Poll of the Day > Do you know the saddest thing about lootboxes?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The saddest thing, IMO, is that it didn't have to be this way. We could have seen a situation where a bunch of solid free games came out with players spending what they desired on the games they actually liked and still enjoying freemium play on games they liked less/didn't have the time for. I'm not saying it would have been perfect or even great but... compared to companies using them to prey upon customers and how horribly mismanaged they've been and the fallout... it could have been so much better. And now it won't. Because of a bunch of greedy jerks who didn't understand the community in the slightest.

**** you EA.
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Ok lol
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I want them gone period because I'd much rather unlock stuff by doing something specific instead of having dumb luck in order to have a chance of unlocking something you want.
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Team Fortress 2 has always had the best approach imo
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The worst thing about loot boxes is that they're loot boxes.

I tend to hate RNG bullshittery even in games where I'm not paying for anything, whether it be drop rates or triggering mechanics for achievements/trophies or anything else. The thrill of success only comes from the far greater frustration of failure, and at this point in my life, I no longer have the time, patience, or ability to give a shit about that sort of feedback loop (same reason I won't play games like Dark Souls).

Give me the option to buy a skin or unique weapon/armor piece and I may do it (and have in the past), even if I grumble about the old days when stuff like that would come free and standard in every game. Tell me I can pay for the chance to randomly gamble to potentially acquire something I kind of want, and I will tell you to go fuck yourself.


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I'll always prefer a game to have all it's content as part of the price rather than them cut a bunch of stuff out to nickle and dime me later.

Mead posted...

Team Fortress 2 has always had the best approach imo

The fuck? TF2 was just as bad as everything else. Unless it's changed recently.

Anyway the worst part is the fact that it killed the concept of free unlockables and cheat codes.
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Blighboy posted...

Mead posted...

Team Fortress 2 has always had the best approach imo

The fuck? TF2 was just as bad as everything else. Unless it's changed recently.

Anyway the worst part is the fact that it killed the concept of free unlockables and cheat codes.

How so? Last time I played it the game was totally free with just cosmetic hats you could buy if you wanted
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Oh sure. I agree that they're terrible. But there are games like Fire Emblem Heroes, Hearthstone, and a few others that, while I wouldn't say they do it right, they do it much less wrong than what EA is doing. It's sad because I can actually see a viable field growing of decent freemium titles supported by lootboxes; but that field REQUIRED responsible use to even exist, let alone be consider viable. And now it's all gone and ruined. While I'm certain freemium games won't die they will get a major setback and one possible tool to make them viable has been ruined by several companies that just pillaged.
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I would say that it's inevitable.

Unbridled9 posted...

Oh sure. I agree that they're terrible. But there are games like Fire Emblem Heroes, Hearthstone, and a few others that, while I wouldn't say they do it right, they do it much less wrong than what EA is doing. It's sad because I can actually see a viable field growing of decent freemium titles supported by lootboxes; but that field REQUIRED responsible use to even exist, let alone be consider viable. And now it's all gone and ruined. While I'm certain freemium games won't die they will get a major setback and one possible tool to make them viable has been ruined by several companies that just pillaged.

Given that Hearthstone is a CCG, its lootboxes make sense.
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The only times I dislike loot boxes are when they contain things that give you bonuses to things like in game stats, you know, more attack or something like that. And when they are present in a game that you had to pay for. I'm all for throwing money at a game that you play a ton but I it seems like the loot boxes cost too much in those cases. If you already had to pay for a game, a loot box should cost no more than $1.
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Zeus posted...

Given that Hearthstone is a CCG, its lootboxes make sense.

Even then, not entirely. The collectible mechanic makes sense with an actual real-world CCG because you're talking about physical product. But in a video game where every card is literally just 1s and 0s and no card theoretically has any more or less inherent value than any other card, there's no reason why you have to import that collectible aspect directly over.

If I'm playing an online Magic: the Gathering game and I want to play with a deck of 59 Black Lotuses and 1 Fireball, then fuck you, I should be able to play that way. If I want issues of rarity, exclusivity, age and availability, and other limiting factors of which cards I can and cannot own, I'll just go play the actual card game (where if nothing else my cards actually have tradeable/sellable cash value). A video game should absolutely allow you the opportunity to play with cards you'd literally never be able to own in the real world, and not just slavishly model the real world mechanics.

I'd be willing to concede the point if a game has, say, "competitive" and "freeform" modes (where one mode has limited card availability to enforce some degree of player parity while the other allows you to put any card ever printed into your deck for "free" so you can play with fun permutations and not be limited by real world restrictions), but too many games just copy everything directly over from the real world and wind up limiting themselves in unnecessary ways. And once you add in "Well, you CAN buy this rare card in-game for real world money", then it just becomes even more predatory and scummy.


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This is just the market working like it's supposed to - if people want it more, price goes up. If people want it less, price goes down. Somehow, for some reason, people are buying lootboxes at their current price point...

Which means they WANT to buy lootboxes at their current price point.
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I don't mind lootboxes. That being said, I don't pay for them. Real money, at least. I either use in-game currency or get the free ones. Like in Overwatch where you got them for leveling or during special events and such.
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LinkPizza posted...

Like in Overwatch where you got them for leveling or during special events and such.

The thing about it, usually getting loot boxes in these ways takes far too long. Especially in something like OW where you have to buy the game still.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Like in Overwatch where you got them for leveling or during special events and such.

The thing about it, usually getting loot boxes in these ways takes far too long. Especially in something like OW where you have to buy the game still.

Only after a while, though. Like early on in the game, all you had to do was win a few matches and you
d get one. Sure, it wasn't one every game, but there was no need for that. Also, around event time, they gave you like 3-5 boxes right off the bat. It does take longer if you're losing every match. But you can still get them because you're still getting experience points...

The only complaint I had was that the duplicates could have been worth more...

I don't really have anything against having to buy the game. Especially since after buying it, you could get free lootboxes...
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LinkPizza posted...

The only complaint I had was that the duplicates could have been worth more...

Yeah, duplicates almost shouldn't even be a thing...

LinkPizza posted...

Especially since after buying it, you could get free lootboxes...

Free? Where?
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

The only complaint I had was that the duplicates could have been worth more...

Yeah, duplicates almost shouldn't even be a thing...

Normally, I would agree. Though, I like getting the extra currency to buy what I want if I ever wanted something specific...

AllstarSniper32 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Especially since after buying it, you could get free lootboxes...

Free? Where?

Well, free as in you don't have to pay extra money after buying the game...
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Lokarin posted...

This is just the market working like it's supposed to - if people want it more, price goes up. If people want it less, price goes down. Somehow, for some reason, people are buying lootboxes at their current price point...

Which means they WANT to buy lootboxes at their current price point.

The flaw with that logic is that you can replace "lootboxes" with "heroin" and your statement would still be entirely correct.

Just because some people are willing to spend money on a product doesn't mean that product is something that should be sold in the first place. Or that it's in the best-interest of those people to buy it, even if they believe they want to (and there are already countless cases where we regulate content and products for people's own good - we don't even remotely live in a pure free market system).

And that doesn't even get into the fact that the entire lootbox and microtransaction model tends to rest on the fact that 1% of the market is doing 99% of the spending - "whales" are effectively being exploited to generate revenue at the expense of everyone else. Because games are being deliberately skewed, broken, or developed in ways that maximizes monetization at the expense of actual gameplay and user experience (ie, it doesn't have to be fun as long as it's addictive), meaning that even the people who refuse to engage with the monetization model are still being affected by it.


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LinkPizza posted...

Well, free as in you don't have to pay extra money after buying the game...

But that's the problem people have with it. Because you don't "have" to pay, but they have it set up so it takes way too long to earn them that it's encouraging you to just buy them.
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HL2
popularized DRMs (Steam)
TF2 & CS:GO
popularized lootboxes
Portal
le cake is a lie xD
Dota Underlords
cash grab ripoff

valve kind of sucks
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The best part of microtransactions is for things like csgo where the guns on the marketplace are like 50 cents. And the game gives you stuff to sell all the time (less now then it used too though)

Thanks people who spend 1000's
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The saddest part of lootboxes is that the company who uses them still try to justify them as not being predatory.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Well, free as in you don't have to pay extra money after buying the game...

But that's the problem people have with it. Because you don't "have" to pay, but they have it set up so it takes way too long to earn them that it's encouraging you to just buy them.

That's on them, though. It's doesn't really take that long. A few battle won and you got yourself a shiny new lootbox for free. And in a game like that, it seems foolish to buy them, anyway. It's all cosmetic stuff that can wait. They can encourage all they want. The point is that people should understand that it's not mandatory or needed. Just win them like before lootboxes were available to buy. In games, you use to just certain items or prizes for winning. Now those prizes come in the form of lootboxes that are also available to buy. It sucks for people who have no self control. But that's something they have to get help for if it's a problem they don't want to have. If it's not lootboxes, it could potentially be something else...
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LinkPizza posted...

That's on them, though. It's doesn't really take that long. A few battle won and you got yourself a shiny new lootbox for free. And in a game like that, it seems foolish to buy them, anyway. It's all cosmetic stuff that can wait. They can encourage all they want. The point is that people should understand that it's not mandatory or needed. Just win them like before lootboxes were available to buy. In games, you use to just certain items or prizes for winning. Now those prizes come in the form of lootboxes that are also available to buy. It sucks for people who have no self control. But that's something they have to get help for if it's a problem they don't want to have. If it's not lootboxes, it could potentially be something else...

I don't think people should have to get help for lootboxes...I used the word encourage to put it lightly, but it's known that lootboxes have been used manipulatively.

OW has one of the better lootbox systems that I have seen, and I don't even dislike it, but even it is still bad.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

That's on them, though. It's doesn't really take that long. A few battle won and you got yourself a shiny new lootbox for free. And in a game like that, it seems foolish to buy them, anyway. It's all cosmetic stuff that can wait. They can encourage all they want. The point is that people should understand that it's not mandatory or needed. Just win them like before lootboxes were available to buy. In games, you use to just certain items or prizes for winning. Now those prizes come in the form of lootboxes that are also available to buy. It sucks for people who have no self control. But that's something they have to get help for if it's a problem they don't want to have. If it's not lootboxes, it could potentially be something else...

I don't think people should have to get help for lootboxes...I used the word encourage to put it lightly, but it's known that lootboxes have been used manipulatively.

OW has one of the better lootbox systems that I have seen, and I don't even dislike it, but even it is still bad.

I do like the way OW handles them. Everything is cosmetic and doesn't affect the game, they give them out pretty generously sometimes, and dupes get you in-game currency (along with currency just in the box sometimes) to let you pick some stuff you want.

I do agree that people should get help for stuff like that, though. If someone wants to spend a couple bucks here and there to try to get something, it's whatever. It's when they become a whale, get addicted, or start spending outrageous amounts that it becomes a problem...
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I like how CSGO handles lootboxes.
#1 You can sell whatever it is you get for steambucks (or real money if you know how)
#2 You can sell the box itself, they are literally giving you money in this regard.
#3 It's all cosmetic and not required
#4 You can straight up buy any of the items and go around the box openings. Sure that's DLC but it's also non-essential cosmetics.
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LinkPizza posted...

I do like the way OW handles them. Everything is cosmetic and doesn't affect the game, they give them out pretty generously sometimes, and dupes get you in-game currency (along with currency just in the box sometimes) to let you pick some stuff you want.

I do agree that people should get help for stuff like that, though. If someone wants to spend a couple bucks here and there to try to get something, it's whatever. It's when they become a whale, get addicted, or start spending outrageous amounts that it becomes a problem...

My biggest issue with OW lootboxes was when a new event happened, you could spend $50 on the biggest lootbox bundle and STILL NOT get all the items from the event! I feel if you spend even $20 on an event you should automatically get all of the event items. I think I saw a video where someone spent $100, opened all the loot boxes and STILL didn't get all the event items.
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