Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Charles Barkley & The Quad City DJs vs. Yu Narukami

(+) Yeah! (+)

Charles Barkley & The Quad City DJs have challenged Yu Narukami to a fight! Location of the fight: Secret Laboratory - A multi-layered underground base, full of sentai-styled flashing gadgets and mechanical doors, leading to a large operating room at the bottom, as seen in Persona 4. All doors are unlocked, all shadows have been removed, and access to the rest of the TV World is denied. Attackers will start at the entrance, with defenders starting at the operating room.. Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.
- The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427

The Quad City DJs (AKA Charles Barkley, Hoopz Barkley, Balthios James and the Cyberdwarf) are as they appear in Barkley, Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden, Chapter 1 of the Hoopz Barkley SaGa, equipped with their best weapons and items, with full access to all of their skills and with five Ecto-coolers, three servings of B-ball Juice, and five stubs of tobacco available to each. Barkley may not perform a Chaos Dunk during the fight. A mash-up version of Reach Out to the Truth and the Space Jam Theme will play continuously for the duration of this match, greatly pumping up the mercenaries on both teams to do their best for the week's match.

~VS~

Yu Narukami is as he appears in Persona 4. He has the persona Izanagi available, with all default skills from P4 learned in addition to all the moves from Persona 4 Arena, with the exception of his mortal blow or gameplay mechanics (invincibility frames, etc). He also can freely switch to his personas Magatsu-Izanagi and Kohryu, who have all of their skills and elemental affinities, save for Ghastly Wail.

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Who'll become the low and who'll become the high?! FIGHT!
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ADDENDUM: This is as good a time as any to note as a reminder that the Mercs fight conventions stipulate that fighters know the names and rough physical descriptions of enemy mercenaries (and consequently their numbers). Just something to keep in mind, in case it affects your votes.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

ADDENDUM: This is as good a time as any to note as a reminder that the Mercs fight conventions stipulate that fighters know the names and rough physical descriptions of enemy mercenaries (and consequently their numbers). Just something to keep in mind, in case it affects your votes.

Like they have done their homework and know each others capabilities/how powerful each other are?
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

ADDENDUM: This is as good a time as any to note as a reminder that the Mercs fight conventions stipulate that fighters know the names and rough physical descriptions of enemy mercenaries (and consequently their numbers). Just something to keep in mind, in case it affects your votes.

Like they have done their homework and know each others capabilities/how powerful each other are?

Not quite as expansive - more like what you could tell at a glance. So like, imagine you stared at Solid Snake through binoculars, right? You could tell he's a heavily armed middle-aged man in a skintight sneaking suit smoking cigarettes. If you looked at Dr. Wily, you could tell he's an old man in a robot, but not what the robot does. That kinda thing.
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Fair enough.
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As I said in the other topic, I'm not familiar with Shut Up and Jam enough to vote, but...what kind of punks are they if they can't just gang up on Yu?
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DeathChicken posted...

As I said in the other topic, I'm not familiar with Shut Up and Jam enough to vote, but...what kind of punks are they if they can't just gang up on Yu?

To provide a brief summary of what each one can do...

-Barkley: Is a supernatural basketball player. He can buff himself with ghost power, leech life from people he slams dunks into, and clone himself for a little bit to launch rapid basketballs through an opponent back and forth, and dunking people with holy power. He's dual-wielding a pair of basketballs that contain the energy of the legendary Chaos Dunk that killed millions of people.

-Balthios: Has a bunch of elemental 'zaubers' (magics) using his sword, including a couple debuffy ones that nerf just about everything a target can do.

-Hoopz: 12 year old kid on rollerskates with guns. Mostly acrobatic and flippy.

-Cyberdwarf: A dwarf cyborg made out of steel and basketballs. Tanky, with good support magics, but limited to pure close combat to deal damage.

The main thing is that all of them except cyberdwarf are probably squishy. A surprise attack could absolutely ruin their day, especially since Yu has Mind Charge and Power Charge to prep some sicknasty opening moves and Atom Smasher to inflict Fear and stun them. I think if he can get a good opening strike off, he wins - if not, the QCDs have a solid variety of moves, tons of healing and good debuffs to beat him down with.
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initial gut says Charles and the Barklettes
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Also I continue to wish Yu was as he appears in Arena, if only because all of the Persona characters get a slight age up/plot power boost. Just the difference between Yu being further along the timeline
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He does get that experience powerup here. Persona 4 includes The Golden, and the epilogue of Golden happens after Arena IIRC. If I'm wrong, we'll fix his writeup going forward to specify he's as he appears in Arena though.
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Barkley
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Barkley

Seems like a stomp.
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Writeup doesn't say anything about The Golden though. It's just Persona 4 (a different game than P4 Golden), which wouldn't give Yu the time jump

Pedantic, yes, but P4 has a stupid timeline where they went Step 1 -> Step 2, then rejiggered things so it went Step 1 -> Step 3 -> Step 2
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DeathChicken posted...

Writeup doesn't say anything about The Golden though. It's just Persona 4 (a different game than P4 Golden), which wouldn't give Yu the time jump

Pedantic, yes, but P4 has a stupid timeline where they went Step 1 -> Step 2, then rejiggered things so it went Step 1 -> Step 3 -> Step 2

Yeah, that's fair and we can clarify that in the future. Good point, DC.
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Yu

There's just nothing on the scale of a persona enemy in Barkley, and Yu's Megidolaon allows him to ignore pretty much any and all buffs. Size of the terrain means that Yu's getting Heat Riser up, which is a buff to attack, defense, and accuraccy/evasion all at the same time. The only real immediate counter is the Snail Zauber, which requires Balithos to open with debuffs rather than offensive magic, which means the only real thing that can out-range Yu is Hoopz's guns. Seeing as it's a corridor, if the Quad City DJ's bunch together, they're getting AoE'd to Hell. If they do not, then Yu picks them off one by one, as he's significantly stronger than any individual member.

I'd need to see any sort of strategic coherence from the DJ's, but as I recall, Barkley is a very "fuck it" character in Shut Up And Jam Gaiden. Without a deliberate strategy, I don't see Yu not just opening with AoE, tanking an initial barrage, and at least killing Cyberdwarf and Hoopz, then healing up and taking out Barkley and Balithos.
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Cyberdwarf I think can actually tank a Megidolaon, myself. The rest though, yyyyyeah no. Hoopz especially super needs to not get hit to not die messily, because he's just a kid. I think ironically, he's the second most survivable member of the DJs here though - Balthios and Charles are less mobile than him and less likely to dodge, which matters a lot when I don't see them being able to take a Megidolaon to the face and keep trucking.

Also - I will say that I think Shadow Barkley is a persona tier enemy. Dude has decent hype, two forms, and is, well, basically a Persona boss. This said, most every other enemy probably doesn't compare I think. So it depends on how much you respect this guy whether the DJs can handle Yu that well or not:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/a/a7/Shadow_barkley_boss.png/revision/latest?cb=20170612141611
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/hoopz-barkley-saga/images/8/87/T-rex_barkley.png/revision/latest?cb=20140705214617
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Can Cyberdwarf tank a Megidolaon? Yeah, probably.

Can Cyberdwarf tank a Mind Charged, Heat Riser'd Megidolaon? Uhh...

Yu.
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I actually don't think Heat Riser applies here because it fades away at the end of three turns. IIRC, neither Magatsu Izanagi nor Kohryu have Invigorate, so just chaincasting the buff will not work. I think Mind Charge has no set duration though? So that one could absolutely work, and whether Cyberdwarf can tank a 250% Megidolaon is...interesting. Man, this match is kinda tricky for me. Lots of permutations I can see.
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Yeah I have never bought this trash about long term buffs applying to Persona characters.

If it were possible it would be a part of the game.
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Eddv posted...

Yeah I have never bought this trash about long term buffs applying to Persona characters.

If it were possible it would be a part of the game.

I think it's fair to give that to Mind Charge. I wouldn't give it to any other buff though.
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How much stock are we putting into Balthios's fights against Master Chief and Kratos? Because he soloed both of them.
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Mewtwo59 posted...

How much stock are we putting into Balthios's fights against Master Chief and Kratos? Because he soloed both of them.

I personally ignore them because they're gag fights, but if you think he's That Good (TM) by all means vote accordingly.
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The thing about Heat Riser is that the player is told when it wears off, so it's pretty easy for Yu to realize it's gone and reapply.

The only way I see the Quad City DJ's winning is through SP stalling Yu to death, which I feel is possible, but not overly likely given the strategic mind of Barkley.

T-Rex Barkley is fair, but they also fight the vengeful spirit of Bill Cosby. Bill Cosby is not effective against males.
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So after thinking about it a lot...Barkley and the DJs.

Here's my thinking: If Yu gets the sneak attack, he absolutely wins clean. He's much stronger than any of the DJs, Mind Charge and Power Charge make him even dumber, and he's basically a two-man team because he can fight alongside his Persona and control his enemies. The question to me is if he will get the sneak attack using the terrain advantage...and I think there's one factor that keeps the ambush from happening.

...Yeah, you guessed it: The music. Reach Out to the Jam explicitly pumps the mercs up for combat a lot, as per the bold text. I put it in there because it was a cute ability on Charles' build in Ultimate Challenges, but it actually matters a lot here. It's hard to feel like hiding like a coward and ambushing when you hear NOW I FACE OUT, I HOLD OUT, I REACH OUT TO THE TRUTH on loop. It's too hype. I think it's more likely Yu decides to manmode this, which goes poorly for him - he can probaby KO at least a couple of the DJs, but they can apply boss-killing tactics to him and take him down as a team. It's close, but I think the DJs can win this one.
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I'm going to go with Barkley

I've never been too high on human Persona character durability due to a certain scene in P3, so I don't think Yu can last very long against the four of them, especially if Hoopz gets a couple good shots off.

Also Balthios beat Master Chief and Kratos, and this game is canon. /s
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slam jam
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Smt4a Flynn SOLOS though
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Mewtwo59 posted...

I've never been too high on human Persona character durability due to a certain scene in P3

Isn't that due to that being in a no-persona situation? Pretty sure Arena and the anime codify it as, at least, taking a big buff as the persona takes the damage due to soul shit.

I mean it's fair, but it's also like saying Squall gets one-shotted if you cast Ice on him really really good; an isolated example compared to everything else being scaled up.
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The Ice example isn't a super great one because the Ice Strike Edea casts is literally as powerful as Ultimecia's signature technique, Apocalypse, which chunks even 255 MDEF characters for like, 6k HP out of 9999 and can oneshot you if you didn't do a solid bit of grinding and junctioning. In game mechanic terms, it's like eating two ultimas to the face, for a bit of context. The fact a noobish Squall that is hypothetically not supposed to be at full power eats a spell that strong and doesn't die is actually a durability feat, IMO. Gives you an idea of how much beefier he could be with a strong GF and junctions.

This said, yeah, it's well established that the reason Shinji dies is because he's inhibiting his persona. Personas act as an ablative armor layer for their characters otherwise if you can invoke them.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPHVNMefUT0" data-time="
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Oh really? Learn something new every day. Nice.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Eddv posted...

Yeah I have never bought this trash about long term buffs applying to Persona characters.

If it were possible it would be a part of the game.

I think it's fair to give that to Mind Charge. I wouldn't give it to any other buff though.

I don't. That shit doesnt carry over battle to battle either.

Also yeah the Persona users are pretty explicitly just normal ass humans channeling powers that are only usable in the quasi reality they function in.

While it would be FFD smash levels of unfun to go "lol powerless" I do buy into this notion that this makes persona users glass cannons in ways that say Flynn or Raidou are not.
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I mean, we treat them as having persona usage. To me this means any fight they partake in should be treated as if it took place in the shadow reality, because the alternative is randomly nerfing them.
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I see this as favorable to Barkley and company at least 60-40.

Opening with is a bogard strategy that might work if the crew were cornered, and at worst, causes the arena to crash down on everyone. Which I don't really see happening; the crew's too fast and nimble.

I mean even somee moderately complex ball tactics will have Yu way too spaced out to make finishing blows without hurting himself . If Yu lights up I don't take Barkley as the type to just...stand there and eat it.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

I mean, we treat them as having persona usage. To me this means any fight they partake in should be treated as if it took place in the shadow reality, because the alternative is randomly nerfing them.

Hard disagree.

Even within the shadow realm they are generally presented as being sort of amateur weapon users (see: Junpei, Kanji)

Against actually competent opposition I don't respect their weapon play or durability at all.
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Eddv posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I mean, we treat them as having persona usage. To me this means any fight they partake in should be treated as if it took place in the shadow reality, because the alternative is randomly nerfing them.

Hard disagree.

Even within the shadow realm they are generally presented as being sort of amateur weapon users (see: Junpei, Kanji)

Against actually competent opposition I don't respect their weapon play or durability at all.

One can disrespect weapon skills sure, but durability is based on the personas in the shadow world. It's not human and shouldn't be treated as such.
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Based on Akihiko's showings in Arena, I'd bring pretty much all persona users up to good levels. Kanji's able to fight him to a well-showing canon loss despite having the strategic prowess of "hit it with a chair" and "hit it with a chair, but harder". Meanwhile Akihiko has boxing, police, and special ops training and can anticipate bullet fire without any persona shenanigans.

Personas account for a LOT and make up for a significant number of shortcomings that are not "lolCaptainFalcon". Unless we need to add a passive that allows them to function as they do in the TV World/Dark Hour/Metaverse added to each characters' write-up.
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If that'd help, I'm game for it. Thoughts everyone?
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Persona people are inherently durable. Not super durable, but above the standard human level

Problem with this match is that I don't think the Barkley crew (outside of Hoopz) are normal humans...or robots...either, and while Yu has a lot more firepower he's also outnumbered by a lot.
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I'm way late but I would've ultimately gone with the Barklettes, but not by a big gap
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lets get Medea and Raiden vs YHVH (smt) now

rule breaka
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