so confusing to me trying to follow all the threads - made orders of magnitudes worse by Trump's misinformation and bull**** about the whole thing.

He's framing this as a US/Mexico deal and "maybe we'll let Canada in on it" but I don't believe he has the authority to do a bilateral deal and would need to enter into a long process involving Congress if he really wanted that.

Canada has been chilling on the sidelines but Trump and Mexico kinda needs them to agree to whatever the **** is happening by the end of the month because once all three agree on a deal there's a 90-day clock that starts before they can sign the thing... and Mexico has a new administration coming in that may want to renegotiate certain points of the thing and unless all 3 countries agree inside 5 days that clock runs into that change of administration in Mexico.

And then you have the typical crazy **** we've all come to expect like Trump saying Mexico is a bigger trade partner with us than Canada when that's a lie. And him saying we agreed to a deal with Canada and an aide having to correct him that it was Mexico.

so y'know

monday
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oh i see you guys beat me to this crazy house

That twitter thread was part of my reading but not all of it obviously. none of it really helped me understand wtf is happening
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Should call it AFTA NAFTA
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Jakyl25 posted...

Just to be clear, the direction I was going with Corrik was to compare this situation (where he doesnt excuse pre-emptive murder) with the case where the officer shot and killed a drive by murder suspect while he was fleeing, which was defended as what if he then went and killed someone later?

This is not a valid comparison as I see it.

The whole basis for it being ok (in my opinion) in the police case is that the suspect had already done something that necessitated police intervention and was actively resisting said intervention. In other words it's not actually preemptive in that case.
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I want it on record that I feel actively dumber and less informed for trying to read up on the trade agreement stuff. That's how fucking awful and incoherent Trump is.
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Like, if you weren't already convinced before, this should be enough evidence to at least entertain the idea that Donald Trump is suffering from something along the lines of alzheimers or dementia
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pyresword posted...

The whole basis for it being ok (in my opinion) in the police case is that the suspect had already done something that necessitated police intervention and was actively resisting said intervention. In other words it's not actually preemptive in that case.

Not true actually. He was a passenger in the car from which murder had occurred, but there was no evidence that he was the shooter (and IIRC he wasnt).
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Reg posted...

Like, if you weren't already convinced before, this should be enough evidence to at least entertain the idea that Donald Trump is suffering from something along the lines of alzheimers or dementia

Either that or he's just a pathological liar.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Heres what my link without description was about:

The governments top official overseeing the $1.5 trillion student loan market resigned in protest on Monday, citing what he says is the White Houses open hostility toward protecting the nations millions of student loan borrowers.

Someone tell the president that they can't discharge it in bankruptcy. That'll elicit sympathy.

Youre one of the more pragmatic people here. How do we fix this?

Run up the deficit to 200% of GDP, then declare bankruptcy.
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xp1337 posted...

so y'know

monday

Crazy, huh
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