Current Events > As if Ticketmaster wasn't scummy enough, now they're hiring 'pro' scalpers

(+) Yeah! (+)

fenderbender321 posted...

uwnim posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

Scalping certainly results in some consumers paying higher prices than they otherwise would. But in exchange for high prices, consumers can get the tickets they want, when they want them, without waiting in line or competing to be among the first to buy them online at a given time. Opponents mistakenly conclude that high prices are the fault of scalpers, when in fact prices are high because of a large demand and a limited supply.

This claim requires information that they fail to provide. How long would it take for the tickets to sell out if scalpers weren't buying them? If it takes a reasonable amount of time, then we are back to scalpers existing to solve a problem caused by scalpers.
fenderbender321 posted...

Scalping benefits the scalper and the buyer, by getting tickets to whomever values them most highly. If someone decides at the last minute to attend a play, a concert or a game, they can find tickets at some price. Without scalpers, some people who value the event highly would be unable to buy tickets for seats of the quality they desire.

This happens even without scalpers because you also have people who find out they can't go to the event. Secondary markets exist with or without scalpers.

fenderbender321 posted...

Scalping can also benefit ticket producers the sports teams or performing artists who supply tickets in two ways. First, it enables them to earn ticket revenue through face-value prices long before an event, while scalpers bear the risk that demand and prices might fall below the price they paid. Second, because of scalpers, the initial demand for tickets may be higher than it would otherwise be, enabling ticket producers to charge more.

This only works if scalpers heavily buy into an event they shouldn't have. Otherwise it has no effect of ticket producers.

fenderbender321 posted...

Ticket producers incur expenses long before an event, such as the cost of renting an arena. They can keep their selling costs down by selling all or most tickets quickly rather than over an extended period of time. By buying tickets when they first become available and holding an inventory to sell at times that are most convenient to consumers, scalpers connect buyers with sellers and benefit both. They act as brokers, and the difference between the price they pay and the price they receive is their reward for doing this. The more scalpers compete to buy and resell tickets, the lower the markup that each will earn.

This fails to establish any reasons why scalpers are good. There are places that have all ticket sales go through a third party agency so they have no additional costs if tickets sales go on for months instead of minutes.

Please don't format your points like this. It makes responding to it way too difficult.

Sorry, but it makes responding to particular points easier so I won't stop. There's a clear difference between my post and yours, so it is very readable.
---

If Fender truly believes scalping is good for the economy then I have a proposition he literally can't refuse because it would improve the economy.

@fenderbender321 any time you want to buy anything I'll buy it for you but you have to pay me 2x back in scalping fees.
---

I'm providing you a service where you get to buy any item you want at scalping value.
---

If you believing scalping is so good for the economy you should have no issues buying everything through me as if I were a scalper.
---

Conflict posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

IE with scalping, tickets sell out in like 10 minutes. Without, they sell out in a few hours.

That's a MASSIVE difference

and the scalpers provide a massive convenience

now if i decide a week after i want to go that event i'm more than likely guaranteed
---

lifeamovie posted...

Conflict posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

IE with scalping, tickets sell out in like 10 minutes. Without, they sell out in a few hours.

That's a MASSIVE difference

and the scalpers provide a massive convenience

now if i decide a week after i want to go that event i'm more than likely guaranteed

I'll offer you the same deal as fender. Tell me items you want and I'll get them for you. I just ask for 2x the cost as a fee. No longer will you go into a store to find they are all out of the item you want.
---

Tmaster148 posted...

I'll offer you the same deal as fender. Tell me items you want and I'll get them for you. I just ask for 2x the cost as a fee. No longer will you go into a store to find they are all out of the item you want.

impractical

you can't scalp store goods

i'll just go to a cheaper store
---

lifeamovie posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

I'll offer you the same deal as fender. Tell me items you want and I'll get them for you. I just ask for 2x the cost as a fee. No longer will you go into a store to find they are all out of the item you want.

impractical

you can't scalp store goods

i'll just go to a cheaper store

But we're not talking about that. You think buying a ticket from a 3rd party is more convenient for more cost. I'm just offering you the same experience for everything else.
---

Conflict posted...

A massive convenience! Now I get to buy tickets for $150 instead of $40, and the chances of you being able to get a concert ticket aren't even remotely made easier!

so i can never go unless i buy first? that would be terrible, why not sell it to people like me that really wanna go?

Tmaster148 posted...

But we're not talking about that. You think buying a ticket from a 3rd party is more convenient for more cost. I'm just offering you the same experience for everything else.

you really don't understand scalping at all

store goods are available all day, you have no idea when i want to buy, not even close to the same dynamic
---

I understand that you have reading issues but I literally said you would tell me you want.

But I see when someone offers you a scalping experience you no longer think it's a good deal. So I guess you really don't think scalping is as good as you claim.
---

its not a scalping experience

i'll just buy it from someone else for a fair price
---

Conflict posted...

lifeamovie posted...

so i can never go unless i buy first? that would be terrible, why not sell it to people like me that really wanna go?

Are you coming up with the dumbest possible posts to try and get me suspended again

The access to tickets isn't "made easier" by scalpers existing at all. Tickets sell out faster because of scalpers who aren't interested in the event, and the price for tickets available afterwards become way higher. This makes it more difficult to acquire tickets; not easier.

This isn't rocket science.

slightly faster

put a window on how fast you think tickets will sell out

if i miss that window i can never go?
---

lifeamovie posted...

its not a scalping experience

i'll just buy it from someone else for a fair price

Now you don't even know what experience means.

You were all about paying more from a 3rd party when it came to tickets. So it's odd you'll decline the same thing for literally anything else.
---

fenderbender321 posted...

But now if I want to respond to your responses that were responding to mine, I have to start counting quotes and blocks and all that shit just to get it formatted correctly. I don't have time for that bullshit. So let's just say that I win since I have sources to back up my claims.

Nah, let's say I won. I made an argument against your source and you decided to not support it due to it being too much work.

fenderbender321 posted...

The sunk cost fallacy I just brought up as I was talking about my favorite case studies in economics. It wasn't related to the topic at hand.

Those probably aren't the best examples for someone to use, tbh. Too easy for people to have been in situations and made the decision to continue for other reasons. I was sick, but they are my favorite band and not seeing them would suck so I went anyways. I didn't want to leave the movie because I might disturb those around me who seemed to enjoy it. I ate the food because the other option was to not eat. Makes it harder for people to see how it would be an example of sunk-cost.
---

It's really telling that all the pro-scalpers are against spending more money on a product they could have brought from the source. I offered them that and they declined.

It's like they don't actually believe what they are posting.
---

fenderbender321 posted...

And what if they put on a restriction for only 1 ticket per person? What if my friend wants to go but is working while tickets are on sale? What if I have 2 kids who want to go and thus aren't old enough to buy them?

Ticket restrictions do exist. Tends to be 2-8 tickets per purchaser. Thing is Ticketmaster won't enforce their Terms of Service against scalpers even when they know they are using multiple accounts to get around the purchase limits because they are the ones who actually do benefit from scalping. They get to obtain ticket fees twice if people have to buy from a scalper instead of directly from them.
---

fenderbender321 posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

It's really telling that all the pro-scalpers are against spending more money on a product they could have brought from the source. I offered them that and they declined.

It's like they don't actually believe what they are posting.

I would gladly pay more for products I can get elsewhere if there is some sort of convenience that goes with it. Why do you think Uber Eats is in business?

Lol if you think Uber Eats is remotely like scalping.
---

Tickets don't actually normally sell out immediately. Not everyone wants to buy day 1. That's kind of why scalpers have tickets on sale afterwards.

But it's pretty clear you have no experience leaving your basement.
---

A lot of concerts I've been to still have tickets available to buy at the venue. It's costs more to buy day of but they are still there.
---

You think Nintendo does this with Amiibos and consoles
---

Conflict posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

Conflict posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

Tickets don't actually normally sell out immediately. Not everyone wants to buy day 1. That's kind of why scalpers have tickets on sale afterwards.

But it's pretty clear you have no experience leaving your basement.

This too

Hell I live in FL and I've bought all types of concert tickets well after the initial sale date (including bands like Green Day and Metallica)

RHCP was the only example I can think of that actually sold out super quick

Then there probably weren't any professional scalpers scooping those tickets up.

Wow imagine that

It's significantly easier to buy tickets at regular MSRP over a long period of time when there are no scalpers

Congratulations you finally learned why scalping is not beneficial to anybody but the person doing it

Well, the person doing it and now Ticketmaster benefits.
---

fenderbender321 posted...

Any other questions?

3

2

1

....

Okay. That concludes today's lesson. PM me if you have any questions.

TC, go ahead and lock this thread.

Lol.
---

The logic is that allocative effeciency is increased by scalping, which is true, but in turn the resulting rent seeking offsets the benefit.

Also, many of the arguments from economists over this subject are from before the prelevance of bots.
---

fenderbender321 posted...

Scalpers aren't the only people who can use bots, though.

What?
---