Poll of the Day > Transgenders in sports: a poll

(+) Yeah! (+)

Prolly missing some options

I have a problem with post op transgenders in sports. I think it is unfair that a person who was born physically as one gender competing against somebody who was physically born another gender in physical sports. Maybe once these operations get good enough to literally turn somebody 100% in the other gender, then Ill be okay with it, but as it is, it is unfair, to women specifically. I would 100% be okay with a transgender specific league, whether it is male to female or female to male.

I do not mean this as a bash to anybody, especially transgenders, and I hope we can have a calm discussion about this without any hatred toward any group.

If theyve spent decades of their life developing testosterone fueled muscle fiber I dont see how its fair to have them compete against most women

Not that Im interested in sports
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Mead posted...

If theyve spent decades of their life developing testosterone fueled muscle fiber I dont see how its fair to have them compete against most women

Not that Im interested in sports

Team sports get me less mad, you cant win any team sport with just one player, but one on one sports get me more upset. MMA, tennis, golf

There's that African sports team many years ago who abused this issue by intentionally using a "female" athlete to get first place in whatever women's event.
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aHappySacka posted...

There's that African sports team many years ago who abused this issue by intentionally using a "female" athlete to get first place in whatever women's event.

Was that a transgender or a juwanna mann situation?

Mead posted...

If theyve spent decades of their life developing testosterone fueled muscle fiber I dont see how its fair to have them compete against most women

Not that Im interested in sports

This kind of is the real sticking point. We already ban performance-enhancing drugs in most legitimate sports, and depending on whether you're talking MtF or FtM, some of the drugs they're presumably taking to transition also explicitly affect performance. So that would sort of argue in favor of banning by default.


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Mead posted...

If theyve spent decades of their life developing testosterone fueled muscle fiber I dont see how its fair to have them compete against most women

"Acceptance in all instances!! - except that instance I can't accept"

Do we really want the situation where an athlete gets dressed in the women's locker room, but is compelled to participate on the men's team?

MICHALECOLE posted...

Was that a transgender or a juwanna mann situation?

Was a transgender man that identified as a woman.
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Can't wait till all the women's records are smashed over the next decade.
And it will be really interesting to see what the national soccer team will look like, they may never lose a game again!
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LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

Can't wait till all the women's records are smashed in the next decade.
And it will be really interesting to see what the national soccer team will look like. They may never lose a game again.

unless the team they are up against falls down and when they get bumped into.

foul!
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Mead posted...

If theyve spent decades of their life developing testosterone fueled muscle fiber I dont see how its fair to have them compete against most women

"Acceptance in all instances!! - except that instance I can't accept"

I prefer a Common sense in all instances!! kinda mentality personally
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Mead posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Mead posted...

If theyve spent decades of their life developing testosterone fueled muscle fiber I dont see how its fair to have them compete against most women

"Acceptance in all instances!! - except that instance I can't accept"

I prefer a Common sense in all instances!! kinda mentality personally

"Common sense" stopped being common about twenty years ago.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Mead posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Mead posted...

If theyve spent decades of their life developing testosterone fueled muscle fiber I dont see how its fair to have them compete against most women

"Acceptance in all instances!! - except that instance I can't accept"

I prefer a Common sense in all instances!! kinda mentality personally

"Common sense" stopped being common about twenty years ago.

The internet certainly makes it seem that way sometimes

I think most people are pretty level headed though
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Mead posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Mead posted...

If theyve spent decades of their life developing testosterone fueled muscle fiber I dont see how its fair to have them compete against most women

"Acceptance in all instances!! - except that instance I can't accept"

I prefer a Common sense in all instances!! kinda mentality personally

"Common sense" stopped being common about twenty years ago.

Terrible argument

Give them their own league. The men are crushing the women to the point where those who got them in the league are now trying to find ways to get them out of the league (even though they got what they wanted and there is "equality")
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I mean men and woman are genetically different so they should only be allowed to compete as the gender they are born as. Not that I care.
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MICHALECOLE posted...

I have a problem with post op transgenders in sports. I think it is unfair that a person who was born physically as one gender competing against somebody who was physically born another gender in physical sports. Maybe once these operations get good enough to literally turn somebody 100% in the other gender, then Ill be okay with it, but as it is, it is unfair, to women specifically. I would 100% be okay with a transgender specific league, whether it is male to female or female to male.

Seems to me like many things, the issue is that people still use the terms sex and gender interchangeably.
One is born with a certain set of chromosomes, that determines one's sex and is currently unchangeable.
Gender is a subset of our personality that forms over the course of our lives and is always changing.

It is also for those reasons that gender rarely matters for things and we can only allow or disallow things based on "sex", as that is the only fully determinable one of the two.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

"Acceptance in all instances!! - except that instance I can't accept"

Do we really want the situation where an athlete gets dressed in the women's locker room, but is compelled to participate on the men's team?

What is your position on the topic?
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I think that, at a minimum, if you want to play women's sports, it should not be sufficient to self-identify as a woman, or even to be legally registered as a woman in your country. I assume that there are separate men's and women's divisions in most sports because, in general, biological males have so many physical advantages over biological females that the latter don't have a "decent" chance against the former. So if you're biologically male and haven't taken any hormones and/or had your testicles removed, you should have to compete in the men's division, regardless of what you and your government say you are.

Maybe hormones and surgery can make a trans woman enough like a cis woman that it makes sense for them to compete against each other. And maybe most sports could have fairer divisions if they were based on height, weight, or something else, without regard to biological sex. I could see both of those questions getting resolved either way.

i said born as.

but what if someoen is born as a woman and then takes a bunch of shit to become a man. that wouldn't be fair if they competed with cis women.

other solution is to just get rid of gendered sports.

may the best man/woman/whatever win

OmegaM posted...

I think that, at a minimum, if you want to play women's sports, it should not be sufficient to self-identify as a woman, or even to be legally registered as a woman in your country. I assume that there are separate men's and women's divisions in most sports because, in general, biological males have so many physical advantages over biological females that the latter don't have a "decent" chance against the former. So if you're biologically male and haven't taken any hormones and/or had your testicles removed, you should have to compete in the men's division, regardless of what you and your government say you are.

Maybe hormones and surgery can make a trans woman enough like a cis woman that it makes sense for them to compete against each other. And maybe most sports could have fairer divisions if they were based on height, weight, or something else, without regard to biological sex. I could see both of those questions getting resolved either way.

We can change the categories to world- and exhibition- class events.
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Fam_Fam posted...

other solution is to just get rid of gendered sports.

may the best man/woman/whatever win

Nearly every sport would wind up being male-exclusive anyway.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

other solution is to just get rid of gendered sports.

may the best man/woman/whatever win

Nearly every sport would wind up being male-exclusive anyway.

So? You can just rank performance and give a women's gold to the fastest woman without them winning what is effectively a handicap race.
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Missing Option for me: Gendered sports should be ended and everyone should play on the same team
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Lokarin posted...

Missing Option for me: Gendered sports should be ended and everyone should play on the same team

But how would that work? You must have a certain ratio of females to males on a team?

In middle school and some high school sports, you might be fine and be ok. In pro sports, ladies can't compete though. Even to the point of being unsafe and dangerous, such as NHL and NFL
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CTLM posted...

In pro sports, ladies can't compete though.

It really depends on the sport; women are excellent at gymnastics and super endurance events.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

CTLM posted...

In pro sports, ladies can't compete though.

It really depends on the sport; women are excellent at gymnastics and super endurance events.

Super endurance? Like marathons?

I went super obvious with the Boston Marathon. Well beyond 30th place before you get to the ladies 1st place. And in runners times, that's a lifetime

Gymnastics? I'm not even going to get in a discussion of whether that's a sport. So ladies can have gymnastics then
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

CTLM posted...

In pro sports, ladies can't compete though.

It really depends on the sport; women are excellent at gymnastics and super endurance events.

...
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

CTLM posted...

In pro sports, ladies can't compete though.

It really depends on the sport; women are excellent at gymnastics and super endurance events.

...

Literally an olympic sport.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

other solution is to just get rid of gendered sports.

may the best man/woman/whatever win

Nearly every sport would wind up being male-exclusive anyway.

in any other job, you'd take the most qualified candidates.

same thing here.

you could go the affirmative action approach if you'd like.

Mead posted...

If theyve spent decades of their life developing testosterone fueled muscle fiber I dont see how its fair to have them compete against most women

Not that Im interested in sports

P much this.
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CTLM posted...

But how would that work? You must have a certain ratio of females to males on a team?

Nah, you just compete and let the best players get spots on the team, pure meritocracy
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I believe their are only two genders and they should have to stick to playing with their own. I also think it's hypocritical to tell a transgender something along the lines of "yes, you are a woman, but you can only play with the men."

PKMNsony posted...

I believe their are only two genders and they should have to stick to playing with their own. I also think it's hypocritical to tell a transgender something along the lines of "yes, you are a woman, but you can only play with the men."

But that's what they want. They want to play with their opposite gender. The guys who feel they are really females want to compete only with females and vice versa. Not hypocritical at all.
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I actually did a lot of research on this and it goes further beyond just hormones.

Naturally born males have things that can not be altered through hormones which include:
-their skeletal build
-higher lung capacity
-higher red blood cell count

Play the sport your body was born into and use the bathroom you're equipped for.
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dragon504 posted...

Play the sport your body was born into and use the bathroom you're equipped for.

So use the womens bathroom if you were born with a penis, but now are equipped with a vagina?
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LinkPizza posted...

dragon504 posted...

Play the sport your body was born into and use the bathroom you're equipped for.

So use the womens bathroom if you were born with a penis, but now are equipped with a vagina?

If they've gone through the trouble of getting their stuff cut and stuffed inside of them, then sure, I'd let 'em use the ladies room.
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CTLM posted...

PKMNsony posted...

I believe their are only two genders and they should have to stick to playing with their own. I also think it's hypocritical to tell a transgender something along the lines of "yes, you are a woman, but you can only play with the men."

But that's what they want. They want to play with their opposite gender. The guys who feel they are really females want to compete only with females and vice versa. Not hypocritical at all.

Im talking about the people who say transgender women/men are female/male, not the people who self-identify as trans people.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

CTLM posted...

In pro sports, ladies can't compete though.

It really depends on the sport; women are excellent at gymnastics and super endurance events.

...

Literally an olympic sport.

the olympic committee also considers chess a sport
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That they should only be allowed to play if they were good enough to make the team, just like everyone else.
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CTLM posted...

Lokarin posted...

Missing Option for me: Gendered sports should be ended and everyone should play on the same team

But how would that work? You must have a certain ratio of females to males on a team?

In middle school and some high school sports, you might be fine and be ok. In pro sports, ladies can't compete though. Even to the point of being unsafe and dangerous, such as NHL and NFL

Plenty of soccer teams are mixed.
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Just make all genitals a felony
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Banning gender specific physical sports would essentially mean eliminating almost all jobs for professional female athletes if only performance is considered for the positions.
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Transgenders are an odd case. In professional sports you do not want enhancement drugs or hormones, but mtf and ftm transgenders need their hormones to be heavily regulated just to feel right in a given day. Regulating those hormones for the transgender athletes? Well... it's harder for some than others; that's for sure.

In fact, this is a major plot point to one of my favorite tg stories on the web. Boy becomes totally female, is an athletic runner, her competition for girls' running in another school opens a lawsuit over it before they can face off against one another, and I'll say no more beyond that.
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Clearly the solution here is eugenics.

Breed sexual dimorphism out of humans.
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Really, I'd say the solution is to stop segregating leagues along gender lines and start segregating them on more nuanced biological criteria that can better predict athletic performance, sort of like weight classes in wrestling or boxing. That way, you get trans people competing with people with similar hormone makeups, plus you don't have to worry about mutants like Phelps dominating athletes who don't have overwhelming biological advantages.

CTLM posted...

Even to the point of being unsafe and dangerous, such as NHL and NFL

Oh my god I want to see a transman/woman play nhl or nfl. imagine getting checked against the boards and up ended in a big tackle, they'd fucking die

Not that I want them to die.

It would just be a) hilarious and b) highlight just exactly how stupid the trans in sports shit is.

Lil_Bit83 posted...

CTLM posted...

Lokarin posted...

Missing Option for me: Gendered sports should be ended and everyone should play on the same team

But how would that work? You must have a certain ratio of females to males on a team?

In middle school and some high school sports, you might be fine and be ok. In pro sports, ladies can't compete though. Even to the point of being unsafe and dangerous, such as NHL and NFL

Plenty of soccer teams are mixed.

Not sure where there's plenty unless you mean recreational leagues. I played on a mixed indoor team in a rec league. Every team had to have at least 2 females per the rules. The best teams only had 2 and they barely played for a reason. Ladies couldn't compete

Same thing when I was in high school; we scrimmaged the girls team. They won their conference (easily), and came in 3rd for the state. We came in 3rd to last for our conference out of 8 teams.

Coach sat a few starters. He started taking more out once the game was 5-0. He called it off at 8-0 and they started playing dirty, causing one of our guys to get hurt. Not seriously thankfully
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