Board 8 > Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters XX: Day 21 (RULE CHANGE) [smfffc]

(+) Yeah! (+)

And even if this becomes an established rule, there's still no guarantee someone at the end would even know there was downtime in the first place to put the rule into play.
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"The site went down, I'll come back."

I mean if the downtime had been like an hour+ I'd be okay with just a full restart.
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Eddv posted...

Would it have been fair for X Death to go out because my save got eaten by the site going down?

yes, because we don't like you...
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MariaTaylor posted...

Eddv posted...

Would it have been fair for X Death to go out because my save got eaten by the site going down?

yes, because we don't like you...

Whoa man Lopen likes treasurer X-Death and he covered my Save after I messed up so hes cool
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you snooze you looze

i had 2 hours sleep because of an early morning exam and I'd still keep F5ing all night long if I had to!
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so because leftys dumb rule caused the lawyering he should ban himself for one round
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Isn't it only a lawyering if the result changes?
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Hell yeah Treasurer X-Death shout out I knew I covered it for a reason
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Inviso posted...

Isn't it only a lawyering if the result changes?

Correct. tennis is not banned for next round.
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Hey guys did you know that red ear sliders can bite really hard?
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Seeing the You're Winner screen again just now reminds me, we should also consider what to do if the site keeps going up and down.
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-This decision was made mid-round and quickly buried, thus causing many people to probably not see it and disregard it entirely.

-This has happened at least once before. I don't recall who the host was at the time, but I do recall that no changes to the rules were made.

-This gave an advantage to people who failed to save during hour 3 by extending the round longer, giving them a vote they wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

-The site wasn't down for even 30 minutes. It also returned shortly at the start of hour 4 from the start time. Very few, if any, would have received any sort of advantage from the save times not changing because SMFFFC is always heavily front loaded anyway due to its popularity.

It was a terrible call, and again, one made in haste and without much thought behind it. You really need to calm down with the hasty decision making in my opinion.
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I find it unfortunate that people are informing me that there was precedent now and not when the downtime was ongoing, because I was legitimately unaware there was precedent.

I am, despite my... reputation, human, and thereby prone to mistakes. But there is nothing listed in the extensive rule set in the first post that specifies how to handle downtime. I chose a different method than the method that was used before - one that there was no written record of.

I am perfectly willing to have an open discussion about how to handle extended downtime in the future, because I don't really think "just let the round keep going as if nothing happened" is a good solution once it goes beyond an hour. But if people want to go with the old precedent for shorter downtime, I can certainly oblige.
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Unless it's like really long (like what we just had), I guess I just don't see why anything even has to be done about downtime, especially when a mid-round rule change can cause bigger problems than it fixes.
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i had no idea you didn't know. i'm honestly shocked. you've been here forever and i'm almost positive it's happened more than once (maybe the other time was in Disney?).

if you don't like letting a round go on normally after downtime gets too long, the only alternative i see is canceling the round entirely. i think that should be reserved for 2+ hours though, 1 hour really isn't that bad.
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There was definitely downtime during a Leonhart-run round since I've started participating but I don't remember how long it lasted. I just remember going to the spreadsheet link and seeing if it was still going for other people.

I forget if this was SMFFFC or Pokemon, but during the switch to the new domain name the site went down for an hour in certain regions and not others. That round wasn't cancelled!
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yeah i remember that happening though i don't remember what it was in.

Idk what's happening but Lenne got the requisite two saves so

Thanks Nick and Bane for your bLENNEd of votes.
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th3l3fty posted...

I find it unfortunate that people are informing me that there was precedent now and not when the downtime was ongoing, because I was legitimately unaware there was precedent.

I am, despite my... reputation, human, and thereby prone to mistakes. But there is nothing listed in the extensive rule set in the first post that specifies how to handle downtime. I chose a different method than the method that was used before - one that there was no written record of.

I am perfectly willing to have an open discussion about how to handle extended downtime in the future, because I don't really think "just let the round keep going as if nothing happened" is a good solution once it goes beyond an hour. But if people want to go with the old precedent for shorter downtime, I can certainly oblige.

Oh, come on, don't play the "didn't know" card, this was simply another attempt at stirring up drama, and it worked, so congrats.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

CherryCokes posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

A character went out that didn't need to go out because I got fucked out of my save.

Nice.

someone was always gonna get fucked out of a save

sucks that it was you

better luck next time

Wakka, was it?

Please don't. Wakka has enough going against him
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Agreed. Can we at least wait until Wakka is safely out of bottom 10 all-time to aim the scopes his way?

Not to be a party-pooper, but that's all charon has going for him this contest since Seymour, Rufus, Cloud, and Tidus have all done about as well as any of them could hope to do, and Basch got screwed out of even being in XX because of nomination shenanigans.

Just saying char only has one thing to root for so please don't steal that from him
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Nevermind lhg has managed to anger me much more.

Okay so I got onto Lefty last night because I believe he made a bad decision and as his friend I feel okay with smacking him around a bit when I think he has made a poor decision because you know,honesty. But at the end of the day while sick and annoyed it was just a silly choice and I move on.

But what type of person do you have to be to think that Lefty was trying to cause drama. Like, dude was super stressed about this and not feeling well and we've got this guy in here being like "look at you causing drama, grats" like my god I am totally on board with critiquing the decision, I did it myself, but to then have some conspiracy theory that lefty is all about 'dat drama' when really Lefty is usually the most unassuming host of things ever (see uoty years back where he got hated on all year and only did a great job) is absurd.

So nevermind, Wakka is safe.
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GenesisSaga posted...

Agreed. Can we at least wait until Wakka is safely out of bottom 10 all-time to aim the scopes his way?

Not to be a party-pooper, but that's all charon has going for him this contest since Seymour, Rufus, Cloud, and Tidus have all done about as well as any of them could hope to do, and Basch got screwed out of even being in XX because of nomination shenanigans.

Just saying char only has one thing to root for so please don't steal that from him

Let me just bust out the worlds smallest violin. For someone whose character FUCKING WON last year.
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I've been waiting for 20 contests for one of my characters to win.

Someday we'll do it.
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Uh... Cloud might be top 5 (not certain), but he's certainly not charon's "character" or whatevs. That'd be Seymour. In fact while he loves Cloud I'm pretty sure char hated everything about his run last contest and took little to no part in Cloud's victory aside from the final 3 rounds maybe, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Regardless that was last contest and has nothing to do with this one, where he does indeed have one goal in mind.

I do love violins though, so please play to your heart's content.
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I mean, you did specifically list Cloud in your post, Genny.
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I suppose now that I think about it, Tidus is one of my characters and he did win one.

But man I almost didn't care about him winning that year so it's easy to forget.
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th3l3fty posted...

I am perfectly willing to have an open discussion about how to handle extended downtime in the future, because I don't really think "just let the round keep going as if nothing happened" is a good solution once it goes beyond an hour. But if people want to go with the old precedent for shorter downtime, I can certainly oblige.

Here's how I see it. You already have rounds going up at different, randomized times. Maybe people are around; maybe they aren't. Maybe they're around but forget to check the board. That's just how it goes.

I view downtime the same way. For sure it can change things, because maybe someone forgets to check back, or he has a meeting and isn't around when the site goes back up, or whatever. But all those things are just typical save contest things in the first place.

I feel like any attempt to restore the pre-downtime status quo is going to (1) not work, because downtime will change the round regardless of what you do, and (2) confuse people who don't read the whole topic and lead to potential lawyerings. So in that sense there's no "good" solution to extended downtime, but tinkering with things can always make it worse.
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also wooooo Cloud
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You two do this every year - though now with the twist that you do charons whining for him, ain't love grand.

"Poor us. Our stuff is so maligned. We only always do well in these and last year one of our priorities won. Poor Wakka and Basch. Pay no attention to the fact that we wasted our nominations on Reks and Vayne its BASCHs absence that means so much to us."
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Espeon posted...

I mean, you did specifically list Cloud in your post, Genny.

Still top 5 as far as I know

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Nevermind lhg has managed to anger me much more.

Okay so I got onto Lefty last night because I believe he made a bad decision and as his friend I feel okay with smacking him around a bit when I think he has made a poor decision because you know,honesty. But at the end of the day while sick and annoyed it was just a silly choice and I move on.

But what type of person do you have to be to think that Lefty was trying to cause drama. Like, dude was super stressed about this and not feeling well and we've got this guy in here being like "look at you causing drama, grats" like my god I am totally on board with critiquing the decision, I did it myself, but to then have some conspiracy theory that lefty is all about 'dat drama' when really Lefty is usually the most unassuming host of things ever (see uoty years back where he got hated on all year and only did a great job) is absurd.

So nevermind, Wakka is safe.

I agree it was a pretty bad snap decision, but I really don't think it was made for the lulz or whatever. Nah l3fty thought it seemed fair to everyone at the time even though he was given multiple examples of how it gave people who held or hadn't saved the edge over those who could have saved normally had the site not went down right before 4th hour. I honestly still don't get the logic there but it happened and I'm moving on instead of nitpicking.

Next round when?
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I mean you still listed Cloud to try to prove a point and now you're trying to backdown on him
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Gatarix posted...

Here's how I see it. You already have rounds going up at different, randomized times. Maybe people are around; maybe they aren't. Maybe they're around but forget to check the board. That's just how it goes.

I view downtime the same way. For sure it can change things, because maybe someone forgets to check back, or he has a meeting and isn't around when the site goes back up, or whatever. But all those things are just typical save contest things in the first place.

this half was exactly my view

but maybe lefty should start announcing when the randomized start times will be within an announcement-window period~ possibly a fuzzy reveal (not exact start time)
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GuessMyUserName posted...

Gatarix posted...

Here's how I see it. You already have rounds going up at different, randomized times. Maybe people are around; maybe they aren't. Maybe they're around but forget to check the board. That's just how it goes.

I view downtime the same way. For sure it can change things, because maybe someone forgets to check back, or he has a meeting and isn't around when the site goes back up, or whatever. But all those things are just typical save contest things in the first place.

this half was exactly my view

but maybe lefty should start announcing when the randomized start times will be within an announcement-window period~ possibly a fuzzy reveal (not exact start time)

I did this for SMDC and it was probably the most popular decision I'd made as a host [shameless plug]. That said I don't like that idea for smific. They're two very distinct contests and I prefer them to stay that way. The previous host already blurred the lines between them enough in my opinion by taking measures that would virtually eliminate all possibility of lawyering and mediating most drama. We don't need fuzzy start times too.
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smfffc has bad lines i'm okay with blurring

hail Ultros not getting lawyered again
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But isn't lawyering and drama literally half the fun of smific?

If you want a contest without any of that stuff King of the Mountain is thataway --->

[more shameless plugs]
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just like random start times is half the fun

announced times are the most boring thing imaginable for a save my
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.... what's smific

As someone who most often gets screwed by the random times due to not lurking the Discord and not having an email bot to inform me (but strangely been vaguely on top of it this year) I wish the times were more random.

Still no 2am rounds yet.
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Lawyering and drama arent fun, and theyve led to exactly one memorable moment in the contests history (plus a few instances of people directly cheating to lawyer out characters they dont like).
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Lopen posted...

As someone who most often gets screwed by the random times due to not lurking the Discord and not having an email bot to inform me (but strangely been vaguely on top of it this year) I wish the times were more random.

Still no 2am rounds yet.

After we're out of the boot rounds I'll be in favor of this. If start times are TOO random the host risks alienating their fanbase. I cannot imagine anything contest-related that would be worse than waking up to your favorite character being hard booted. I'd be done forever if that happened to me.

Waking up to your favorite finishing in 60th place? Oh well, c'est la vie, should've checked at 5 am.
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Some people wish I were so weak willed since I could've left with the Agnes boot were that the case for me.
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just reading this now and I saw some posts about downtime but I didn't see the post stating that I had to wait 90 minutes since I wasn't home and was on mobile

actually I thought I got lucky since when I saved at xx:09 I didn't think I'd get another

if the rules are ever changed mid-round again it would be helpful to repost the new rule(s) with each update

GenesisSaga posted...

After we're out of the boot rounds I'll be in favor of this. If start times are TOO random the host risks alienating their fanbase. I cannot imagine anything contest-related that would be worse than waking up to your favorite character being hard booted. I'd be done forever if that happened to me.

Welcome to my world

Well Prompto isn't my favorite but still!
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Also wtf I just noticed Locke is ded how did I completely miss that
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Yeah, it's just a little tone deaf suggesting how awful it would be to have a favourite character hard-booted whilst they sleep when that's already happened multiple times this very contest.
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Are you in somewhere in the region of Eurasia Luis?

I know MZero is in Japan

That completely sucks, but even pre-scheduled round times aren't going to be fair to everyone.

Sorry for your loss(es) n' shit.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Nevermind lhg has managed to anger me much more.

Okay so I got onto Lefty last night because I believe he made a bad decision and as his friend I feel okay with smacking him around a bit when I think he has made a poor decision because you know,honesty. But at the end of the day while sick and annoyed it was just a silly choice and I move on.

But what type of person do you have to be to think that Lefty was trying to cause drama. Like, dude was super stressed about this and not feeling well and we've got this guy in here being like "look at you causing drama, grats" like my god I am totally on board with critiquing the decision, I did it myself, but to then have some conspiracy theory that lefty is all about 'dat drama' when really Lefty is usually the most unassuming host of things ever (see uoty years back where he got hated on all year and only did a great job) is absurd.

So nevermind, Wakka is safe.

I thought we were missing the drama though? Maybe I overreacted but trying to also ban Stifled just a few rounds ago without hard evidence... And I just find it hard to believe that someone normally so through wouldn't remember a similar case not so long ago.
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I stand by that Lefty isn't trying to stir up drama he's just Joe Maddon aka he'd rather take action whenever he can to show he's doing his job when sometimes the correct action is to do nothing.
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