Current Events > So Apu is offensive but Raj (BBT) is okay?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Do people just randomly select what they want to be offended about every month or something?
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im not 13 posted...

Do people just randomly select what they want to be offended about every month or something?

yes
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Why do you think people thought Apu was offensive, TC? Did you read/listen to the complaint that sparked that whole controversy?
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UnfairRepresent posted...

im not 13 posted...

Do people just randomly select what they want to be offended about every month or something?

yes

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How are they similar?
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If da Simpsons wasn't a fox show dey wouldn't cry tbh
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scar the 1 posted...

Why do you think people thought Apu was offensive, TC? Did you read/listen to the complaint that sparked that whole controversy?

That he's a negative stereotype? A business owner, family man that is very intelligent? Yeah I heard
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im not 13 posted...

scar the 1 posted...

Why do you think people thought Apu was offensive, TC? Did you read/listen to the complaint that sparked that whole controversy?

That he's a negative stereotype? A business owner, family man that is very intelligent? Yeah I heard

That's not the entire case made against him, no. Where did you read it?
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scar the 1 posted...

That's not the entire case made against him, no. Where did you read it?

I have not watched the documentary but I have watched and read a lot of commentary after it. From what I have gathered people are upset how Apu is portrayed. If I'm missing something let me know

My argument is Raj is in some ways an even worse sterotype to Indian people yet I haven't heard anyone complain about him
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As an Indian guy, Raj is more offensive to me than Apu
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Raj is genuinely awful.
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Raj is played by an Indian actor so he can do what he likes.
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im not 13 posted...

Do people just randomly select what they want to be offended about every month or something?

yes. its the liberal way
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Kazi1212 posted...

As an Indian guy, Raj is more offensive to me than Apu

How do you feel about the controversy as a whole?
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raj does seem worse. the simpsons thing is silly. it's not like he's the only stereotype or whatever on the show. are they gonna get rid of willie next?
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im not 13 posted...

Kazi1212 posted...

As an Indian guy, Raj is more offensive to me than Apu

How do you feel about the controversy as a whole?

Its pretty ridiculous
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Looking to a Chuck Lorre show for inspiration is always a bad move
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The reason behind the documentary and the current conversation about Apu is not that Apu is a bad person, nor that Raj isn't a worse person.

The guy who wrote the documentary was basically commenting on the fact that, given Apu was the only major Indian representation in media in general for a long time, a lot of people he has met over his life has used that filter when interacting with him, because that's all they had as a reference. He's had to deal with jokes, stereotypes, and expectations.

It was also to start a greater conversation on the idea of representation in media, having diverse voices in the writing room, and taking care in the future when addressing minorities or marginalized groups.

And no, this isn't truly the fault of the Simpsons' writers. Apu on his own is not offensive. He's a goofy Simpsons character like all the rest. It wasn't on the Simpsons in the first place to create the best possible representation of an Indian character that the community could be proud of. This is just a result of happenstance and the fact that no one else in the media really wanted to tackle a major Indian character until Raj.

The only reason it continues to be "a thing" is because of the response of people involved with the Simpsons. Matt Groening (who has long since been just a creative consultant on the Simpsons) dismissively said that "people like to be offended", while the Simpsons staff wrote an in-universe 30 second diatribe at the tail end of a recent episode basically calling out "the offended" similarly. And now, the bigwigs at Fox, in lieu of trying to improve Apu as a character, are just shutting Apu down completely.

The most positive response so far (in my opinion) is Hank Azaria (voice of Apu) basically saying in an interview that yeah, nowadays it may be worth it to get those voices in the writing room, or to think a little more about a character going forward.

Sorry that was a lot to read, but I hope it explains to TC the situation.
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Kazi1212 posted...

As an Indian guy, Raj is more offensive to me than Apu

lol
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CyricZ posted...

The reason behind the documentary and the current conversation about Apu is not that Apu is a bad person, nor that Raj isn't a worse person.

The guy who wrote the documentary was basically commenting on the fact that, given Apu was the only major Indian representation in media in general for a long time, a lot of people he has met over his life has used that filter when interacting with him, because that's all they had as a reference. He's had to deal with jokes, stereotypes, and expectations.

It was also to start a greater conversation on the idea of representation in media, having diverse voices in the writing room, and taking care in the future when addressing minorities or marginalized groups.

And no, this isn't truly the fault of the Simpsons' writers. Apu on his own is not offensive. He's a goofy Simpsons character like all the rest. It wasn't on the Simpsons in the first place to create the best possible representation of an Indian character that the community could be proud of. This is just a result of happenstance and the fact that no one else in the media really wanted to tackle a major Indian character until Raj.

The only reason it continues to be "a thing" is because of the response of people involved with the Simpsons. Matt Groening (who has long since been just a creative consultant on the Simpsons) dismissively said that "people like to be offended", while the Simpsons staff wrote an in-universe 30 second diatribe at the tail end of a recent episode basically calling out "the offended" similarly. And now, the bigwigs at Fox, in lieu of trying to improve Apu as a character, are just shutting Apu down completely.

The most positive response so far (in my opinion) is Hank Azaria (voice of Apu) basically saying in an interview that yeah, nowadays it may be worth it to get those voices in the writing room, or to think a little more about a character going forward.

Sorry that was a lot to read, but I hope it explains to TC the situation.

I don't think the popularity of the show and the fact that there are no other real portrayal of an Indian man are directly relatable.

People will be people. If Apu didn't exist they would find another way to interact with the guy that made the documentary. It's up to him to educate them on what is actually true and what isn't

I'm just confused why people are only seeing Apu as an Indian character...he has so many qualities to him.

Despite the fact that there have been many takes on the average white American family I feel the way the Simpson family is portrayed is way more damaging than Apu..and even with that it's a cartoon so how seriously can you take it?

Even though Matt Groening's response wasn't the most articulated he kind of has a point. You've enjoyed the show for over 30 years how we've joked about race and other such issues...why is it that now it's such an issue?

Idk man, if they get rid of Apu that means we have 1 less positive Indian man depicted in media and have to reply on Raj...
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Let me try this again from a different angle.

It's not specifically about Apu. It's about media in general, representation, and judgments people make about life based on what they're exposed to through media. Apu is merely an example of that, and I'll say it again, ultimately through no fault of the Simpsons writers when they conceived and used him as a character.

im not 13 posted...

People will be people. If Apu didn't exist they would find another way to interact with the guy that made the documentary. It's up to him to educate them on what is actually true and what isn't

The issue is that, in media, no one *but* Apu existed, so that was the lens they had. If there were at least a few Indian characters in media (three or four), then Hari Kondabolu might have had a different experience growing up. At the end of the day, I hardly think it's on one Indian comedy writer to "educate them", "them" being in this case the entire media-consuming public, although in a way, his documentary was trying to do a bit of just that.

im not 13 posted...

I'm just confused why people are only seeing Apu as an Indian character...he has so many qualities to him.

As you say, people are people. Sometimes they will only see things skin deep. And I know you're probably referring to "the offended", but it's really the majority of people who watched the Simpsons that got "Apu is an Indian" stuck in their head, even if a back part of their mind.

That said, let's not oversell Apu. He's a Simpsons character, and his qualities are whatever they need to be for that episode. Everyone talks about him being a hard worker, a smart guy, and a father, but nobody talks about him celebrating Marge getting put in prison, discarding his heritage for a barbershop quartet, or being one of several people who wanted to kill Mr. Burns.

im not 13 posted...

Idk man, if they get rid of Apu that means we have 1 less positive Indian man depicted in media and have to reply on Raj...

I agree with not removing Apu. I think Fox's move of axing the character was cowardly.
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People that complained backpedaled from "We hate how Apu is portrayed" to "we hate that a white guy does his voice" shortly after everyone pointed out that Apu is portrayed as one of the best people in Springfield on The Simpsons.

UnfairRepresent posted...

im not 13 posted...

Do people just randomly select what they want to be offended about every month or something?

yes

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I've said this a million fucking time but it's okay I'll say it again as much as needed.

Apu is fine. Comedic takes on race is fine. The problem is when people view a character as a representation of that race and view members of that race like that character. That is what people are upset about. I don't understand why that point is getting lost in all of this. They're only calling for a change in Apu because that character is perpetuating stereotypes that make it harder for a certain group of people. That's not fully the fault of the creators, but more so society as a whole, and things can't fully be changed until characters like that are also changed.

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nothing about BBT is okay

CyricZ posted...

That said, let's not oversell Apu. He's a Simpsons character, and his qualities are whatever they need to be for that episode.

absolutely true, although this is more a problem with simpsons as a whole

almost all of the characters are 'what they need to be for the episode', except maybe lisa
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100 bucks says everyone ITT will ignore my post and won't properly respond.
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So when are they getting rid of Uter, Bumblebee Man, Groundskeeper Willie, Cletus, every Asian character, etc... you ask?

Whenever an entire generation of German, Mexican, or Spanish immigrants or even natural citizens with such heritage have to go through being marginalized with the nicknames 'Uter,' 'Bumblebee Man,' or 'Groundskeeper Willie.' Protip: I wouldn't hold your breath on those, since two of them are White and one of them has a wider representation in media, thus offering a wider pool of racially-insensitive nicknames. I didn't touch on 'every Asian character,' because if you can't be bothered to single one out, neither can I.

Checkmate
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Veggeta X posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZuKMo9u8CM" data-time="

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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

People that complained backpedaled from "We hate how Apu is portrayed" to "we hate that a white guy does his voice" shortly after everyone pointed out that Apu is portrayed as one of the best people in Springfield on The Simpsons.

Backpedaled? You know this entire thing has come about because of a documentary right? Where is the backpedal?
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Southernfatman posted...

Veggeta X posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZuKMo9u8CM" data-time="

Active Posts: 10
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Veggeta X posted...

100 bucks says everyone ITT will ignore my post and won't properly respond.

Because it's stupid as fuck

Apu didn't create those stereotypes, Indians did by literally running 7/11's all over the country.

If you're upset by the name, then that's just weird.

Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Apu didn't create those stereotypes, Indians did by literally running 7/11's all over the country.

Selective understanding is a horrible trait my friend.
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Veggeta X posted...

I've said this a million fucking time but it's okay I'll say it again as much as needed.

Apu is fine. Comedic takes on race is fine. The problem is when people view a character as a representation of that race and view members of that race like that character. That is what people are upset about. I don't understand why that point is getting lost in all of this. They're only calling for a change in Apu because that character is perpetuating stereotypes that make it harder for a certain group of people. That's not fully the fault of the creators, but more so society as a whole, and things can't fully be changed until characters like that are also changed.

You've also said a million fucking times you don't care about this at all, so which is it?
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Apu didn't create those stereotypes, Indians did by literally running 7/11's all over the country.

So it's their fault that their accent was mocked and ridiculed in media too?
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Southernfatman posted...

Veggeta X posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZuKMo9u8CM" data-time="

Lmfao
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Veggeta X posted...

Selective understanding is a horrible trait my friend.

You flat out say this isn't a fault of the creators but society.

Yet, the character is the one who has to change.

Shut the fuck up and go be upset about Capcom some more.

ThyCorndog posted...

raj does seem worse. the simpsons thing is silly. it's not like he's the only stereotype or whatever on the show. are they gonna get rid of willie next?

The regressive outrage mob is A-OK with other stereotypes because they're not brown enough, which is what most of their thought process revolves around. Because they're totally not racist.
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Ewan McGregor didn't have to start his career by playing a Groundskeeper Willy stereotype.

Most Indian actors do not seem to have that experience when it comes to Apu. Which is why this has come out now. It has only been recently when Indian actors have been successful enough to risk rocking the boat.
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Yet, the character is the one who has to change.

I also said:

Veggeta X posted...

but more so society as a whole, and things can't fully be changed until characters like that are also changed.

Like I said, selective understanding.
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Irony in three acts:

"People just want to be offended!"

"That's not what's happening. What's actually happening is--"

"I DON'T CARE! People just want to be offended and no amount of your explanation will change how I have decided to perceive this!"
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CyricZ posted...

Irony in three acts:

"People just want to be offended!"

"That's not what's happening. What's actually happening is--"

"I DON'T CARE! People just want to be offended and no amount of your explanation will change how I have decided to perceive this!"

This. You guys don't want to actually dissect the situation. You guys so stubbornly set on your bubbled logic.
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The problem I see is that the writers didn't intend on creating a character that would define the way people view an entire culture. They just wanted to make a good character. We're essentially censoring them by the tyranny of the majority when it's the fault of the people, not the artists. Which I think is wrong.
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Big bang theory is ran on cbs.

Simpsons on fox.

Theres a reason why outrage was created and people fell into the trap.
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Apu didn't create those stereotypes, Indians did by literally running 7/11's all over the country.

Find the stereotype, perpetuate the stereotype, get a white guy to do the voice, wonder where the outrage is coming from. It's not Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's level of bad, but it's fair criticism.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

im not 13 posted...

Do people just randomly select what they want to be offended about every month or something?

yes

I read through every post in this topic and I really should have stopped at post 2.
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Omega Hunter posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

im not 13 posted...

Do people just randomly select what they want to be offended about every month or something?

yes

I read through every post in this topic and I really should have stopped at post 2.

Selective understanding is a bad trait my friend.
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Youngster_Joey_ posted...

Veggeta X posted...

Selective understanding is a horrible trait my friend.

You flat out say this isn't a fault of the creators but society.

Yet, the character is the one who has to change.

Shut the fuck up and go be upset about Capcom some more.

Comedy is almost by definition transgressive. That's why a lot of it ages poorly, because the values of society shifts all the time. As they should. So it makes perfect sense to update your characters if you have a long-running show. They don't exist in the same context now as they did back then.
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Awesome posted...

Big bang theory is ran on cbs.

Simpsons on fox.

Theres a reason why outrage was created and people fell into the trap.

Didn't your alt got banned recently for something some racist shit?
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Smashingpmkns posted...

We're essentially censoring them by the tyranny of the majority

The only one who had decided to "censor" is Fox itself by ending the character.
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