Board 8 > ~*Ultimaterializer's Post-Contest Analysis!!*~

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hbthebattle posted...

Rankings have never been important ever, considering how requirements that weren't exp/turns/dont let people die tended to be asinine.

Theyre still important to the 0% Growth LTC Draft Playthrough crowd, though.
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Ranking system?
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Logience posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Path of Radiance all day.

And the PC nutjobs would 100% take over a console contest.

But Ulti, its the slowest FE, and theres no ranking system at the end!

PoR being slow is a 100% valid criticism, as is its bad unit balance (mounted units are ridiculous) and annoying shop system. It's a good game but hasn't aged as well as some of the others, I'd put it last in the glory age of FE7-10 these days (still better than every game outside that group outside of Conquest though).

Ranking systems are cool but FE7 is the only one that has a decent one pretty much, and even that has some warts. At least PoR/RD keep the turn-based bonus exp which provides some incentive to not play the game like a turtle.
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Division 2 Round 1: (3)Yoshi vs (14)Shantae

(3)Yoshi - 21617 [74.27%]
(14)Shantae - 7490 [25.73%]
Total Votes - 29107
Prediction Percentage - 84.7%

This was supposed to be a typical boring blowout, and it was, but for some reason a gigantic argument broke out all over Board 8 about whether or not Shantae was fodder. I don't mean the standard "we're bored so we're making up stupid crap to argue about in the stats topic", either. Shantae and her 19 fans were sitting here screaming over the character having real strength. Just for the hell of it, I went and looked at KP's adjusted stats. Here's yet another fantastic example of why extrapolated standings are a joke.

Shantae - 16.22
Noctis Lucis Caelum - 15.96
Kazuma Kiryu - 15.95
Yu Narukami - 15.91
Dragonborn - 15.84
Joker / Ren Amamiya - 15.74
Primrose - 15.64
Aya Brea - 15.56
Goro Majima - 15.32
Metal Man - 15.2
D.Va - 14.82
Miles Edgeworth - 14.51
Gordon Freeman - 14.5
James Sunderland - 14.45
Neptune - 14.26
Neku Sakuraba - 14.11
Aloy - 13.95
Godot - 13.86
John Marston - 13.68
Estelle Bright - 13.45
Sans - 13.15
Monokuma - 13.01
Hat Kid - 12.94
Isabelle - 12.76
Victor Sullivan - 12.58
Quiet - 12.13
Cayde-6 - 11.9
Chloe Price - 8.65
Draven - 6.22

Here's the bottom of his stats. Even by the ridiculous arbitrary adjustments these stat people make, Shantae is gutter trash. Nothing against KP here (he'll eat his L later on in these writeups, don't worry), but half of these characters or more would beat Shantae in a match. No one knows who or what a Shantae even is, and we're supposed to believe she could beat Noctis, Dragonborn, Aya Brea, Quiet, Gordon Freeman, or John Marston in a 1v1 contest match? Get the hell out of here. I cannot believe I had to waste more than 5 seconds on round 1 fodder getting blown out, yet here we are.

Shantae's fanbase quickly reached Persona levels of 'way to convince me never to play any of the games you people care about'. Instead of white knighting pixel boobs, try hitting the gym so you guys can have the real thing once in awhile. Some of you clearly need it. Which is fine. We all start somewhere.

Shantae is gutter trash fodder, the end. Yoshi scored a very clear and obvious blowout, and Shantae has no contest strength. Deal with it. This match wasn't to the level oF DEUS EX ISN'T WINNING BY ENOUGH, but it came close.
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Logience posted...

Hbthebattle posted...

Rankings have never been important ever, considering how requirements that weren't exp/turns/dont let people die tended to be asinine.

Theyre still important to the 0% Growth LTC Draft Playthrough crowd, though.

You know that LTC means you don't care about rankings right

If you care about rankings it is a ranked playthrough

Also the funds rank is terrible, it basically means you can't use any of those fun endgame weapons because it diminishes their value too much.
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Ulti_PCA posted...

Ranking system?

When the credits stop rolling for FEs 5, 6 and 7 (and also 4, but the old patch froze before you could even get to the credits), youre given ranks from E to A for how well you played, based on turncount, EXP distribution, net worth of your items, deaths of player-controllable units, and ratio of battles to kills. If you managed to get A in all of them, youre given an S rank.
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Oh that pointless nonsense that FE people always argue about. I ignore it for a reason.
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Kk

Also, Ulti, have you played Deus Ex? Or is it also on the list of games you refuse to play because of flagellants pissing you off?
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I own it. I'll play it eventually.
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Division 2 Round 1: (6)Velvet Crowe vs (11)James Sunderland

(6)Velvet Crowe - 17773 [61.04%]
(11)James Sunderland - 11346 [38.96%]
Total Votes - 29119
Prediction Percentage - 56.88

I had to look this up for myself, because I saw it posted during this match and could not believe it. Until this very match right here, Lloyd Irving is the only character from a Tales game to have ever won a match. Ever. None of the other popular characters from those games have ever won. Not Kratos, not Zelos, not Luke von Fabre, not Yuri Lowell. None of them. I remember crusading back in the day pleading with people to stop nominating these characters, because I adore these games and got so tired of seeing them get flatlined every contest.

Turns out all Tales needed was a super popular main character (popular by Tales standards anyway, I am under no delusion about Tales actually being a popular series) from a recent game to go up against a dumpster fire. James Sunderland was all too happy to bring out his gas can and do his best impersonation of a Vietnamese protestor, because I can't imagine many other spots in this bracket where literal Velvet Crowe breaks 60% on someone. Even Aya Brea, who I believe was the weakest character to actually win a match, couldn't break 60%. I like Silent Hill 2, but those characters will always be absolute bottom tier in these contests.

I'll speak for myself here because I have a casual perspective on a lot of things that I bet translates with a lot of voters. When I play a video game, I want something decidedly unrealistic. Doesn't mean I won't play a realistic game, or even enjoy some realism from my characters. A good example is Solid Snake. He sits there in a world growing more and more insane by the hour, but we appreciate him both for his realism and for the fact that we'll never be like Snake. That's a hard balance to pull off. In other cases, like with a Link or a Mega Man, it's all about having fun. With Dante or Bayonetta or Doom Guy, it's all about beating up some bad guys and being cool af while doing it. With most RPG characters, like Velvet Crowe or Cloud, we get lost in a huge story. There's all kinds of reasons we love a character.

What we don't love are characters where we look at them and go "wow even *I* can do that, what's the point?". It's why sports games will never matter here. It's why pro wrestling is done. And it's exactly why James Sunderland is total fodder. Any one of us could waltz through Silent Hill and do exactly what James Sunderland does. He is nothing special. And deep down, the people who were so happy to get him into a bracket all know it. Silent Hill itself is the star of Silent Hill games, not their lame-ass main characters. The villains and the town are the stars in those games, and when you have that paired with characters who control badly, you have a bad formula for contest strength.

Well that plus Konami being complete and total garbage, but I'm saving that rant for Solid Snake's loss to Samus in the loser's bracket. Fuck Konami.
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While I won't deny that Shantae is fodder, what is your theory as to why she looks better than all those other characters in the X-Stats, even though you think she would lose to the likes of Quiet?
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MetalmindStats posted...

While I won't deny that Shantae is fodder, what is your theory as to why she looks better than all those other characters in the X-Stats, even though you think she would lose to the likes of Quiet?

The order near the bottom means nothing.
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Division 2 Round 1: (7)Pikachu vs (10)Scorpion

(7)Pikachu - 19337 [66.41%]
(10)Scorpion - 9782 [33.59%]
Total Votes - 29119
Prediction Percentage - 81.87%

Scorpion is a very consistent dude in these contests and is a fantastic measuring stick for other characters. He's pretty much the exact definition of a low midcard character that won't ever win anything, but he's always good to have around because he won't ever gain or lose strength. He's worth about 23-25% on Link. Always has, always will. As we all know by now, outside of fourways, which flat-out do not behave like 1v1 and this contest proved that beyond all doubts, Scorpion's only moment of relevance came all the way back in 2002. That's the year he won three matches, including upsetting the 1 seed Pac-Man before getting utterly demolished by Link. Since then, it's been a whole lot of being used as a measuring stick or missing the bracket entirely.

Why do I bring this all up? Because Scorpion helped us see very early this year what a damn monster Pikachu was going to be in this contest. Go back and look at all of Scorpion's losses in his history. I'll even include the LOL 4ways. He has lost to Link, Zero, Auron, Mega Man, Gordon Freeman, Mega Man X & Zero, Sora, and now Pikachu.

In that entire list, only Mega Man in 2007 and the Link match in 2002 had winners more impressive than Pikachu in this match. Pikachu was a damn beast for this entire contest, and we would see it right off the bat. 66% on Scorpion is just nuts. Zero only got 63%. Auron got 65. Doing this really cemented Pikachu in near elite status, and this was before the Detective Pikachu trailer happened. Had that thing come out before the contest he might have broken 70% in this match, which is hilarious to think about given only Link has ever pulled that off.

It also meant poor Kratos was even more screwed than he already was. Dude had no chance.
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NeoElfboy posted...

The PS2 was basically the most dominant console we've seen since at least the NES; it outsold the GameCube and XBox by a factor of like 6. It had pretty much every major franchise the PS1 had, plus a bunch of new ones like Devil May Cry and God of War. It was also very long-lasted, thanks to the mediocre launch of the PS3.

I'd take the PS1 over it on this site, but only because this site worships the late 90's. And yeah SNES of course, since SNES was the last time Nintendo held all the major third-party games, and we loves us some Nintendo.

What's a "major third-party game"? Does Mega Man still count?
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Ulti_PCA posted...

MetalmindStats posted...

While I won't deny that Shantae is fodder, what is your theory as to why she looks better than all those other characters in the X-Stats, even though you think she would lose to the likes of Quiet?

The order near the bottom means nothing.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the X-Stats looking off compared to what you would expect in a direct match isn't something that happens for no reason. In this case, I would argue that Shantae's hardcore fanbase either knew they could vote for their girl without making Yoshi lose or (more likely) were just dedicated enough to vote for her practically regardless of her opponent. In contrast, someone like Dragonborn who essentially doesn't have hardcore fans had the misfortune of going up against a character who also has casual appeal, along with a legitimate fanbase of his own. John Marston faced the same problem, in addition to possible SFF (that we unfortunately have no way of confirming) from Kratos. To me, that's why Shantae looks stronger than those two even though I would take Dragonborn and probably John Marston over her in direct matchups.
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Do you want an explanation for why Shantae is here? Shantae is one of those characters who will boost with Smash despite not being playable- because she's in the higher echelons of wanted characters among the Smash community. It's the same reason Geno came back, too- his popularity solely comes from being one of the most popular characters within the Smash community.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

nah, switch is way too new to accomplish much on this site. PS2 would easily beat it, i'm sure. maybe even NES would beat it.

We did see this poll already:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7388-

I guess I wouldn't rule out NES beating the Switch in a 1v1 match right now. But the longer we go before doing that Console Contest, the stronger the Switch will become as a result of its growing game library.

Even though the NES is an older system than the average site user, NES games in general suffer from the fact that not a huge number of people actually care about the NES games outside of Mario 1, Zelda 1, and Mario 3. And Mario 1/Zelda 1 are weaker than several games in their respective series.
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Division 2 Round 1: (2)Kratos vs (15)John Marston

(2)Kratos - 21310 [73.18%]
(15)John Marston - 7811 [26.82%]
Total Votes - 29121
Prediction Percentage - 87.47%

This was our first major case of SFF this contest, and Marston took it right on the nose. This wasn't some legendarily hilarious case of SFF like Link > Ganondorf in 2004, but it was still brutal to look at. Don't try telling me this isn't SFF, either, because if you look at the final stats Marston is in no way as weak as those stats would suggest. Red Dead Redemption is way too big of a series, even on this site, for the dude to be like bottom 10 in the LOL x stats. His game almost doubled Bayonetta a mere 3 years ago, and then it broke 40% on Shadow of the Colossus. That's pretty respectable. Not crazy strong, but respectable. Then there's that whole Red Dead Redemption 2 thing, which is so huge even South Park did a bit on it.

You know what the prime recipe for SFF is? It isn't sharing a fanbase. Mega Man and Zero share a fanbase. Zero got 44% in that match. SFF happens when you share almost the exact same fanbase and one character is clearly stronger than the other. Kratos and John Marston are both casualbait, strong, male, badass tough guys from major, popular series that had recent blockbusters. But Kratos is clearly out of Marston's league, thanks to a much longer history with the gaming audience. That is exactly how you get matches like this. It's also how you get things like Snake > Tanner and The Legend of Zelda > Adventure. Take two entities in a popularity contest where one is clearly already stronger than the other and it gets ugly quickly. That's what happened here.

Rivalry Rumble aside, did you know Kratos had never broken 61% in a poll before this match? Not once. You don't go from that to 73% by accident when another popular character is involved. This was SFF, plain as day.
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I'd take Shantae over Marston, and indeed anyone on that Xstat list below Aya. Xstats aren't perfect once you start needing to go through lots of characters to compare them (because each individual match has an associated error as a measuring device, see Pikachu vs Mega Man flipping with a slightly different set of circumstances). But they can still give you a rough idea.

There's no reason to believe Shantae is super-piss-weak and I'm not sure why Ulti is so hung up on believing she is. I've heard of her for over a decade now, her games are relatively niche but popular enough for what they are. I don't see much reason for her to be that much weaker than Shovel Knight, another indie platformer darling, who also proved himself.
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NeoElfboy posted...

I'd take Shantae over Marston, and indeed anyone on that Xstat list below Aya. Xstats aren't perfect once you start needing to go through lots of characters to compare them (because each individual match has an associated error as a measuring device, see Pikachu vs Mega Man flipping with a slightly different set of circumstances). But they can still give you a rough idea.

There's no reason to believe Shantae is super-piss-weak and I'm not sure why Ulti is so hung up on believing she is. I've heard of her for over a decade now, her games are relatively niche but popular enough for what they are. I don't see much reason for her to be that much weaker than Shovel Knight, another indie platformer darling, who also proved himself.

You advocated for Shantae to be in Smash, didn't you?
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NeoElfboy posted...

I'd take Shantae over Marston, and indeed anyone on that Xstat list below Aya. Xstats aren't perfect once you start needing to go through lots of characters to compare them (because each individual match has an associated error as a measuring device, see Pikachu vs Mega Man flipping with a slightly different set of circumstances). But they can still give you a rough idea.

There's no reason to believe Shantae is super-piss-weak and I'm not sure why Ulti is so hung up on believing she is. I've heard of her for over a decade now, her games are relatively niche but popular enough for what they are. I don't see much reason for her to be that much weaker than Shovel Knight, another indie platformer darling, who also proved himself.

Nothing turns me off from trying something new quicker than a garbage fanbase. I'm too old for that shit.
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NeoElfboy posted...

There's no reason to believe Shantae is super-piss-weak

I think a better question is what makes some of you think she isn't super-piss-weak? She has a very small fanbase, and an even smaller section of that begging for her to be in Smash (if the Smash beggars even care about her games rather than only seeing Shantae as new R34 fapbait). I'd certainly take Isabelle, Joker, Dragonborn, Edgeworth, Godot, Gordon, D.Va, and some others over her if they ever got matched up.

She's probably at her most well known right now because of her spirit being in Smash Bros, and basically nobody is talking about her outside of the Smash weirdos on this site. Even the people I know to be Shantae fans aren't talking about her; they beat half genie hero ages ago and don't have anything else to discuss atm.
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Ulti_PCA posted...

Red Dead Redemption is way too big of a series, even on this site, for the dude to be like bottom 10 in the LOL x stats. His game almost doubled Bayonetta a mere 3 years ago, and then it broke 40% on Shadow of the Colossus. That's pretty respectable. Not crazy strong, but respectable.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6110-

Red Dead Redemption pulled off that result against Bayonetta 2, which is probably even weaker than the original Bayonetta. It also didn't help that Bayonetta 2 was still a Wii U exclusive at the time of that match, although the entire series has since been ported to the Switch.
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snake_5036 posted...

I'd certainly take Isabelle, Joker, Dragonborn, Edgeworth, Godot, Gordon, D.Va, and some others over her if they ever got matched up.

I can see the rest of the names you mentioned as possible winners against Shantae, to greater or lesser extents of likelihood, but what exactly has a third-tier side character from a highly niche franchise done to merit respect over the main character of a thriving indie franchise? And what kind of weirdness had to happen with those two results for Godot to win straight up despite faring only a bit better on a substantially weaker character?
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That's probably my own bias coming through, but it wouldn't be far-fetched to me. I've known about Ace Attorney long before I ever knew about a Shantae game or character (like, back when the Objection! mrdictionary site was still used everywhere on the internet, thats how long we're talking). Ace attorney is more successful and has much more games to it than Shantae does. Godot is one of the best and most liked characters of that series.

So..... it isn't a stretch, to me.
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Ulti_PCA posted...

Shantae - 16.22
Noctis Lucis Caelum - 15.96
Kazuma Kiryu - 15.95
Yu Narukami - 15.91
Dragonborn - 15.84
Joker / Ren Amamiya - 15.74
Primrose - 15.64
Aya Brea - 15.56
Goro Majima - 15.32
Metal Man - 15.2
D.Va - 14.82
Miles Edgeworth - 14.51
Gordon Freeman - 14.5
James Sunderland - 14.45
Neptune - 14.26
Neku Sakuraba - 14.11
Aloy - 13.95
Godot - 13.86
John Marston - 13.68
Estelle Bright - 13.45
Sans - 13.15
Monokuma - 13.01
Hat Kid - 12.94
Isabelle - 12.76
Victor Sullivan - 12.58
Quiet - 12.13
Cayde-6 - 11.9
Chloe Price - 8.65
Draven - 6.22

These are the ones I'd take over Shantae right now, and most of them I'm only giving the benefit of the doubt because they are attached to respected games/series like FF, Mega Man, or Skyrim. A few of them like Marston, Freeman, and Dragonborn might be underrated due to various reasons. Also, B8 wouldn't let Edgey or Godot drop a close one against characters close to them.

Other than that, I compared her to Laharl circa 2005 in stats topic, and I think it's pretty apt considering they did almost the exact percentage on Yoshi.
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Division 3 Round 1: (1)Sora vs (16)Ryo Hazuki

(1)Sora - 20542 [69.08%]
(16)Ryo Hazuki - 9195 [30.92%]
Total Votes - 29737
Prediction Percentage - 89.05%

This match was never going to be in doubt, but that was not the purpose of this match. Sora's entire job in this match was proving he was worthy of a 1 seed and was capable of beating Pokemon Trainer Red in a highly pro-Nintendo contest. He failed, spectacularly, on both counts right off the bat.

Ryo Hazuki is pretty much a step up from bottom of the barrel sludge. He's the last good drop or two in the barrel before you hit the indigestible cesspit, meaning he'll never be at the bottom in strength, but he always comes really close. This is a guy whose only win is against Guybrush Threepwood, an all time useless piece of trash comparable to Dirk the Daring. This guy let Dante and Yoshi separately almost get 80% on him, and is so irrelevant he's only made 4 of the 10 character battles -- none since 2004 and he only made this one to pad out the roster. He's fodder. No other way to put it. I will say however that his fanbase is awesome. You can tell they legit just love the dude, and never try to force an opinion on anyone. Persona fans, Deus Ex fans, and Shantae fans could do well to learn from Shenmue fans.

Sora couldn't even break 70% on the guy. We've seen a similar omen from a bad 1 seed before against Ryo. Remember this turd of a match? https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/976-east-division-round-2-lara-croft-vs-ryo-hazuki

We've seen this story from Sora before. In 2006, Sora was a 1 seed. He underperformed against Tingle and Gordon Freeman before getting demolished by Mega Man. In 2010, Sora was a 1 seed. He underperformed against Midna and Laharl before getting demolished by Bowser. And then 2018 happens, which we'll get to next round. There were some turds laid as a 2 seed in there, too.

Sora is always able to get high seeding, but he never does anything with it. Did you know Sora has never won a division with all these high seeds he always gets? Not once. The closest he came was when he came 500 votes short in the Rivalry Rumble. I'd love to call 2013 a close call, but failing to advance in a poll against Pikachu and a Pokemon Trainer is just an embarrassment. I don't care how close that poll actually was. Sora should have steamrolled it. Crono lost early and that division was right there. He still couldn't get the job done.

But hey, congrats on getting 69% against Ryo Hazuki in your one win as a 1 seed this year. And I know I'm being hard on the guy, but when you regularly get high seeds, you are held to that standard.
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LusterSoldier posted...

Ulti_PCA posted...

Red Dead Redemption is way too big of a series, even on this site, for the dude to be like bottom 10 in the LOL x stats. His game almost doubled Bayonetta a mere 3 years ago, and then it broke 40% on Shadow of the Colossus. That's pretty respectable. Not crazy strong, but respectable.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6110-

Red Dead Redemption pulled off that result against Bayonetta 2, which is probably even weaker than the original Bayonetta. It also didn't help that Bayonetta 2 was still a Wii U exclusive at the time of that match, although the entire series has since been ported to the Switch.

It wasn't a typo. I meant it as "Bayonetta the series".
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Division 3 Round 1: (8)Neptune vs (9)Pokemon Trainer Red

(8)Neptune - 7341 [24.68%]
(9)Pokemon Trainer Red - 22403 [75.32%]
Total Votes - 29744
Prediction Percentage - 85.53%

While Sora was busy mucking it up against Ryo, Red was out there showing us who's boss and how screwed Sora was in round 2. The only person on Board 8 who actually knew who Neptune was before this contest was SHINE, which says a lot. I love the guy, so no offense to the dude, but he literally plays every single video game and has no life outside of gaming and working. Which is fine. I legit have nothing against that if that's what you want to do with yourself. You do you bro. For those of us with other interests, this match might as well have had Neptune the planet or Neptune the Roman god in it. I don't even want to know who the freaks are that got Neptune the video game pedophile simulator all the way up to an 8 seed.

Oh wait, one look at the characters tells us exactly who they are. They're lolicon fans. Looking at underaged Japanophile cartoon boobs and ass bouncing around because you're too scared of the FBI to look at the real thing doesn't make you any less of a pedophile. Go vote for Roy Moore some more and get the hell out of my life. Thankfully Board 8 has almost none of these people left on it, but they're out there in the world at large and need to be called out whenever possible.

Red was doing the lord's work in beating the hell out of this trash and all the freaks who support that subculture, and when compared to Sora > Ryo, it was no contest who looked better. Red got a better score, and despite a much worse seeding, his prediction percentage for the round was only 4% lower. All the signs of what was coming were there, and that wasn't even counting the esoteric stuff like Smash hype, this being Nintendo's year, and so forth. A Kingdom Hearts 3 hype video just couldn't compete with all that.
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Pleasantly surprised at no Rockstar bashing.
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Ulti_PCA posted...

We've seen this story from Sora before. In 2006, Sora was a 1 seed. He underperformed against Tingle and Gordon Freeman before getting demolished by Mega Man.

In what universe is 46% on Mega Man 'getting demolished'? Unless you think Sora was supposed to boost from generic midcarder status to a Noble Nine breaker purely on account of KH2, that's an excellent result. For whatever reason, Sora is one of those characters who always underperforms against fodder before doing relatively better against stronger characters, and that was never the case more than in 2006.

Also, characters below Shantae in the X-Stats I would take over her straight up:
- Definitely: Dragonborn, Joker
- Possibly: Noctis Lucis Caelum, Aya Brea, Metal Man, D.Va, Miles Edgeworth (who is almost certainly underrated in these stats due to SFF), Gordon Freeman, John Marston, Isabelle (also a possible victim of SFF)
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Ulti_PCA posted...

Instead of white knighting pixel boobs, try hitting the gym so you guys can have the real thing once in awhile. Some of you clearly need it. Which is fine. We all start somewhere.

At this point of the analysis, I imagined this being said by Robert Frank.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Pleasantly surprised at no Rockstar bashing.

To be fair, Marston's the only Rockstar character in this year's contest, another big surprise. There would probably be bashing if anyone from GTA made it, but usually Marston avoids it (and Max Payne before he was outvoted by Guybrush in 2013)
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I never noticed Shantae fans to be all that bad, but I also have barely seen any.

Deus Ex fans obviously after the Rock Band day here have the image of being awful.

Persona fans are no different than any other jRPG high school dating sim/suicide fan group. They think theirs is the best.

(That is what Persona is about right? A Japanese high school, dating and suicide?)
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I think RDR2 didnt really market Marston being in all that much, which might be why he did so poorly

Arthur Morgan is better anyway
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Whiskey_Nick posted...

Persona fans are no different than any other jRPG high school dating sim/suicide fan group. They think theirs is the best.

(That is what Persona is about right? A Japanese high school, dating and suicide?)

You're... not that far off. Personas 3-5 take place in high school (somewhat), and there's dating involved if you go that route.

I didn't meet a hardcore obnoxious Persona fan that fit Ulti's description until I joined the Army. While 4 and 5 are all time favorites for me, I can see why some don't like them.

And it took a lot of time for Persona to get as good as it is cause the first few games range from mediocre to unbearable
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I can see why people would be happy to have James in the game. I do feel that the town and the protagonists work in tandem in order to make an interesting combination - it's why James and Heather stand out compared to Harry and Robert, for instance. Playing with the inherent insecurities of the character makes for a unique emotional connection where you can't project yourself onto the character because James is kind of a terrible person. Makes for a very interesting and exciting MC, but not one with any sort of casual appeal.

It's like nominating The Narrator from Fight Club instead of Tyler Durden - yeah you're getting the point of the whole thing, but one of them is WAY more marketable.
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You're making me want a favorite book character contest now

wonder who'd win it?
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Ulti_PCA posted...

Oh wait, one look at the characters tells us exactly who they are. They're lolicon fans. Looking at underaged Japanophile cartoon boobs and ass bouncing around because you're too scared of the FBI to look at the real thing doesn't make you any less of a pedophile. Go vote for Roy Moore some more and get the hell out of my life. Thankfully Board 8 has almost none of these people left on it, but they're out there in the world at large and need to be called out whenever possible.

Hey Ulti, remember when you were asking about what kind of people keep insisting Shantae is good? Because I'm pretty sure they and the lolicons are one and the same.
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I got Neptunia Rebirth 1 on Steam because it always goes on ridiculous sales. For the regular price it is nowhere near worth it, since it has a stupid story and exceptionally repetitive gameplay. It has funny moments and was overall amusing, though, so it made for a fun distraction from studying. Strongly doubt I will continue with the series, even if they go on good sales.
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Harry Potter, probably
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Is Neptunia really a lolicon game or Ulti thinks so because it has young anime girls in it

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Is Neptunia really a lolicon game or Ulti thinks so because it has young anime girls in it

It's not really a lolicon game, but it is about lesbians, some of whom do indeed look like twelve year-olds. I'm basing this analysis on what I've seen online, I haven't actually played the series.
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It's not something like Touhou (never played Touhou, this is just based on what I've heard), more just cute funny and stupid. I remember someone on reddit calling it "comfort food in JRPG form" and that's pretty much what it is.
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handsomeboy2012 posted...

Is Neptunia really a lolicon game or Ulti thinks so because it has young anime girls in it

the latter

it's mainly a series that pokes fun at the video game industry with many references to many video games dating back all the way to the Atari consoles.
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I used to follow a YouTuber who was a huge fan of Shantae and Hyperdimension Neptunia.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just ecchi. I saw a clip of it in the /v/GAs, and it features two scantily-clad chicks comparing tit sizes and calling the other "flat".
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I was legit going for Robert Frank there.
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Shantae was a serviceable enough game. I don't remember it being so popular when it was released; did I miss something then?
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Ytterbicide posted...

Shantae was a serviceable enough game. I don't remember it being so popular when it was released; did I miss something then?

A whole lot of people going crazy and demanding she be in Smash because they want more tits.
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