Current Events > The Simpsons is getting rid of Apu

(+) Yeah! (+)

iirc Apu had already become less of a focus in episodes over the last few years (and most likely done in production before 'The Problem With Apu' was released) due in part to Hank Azaria (voice of Apu)
him announcing he's going to stop voicing the character was more of an eventuality and less of a sudden change
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VipaGTS posted...

Yea I really dont think people truly watched or understood what the controversy surrounding the problem with apu was. It was much broader than its racist remove him! They didnt even want him removed. They just used Apu as an example. They wanted all writers/directors/etc to look beyond typecasting Indian actors in stereotypical roles. They hypothesized that caricatures like Apu were keeping that line of thinking alive. It wasnt just an attack on Apu or an attack at all. It was using a well known stereotypical character to help prove a point and I feel like the creators of the Simpsons missed that point completely.

This. Although my problem with "The Problem with Apu" was that the guy who was presenting the documentary kept trying to show that "he really liked the Simpsons" and I get the idea of trying to make it seem like he just wanted to start a dialogue, but it also felt like he just wanted to gain some notoriety from a current trend and was just taking advantage (especially because everyone he interviewed had a clear hatred for Apu)

How are they getting rib of him? T-shirt cannon to the head while he is in the stands? "Baby" Maggie gets a hold of another gun?
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The Simpsons should get rid of The Simpsons.

008Zulu posted...

How are they getting rib of him? T-shirt cannon to the head while he is in the stands? "Baby" Maggie gets a hold of another gun?

Nah he's probably just being left out in the future, maybe an acknowledgement that he's dead now and everyone misses him (such as Edna), or just never bring him up again (Like Troy McClure)

About time.
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Proto_Spark posted...

008Zulu posted...

How are they getting rib of him? T-shirt cannon to the head while he is in the stands? "Baby" Maggie gets a hold of another gun?

Nah he's probably just being left out in the future, maybe an acknowledgement that he's dead now and everyone misses him (such as Edna), or just never bring him up again (Like Troy McClure)

Seems anti-climactic. I thought that they've have their Trump come along and personally deport him.
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In an interview with USA Today, creator Matt Groening dismissed the criticism of the Apu character, saying "I think its a time in our culture where people love to pretend theyre offended".

hes not wrong

BonBonTheCutest posted...

SJWs ruining more of society, news at 11...

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Hinakuluiau posted...

Kondobolus thesis from the problem with Apu wasnt just that he was a stereotype, but that as the only Indian character and still so stereotypical. Homer is the stereotypical Murican, Burns is the greedy tycoon, Cletus is the redneck, Wiggins is the stupid cop, but these are ALL different aspects of WHITE dudes. You know that all white dudes arent greedy because theres dozens of other white dudes that are not greedy. You know that all white dudes are not dumb because there are dozens of white characters who are smart.

But the one Indian guy is a Hindu guy with a thick accent who runs the mini mart, and thats the difference made by representation.

It also does not help that he was the only one Indian character on (a white) American TV for decades.
When your only representation on TV for your racial minority is a stereotype, its not the Simpsons is bad, Apu is offensive, therefore you are racist. Its more this dudes one of, if not the only depictions of an Indian on TV. As a kid everyone used this stereotype to talk smack or make off color jokes. The. Same. Damn. Joke.

TL:DR - this was addressed from the very beginning and you dont understand the issue.

lmfao found his account

Hinakuluiau posted...

Kondobolus thesis from the problem with Apu <wasnt just that he was a stereotype, but that as the only Indian character and still so stereotypical. Homer is the stereotypical Murican, Burns is the greedy tycoon, Cletus is the redneck, Wiggins is the stupid cop, but these are ALL different aspects of WHITE dudes. You know that all white dudes arent greedy because theres dozens of other white dudes that are not greedy. You know that all white dudes are not dumb because there are dozens of white characters who are smart.

But the one Indian guy is a Hindu guy with a thick accent who runs the mini mart, and thats the difference made by representation.

It also does not help that he was the only one Indian character on (a white) American TV show for decades.
When your only representation on TV for your racial minority is a stereotype, its not the Simpsons is bad, Apu is offensive, therefore you are racist. Its more this dudes one of, if not the only depictions of an Indian on TV. As a kid everyone used this stereotype to talk smack or make off color jokes. The. Same. Damn. Joke.

TL:DR - this was addressed from the very beginning and you dont understand the issue.

The bolded parts are false, the rest is just stupid.
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"Is anyone offended by mistletoe?"
*one person out of a large group raises hand*
"Take down the mistletoe!"

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Lord_Wombat posted...

Hinakuluiau posted...

he was the only one Indian character on (a white) American TV show for decades.

The bolded parts are false, the rest is just stupid.

We're all breathlessly waiting for your proof that it's false.
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CyricZ posted...

Lord_Wombat posted...

Hinakuluiau posted...

he was the only one Indian character on (a white) American TV show for decades.

The bolded parts are false, the rest is just stupid.

We're all breathlessly waiting for your proof that it's false.

Heres Apu with his Brother, Wife, Mother, and kids.





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ViewtifulGrave posted...

Heres Apu with his Brother, Wife, Mother, and kids.

Please tell me you're not trying to pass off characters directly satellite to Apu as major distinct Indian characters in a TV show.

I would have at least thought people would try to go outside the Simpsons.

Sanjay is Apu with a slightly different look.

Manjula and Apu's mother don't appear outside of a single flashback until Season 9, only Manjula sticks around and she barely has a character, and I don't even feel the fact that you're trying to say eight infants are each individual Indian characters warrants a response.
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so how many Indians do you need for the show to be acceptable? Is it really the show writer's fault if other shows did not have any Indians in them? If the problem is not Apu itself but the overall representation of Indians in media, why did he directly point Apu in the title?

CyricZ posted...

ViewtifulGrave posted...

Heres Apu with his Brother, Wife, Mother, and kids.

Please tell me you're not trying to pass off characters directly satellite to Apu as major distinct Indian characters in a TV show.

I would have at least thought people would try to go outside the Simpsons.

Sanjay is Apu with a slightly different look.

Manjula and Apu's mother don't appear outside of a single flashback until Season 9, only Manjula sticks around and she barely has a character, and I don't even feel the fact that you're trying to say eight infants are each individual Indian characters warrants a response.

"The Simpsons only has one Indian character."

*Lists several Indian Simpsons characters*

"Those don't count."
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Seems like a lame way to try and work around the issue but it doesn't overly matter at this point I guess.

polopili posted...

so how many Indians do you need for the show to be acceptable? Is it really the show writer's fault if other shows did not have any Indians in them? If the problem is not Apu itself but the overall representation of Indians in media, why did he directly point Apu in the title?

Because Apu was the one everyone knew. He was used as a point of reference for many Americans despite being a stereotype played by an American.
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CyricZ posted...

Please tell me you're not trying to pass off characters directly satellite to Apu as major distinct Indian characters in a TV show.

Obviously I was responding to the claim the Apu was the only Indian character on TV for decades. Which you know is factually false.
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I am amazed the show is still going, stopped watching it over 10 years ago.
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CyricZ posted...

Sanjay is Apu with a slightly different look.

They are brothers. Kinda how family works.
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ViewtifulGrave posted...

CyricZ posted...

Please tell me you're not trying to pass off characters directly satellite to Apu as major distinct Indian characters in a TV show.

Obviously I was responding to the claim the Apu was the only Indian character on TV for decades. Which you know is factually false.

Okay, fine, but to what use.

How does it help the argument to take his statement 100% literally. How does pointing out the one technical inaccuracy in his statement serve the discussion?

008Zulu posted...

CyricZ posted...

Sanjay is Apu with a slightly different look.

They are brothers. Kinda how family works.

Homer and Herb are brothers and are two very different people.
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CyricZ posted...

How does it help the argument to take his statement 100% literally. How does pointing out the one technical inaccuracy in his statement serve the discussion?

To show that one shouldnt speak in absolutes and I like being technically correct even if it serves no real purpose.
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Dash_Harber posted...

hotcegaI posted...

The entire point of Apu is that's one of the most upstanding people in the city.

The entire point? I'm pretty sure his most quoted lines are digs at his vegetarianism, funny accent, or 'funny' exotic religion. I mean, I'm not saying he didn't get good character development, but even making a stereotype a hero of the story doesn't change the fact that they are a stereotype. You can't deny that's like 50% of the character.

You can say the same thing for just about every character. Is Homer a racist caricature of an American? It is called humor. Exaggerating stereotypes is part of that.

Pretty much all of the notable Indian actors and comedians were told to act more like Apu at some point of their careers. That's how ingrained that specific stereotype was. It's why that documentary caught on too. There was an episode all about this sorta thing on Master of None too. That's not even going into how many of them were bullied growing up using Apu too.

It sucks being seen as a stereotype created by Americans who knows jack shit about your culture. That's all this controversy was ever about.

Removing the character at this point is a pretty lazy response to it. Which isn't surprising considering the response the current Simpsons writers have made towards any criticisms.

The sad thing is this was the sorta thing the Simpsons writers would tackle in old episodes. They often satire pop culture and the impact it has on society. Lisa the Lionheart being a good example. But that was back when these writers were young Harvard graduates. They're not some scrappy kids anymore. They're now old wealthy dudes who are out of touch. Which is a major reason why The Simpsons is now the way it is.
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

You can say the same thing for just about every character. Is Homer a racist caricature of an American? It is called humor. Exaggerating stereotypes is part of that.

White American actors aren't told to be like Homer to get work. The people impacted don't have the same experience. Maybe some bald, fat guy is often bombarded with Homer jokes out there but I've never encountered or heard of that happening.

On top of that The Simpsons family was drawn from real world inspiration. Apu is based on a character Peter Sellers played.
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Darmik posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

You can say the same thing for just about every character. Is Homer a racist caricature of an American? It is called humor. Exaggerating stereotypes is part of that.

White American actors aren't told to be like Homer to get work. The people impacted don't have the same experience. Maybe some bald, fat guy is often bombarded with Homer jokes out there but I've never encountered or heard of that happening.

On top of that The Simpsons family was drawn from real world inspiration. Apu is based on a character Peter Sellers played.

So we only can have comedy about white cis males now? Sounds great! Just like when speedy Gonzales got banned a bunch of virtue signaling white liberals cried and Mexicans got it back on the air.

Also, Homer is a personification of the ugly American stereotype which is used all the time.

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

So we only can have comedy about white cis males now? Sounds great! Just like when speedy Gonzales got banned a bunch of virtue signaling white liberals cried and Mexicans got it back on the air.

Where did I say that?

Is it impossible for The Simpsons staff, who have several writers and voice actors at their disposal, to hire someone Indian in order to get a perspective for a character that they don't necessarily have?

Marge focused episodes who had female led writers worked out quite well for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scenes_from_the_Class_Struggle_in_Springfield
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Darmik posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

So we only can have comedy about white cis males now? Sounds great! Just like when speedy Gonzales got banned a bunch of virtue signaling white liberals cried and Mexicans got it back on the air.

Where did I say that?

Is it impossible for The Simpsons staff, who have several writers and voice actors at their disposal, to hire someone Indian in order to get a perspective for a character that they don't necessarily have?

Marge focused episodes who had female led writers worked out quite well for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scenes_from_the_Class_Struggle_in_Springfield

How about we dont recast an iconic voice actor, btw Apu has one of the more interesting character arcs and you think they write him the same way? The entire series is a parody of all cultures. This is absurd and biased? Why only complain about Apu when every character is a ridiculous parody. It is an adult cartoon...lets just fucking cancel comedy it would be better than recasting Apu to be played by an Indian so they could educate fucking Simpsons fans about Indian culture.

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

How about we dont recast an iconic voice actor, btw Apu has one of the more interesting character arcs and you think they write him the same way? The entire series is a parody of all cultures. This is absurd and biased? Why only complain about Apu when every character is a ridiculous parody. It is an adult cartoon...lets just fucking cancel comedy it would be better than recasting Apu to be played by an Indian so they could educate fucking Simpsons fans about Indian culture.

I've explained to a few posts above what makes Apu unique compared to other stereotypes.

I never said anything about recasting his voice actor in 2018 either. When speaking about today I think tackling it with some Indian comedians or comedy writers would have been a much smarter move but The Simpsons writing room is too much of a clique these days to do something like that.
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

Darmik posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

You can say the same thing for just about every character. Is Homer a racist caricature of an American? It is called humor. Exaggerating stereotypes is part of that.

White American actors aren't told to be like Homer to get work. The people impacted don't have the same experience. Maybe some bald, fat guy is often bombarded with Homer jokes out there but I've never encountered or heard of that happening.

On top of that The Simpsons family was drawn from real world inspiration. Apu is based on a character Peter Sellers played.

So we only can have comedy about white cis males now? Sounds great! Just like when speedy Gonzales got banned a bunch of virtue signaling white liberals cried and Mexicans got it back on the air.

Also, Homer is a personification of the ugly American stereotype which is used all the time.

Or Homer is just Homer and not everything has to be representative of stuff? If you flip out about a cartoon character because you share their race, you're a fountain of insecurity. So many people are like this that others have to be victims of their insecurities.

Darmik posted...

Pretty much all of the notable Indian actors and comedians were told to act more like Apu at some point of their careers. That's how ingrained that specific stereotype was. It's why that documentary caught on too. There was an episode all about this sorta thing on Master of None too. That's not even going into how many of them were bullied growing up using Apu too.

It sucks being seen as a stereotype created by Americans who knows jack shit about your culture. That's all this controversy was ever about.

Removing the character at this point is a pretty lazy response to it. Which isn't surprising considering the response the current Simpsons writers have made towards any criticisms.

The sad thing is this was the sorta thing the Simpsons writers would tackle in old episodes. They often satire pop culture and the impact it has on society. Lisa the Lionheart being a good example. But that was back when these writers were young Harvard graduates. They're not some scrappy kids anymore. They're now old wealthy dudes who are out of touch. Which is a major reason why The Simpsons is now the way it is.

That's just racists using Apu as a vehicle. Apu himself is an great person to aspire to be.
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SJWs are a blight upon humanity
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voldothegr8 posted...

SJWs are a blight upon humanity

They have some good ideas and really shitty ways of going about executing them since nobody is specifically in charge.

It's sort of like why BLM isn't making the progress MLK did. Persons are smart. People are idiots. Groups should have a leader and followers that know how to listen.

https://imgur.com/f3C5t4n
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Apu is fine. Comedic takes on race is fine. The problem is when people view a character as a representation of that race and view members of that race like that character. That is what people are upset about. I don't understand why that point is getting lost in all of this. They're only calling for a change in Apu because that character is perpetuating stereotypes that make it harder for a certain group of people. That's not fully the fault of the creators, but more so society as a whole, and things can't fully be changed until characters like that are also changed.
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Veggeta X posted...

Apu is fine. Comedic takes on race is fine. The problem is when people view a character as a representation of that race and view members of that race like that character. That is what people are upset about. I don't understand why that point is getting lost in all of this. They're only calling for a change in Apu because that character is perpetuating stereotypes that make it harder for a certain group of people. That's not fully the fault of the creators, but more so society as a whole, and things can't fully be changed until characters like that are also changed.

I more or less made the same point about five pages ago, and it quickly and predictably got ignored. Someone else will make this point again in another five pages or so. It will continue to go clean over the heads of its intended targets.
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No worries I'll make sure everyone understands this point moving forward. I'm very good at that.
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The whole show is about stereotypes. Apu's was he's indian, he's vegan, he's the head of a nuclear family with wife and children, and owns his own company. Ohhh, the horror. social justice is cancer and these leftie losers want nothing more than a pure 100% yellow Springfield.
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@BillyKidd posted...

The whole show is about stereotypes. Apu's was he's indian, he's vegan, he's the head of a nuclear family with wife and children, and owns his own company. Ohhh, the horror. social justice is cancer and these leftie losers want nothing more than a pure 100% yellow Springfield.

Why did you ignore my post?
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Veggeta X posted...

@BillyKidd posted...

The whole show is about stereotypes. Apu's was he's indian, he's vegan, he's the head of a nuclear family with wife and children, and owns his own company. Ohhh, the horror. social justice is cancer and these leftie losers want nothing more than a pure 100% yellow Springfield.

Why did you ignore my post?

Because you talk a lot but don't say anything.
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Okay then just read this specific part then.

Veggeta X posted...

The problem is when people view a character as a representation of that race and view members of that race like that character. That is what people are upset about.

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I prefer these parts:
Veggeta X posted...

Apu is fine.

Veggeta X posted...

until characters like that are also changed.

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Veggeta X posted...

Okay then just read this specific part then.

Veggeta X posted...

The problem is when people view a character as a representation of that race and view members of that race like that character. That is what people are upset about.

so when are they getting rid of Uter, Bumblebee Man, Groundskeeper Willie, Cletus, every Asian character, etc...?
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BillyKidd posted...

Veggeta X posted...

Okay then just read this specific part then.

Veggeta X posted...

The problem is when people view a character as a representation of that race and view members of that race like that character. That is what people are upset about.

so when are they getting rid of Uter, Bumblebee Man, Groundskeeper Willie, Cletus, every Asian character, etc...?

Whenever an entire generation of German, Mexican, or Spanish immigrants or even natural citizens with such heritage have to go through being marginalized with the nicknames 'Uter,' 'Bumblebee Man,' or 'Groundskeeper Willie.' Protip: I wouldn't hold your breath on those, since two of them are White and one of them has a wider representation in media, thus offering a wider pool of racially-insensitive nicknames. I didn't touch on 'every Asian character,' because if you can't be bothered to single one out, neither can I.

And slack-jawed yokel isn't a race, genius.
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s0nicfan posted...

I prefer these parts:
Veggeta X posted...

Apu is fine.

Veggeta X posted...

until characters like that are also changed.

Selective reading is a bad trait. I suggest you throw that trait away.
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BillyKidd posted...

so when are they getting rid of Uter, Bumblebee Man, Groundskeeper Willie, Cletus, every Asian character, etc...?

masterpug53 posted...

Whenever an entire generation of German, Mexican, or Spanish immigrants or even natural citizens with such heritage have to go through being marginalized with the nicknames 'Uter,' 'Bumblebee Man,' or 'Groundskeeper Willie.' Protip: I wouldn't hold your breath on those, since two of them are White and one of them has a wider representation in media, thus offering a wider pool of racially-insensitive nicknames. I didn't touch on 'every Asian character,' because if you can't be bothered to single one out, neither can I.

And slack-jawed yokel isn't a race, genius.

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Eh it'll probably be a troll thing. Get rid of apu and replace him with character that looks like him, acts like him, and talks like him but has a different name.
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masterpug53 posted...

BillyKidd posted...

Veggeta X posted...

Okay then just read this specific part then.

Veggeta X posted...

The problem is when people view a character as a representation of that race and view members of that race like that character. That is what people are upset about.

so when are they getting rid of Uter, Bumblebee Man, Groundskeeper Willie, Cletus, every Asian character, etc...?

Whenever an entire generation of German, Mexican, or Spanish immigrants or even natural citizens with such heritage have to go through being marginalized with the nicknames 'Uter,' 'Bumblebee Man,' or 'Groundskeeper Willie.' Protip: I wouldn't hold your breath on those, since two of them are White and one of them has a wider representation in media, thus offering a wider pool of racially-insensitive nicknames. I didn't touch on 'every Asian character,' because if you can't be bothered to single one out, neither can I.

And slack-jawed yokel isn't a race, genius.

Plenty of Germans have had the stereotype of fat, wearing leiderhosen, and with a particular accent that came from media such as the Simpsons.

Groundskeeper Willie's accent is stereotypical and constantly used in media to push the continued stereotype.

Appalachian/Southern characters in media, cartoon or otherwise, are always played like that and quite often are called Cletus, so wrong, again, they are mocking a portion of a race that lives in a particular area.
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