Board 8 > ^King of the Mountain^ - Save My Shapeshifter - Nominations

(+) Yeah! (+)

sure, why not

Morph (Treasure Planet)
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Morph
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oh, just thought of another:

Bonnie (Doctor Who, "The Zygon Invasion")

i even remembered frobisher and kamelion at the time, but stopped just short on that train of thought.
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Questionable:

Cappy: Seems to be a ghost that possesses things. That's not a form of shapeshifting in my opinion.

Kirby: Ability copy isn't necessarily shapeshifting, though I have heard arguments well enough to prove that he should count in this category. I'll continue to hear more from both sides.

That's about all I'm really seeing to question at first glance. If anyone would like to bring up something, now's the time. The contest will begin on Tuesday, so we'll have Sunday and Monday to debate over the list before I finalize it.
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Mystique (x-men)
Sirius black
Peter pettigrew
James potter
Odo (Star Trek: voyager)

Oh sad face

Cappy changes from a cute ghost into Mario's hat, and changes into different hats depending on Mario's costume. How is that not shapeshifting? It was never about his possession abilities.
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Oh goody! A new King of the Mountain and nominations!! Nice!!

So are nominations still open? Or have they already been selected and set in stone? I got quite a few choices/picks in mind.
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MC_XD posted...

Cappy changes from a cute ghost into Mario's hat, and changes into different hats depending on Mario's costume. How is that not shapeshifting? It was never about his possession abilities.

We can see in his introduction cutscene that he possesses Marios hat instead of turning into it. It can be inferred the same strategy is used for other hats you get.

If he simply transformed himself into Marios cap, then where did the original go in that cutscene? Did he destroy it?
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OmegaXXII posted...

So are nominations still open? Or have they already been selected and set in stone? I got quite a few choices/picks in mind.

Sadly already closed, these nomination phases go by so fast. You can see the "finalized" list in post #194
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I'm on team Kirby, plenty of his abilities like stone, ghost, missile etc have him transform into things and in epic yarn that's like all he does.
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While I don't think of Kirby first and foremost as a shapeshifter (and you know how much I love the little guy), I agree that there are too many examples of him doing so to exclude him.
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v_charon posted...

Kirby: Ability copy isn't necessarily shapeshifting, though I have heard arguments well enough to prove that he should count in this category. I'll continue to hear more from both sides.

I think the important thing to note is that it's not just ability copy. Like this isn't Rogue borrowing an ability and being able to create fire or heal or whatever. Kirby's body is basically built to twist and warp however it needs to. Sometimes that means a silly outfit (which the character he swallows may or may not be wearing, so I can't really explain that) and sometimes it means completely changing. And like mentioned before, some of his shapeshifting doesn't even involve swallowing characters.

Here's some gifs for good measure (fair warning, some of the Kirby 64 stuff is nightmare fuel)







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Honestly considering the stretchy clause allowed Kirby is a bit more compelling.

Still think he's primarily taking abilities but his body is specifically made to contort to implement his copying.
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Kirby takes something off his opponent and contorts his body to match them. And Arya and Jaqen are allowed, so Kirby should be too.
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One big thing for me in regards to Kirby and mentioning elasticity, is to go off pretty much the easiest examples of his elasticity. Ball Kirby. However, Kirby can't normally do ball Kirby, he needs to absorb it from something else. All shapeshifters on this list have it as an innate ability. They don't need outside help, while Kirby needs to absorb the ability from something else.
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I would argue Kirbys body chemistry that allows for these shape shifting abilities to happen is his innate ability.
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I'm neutral on Kirby, but can we agree that Cappy possesses things (including hats) instead of shapeshifting?
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WickIebee posted...

One big thing for me in regards to Kirby and mentioning elasticity, is to go off pretty much the easiest examples of his elasticity. Ball Kirby. However, Kirby can't normally do ball Kirby, he needs to absorb it from something else. All shapeshifters on this list have it as an innate ability. They don't need outside help, while Kirby needs to absorb the ability from something else.

1. except in those examples I already pointed out of him shapeshiting in games without absorbing abilities
2. it's not like he's absorbing the ability to shapeshift; that's an inherent part of him. The ball example is actually a good one, he literally just absorbs a round enemy and then shapeshifts to match that enemy's form. There's not much difference between that and say Mystique or Clayface looking at someone and then shapeshifting into them, the only change is that he also gets their power. But the shapeshifting isn't a power he gets from the enemy.

Think like Mystique combined with Rogue rather than one or the other
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Shang Tsung (Mortal Kombat) if he didn't make the cut already
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hombad46 posted...

I'm neutral on Kirby, but can we agree that Cappy possesses things (including hats) instead of shapeshifting?

yeah I'll second that

It definitely seems more like Cappy's a ghost who specifically possesses hats
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hombad46 posted...

Great_Paul posted...

He switches between being Mario's cap and a white top hat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePjDFt2xDfk" data-time="&start=80 He possesses/fuses with the cap, he doesn't turn into it.

Bringing this back so people don't need to go searching this topic for my argument if they want it
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Yeah Cappy should definitely be out.
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actually looking at that video kinda pushes me the other way

the old hat was destroyed, and was only a scrap left. He couldn't be possessing it
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Johnbobb posted...

actually looking at that video kinda pushes me the other way

the old hat was destroyed, and was only a scrap left. He couldn't be possessing it

But if he turned into it, where did the original go? No need to show him pulling the hat out either

Edit: I'm thinking at most he's like a Rotom. The thing he's possessing changes, but not him himself
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hombad46 posted...

But if he turned into it, where did the original go? No need to show him pulling the hat out either

well that's the thing, the original was basically nothing but a scrap

maybe it was a fusion type thing, but it can't be a possession unless Cappy somehow restored the hat. it's unclear
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for what it's worth though I don't feel super strong about Cappy one way or the other and would get it either way

also kinda wish there were 2 others to randomly DQ to get Magic School Bus in :'(

ALSO regretting not nominating the Boggart from Harry Potter
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I'm sad I forgot to nominate Meatwad

Even though he'd probably only get two nominations anyway
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Johnbobb posted...

also kinda wish there were 2 others to randomly DQ to get Magic School Bus in

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Johnbobb posted...

also kinda wish there were 2 others to randomly DQ to get Magic School Bus in :'(

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GenesisSaga posted...

I'm sad I forgot to nominate Meatwad

Even though he'd probably only get two nominations anyway

It takes a certain type of Individual to FULLY appreciate ATHF...
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I'd nominate Meatwad.

I like Meatwad, Frylock and Carl. Fuck Shake.
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GenesisSaga posted...

I'm sad I forgot to nominate Meatwad

Even though he'd probably only get two nominations anyway

I would've nommed him.
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Johnbobb posted...

1. except in those examples I already pointed out of him shapes***ing in games without absorbing abilities

Except there's no such proof he didn't have to absorb abilities. Smash isn't cannon, and even if we wanted to count it as such, technically the one who gave him those powers is Master Hand, as present in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror where he gets his Smash moveset through absorbing Master Hand's power.

2. it's not like he's absorbing the ability to shapeshift; that's an inherent part of him. The ball example is actually a good one, he literally just absorbs a round enemy and then shapeshifts to match that enemy's form. There's not much difference between that and say Mystique or Clayface looking at someone and then shapeshifting into them, the only change is that he also gets their power. But the shapeshifting isn't a power he gets from the enemy.

Except it's not even close. He has to eat that character. The best example of Kirby, is someone who copied what he does. Quina Quen. Quina doesn't inherently have the power to use monster abilities, but he can eat one to get that power. He doesn't actually have needles on possession of himself, but he gets the power to use it through absorbing that ability. Mystique, Clayface, Ditto, etc, yes, they need a character to transform into, but its through their own power that they turn into that person, not through that person's power that they use that person's power in their own way.
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Quina doesnt gain traits of the enemy, just the spell. Kirbys body transforms based on what he eats. That ability to transform IS the natural shapeshifting ability.
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Honestly the only compelling argument for Kirby working to me, is that his interpretation of abilities is often achieved through shapeshifting.

Like he's not copying the ability exactly but will do a Kirby'd spin of what the enemy does, which can cause weird things like morphing his body into a bow to fire a flaming arrow instead of just like, getting a bow.

Also keep in mind Kirby shows his elasticity in his natural flight, where he puffs up real big and fills with air-- no ability absorption required for that.
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How does Kirby eating the souls of his enemies differ from Shang Tsung eating the souls of his?
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Hell, here, have another thing. Kirby had the ability to suck up and swallow enemies since the beginning, but he doesn't shapeshift on every enemy's absorbtion, hell, he never did it in his original game where this power stemmed from. Because originally there wasn't a power to absorb, but, it shows he wasn't able to shapeshift without it being specific powers added from specific enemies.
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WickIebee posted...

Except there's no such proof he didn't have to absorb abilities. Smash isn't cannon, and even if we wanted to count it as such, technically the one who gave him those powers is Master Hand, as present in Kirby and the Amazing Mirror where he gets his Smash moveset through absorbing Master Hand's power.

WickIebee posted...

Except it's not even close. He has to eat that character. The best example of Kirby, is someone who copied what he does. Quina Quen. Quina doesn't inherently have the power to use monster abilities, but he can eat one to get that power. He doesn't actually have needles on possession of himself, but he gets the power to use it through absorbing that ability. Mystique, Clayface, Ditto, etc, yes, they need a character to transform into, but its through their own power that they turn into that person, not through that person's power that they use that person's power in their own way.

again, it's not one or the other

he gets the enemies power (fire, ice, water, etc.) by absorbing their power
he gets a different shape via his own ability.

Not sure it helps but for what it's worth, other sources listing him as a shapeshifter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Shapeshifter_characters_in_video_games
https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Shapeshifting
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VoluntaryShapeshifting
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hell, in the anime he doesn't even swallow enemies

he just swallows inanimate objects and then gets a transformation based on the object. There's literally no power to copy there, it's just his body naturally adjusting

gaining additional powers while shapeshifting doesn't make it not shapeshifting
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WickIebee posted...

Hell, here, have another thing. Kirby had the ability to suck up and swallow enemies since the beginning, but he doesn't shapeshift on every enemy's absorbtion, hell, he never did it in his original game where this power stemmed from. Because originally there wasn't a power to absorb, but, it shows he wasn't able to shapeshift without it being specific powers added from specific enemies.

So what youre saying is because the first game was a bit different, all the other games where this ability is made his trademark dont count? Characters cant evolve over time?

But ok, in that same game he can still split his body into multiple other Kirbys to celebrate the end of the level. He can still puff his body into a balloon and fly. And he keeps his body in a puffed state to launch mint blasts at a blimp boss in the sky.
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Johnbobb posted...

Not sure it helps but for what it's worth, other sources listing him as a shapeshifter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Shapeshifter_characters_in_video_games
https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Shapeshifting
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VoluntaryShapeshifting

Wikis are biased towards what only the creator thinks is right, and when I read actual definitions of it, I don't see everything saying it conveniently only works at most half the time, I see fully changing their appearance, which Kirby doesn't do when he absorbs things like normal elements.

Actually, let's take everything that can be applied to Kirby's "shapeshifting" that you're trying to apply into it, and check your second Wiki.

Malleable Anatomy. Oh look, Kirby isn't listed.
Power-Shifting (aka changing into a power, which also would be what Kirby would be considered doing): Still no Kirby.

No, where he's listed is Digestive Shapeshifting, which, if you think about it...
"The user can shape-shift into any someone by eating part of them, the user does not gain their abilities unless accompanied by Digestive Assimilation" He does this very minimally. He only does this with enemies like UFO.

His power is Digestive Assimilation, not Digestive Shapeshifting. The latter is more convenience with specific power ups, it's not actually his power.

The main Kirby that can transform is Yarn Kirby, who I'd argue should have been nominated as that in order to be counted.
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Yarn Kirby is still just Kirby, though. It's not like Paper Mario where he's another character who lives in a storybook or whatever.
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Yarn Kirby isnt a separate entity. Its Kirby.
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Either way, I think Charon's the better judge in the circumstance of who actually has the better argument, rather than fans of Kirby in general.

Elasticity, or convenient Digestive Assimilation. I think the elasticity and Yarn Kirby arguments are the fair sides of him remaining in, but I think Charon, as the host, should decide where Kirby's powers lie from that argument.
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Just so we're properly keeping score I'm a Kirby fan who was initially arguing the other way who was convinced by arguments.

I also was a primary proponent for keeping Pokemon in and I hate Pokemon.
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WickIebee posted...

His power is Digestive Assimilation, not Digestive Shapeshifting

why are you so insistent that it's one or the other? It can be both!

Oh, he doesn't shapeshift, except all the times that he does? And sometimes instead of warping his body he just forms new outfits out of his body, which isn't shapeshifting except when it's done by Mystique and Clayface, who are shapeshifters? And the games where he just naturally shapeshifts without powers don't count? And the instances of him naturally warping his body to fly and absorb and etc ALSO doesn't count? And the instances of him absorbing literal inanimate objects ALSO don't count?

like you're reeeeeeally stretching to try to make it not work. It's like the equivalent of arguing that nobody is actually a shapeshifter, they're just absorbing another person's power to look like themself
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WickIebee posted...

Either way, I think Charon's the better judge in the circumstance of who actually has the better argument, rather than fans of Kirby in general

The fans of Kirby are needed to make sure silly things like Kirby just wears hats or Kirby isnt a shapeshifter cuz the wiki doesnt list him arent taken seriously as arguments.
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Johnbobb posted...

he just forms new outfits out of his body

Except he doesn't, it's aesthetics. I can put on a hat that I take off of someone else too, it doesn't make me a shapeshifter. Of course, I also can't throw that hat and create a duplicate of the person I stole it from who fights for my side like Kirby can in Super Star. That's the best evidence of his hat, it comes off the enemy as he takes the power, not that he shapeshifts it out of the power.

EDIT: Hell, it also presents that it's still not his power, it's one he took off an enemy.
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WickIebee posted...

it comes off the enemy as he takes the power, not that he shapeshifts it out of the power.

except when he gets power from inanimate objects
and when he gets hats that the enemy wasn't wearing
and when his body literally changes colors and shapes
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