Current Events > The democratic process died when we stopped having meaningful civil debate

(+) Yeah! (+)

Granted. It was never perfect, but at least we could argue over stuff like debt, foreign policy, etc without assuming that our political opposition were truly evil.

Now we live in an era where neither side is even willing to befriend the other. That seems like the antithesis of what was intended. We've lost sight of the fact that we're all Americans.

It's ok to disagree with someone else. There's no reason to take joy out of "sticking it to the other side".

It's pretty ridiculous but what can you do? Everyone's always outraged about something.
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This is why I will forever advocate that debate should be a mandatory high school class.
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It ended when corporations amassed so much wealth they bought the government.
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Stop pretending that this has never happened before in this country. It's not even close to being as it has been in previous eras
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Only for those who assume "there's only my side and the opposite extreme, nothing else exists".
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You don't want meaningful debate. You just made a topic after spewing shit for days telling people "it's just a video games message board!"
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Coffee's fanclub is starting to rival The Admiral's in size

NeverOffended posted...

Coffee's fanclub is starting to rival The Admiral's in size

Yeah that's an apt comparison. The only difference is she pretends to be in the middle.
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i think its clear many people have a crush on her and think this is flirting
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s0nicfan posted...

This is why I will forever advocate that debate should be a mandatory high school class.

I think that should be a new mandatory curriculum along with being able to argue for the other side via "Devil's Advocate" and researching all sides of a argument.

Also learning how to do real research and how to see a problem from all sides along with teaching how to logically think, analyze, and evaluate.

Then learn how to negotiate, solve and create solutions that will be as amenable to all sides as possible.

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

It ended when corporations amassed so much wealth they bought the government.

First step is to end Corporations / Organizations / Entities from having Legal personhood rights to allow donations to campaign funds. Then we can start with countless other political reforms.

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Stop pretending that this has never happened before in this country. It's not even close to being as it has been in previous eras

It's not to this scale. This scale of enmity between multiple sides is unprecedented in US history.
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hey tc what happened to you never discussing politics again @Coffeebeanz
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The lack of civic debate is merely a symptom of the problems that have ailed humans throughout our history, the cause is low emotional intelligence
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KamenRiderBlade posted...
The Great Muta 22 posted...

Stop pretending that this has never happened before in this country. It's not even close to being as it has been in previous eras

It's not to this scale. This scale of enmity between multiple sides is unprecedented in US history.

I didn't realize we were in the midst of a civil war.

You're very hypocritical TC.

In one of the Kavacampervaner topics you did a whole rant about how Democrats already made up their mind and were full of excuses, ignored valid points people made, lied about what people were saying, made silly fallicies, insulted them and discussed nothing while generally being abrhasive, dishonest and hostile.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/77066160

All the while people around you were talking to each other and trying to talk to you. While you just dismissed and degraded them because you didn't like what they were saying.

The one who demonstrated a lack of willingess to civil dicussion was you.

Now you're complaining that hypothetical other people do the same thing and it sucks? Foolish
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ElatedVenusaur posted...

I didn't realize we were in the midst of a civil war.

Ok, you're right, 2nd highest level.

And highest in this past century.
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ledbowman posted...

You don't want meaningful debate. You just made a topic after spewing shit for days telling people "it's just a video games message board!"

Lol neither do you. You just start baiting threads to shit post and stir the pot. Have a tiny bit of self awareness before you climb on your soapbox to chastise people for the same shit youre guilty of.

Thanks for actually proving TCs point.
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When exactly did we have meaningful civil debate?
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thanosibe posted...

ledbowman posted...

You don't want meaningful debate. You just made a topic after spewing shit for days telling people "it's just a video games message board!"

Lol neither do you. You just start baiting threads to shit post and stir the pot. Have a tiny bit of self awareness before you climb on your soapbox to chastise people for the same shit youre guilty of.

Thanks for actually proving TCs point.

Where
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lol
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go back to your dumb phone gimmick. your political topics are somehow even more cringeworthy.
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Reminder that Scalia and Ginsburg were good friends despite being ideological opposites. These days people will block you on social media if you don't agree with all of their political opinions.
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AlephZero posted...

Reminder that Scalia and Ginsburg were good friends despite being ideological opposites.

It's a big club, and you ain't in it.
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Antifar posted...

It's a big club, and you ain't in it.

You mean anybody that doesn't agree with you 100% politically is auto-banned from your club.

That's how it works on Social Media in this day & age.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

You mean anybody that doesn't agree with you 100% politically is auto-banned from your club.

No, I mean that the fealty shown by party elites towards each other in spite of the fact that they ostensibly recognize their opponents' policies as deeply harmful is not something we should aspire to.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

It's not to this scale. This scale of enmity between multiple sides is unprecedented in US history.

It's really not. The 60s were far worse
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

It's not to this scale. This scale of enmity between multiple sides is unprecedented in US history.

It's really not. The 60s were far worse

Either 60s!
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Antifar posted...

Either 60s!

Other than the Civil War.

The 1960's didn't have the 2 parties bicker at this level.

We're definitely have more of a divided political party in our Congress / Capitol Hill.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

The 1960's didn't have the 2 parties bicker at this level.

The 60s saw Senators putting on 24 hour filibusters.
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fuck the decade, I'd say 1968 alone was worse than 2016 - onwards
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"Dead kids! How did we ever manage to give the Democrats a weapon like that?" - movie Nixon
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Antifar posted...

Either 60s!

Other than the Civil War.

The 1960's didn't have the 2 parties bicker at this level.

We're definitely have more of a divided political party in our Congress / Capitol Hill.

Perhaps, but you also had far more civil disobedience and outrage. Not to mention countless other decades facing similar challenges. It's more negative than, say, the last 20 years(maybe...2014 was rough), but to say it's worse than ever is crazy
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The United States has almost always exhibited a degree of political polarization
https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4273163/polar_housesenate_difference.png
This political polarization is largely related to economic pressures resulting from income inequality, which drives citizens to choose more ideologically extreme options. This chart
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Share_top_1_percent.jpg
shows the share of pretax household income received by the top 1%, top 0.1% and top 0.01% in the US. As we can see, the level of income inequality mirrors the level of political polarization.

If you look to the beginning of the charts at the late 1800s and early 1900s respectively, levels of political polarization and income inequality were high. This period of time was known for its lack of substantive regulation regarding business structure and labor laws in the face of massive industrial growth. This subjected harsh working conditions onto the US's working poor and allowed untold riches to its elite.
This, in turn with an often jingoistic and dis-informative press, radicalized the two flanks of the population until progressive reforms were enacted under Theodore Roosevelt. Polarization rose slightly in WWI and the year after due to the First Red Scare, but dropped under the Roaring Twenties and further when Franklin Delano Roosevelt enacted the New Deal in the Depression, to further reduce income inequality.

Any of this sound familiar? Political polarization will begin to drop when the United States begins to regulate its businesses again in a way reduces economic pressures on the 99.9%. This would be through manners similar to those enacted by both Roosevelts, which would be to break up the big banks and giant media conglomerates like Comcast and Disney, massively increase taxes on the .01%, and end all tax loopholes. It'd also require heavy expansions to the welfare state (Single-payer, more education funding, reintroduction of AFDC, etc.) nothing socialistic, but enough to make sure every American's needs are met. People tend to be less politically radical when their economy is functioning correctly and their needs are met. Until this happens, it will only get worse from here.

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Antifar posted...

The 60s saw Senators putting on 24 hour filibusters.

We also had that recently from the Democrats in the past few years for certain issues.
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Perhaps, but you also had far more civil disobedience and outrage. Not to mention countless other decades facing similar challenges. It's more negative than, say, the last 20 years(maybe...2014 was rough), but to say it's worse than ever is crazy

Maybe I'm not OLD enough to remember that far.

Perhaps you remember it better because of your age.
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"The sky is falling"
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Spoken like someone who doesn't know how good it feels to pwn a lib
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Hinakuluiau posted...

The United States has almost always exhibited a degree of political polarization
https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4273163/polar_housesenate_difference.png
This political polarization is largely related to economic pressures resulting from income inequality, which drives citizens to choose more ideologically extreme options. This chart
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Share_top_1_percent.jpg
shows the share of pretax household income received by the top 1%, top 0.1% and top 0.01% in the US. As we can see, the level of income inequality mirrors the level of political polarization.

If you look to the beginning of the charts at the late 1800s and early 1900s respectively, levels of political polarization and income inequality were high. This period of time was known for its lack of substantive regulation regarding business structure and labor laws in the face of massive industrial growth. This subjected harsh working conditions onto the US's working poor and allowed untold riches to its elite.
This, in turn with an often jingoistic and dis-informative press, radicalized the two flanks of the population until progressive reforms were enacted under Theodore Roosevelt. Polarization rose slightly in WWI and the year after due to the First Red Scare, but dropped under the Roaring Twenties and further when Franklin Delano Roosevelt enacted the New Deal in the Depression, to further reduce income inequality.

Any of this sound familiar? Political polarization will begin to drop when the United States begins to regulate its businesses again in a way reduces economic pressures on the 99.9%. This would be through manners similar to those enacted by both Roosevelts, which would be to break up the big banks and giant media conglomerates like Comcast and Disney, massively increase taxes on the .01%, and end all tax loopholes. It'd also require heavy expansions to the welfare state (Single-payer, more education funding, reintroduction of AFDC, etc.) nothing socialistic, but enough to make sure every American's needs are met. People tend to be less politically radical when their economy is functioning correctly and their needs are met. Until this happens, it will only get worse from here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM" data-time="

Remember this video?

If you brake down the categories in Whole Number 1% increments, I'd make the distribution look like a stereo typical Tent Circus with a gradual slope that flattens out into a shallow triangle at the center.

I'd make America Middle Class & Upper Middle Class and minimize the edges of the % bars.
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A brief history of civil debate in America
1776-1919: basically nobody could vote; the democratic process was a sham
1856: the caning of Sumner
1861-1865: Literal civil war
1878-1960s: black people excluded from the democratic process throughout the South due to widescale political violence
1880s-1940s: police, national guard, Pinkertons, etc. regularly used to suppress strikes through force
Late 1910s: Anti-war activists forcibly cracked down upon by the government
Late 1940s: Left-wing activists cracked down upon by the government/private institutions
1960s: A decade of riots that featured several political leaders getting assassinated
1970s-1990s: maybe some civility in here, if you ignore the war on drugs and mass incarceration? Also growth stopped being felt by the majority of people.
2000: a partisan Supreme Court stops a recall to award the presidency to the guy who lost the popular vote
2001-2005: bipartisan agreement on the establishment of a massive surveillance state and multiple foreign wars which haven't stopped
2008: Barack Obama wins the presidency, his future successor starts telling everyone that he isn't born in the country.
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So the Trump era has seen more civility than most others? See, people underestimate the poor guy, dude just wants to do good bruh
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Perhaps, but you also had far more civil disobedience and outrage. Not to mention countless other decades facing similar challenges. It's more negative than, say, the last 20 years(maybe...2014 was rough), but to say it's worse than ever is crazy

Maybe I'm not OLD enough to remember that far.

Perhaps you remember it better because of your age.

Was this supposed to be an insult? I'll be 30 this November. It's less that you're too young and more that you likely haven't done the research into the history of our nation that I have and thus don't know as much about the subject as myself. Which is fine, by the way, as history isn't for everyone.

Still doesn't change what I said at all
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Things were much more civil when I paid less attention to politics.
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