Current Events > Republican introduces bill to end federal tax credit for EVs and tax them more

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://electrek.co/2018/10/10/republican-bill-end-federal-tax-credit-for-electric-car/

What a fucking awful human being.
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Both sides are the same though
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will not pass
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Hm, what's California's response
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Damn_Underscore posted...

will not pass

Wheres Gandalf
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Doom_Art posted...

Both sides are the same though

Reward people/groups who support me, punish those who don't. Sounds like pretty much every politician, ever.
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Doom_Art posted...

Both sides are the same though

But the bill is backed by Democrats in a Congress and Senate controlled by Republicans, which makes this new bill introduced by Barrasso much more likely to pass.

Wow you're right.

id support requiring them to pay some additional tax since they are not contributing much to road maintenance if they use plug in mode most of the time.
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Better get those Model 3s now boys
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Annihilated posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Both sides are the same though

But the bill is backed by Democrats in a Congress and Senate controlled by Republicans, which makes this new bill introduced by Barrasso much more likely to pass.

Wow you're right.

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Annihilated posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Both sides are the same though

But the bill is backed by Democrats in a Congress and Senate controlled by Republicans, which makes this new bill introduced by Barrasso much more likely to pass.

Wow you're right.

Well Elon Musk isn't exactly on either side.
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Annihilated posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Both sides are the same though

But the bill is backed by Democrats in a Congress and Senate controlled by Republicans, which makes this new bill introduced by Barrasso much more likely to pass.

Wow you're right.

lmao
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I love how nowhere is there any record of who the Democrat(s) are. Doesnt matter since this is a Republican bill put forth for the umpteenth time.

And lets not forget these are the people who never met a tax they liked.
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Yes, instead of taxing Musk or his corporation, let's take money from people who have none instead.
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divot1338 posted...

I love how nowhere is there any record of who the Democrat(s) are. Doesnt matter since this is a Republican bill put forth for the umpteenth time.

And lets not forget these are the people who never met a tax they liked.

indeed, none have been named. the same measure was removed from last year's reconciliation bill, as well.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Yes, instead of taxing Musk or his corporation, let's take money from people who have none instead.

If they have a Tesla, they have money. That isn't the problem with this law.
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httpgrandmaster posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

Yes, instead of taxing Musk or his corporation, let's take money from people who have none instead.

If they have a Tesla, they have money. That isn't the problem with this law.

If they have a Leaf they don't. Tesla aren't the only electric cars in existence.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

If they have a Leaf they don't. Tesla aren't the only electric cars in existence.

to be fair, only used leafs are cheap.
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Darkman124 posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

If they have a Leaf they don't. Tesla aren't the only electric cars in existence.

to be fair, only used leafs are cheap.

I suppose.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Darkman124 posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

If they have a Leaf they don't. Tesla aren't the only electric cars in existence.

to be fair, only used leafs are cheap.

I suppose.

remember that this is a credit for new car sales only.
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Darkman124 posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

Darkman124 posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

If they have a Leaf they don't. Tesla aren't the only electric cars in existence.

to be fair, only used leafs are cheap.

I suppose.

remember that this is a credit for new car sales only.

Yeah. Still affects people who don't know better than to buy new though.
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So the public doesn't have to subsidize people's EV purchases any more? Awesome. Let people pay for their own electric cars. Funny how demanding people pay their fair share suddenly falls out of vogue when it's a Republican proposing it.
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Fuparulez posted...

So the public doesn't have to subsidize people's EV purchases any more? Awesome. Let people pay for their own electric cars. Funny how demanding people pay their fair share suddenly falls out of vogue when it's a Republican proposing it.

Because EVs are better for the environment than gas cars.

Shocker that Republicans dont like EVs considering they dont like the environment. Oh wait, its not shocking.
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KILBOTz posted...

id support requiring them to pay some additional tax since they are not contributing much to road maintenance if they use plug in mode most of the time.

Strongly agree. Gas tax needs to go up, but rich folks shouldn't be able to dodge it. Never made sense to give it a tax credit
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Balrog0 posted...

KILBOTz posted...

id support requiring them to pay some additional tax since they are not contributing much to road maintenance if they use plug in mode most of the time.

Strongly agree. Gas tax needs to go up, but rich folks shouldn't be able to dodge it. Never made sense to give it a tax credit

You're basically demonstrating what I've always said about government never being willing or prepared to do with less taxes, only ever more.
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KILBOTz posted...

id support requiring them to pay some additional tax since they are not contributing much to road maintenance if they use plug in mode most of the time.

i'm all for that, especially if they fix the roads around here. potholes are everywhere :(.
those damage cars.
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httpgrandmaster posted...

You're basically demonstrating what I've always said about government never being willing or prepared to do with less taxes, only ever more.

I don't see how that follows at all. What I'm actually saying is we underfund infrastructure in this country, which is a fact that anyone who has looked into the issue will tell you. Just look at gas taxes vs inflation, it isn't rocket science.

But even if you disagree we should raise the fuel taxes to adequately fund infrastructure, how does that mean we should give people tax credits for electric vehicles? It doesn't make sense to give favorable tax treatment to something that causes wear and tear on our infrastructure, especially since it is already exempted from the main way we raise revenue to fund that infrastructure (i.e., fuel taxes)

Seems pretty straight forward to me.
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Balrog0 posted...

But even if you disagree we should raise the fuel taxes to adequately fund infrastructure, how does that mean we should give people tax credits for electric vehicles? It doesn't make sense to give favorable tax treatment to something that causes wear and tear on our infrastructure, especially since it is already exempted from the main way we raise revenue to fund that infrastructure (i.e., fuel taxes)

The reason would be to incentivize behaviors that would help avert climate change, which in turn might impose even greater costs to our transportation network.
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While we're at it, let's tax bicycles, they don't contribute to the fuel tax either, fucking welfare riders enjoying the roads that good, honest, hardworking coal rollers paid for!
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Darkman124 posted...

The reason would be to incentivize behaviors that would help avert climate change, which in turn might impose even greater costs to our transportation network.

yeah but that's silly if viewed with any scrutiny at all imho
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

While we're at it, let's tax bicycles, they don't contribute to the fuel tax either, fucking welfare riders enjoying the roads that good, honest, hardworking coal rollers paid for!

To respond to you seriously, I'd be fine with charging folks to use sidewalks and bikes in proportion to the damage they cause to them if we did the same with cars. But you would find quickly that bicyclists and pedestrians already pay a hugely disproportionate share of infrastructure costs, because low gas taxes cause most roads to be funded out of general revenues in most states, or through bond issuance which is foregone revenue

And that's why your post is not intelligent.


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Balrog0 posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

While we're at it, let's tax bicycles, they don't contribute to the fuel tax either, fucking welfare riders enjoying the roads that good, honest, hardworking coal rollers paid for!

To respond to you seriously, I'd be fine with charging folks to use sidewalks and bikes in proportion to the damage they cause to them if we did the same with cars. But you would find quickly that bicyclists and pedestrians already pay a hugely disproportionate share of infrastructure costs, because low gas taxes cause most roads to be funded out of general revenues in most states, or through bond issuance which is foregone revenue

And that's why your post is not intelligent.

The message, then, is gas taxes should be higher. Not that we should be ending our social engineering of EVs to make up for them being too low.
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Balrog0 posted...

To respond to you seriously

Now why would you want to do that? It was obviously a joke and bunk, and I would hope that everyone already knew that cyclists and pedestrians contribute more and cause less wear.
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Darkman124 posted...

The message, then, is gas taxes should be higher. Not that we should be ending our social engineering of EVs to make up for them being too low.

Nah, I disagree. It's about both equity and adequacy. Rich folks buy EVs, poor folks buy gas guzzlers.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Balrog0 posted...

To respond to you seriously

Now why would you want to do that? It was obviously a joke and bunk, and I would hope that everyone already knew that cyclists and pedestrians contribute more and cause less wear.

Because I spend too much time in city council meetings and have heard people say that and not be joking lol
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Balrog0 posted...

Nah, I disagree. It's about both equity and adequacy. Rich folks buy EVs, poor folks buy gas guzzlers.

Sure, but the long-term goal of the tax credit is to allow EVs to develop an economy of scale that makes them accessible to poor folks.

Meanwhile, the logical EV for a poor family is a 5 year old nissan leaf.
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Or we could end government waste of tax dollars ($60 billion in just Medicare fraud in 2015 alone) so that when the government's money tree starts returning slightly less money due to less fossil fuel being burned we aren't freaking out and starting to tax everything else.

Balrog's philosophy on taxation is not sustainable at all.
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what do you calculate the annual federal infrastructure waste to be since we're not talking about medicare here
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httpgrandmaster posted...

Or we could end government waste of tax dollars ($60 billion in just Medicare fraud in 2015 alone) so that when the government's money tree starts returning slightly less money due to less fossil fuel being burned we aren't freaking out and starting to tax everything else.

It doesn't get less money because we burn less fuel -- at least not primarily -- it is primarily because we haven't raised gas taxes to account for inflation. This is in contrast to, for example, the way the IRS uses inflation to calculate standard deductions and tax brackets.

I don't know why you always bring up that Medicare number, but like I said last time you did, if we adequately funded the IRS we would generate over twice that much in tax revenue that businesses owe but currently don't pay.

httpgrandmaster posted...

Balrog's philosophy on taxation is not sustainable at all.

My philosophy here is actually pretty textbook. Look up the benefits principle of taxation. Educate yourself.
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Balrog0 posted...

It doesn't get less money because we burn less fuel -- at least not primarily -- it is primarily because we haven't raised gas taxes to account for inflation. This is in contrast to, for example, the way the IRS uses inflation to calculate standard deductions and tax brackets.

i think this reduces the point a little too far. it's more that the price index of gas hasnt risen as fast as the price index of, say, the labor and materials required to repave a highway

in theory as a proportional tax it shouldnt have to be increased, if everything inflated at the same rate

but obv everything doesnt inflate at the same rate since crude prices are controlled artificially by producers to minimize the growth of competing energy sources
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Darkman124 posted...

i think this reduces the point a little too far. it's more that the price index of gas hasnt risen as fast as the price index of, say, the labor and materials required to repave a highway

in theory as a proportional tax it shouldnt have to be increased, if everything inflated at the same rate

but obv everything doesnt inflate at the same rate since crude prices are controlled artificially by producers to minimize the growth of competing energy sources

yeah that's fair
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