Board 8 > Do you think game of thrones belongs on lists of the top tv shows ever?

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JebronLames 05/20/19 7:40:05 PM #1:	do you --- "I've always wanted there to be nothing between us, now there's not" <cite>JebronLames posted [p:922155768] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>do you</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Snrkiko 05/20/19 7:41:50 PM #2:	despite my issues with it, yes i do --- ...Snrk. And theeen, we do stuff like, 'Persona!' with our Personas and beat the crap outta Shadows... <cite>Snrkiko posted [p:922155830] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>despite my issues with it, yes i do</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JebronLames 05/20/19 7:42:48 PM #3:	what place would you put it in? --- "I've always wanted there to be nothing between us, now there's not" <cite>JebronLames posted [p:922155858] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>what place would you put it in?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PButterAndJelly 05/20/19 7:52:49 PM #4:	Never seen an episode in my life. <cite>PButterAndJelly posted [p:922156254] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Never seen an episode in my life.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ngamer64 05/20/19 7:57:29 PM #5:	How long a list are we talking here? Top Five? No. Top Ten? Maybe. --- Advo bested even The Show hosts in 2018, yowza! board8.wikia.com \| thengamer.com/xstats <cite>Ngamer64 posted [p:922156404] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>How long a list are we talking here? Top Five? No. Top Ten? Maybe. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Underleveled 05/20/19 8:00:16 PM #6:	In terms of being a cultural phenomenon, there are few others that can match the impact it had, and even fewer that can say they remained such a cultural phenomenon for so long. --- darkx Score: There goes bracket <cite>Underleveled posted [p:922156496] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>In terms of being a cultural phenomenon, there are few others that can match the impact it had, and even fewer that can say they remained such a cultural phenomenon for so long.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scarletspeed7 05/20/19 8:05:46 PM #7:	By most metrics, it belongs in the upper echelon. --- "It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful <cite>scarletspeed7 posted [p:922156744] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>By most metrics, it belongs in the upper echelon.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Snrkiko 05/20/19 8:08:59 PM #8:	scarletspeed7 posted... By most metrics, it belongs in the upper echelon. would you say it has a good story --- ...Snrk. And theeen, we do stuff like, 'Persona!' with our Personas and beat the crap outta Shadows... <cite>Snrkiko posted [p:922156869] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote><cite>scarletspeed7 posted...</cite> <quote>By most metrics, it belongs in the upper echelon.</quote> would you say it has a good story</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ChaosTonyV4 05/20/19 8:09:48 PM #9:	Definitely, the first few seasons are some of the best TV...ever. --- Phantom Dust. "I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado <cite>ChaosTonyV4 posted [p:922156918] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Definitely, the first few seasons are some of the best TV...ever.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SwiftyDC 05/20/19 8:17:50 PM #10:	Yes. --- Dilated Chemist All hail Advokaiser, our Guru Champion! <cite>SwiftyDC posted [p:922157239] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Yes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Xeybozn 05/20/19 8:20:56 PM #11:	No, because we don't need "best TV show lists". A list would imply there are multiple contenders for best show, but Game of Thrones is so great that absolutely nothing else the human race has ever accomplished deserves to be compared to it. ~~Actually, I've never seen even an episode of GoT. Apparently internet people are mad at it now, I guess? But everyone else still loves it?~~ --- Congrats to 2019 Guru champ Advokaiser! <cite>Xeybozn posted [p:922157367] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>No, because we don't need "best TV show lists". A list would imply there are multiple contenders for best show, but Game of Thrones is so great that absolutely nothing else the human race has ever accomplished deserves to be compared to it. Actually, I've never seen even an episode of GoT. Apparently internet people are mad at it now, I guess? But everyone else still loves it?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KokoroAkechi 05/20/19 8:22:40 PM #12:	Ngamer64 posted... How long a list are we talking here? Top Five? No. Top Ten? Maybe. Probably agree with this. I think even at 10 it might have a hard time sneaking in. There was been a lot of TV. There's an argument that its barely the third best show that has aired on HBO --- Kokoro's Anime Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaIA0gY11FQ_Zh6kLSam5OA Updated: July 27th, 2016. <cite>KokoroAkechi posted [p:922157429] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ngamer64 posted...</cite> <quote>How long a list are we talking here? Top Five? No. Top Ten? Maybe. </quote> Probably agree with this. I think even at 10 it might have a hard time sneaking in. There was been a lot of TV. There's an argument that its barely the third best show that has aired on HBO</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket 05/20/19 8:31:33 PM #13:	KokoroAkechi posted... Ngamer64 posted... How long a list are we talking here? Top Five? No. Top Ten? Maybe. Probably agree with this. I think even at 10 it might have a hard time sneaking in. There was been a lot of TV. There's an argument that its barely the third best show that has aired on HBO What are the other two? --- It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest <cite>redrocket posted [p:922157801] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote><cite>KokoroAkechi posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Ngamer64 posted...</cite> <quote>How long a list are we talking here? Top Five? No. Top Ten? Maybe. </quote> Probably agree with this. I think even at 10 it might have a hard time sneaking in. There was been a lot of TV. There's an argument that its barely the third best show that has aired on HBO</quote> What are the other two?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 05/20/19 8:33:42 PM #14:	Underleveled posted... In terms of being a cultural phenomenon, there are few others that can match the impact it had, and even fewer that can say they remained such a cultural phenomenon for so long. Yeah, it definitely has a tier of its own beyond that I can think of maybe LOST and Breaking Bad being cultural phenomenons during their time but I'd argue neither got close to Game of Thrones' level --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:922157876] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote><cite>Underleveled posted...</cite> <quote>In terms of being a cultural phenomenon, there are few others that can match the impact it had, and even fewer that can say they remained such a cultural phenomenon for so long.</quote> Yeah, it definitely has a tier of its own beyond that I can think of maybe LOST and Breaking Bad being cultural phenomenons during their time but I'd argue neither got close to Game of Thrones' level</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 05/20/19 8:41:44 PM #15:	culturally speaking it's in the top ten in my lifetime i think. shows like lost dropped in popularity as they got deeper (due to predating the streaming era, mostly) and it might be the last one to get this universally huge in a long time. --- yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:922158252] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>culturally speaking it's in the top ten in my lifetime i think. shows like lost dropped in popularity as they got deeper (due to predating the streaming era, mostly) and it might be the last one to get this universally huge in a long time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 05/20/19 9:02:06 PM #16:	Johnbobb posted... Underleveled posted... In terms of being a cultural phenomenon, there are few others that can match the impact it had, and even fewer that can say they remained such a cultural phenomenon for so long. Yeah, it definitely has a tier of its own beyond that I can think of maybe LOST and Breaking Bad being cultural phenomenons during their time but I'd argue neither got close to Game of Thrones' level Nah, Lost was bigger --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:922159121] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote><cite>Johnbobb posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Underleveled posted...</cite> <quote>In terms of being a cultural phenomenon, there are few others that can match the impact it had, and even fewer that can say they remained such a cultural phenomenon for so long.</quote> Yeah, it definitely has a tier of its own beyond that I can think of maybe LOST and Breaking Bad being cultural phenomenons during their time but I'd argue neither got close to Game of Thrones' level</quote> Nah, Lost was bigger</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Pokewars 05/20/19 9:18:34 PM #17:	I love Lost and actually, despite not feeling much of the later seasons, enjoyed the finale. Game of Thrones is easily bigger. --- https://imgur.com/Lu19FQt <cite>Pokewars posted [p:922159781] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>I love Lost and actually, despite not feeling much of the later seasons, enjoyed the finale. Game of Thrones is easily bigger.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leafeon13N 05/20/19 9:25:05 PM #18:	Without streaming it was impossible for lost to be bigger. You simply couldn't sustain an audience without today's level of accessibility. <cite>Leafeon13N posted [p:922160041] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Without streaming it was impossible for lost to be bigger. You simply couldn't sustain an audience without today's level of accessibility.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KokoroAkechi 05/20/19 9:30:07 PM #19:	redrocket posted... KokoroAkechi posted... Ngamer64 posted... How long a list are we talking here? Top Five? No. Top Ten? Maybe. Probably agree with this. I think even at 10 it might have a hard time sneaking in. There was been a lot of TV. There's an argument that its barely the third best show that has aired on HBO What are the other two? The Sopranos and The Wire --- Kokoro's Anime Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaIA0gY11FQ_Zh6kLSam5OA Updated: July 27th, 2016. <cite>KokoroAkechi posted [p:922160258] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote><cite>redrocket posted...</cite> <quote><cite>KokoroAkechi posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Ngamer64 posted...</cite> <quote>How long a list are we talking here? Top Five? No. Top Ten? Maybe. </quote> Probably agree with this. I think even at 10 it might have a hard time sneaking in. There was been a lot of TV. There's an argument that its barely the third best show that has aired on HBO</quote> What are the other two?</quote> The Sopranos and The Wire</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Xiahou Shake 05/20/19 9:37:27 PM #20:	You can't even argue it's anywhere other than the #1 spot if you're talking pure cultural impact, unfair of a comparison as it is against the world before social media and streaming. If you're talking quality, I feel like the show's peak is pretty high up there, but overall it probably dips into top 10 or 15. --- Let the voice of love take you higher, With this gathering power, go beyond even time! <cite>Xiahou Shake posted [p:922160583] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>You can't even argue it's anywhere other than the #1 spot if you're talking pure cultural impact, unfair of a comparison as it is against the world before social media and streaming. If you're talking quality, I feel like the show's peak is pretty high up there, but overall it probably dips into top 10 or 15.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KokoroAkechi 05/20/19 9:43:39 PM #21:	I dont know, like even with cultural impact we have things like The Simpsons, Star Trek, and CSI. You could probably argue that something as old as I Love Lucy belongs in the list. --- Kokoro's Anime Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaIA0gY11FQ_Zh6kLSam5OA Updated: July 27th, 2016. <cite>KokoroAkechi posted [p:922160835] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>I dont know, like even with cultural impact we have things like The Simpsons, Star Trek, and CSI. You could probably argue that something as old as I Love Lucy belongs in the list.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ngamer64 05/20/19 10:46:07 PM #22:	HanOfTheNekos posted... Johnbobb posted... Underleveled posted... In terms of being a cultural phenomenon, there are few others that can match the impact it had, and even fewer that can say they remained such a cultural phenomenon for so long. Yeah, it definitely has a tier of its own beyond that I can think of maybe LOST and Breaking Bad being cultural phenomenons during their time but I'd argue neither got close to Game of Thrones' level Nah, Lost was bigger I don't know about that... if we go purely by how many people watched live, LOST peaked at 23 million tuning in versus the 19 million Game of Thrones got to this season, so it's technically true. But - that's free TV versus the most expensive cable package - it's so much harder to draw live viewers 15 years later - when you add in one week's worth of non-live streaming, 45 million people watched GoT this season - LOST's popularity peaked in S2 and tumbled from there; only 10 million tuned in for the final season on average, while interest in Thrones kept shooting up every year --- Advo bested even The Show hosts in 2018, yowza! board8.wikia.com \| thengamer.com/xstats <cite>Ngamer64 posted [p:922163601] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote><cite>HanOfTheNekos posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Johnbobb posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Underleveled posted...</cite> <quote>In terms of being a cultural phenomenon, there are few others that can match the impact it had, and even fewer that can say they remained such a cultural phenomenon for so long.</quote> Yeah, it definitely has a tier of its own beyond that I can think of maybe LOST and Breaking Bad being cultural phenomenons during their time but I'd argue neither got close to Game of Thrones' level</quote> Nah, Lost was bigger</quote> I don't know about that... if we go purely by how many people watched live, LOST peaked at 23 million tuning in versus the 19 million Game of Thrones got to this season, so it's technically true. But - that's free TV versus the most expensive cable package - it's so much harder to draw live viewers 15 years later - when you add in one week's worth of non-live streaming, 45 million people watched GoT this season - LOST's popularity peaked in S2 and tumbled from there; only 10 million tuned in for the final season on average, while interest in Thrones kept shooting up every year </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 05/20/19 10:53:35 PM #23:	At what point did GoT pass Lost's season 1 numbers? --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:922163926] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>At what point did GoT pass Lost's season 1 numbers?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamikazePotato 05/20/19 11:02:33 PM #24:	Game of Thrones is waaaay bigger than LOST. --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. <cite>KamikazePotato posted [p:922164248] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Game of Thrones is waaaay bigger than LOST.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Pokewars 05/20/19 11:03:45 PM #25:	Lost had a really big 1st season. Wasn't really able to sustain that crazy level though. Still pretty huge. --- https://imgur.com/Lu19FQt <cite>Pokewars posted [p:922164290] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Lost had a really big 1st season. Wasn't really able to sustain that crazy level though. Still pretty huge.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ngamer64 05/20/19 11:07:08 PM #26:	Lost did 15 to 18 million per episode in S1, which Thrones didn't reach until S7. But like I said, it tumbled after the first two years and dipped to around 10 million in the last three seasons, which Thrones topped in S5, 6, 7, and 8. --- Advo bested even The Show hosts in 2018, yowza! board8.wikia.com \| thengamer.com/xstats <cite>Ngamer64 posted [p:922164394] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Lost did 15 to 18 million per episode in S1, which Thrones didn't reach until S7. But like I said, it tumbled after the first two years and dipped to around 10 million in the last three seasons, which Thrones topped in S5, 6, 7, and 8. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Leafeon13N 05/20/19 11:16:07 PM #27:	Basically, Lost was undeniably huge but GOT took it to a level above in part due to improved technology. RIP HBO though. It is all downhill from here. <cite>Leafeon13N posted [p:922164678] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Basically, Lost was undeniably huge but GOT took it to a level above in part due to improved technology. RIP HBO though. It is all downhill from here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 05/20/19 11:21:22 PM #28:	In terms of cultural impact/how "big"/popular it was... I mean there's no question. In terms of quality, I'd say no. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:922164887] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>In terms of cultural impact/how "big"/popular it was... I mean there's no question. In terms of quality, I'd say no.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ExThaNemesis 05/20/19 11:32:53 PM #29:	Game Of Thrones gave us all such a wonderful shared experience on Sunday nights that I can't really put words to how important it was. Its highs were EXTREMELY high and it features some of the best acting, cinematography, and directing I've seen. I want to give it some time before I rank it, just to digest the ending further. It's not exactly their fault that they ran out of source material and fatass quit writing, but they could've worked to make the ending more satisfactory. --- "undertale hangs out with mido" - ZFS Smash Ultimate Switch Code: SW-6933-1523-8505 <cite>ExThaNemesis posted [p:922165333] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Game Of Thrones gave us all such a wonderful shared experience on Sunday nights that I can't really put words to how important it was. Its highs were EXTREMELY high and it features some of the best acting, cinematography, and directing I've seen. I want to give it some time before I rank it, just to digest the ending further. It's not exactly their fault that they ran out of source material and fatass quit writing, but they could've worked to make the ending more satisfactory.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HanOfTheNekos 05/21/19 8:45:02 AM #30:	So if GoT was only 6 seasons then it wouldn't have shown as much strength. Casual internet use is a huge advantage GoT had (and the Writer's strike really hurt Lost), but the crux of my point is that it took years to really get the ball rolling with GoT, whereas Lost was big pretty instantly (which also gave it room to have people drop it). So while I'd consider them in the same class, I can accept GoT being bigger but it required time and pervasive internet presence to overcome the HBO subscription barrier to get the comparable numbers. --- "Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic <cite>HanOfTheNekos posted [p:922176060] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>So if GoT was only 6 seasons then it wouldn't have shown as much strength. Casual internet use is a huge advantage GoT had (and the Writer's strike really hurt Lost), but the crux of my point is that it took years to really get the ball rolling with GoT, whereas Lost was big pretty instantly (which also gave it room to have people drop it). So while I'd consider them in the same class, I can accept GoT being bigger but it required time and pervasive internet presence to overcome the HBO subscription barrier to get the comparable numbers.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor 05/21/19 2:39:37 PM #31:	In terms of influence, it may be the most talked about in the past 5 years, but there is usually one of those cultural water cooler icons every few years. Top 10 culturally influential shows are probably all sitcoms Mash, Cheers, Seinfeld, South Park, Simpsons, Friends, etc How many phrases and jokes that are an inextricable part of our culture came from these shows? So many! How much of GoT's themes will be around in five years? I feel like Monty python and the holy grail was more influential than all 8 seasons combined A more direct comparison to GoT in terms of water cooler power would be breaking bad. Maybe throw in Lost, The Walking Dead, Battlestar Galactica, probably others I wasnt aware of. I can't speak to quality, but in influence, while high in the drama genre I don't think it's near the overall top --- You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured. <cite>banananor posted [p:922188192] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>In terms of influence, it may be the most talked about in the past 5 years, but there is usually one of those cultural water cooler icons every few years. Top 10 culturally influential shows are probably all sitcoms Mash, Cheers, Seinfeld, South Park, Simpsons, Friends, etc How many phrases and jokes that are an inextricable part of our culture came from these shows? So many! How much of GoT's themes will be around in five years? I feel like Monty python and the holy grail was more influential than all 8 seasons combined A more direct comparison to GoT in terms of water cooler power would be breaking bad. Maybe throw in Lost, The Walking Dead, Battlestar Galactica, probably others I wasnt aware of. I can't speak to quality, but in influence, while high in the drama genre I don't think it's near the overall top</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scarletspeed7 05/21/19 2:52:38 PM #32:	Remember that Breaking Bad actually wasn't hitting cultural influence until its last season. It had more impact after its show ran than during, weirdly. --- "It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful <cite>scarletspeed7 posted [p:922188689] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Remember that Breaking Bad actually wasn't hitting cultural influence until its last season. It had more impact after its show ran than during, weirdly.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroicSpiderPig 05/21/19 4:26:44 PM #33:	Game of Thrones probably beats out Lost in cultural influence, but I wouldn't really consider that the pinnacle of cultural influence that it needs to be judged against. I mean if we're limiting things to post-2000, sure that's a useful benchmark, but not overall. Even if you're limiting things just to serialized drama, Dallas and Dynasty would be the shows you'd want to compare it to in that respect. --- Congrats on Advokaiser for winning the 2018 Guru Contest! Yesmar <cite>HeroicSpiderPig posted [p:922192665] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Game of Thrones probably beats out Lost in cultural influence, but I wouldn't really consider that the pinnacle of cultural influence that it needs to be judged against. I mean if we're limiting things to post-2000, sure that's a useful benchmark, but not overall. Even if you're limiting things just to serialized drama, Dallas and Dynasty would be the shows you'd want to compare it to in that respect.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nanis23 05/21/19 4:30:47 PM #34:	Of course it is Don't let the bad last 2 seasons make you think otherwise --- wololo <cite>Nanis23 posted [p:922192855] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Of course it is Don't let the bad last 2 seasons make you think otherwise</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_stingers_ 05/21/19 4:53:54 PM #35:	I mean if you rank it up to the last 2 seasons then easily top 5 no questions but man they really dropped the ball. I think its hard to say right away --- Congrats Black Turtle! <cite>_stingers_ posted [p:922193799] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>I mean if you rank it up to the last 2 seasons then easily top 5 no questions but man they really dropped the ball. I think its hard to say right away</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GANON1025 05/21/19 4:56:32 PM #36:	Oh HELL yeah dude --- https://imgur.com/G17qCv1 <cite>GANON1025 posted [p:922193899] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote>Oh HELL yeah dude</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZeroSignal620 05/21/19 8:02:43 PM #37:	Ngamer64 posted... Lost did 15 to 18 million per episode in S1, which Thrones didn't reach until S7. Lost was also available to everyone. HBO isn't. --- Formerly known as Raven 2 http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/ZeroSignal620.png <cite>ZeroSignal620 posted [p:922201086] in Do you thi... [t:77728993]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ngamer64 posted...</cite> <quote>Lost did 15 to 18 million per episode in S1, which Thrones didn't reach until S7.</quote> Lost was also available to everyone. HBO isn't.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Do you think game of thrones belongs on lists of the top tv shows ever? (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Do you think game of thrones belongs on lists of the top tv shows ever?