Board 8 > So Joker is completely boned, right?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I would wager that like 85% of Persona 5 fans don't know who Ren Amamiya is supposed to be, and he doesnt even get a pic with the Joker mask.
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yep he's doomed

thankfully it's only a 1 point match either way
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I thought this was going to be about the upcoming solo Joker movie.
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Persona has been getting more popular, but the characters dont seem like they would beat anybody other than fodder.

Joker? Boned?


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As someone that never played Persona 5, I don't understand how something like this can happen
Is there anything similar in another media franchise that maybe can help me understand?
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If the name is listed as Joker, I will feel better.
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Nanis23 posted...

As someone that never played Persona 5, I don't understand how something like this can happen
Is there anything similar in another media franchise that maybe can help me understand?

Which part are you trying to understand, for clarification?
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Nanis23 posted...

As someone that never played Persona 5, I don't understand how something like this can happen
Is there anything similar in another media franchise that maybe can help me understand?

Persona protagonists aren't given official names until later spinoffs or anime/manga/whatever adaptations make them necessary.
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Honestly, the problem goes all the way to Atlus deciding to use a "canon name" for Joker in the dancing game spinoff that has no plot. It's a lot more understandable for the P3 MC and Yu, because they don't really have anything they can be called in the cheerleading that isn't super stilted (nobody calls people "Leader", atlus), but Joker should have been spared.

(Also, the dancing game's not even out in English yet! DUBIOUS canonicity.)
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Nanis23 posted...

As someone that never played Persona 5, I don't understand how something like this can happen
Is there anything similar in another media franchise that maybe can help me understand?

Let's take Skyrim. The default protagonist can have any name but is simply referred to as Dragonborn by most people. Now imagine 2 years after the game's out, it randomly got a live action TV series where he's actually given a fixed name: James Russell. Now imagine if "James Russell" appears as the default name in a gameFAQs contest. A large number of Skyrim fanbase who never watched the TV series will have no clue who James Russell is.

This is made worse by the fact that Dragonborn has an iconic look with the whole horned helmet and all but SB completely ditches the look and goes with a more casual more generic look. The equivalent of using a picture of Clark Kent for Superman

So in the end, you end up with this character that Skyrim fans will have difficulty recognizing.
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squexa posted...

The equivalent of using a picture of Clark Kent for Superman

man this is pretty much the perfect analogy
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Nominate James Russel for Character Battle 11
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Like the name I get but googling pictures it seems the only difference between Ren and Joker is a masquerade type mask where it is super obvious they are the same character?

ShatteredElysium posted...

Like the name I get but googling pictures it seems the only difference between Ren and Joker is a masquerade type mask where it is super obvious they are the same character?

Style matters. To use the previous example, Clark Kent and Superman are obviously the same person, but Superman with Superman pics would do better than Clark Kent with Clark Kent pics.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Style matters.

Especially in a game that emphasizes it as heavily as P5.

I'd go so far as to say visually, Joker in casual clothes is actually fairly generic.

I dont even think it's easy to tell who Ren Amamiya is from just a closeup headshot like hell be getting. He doesnt have a distinctive look/face when he isn't Joker (which is the point).
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Reg posted...

I'd go so far as to say visually, Joker in casual clothes is actually fairly generic.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/p__/images/0/08/Ren_%28Normal%29.png/revision/latest?cb=20180124045837&path-prefix=protagonist

Based on the profile pic, that's what he's getting in his match. It's just totally unappealing even to me, and I like the guy. It's the most boring pic of Joker Allen could've chosen.
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LeonhartFour posted...

squexa posted...

The equivalent of using a picture of Clark Kent for Superman

man this is pretty much the perfect analogy

especially if you listed him as "Clark Kent" on the poll instead of "Superman"

I tried to think of superhero characters...but I can recognize their real names too
Obvious things like Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker, Tony Stark etc
Clark Kent being Superman is well known too
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Nanis23 posted...

I tried to think of superhero characters...but I can recognize their real names too
Obvious things like Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker, Tony Stark etc
Clark Kent being Superman is well known too

I mean yes more people would make the connection between the two

but all of those characters would underperform in a contest if you posted pics of them in "casual" clothing using their real names instead of their superhero aliases
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imagine Superman having a Clark Kent picture with glasses and a mullet from his 90s comic days
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Joker could look worse for the pic. I mean at least he doesnt have his nerd glasses on that make him look like anime Harry Potter

swordz9 posted...

Joker could look worse for the pic.

he really couldn't

the glasses would actually probably help make him more recognizable since he almost always wears them when he's not dressed up as Joker
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Keltiq posted...

Honestly, the problem goes all the way to Atlus deciding to use a "canon name" for Joker in the dancing game spinoff that has no plot. It's a lot more understandable for the P3 MC and Yu, because they don't really have anything they can be called in the cheerleading that isn't super stilted (nobody calls people "Leader", atlus), but Joker should have been spared.

(Also, the dancing game's not even out in English yet! DUBIOUS canonicity.)

OK yeah this sounds bad

squexa posted...

Nanis23 posted...

As someone that never played Persona 5, I don't understand how something like this can happen
Is there anything similar in another media franchise that maybe can help me understand?

Let's take Skyrim. The default protagonist can have any name but is simply referred to as Dragonborn by most people. Now imagine 2 years after the game's out, it randomly got a live action TV series where he's actually given a fixed name: James Russell. Now imagine if "James Russell" appears as the default name in a gameFAQs contest. A large number of Skyrim fanbase who never watched the TV series will have no clue who James Russell is.

This is made worse by the fact that Dragonborn has an iconic look with the whole horned helmet and all but SB completely ditches the look and goes with a more casual more generic look. The equivalent of using a picture of Clark Kent for Superman

So in the end, you end up with this character that Skyrim fans will have difficulty recognizing.

And this is even worse
lol
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I think the glasses make him look worse honestly. Phantom Thieves > casual without glasses > full blown nerd

Well, the name was first developed for the anime, so I imagine a lot of people became familiar with the name through that.

But it obviously wasn't as popular as the game itself.
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The nerd glasses in his not-Joker outfit are distinctive. I'd like his chances better with them on.
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actually is it too late to petition Allen to change anything
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Nanis23 posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

squexa posted...

The equivalent of using a picture of Clark Kent for Superman

man this is pretty much the perfect analogy

especially if you listed him as "Clark Kent" on the poll instead of "Superman"

I tried to think of superhero characters...but I can recognize their real names too
Obvious things like Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker, Tony Stark etc
Clark Kent being Superman is well known too

Yeah, this is why I went with the Skyrim analogy for the name part, because superheroes have well known fixed names. The issue is that I don't think the name Ren Amamiya even appeared until just a couple months ago when the anime aired.

Also, I don't think anyone's mentioned this, but to make things worse, he's given the name Akira Kurusu in the manga which came out before the anime and is what people referred to him as last year when the game came out.
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save us @SBAllen
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Has anyone directly messaged SBAllen yet? Like, does he understand the context here that Ren's never actually called that in Persona 5 itself while he is called Joker? As I've said in other topics, Persona is one of my favorite series and I had to check who both Yu and Ren were when looking over the bracket. Yu at least doesn't have an alternate name, but Ren is Joker.
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I would try, but I have Claire in my bracket and dont like Joker THAT much, so
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KamikazePotato posted...

I would try, but I have Claire in my bracket and dont like Joker THAT much, so

wow

the paulg is strong in you
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Nanis23 posted...

I tried to think of superhero characters...but I can recognize their real names too
Obvious things like Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker, Tony Stark etc
Clark Kent being Superman is well known too

Okay, think of it more like Donald Blake getting into the contest.

You know, this guy:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/d/dc/Donald_Blake_%28Earth-616%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090412194311

Or maybe Sigurd Jarlson:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/7/77/Sigurd_Jarlson_from_Thor_341.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110312203118

If you don't recognize him as either of those identities, you might recognize him in his superhero identity instead:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/c/cd/Mighty_Thor_Vol_1_12.1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120406044101
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LeonhartFour posted...

KamikazePotato posted...

I would try, but I have Claire in my bracket and dont like Joker THAT much, so

wow

the paulg is strong in you

There's a bunch of people who can try as well

Be the change you want to see in GameFAQs contests
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I can't be the only person that googled his official name before starting P5 so that I could use it, but I know I'm not with the majority there.
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Luis_Sera89 posted...

I can't be the only person that googled his official name before starting P5 so that I could use it, but I know I'm not with the majority there.

well if you bought it day 1 you couldn't do this because, well, it didn't exist yet
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yeah.....but at least velvet won!
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True.
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Who the hell even watches P5 anime.

Luis_Sera89 posted...

I can't be the only person that googled his official name before starting P5 so that I could use it, but I know I'm not with the majority there.

I played Persona 5 when it just came out and people online referred to him as Akira Kurusu which is why I did not recognize Ren Amamiya when the brackets came out.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Luis_Sera89 posted...

I can't be the only person that googled his official name before starting P5 so that I could use it, but I know I'm not with the majority there.

well if you bought it day 1 you couldn't do this because, well, it didn't exist yet

Akira Kurusu was his manga name!
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also I enjoy using my real name on my first Persona playthrough because I still get a strange sense of satisfaction seeing the characters attach honorifics to my very Irish last name
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The Mana Sword posted...

Akira Kurusu was his manga name!

yeah but it was never going to be his canon name based on the precedents set by P3 and P4 so I didn't use that
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P3 MC got robbed in the name department. Hey guys lets name him Makoto and then name another Persona character Makoto too

LeonhartFour posted...

also I enjoy using my real name on my first Persona playthrough because I still get a strange sense of satisfaction seeing the characters attach honorifics to my very Irish last name

Well Japan adds honorifics to foreigners too

Honestly Makoto Niijima should have been the P5 rep
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i have claire winning btw but i beseech @SBAllen to change it, you know, for posterities sake
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handsomeboy2012 posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

also I enjoy using my real name on my first Persona playthrough because I still get a strange sense of satisfaction seeing the characters attach honorifics to my very Irish last name

Well Japan adds honorifics to foreigners too

sure but I enjoy seeing it because it's not like anyone uses honorifics with my name in real life
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BK_Sheikah00 posted...

Honestly Makoto Niijima should have been the P5 rep

Agreed