Poll of the Day > Join me on my journey to an alternative sleep cycle! Less sleep, more work!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hey all,

I recently started what I am calling the Jordan Sleep Cycle (JSC) which is basically an alternate form of the dymaxion sleep cycle developed by Buckminster Fuller. Essentially, the idea is instead of all your sleep all at once, you split it into smaller naps that are more efficient and therefore you need less total sleep.

What I am aiming for is 4 thirty minute naps totaling two hours of sleep per 24 hour period. With my schedule, I am attempting to do this at 12:00am, 6:00am, 12:00pm, and 6:00pm with some flexibility. I'm gradually moving into the cycle and have created a youtube/vlog that walks through my journey from day one.

I would love to get your guys' feedback and let me know if there is any advice I should be following.

The channel, for those that are curious to see me borderline insane and trying to stabalize, is below:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUqYvqGwAbtsXaaM54nRJgQ
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These things always sound dumb to me because I can rarely even fall asleep in 30 minutes, so how am I supposed to sleep for just 30? When I have a lack of sleep it's rarely a lack of effort, it's lack of literal physical/mental ability to do so. The extra 6 hours each day I guess would be nice but honestly not even remotely worth the effort and high probability of failure and schedule inconvenience. I'm still trying to crack normal sleep here.

Also isn't there a lack of scientific evidence to these things being beneficial/healthy?

Its seems like a waste of time unless youre going to do something with those extra hours. Personally, I would rather use them to sleep. For people who need more hours in the day, or work longer days, they do this automatically. Without having to just want to change their sleep cycle. I know plenty of people who have done similar things because they had multiple jobs that required them only getting a little bit of sleep per day. Until they had enough time to crash for a whole day to actually get rested up...

JSebastianBach posted...

Also isn't there a lack of scientific evidence to these things being beneficial/healthy?

Theres a lack of science for what sleep is. I say this because there are plenty of studies done on sleeping. But they all come up different. And lots of stuff dont even make sense. They say that for people, some just need less sleep. And theres not really a reason for it. Sleeping is just weird all together...
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JSebastianBach posted...

These things always sound dumb to me because I can rarely even fall asleep in 30 minutes, so how am I supposed to sleep for just 30? When I have a lack of sleep it's rarely a lack of effort, it's lack of literal physical/mental ability to do so. The extra 6 hours each day I guess would be nice but honestly not even remotely worth the effort and high probability of failure and schedule inconvenience. I'm still trying to crack normal sleep here.

Also isn't there a lack of scientific evidence to these things being beneficial/healthy?

Everyone is different I suppose. As I'm wrapping up three weeks of around three and a half hours per day of sleep (gradually working towards the two hours per day), I can say that I have had positive experiences for the most part. I have gotten a lot better at taking naps and falling asleep quickly.

Concerning the health concerns, as with anything, there are risks/rewards. I believe most of the risks are largely overestimated.
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LinkPizza posted...

Its seems like a waste of time unless youre going to do something with those extra hours. Personally, I would rather use them to sleep. For people who need more hours in the day, or work longer days, they do this automatically. Without having to just want to change their sleep cycle. I know plenty of people who have done similar things because they had multiple jobs that required them only getting a little bit of sleep per day. Until they had enough time to crash for a whole day to actually get rested up...

JSebastianBach posted...

Also isn't there a lack of scientific evidence to these things being beneficial/healthy?

Theres a lack of science for what sleep is. I say this because there are plenty of studies done on sleeping. But they all come up different. And lots of stuff dont even make sense. They say that for people, some just need less sleep. And theres not really a reason for it. Sleeping is just weird all together...

I have a very busy schedule and this was brought as an effort to both catch up on all the work I do and have free time for personal development and social relationships. It seems to be going well and I want to keep pushing the limits of minimal sleep without incurring negative health benefits.

Additionally, I concur that sleep is odd and the research done is not nearly as scientific as say nutrition or other aspects of health.
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refureeman posted...

Everyone is different I suppose. As I'm wrapping up three weeks of around three and a half hours per day of sleep (gradually working towards the two hours per day), I can say that I have had positive experiences for the most part. I have gotten a lot better at taking naps and falling asleep quickly.

Most people can change their sleep schedule easily enough with time. Learning how to fall asleep faster isn't too hard. But will probably become easier if people are tired because they aren't getting "enough sleep".

refureeman posted...

Concerning the health concerns, as with anything, there are risks/rewards. I believe most of the risks are largely overestimated.

I feel the rewards are overestimated, as well. Most people I know want more time in the day, but usually not at the expanse of sleep. Or else, they would have done it already. And lots of people I know usually want more time in the day so they can sleep longer. So, this would be a waste to them as they are getting less of the thing they want more time for...

refureeman posted...

I have a very busy schedule and this was brought as an effort to both catch up on all the work I do and have free time for personal development and social relationships. It seems to be going well and I want to keep pushing the limits of minimal sleep without incurring negative health benefits.

For you, it may work. Personally, I'm not going to do it unless I need more time. But I'm still not really going to fully do it this way. Just basically working a bunch and sleeping when the opportunity presents itself. The only benefit for me would be getting stuff done. But I would definitely sleep longer when I could. I see no benefit for me to incorporate it into my life full time. Or even part-time, really. But if it works for you, that's good. And it sounds like you would rather have the extra time for things other than sleep. So, whatever works for you.

refureeman posted...

Additionally, I concur that sleep is odd and the research done is not nearly as scientific as say nutrition or other aspects of health.

It's not really their fault, though. Sleep is just strange and weird. Nobody knows what it's exactly for or how long people should sleep on average. It mostly just guessing or guessing with science. But still just mostly guessing, apparently...
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I don't get how this really helps if you have a busy schedule. Breaking up the conventional day twice (and IIRC the similarly-touted Ubermensch does this even more) doesn't sound super convenient to me. Plus what are you really gonna get done in the middle of the night, the hours you're gaining, that's all that important? It's not a good time to go outside, businesses are closed, and even if you have a remote job, you'd be lucky if they were actually trusting enough to let you work during odd hours.

JSebastianBach posted...

I don't get how this really helps if you have a busy schedule. Breaking up the conventional day twice (and IIRC the similarly-touted Ubermensch does this even more) doesn't sound super convenient to me. Plus what are you really gonna get done in the middle of the night, the hours you're gaining, that's all that important? It's not a good time to go outside, businesses are closed, and even if you have a remote job, you'd be lucky if they were actually trusting enough to let you work during odd hours.

It depends on a lot of things. I think hes trying to basically find a way to have more time up. But it depends on what extra stuff he needs to get done. And his job. I know in the Air Force, my normal shift was 11pm-7am. So that took care of the night when things we close. Meaning most thing we open when I was off. He could have a night shift job that would allow him to do that. Or another job where it doesnt mater when they work as long as they get the work done.

Theres also the fact that it seems he wants more social time with people, as well. Some people have jobs at odd hours. I usually talk to my mom a little before and after midnight due to her working night shifts a lot more these days. Plus, he could spend extra time with an SO at anytime theyre both home.

He could also study around that time. For college or other classes or whatever. As for going outside, it just depends on your area...

Personally, I agree that it sounds kind of inconvenient. But it seems to work for him, so...

I understand it, I guess...
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Use it to study Chinese!
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bro you're gonna die
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That won't work for long. Your body will just give one day and you'll be late for work. I sleep on average four hours per night, then after work on Friday I'll usually sleep about six, stay up all night, then sleep until noon on Saturday.
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A friend of mine tried doing this in college. It all fell apart after a few days. I'm convinced that this entire idea is nonsense and that sleeping so little every day is utterly impractical in the long run.

Give it a try, but don't hurt yourself.
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JSebastianBach posted...

I don't get how this really helps if you have a busy schedule. Breaking up the conventional day twice (and IIRC the similarly-touted Ubermensch does this even more) doesn't sound super convenient to me. Plus what are you really gonna get done in the middle of the night, the hours you're gaining, that's all that important? It's not a good time to go outside, businesses are closed, and even if you have a remote job, you'd be lucky if they were actually trusting enough to let you work during odd hours.

Concerning the convenience of breaking up the day, I generally do the four thirty minute naps at midnight, 6:00am (before work), noon (during lunch), and 6:00pm (after work) so it works pretty smoothly. It's ultimate the difference of about 7 hours of sleep per day vs 2-3 (which is the long term goal). 4-5 hours per day is significant.

Concerning how I spend that time, I do my Master's degree, some accounting/finance work for my side businesses, grocery shopping at 24 hour stores, and I go to the gym sometime between 2-5am. Additionally, I sometimes play video games or watch movies or other things I didn't have time for before.
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jramirez23 posted...

Use it to study Chinese!

I'm learning chess but Chinese would have good business use. I'd likely learn other languages first though.
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LinkPizza posted...

JSebastianBach posted...

I don't get how this really helps if you have a busy schedule. Breaking up the conventional day twice (and IIRC the similarly-touted Ubermensch does this even more) doesn't sound super convenient to me. Plus what are you really gonna get done in the middle of the night, the hours you're gaining, that's all that important? It's not a good time to go outside, businesses are closed, and even if you have a remote job, you'd be lucky if they were actually trusting enough to let you work during odd hours.

It depends on a lot of things. I think hes trying to basically find a way to have more time up. But it depends on what extra stuff he needs to get done. And his job. I know in the Air Force, my normal shift was 11pm-7am. So that took care of the night when things we close. Meaning most thing we open when I was off. He could have a night shift job that would allow him to do that. Or another job where it doesnt mater when they work as long as they get the work done.

Theres also the fact that it seems he wants more social time with people, as well. Some people have jobs at odd hours. I usually talk to my mom a little before and after midnight due to her working night shifts a lot more these days. Plus, he could spend extra time with an SO at anytime theyre both home.

He could also study around that time. For college or other classes or whatever. As for going outside, it just depends on your area...

Personally, I agree that it sounds kind of inconvenient. But it seems to work for him, so...

I understand it, I guess...

To be clear, my primary job is an 8am-5pm schedule. With that said, the gym, learning chess, movies/video games, my master's degree, and my side work can all be done late at night/early in the morning.
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TheWitchMorgana posted...

bro you're gonna die

I don't think so. Buckminster Fuller who invented the cycle lived to 88 at a time when the average age was a lot lower than that. Again, I am always willing to adjust if I see real evidence concerning the health impacts.
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funkyfritter posted...

A friend of mine tried doing this in college. It all fell apart after a few days. I'm convinced that this entire idea is nonsense and that sleeping so little every day is utterly impractical in the long run.

Give it a try, but don't hurt yourself.

Take a look at my youtube channel documenting it. I'm far from the 2 hours per day (averaging around 3.5 or so now) but I think I can get to sub 3. I'm also three weeks in now so things are getting more normal.
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zebatov posted...

That won't work for long. Your body will just give one day and you'll be late for work. I sleep on average four hours per night, then after work on Friday I'll usually sleep about six, stay up all night, then sleep until noon on Saturday.

We'll see. I'm approaching three weeks in now but I'm also not at 2 hours yet (I'm gradually getting there at close to 3.5 per day now).
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funkyfritter posted...

A friend of mine tried doing this in college. It all fell apart after a few days. I'm convinced that this entire idea is nonsense and that sleeping so little every day is utterly impractical in the long run.

Give it a try, but don't hurt yourself.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure. I can safely say that I feel way better on 3-4 hours of sleep on this method than I ever did getting that all at once. I seem to be quite alert and productive for most of the waking hours.
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refureeman posted...

LinkPizza posted...

JSebastianBach posted...

I don't get how this really helps if you have a busy schedule. Breaking up the conventional day twice (and IIRC the similarly-touted Ubermensch does this even more) doesn't sound super convenient to me. Plus what are you really gonna get done in the middle of the night, the hours you're gaining, that's all that important? It's not a good time to go outside, businesses are closed, and even if you have a remote job, you'd be lucky if they were actually trusting enough to let you work during odd hours.

It depends on a lot of things. I think hes trying to basically find a way to have more time up. But it depends on what extra stuff he needs to get done. And his job. I know in the Air Force, my normal shift was 11pm-7am. So that took care of the night when things we close. Meaning most thing we open when I was off. He could have a night shift job that would allow him to do that. Or another job where it doesnt mater when they work as long as they get the work done.

Theres also the fact that it seems he wants more social time with people, as well. Some people have jobs at odd hours. I usually talk to my mom a little before and after midnight due to her working night shifts a lot more these days. Plus, he could spend extra time with an SO at anytime theyre both home.

He could also study around that time. For college or other classes or whatever. As for going outside, it just depends on your area...

Personally, I agree that it sounds kind of inconvenient. But it seems to work for him, so...

I understand it, I guess...

To be clear, my primary job is an 8am-5pm schedule. With that said, the gym, learning chess, movies/video games, my master's degree, and my side work can all be done late at night/early in the morning.

I usually go to the gym around midnight. And stay for about a hour running. And then a shower. I like going at night because its not as crowded...
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refureeman posted...

funkyfritter posted...

A friend of mine tried doing this in college. It all fell apart after a few days. I'm convinced that this entire idea is nonsense and that sleeping so little every day is utterly impractical in the long run.

Give it a try, but don't hurt yourself.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure. I can safely say that I feel way better on 3-4 hours of sleep on this method than I ever did getting that all at once. I seem to be quite alert and productive for most of the waking hours.

My friend said more or less the same thing, right up until the day when he didn't show up for classes because he slept something like 18 hours straight despite multiple alarms going off.
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Sounds similar to the Uberman sleep schedule.

Are you aware that it usually takes about two weeks to reset your sleep cycles before even beginning to follow the schedule? Are you also aware that during this period you are brought close to death from lack of sleep and experience "intense hallucinations" among a host of other side-effects?
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refureeman posted...

Essentially, the idea is instead of all your sleep all at once, you split it into smaller naps that are more efficient and therefore you need less total sleep.

How about no. I need as much sleep as I can get(that in itself isn't normally much) due to anxiety issues. Messing around with sleep patterns and taking naps like a baby doesn't seem productive at all.
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DocDelicious posted...

Sounds similar to the Uberman sleep schedule.

Are you aware that it usually takes about two weeks to reset your sleep cycles before even beginning to follow the schedule? Are you also aware that during this period you are brought close to death from lack of sleep and experience "intense hallucinations" among a host of other side-effects?

I haven't been able to do it perfectly yet but it's been three weeks so far.
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