Current Events > Why do people hate common core? It works

(+) Yeah! (+)

The amount of kids in my classes these days that say math is their favorite subject is like 50-60%. It used to be everyone's least favorite.

It's teaching kids how to understand numbers better so they learn to enjoy math.

I feel like 90% of the hate comes from those pictures on facebook from teachers that make poorly written questions and the fact that parents don't understand anything outside the standard method of multiplication/division so they just say it's awful.
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Parents that don't understand it
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Are you a math Teacheer TC?
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Patty_Fleur posted...

Are you a math Teacheer TC?

Elementary

So technically yes since I teach everything.
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Because people are morons who are too set in the old way of doing things to bother learning anything new or the purpose or effectiveness of the new method.
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we're old and out of touch
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boxington posted...

we're old and out of touch

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CasualGuy posted...

The amount of kids in my classes these days that say math is their favorite subject is like 50-60%. It used to be everyone's least favorite.

Where did you get this from?
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IronChef_Kirby posted...

CasualGuy posted...

The amount of kids in my classes these days that say math is their favorite subject is like 50-60%. It used to be everyone's least favorite.

Where did you get this from?

I ask them?

RoadsterUFO posted...

Im not for or against it, its simply illogical to try to ram down a one size fits all method of teaching students if they may understand it better being taught another way.

I feel like the people that parrot this don't know what common core is.

For example when I teach multiplication I teach it 4 different ways including the standard way every parent is familiar with.

How is it a one size fits all?
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I've seen a defense of common core. It was "if kids move out of state, they won't have to catch up or have to deal with stuff that they already have learned as a result of moving." That makes sense in and of itself, but actual defense of the way they teach math in common core was not even addressed at all. Why can't they just teach math normally and have that be a standard everywhere so that they achieve the goal of the system without doing a bunch of weird shit that doesn't make sense?
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People that don't understand it nor willing to learn it.

People shit on our education system because we're behind other countries and then when we try to change it people freak out because parents dont understand their kids homework
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Machete posted...

I've seen a defense of common core. It was "if kids move out of state, they won't have to catch up or have to deal with stuff that they already have learned as a result of moving." That makes sense in and of itself, but actual defense of the way they teach math in common core was not even addressed at all. Why can't they just teach math normally and have that be a standard everywhere so that they achieve the goal of the system without doing a bunch of weird shit that doesn't make sense?

Just because it's new to you doesn't mean it's weird or doesn't make sense.

Kids have wayyyyyyy better number sense through common core.
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It's parents who don't understand it. They see the pictures/videos of simple math problems done in a "complicated" way and freak out because they don't understand. This video was very popular a few months ago as proof that common core is bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlfa5v3ullg" data-time="

Of course explaining every step to a class is slower than the "old" way. Basically the argument is "what's wrong with the old way" because they think common core completely replaces what we all know already.
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CasualGuy posted...

Machete posted...

I've seen a defense of common core. It was "if kids move out of state, they won't have to catch up or have to deal with stuff that they already have learned as a result of moving." That makes sense in and of itself, but actual defense of the way they teach math in common core was not even addressed at all. Why can't they just teach math normally and have that be a standard everywhere so that they achieve the goal of the system without doing a bunch of weird shit that doesn't make sense?

Just because it's new to you doesn't mean it's weird or doesn't make sense.

Kids have wayyyyyyy better number sense through common core.

Every thing about it I've seen has me reacting like a Westworld robot. "That doesn't look like anything to me." Intentionally bizarre abstract art is easier to interpret.

Granted, I never took to the "standard" system either with like all that carrying and borrowing and long division shit. Numbers just kinda made sense in and of themselves prior to calculus but I don't think any common core silliness would have prevented me from losing interest in that on literal day 1.

It's always been basic for me. Multiplication is just addition that's a bit more complex. Division is just reverse multiplication. Fractions are just division with non-integers. Decimals are alternative fractions. I don't need to draw weird tic tac toe looking block things or whatever to handle those functions.

But I will make some concessions to you... I dont and never have kids so I don't give a fuck on that front. I don't plan on ever teaching so my opinion isn't relevant beyond itself. Kids are generally dumb and have garbage attention spans so if something gets results, it gets results... and just because I've understood numbers and found elementary arithmetic to be easy and basic doesn't mean every kid will.

I just don't see how common core is necessary. It seems the same as building a literal matter teleportation machine with the sole goal of having it teleport a person across the street instead of having to walk.
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I agree it works and it's good for kids. As others have stated, it's the parents that either don't get it or have a philosophical opposition to "big gubmint".
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CasualGuy posted...

Machete posted...

I've seen a defense of common core. It was "if kids move out of state, they won't have to catch up or have to deal with stuff that they already have learned as a result of moving." That makes sense in and of itself, but actual defense of the way they teach math in common core was not even addressed at all. Why can't they just teach math normally and have that be a standard everywhere so that they achieve the goal of the system without doing a bunch of weird shit that doesn't make sense?

Just because it's new to you doesn't mean it's weird or doesn't make sense.

Kids have wayyyyyyy better number sense through common core.

What do you mean by number sense?
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PrideOfLion posted...

People think common core is something it's not, mostly

I'm gonna go with this, because I thought it was something else entirely before reading this topic.
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markconigliaro posted...

Of course explaining every step to a class is slower than the "old" way. Basically the argument is "what's wrong with the old way" because they think common core completely replaces what we all know already.

That's pretty much the same thing as the old way, just in a different layout and probably less confusing.
....35
..x12
-------
....10
....6
....5
..3
----------
..420

Old way would take forever also if you are explaining every bit. People just don't like anything that's different because different is scary.
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markconigliaro posted...

It's parents who don't understand it. They see the pictures/videos of simple math problems done in a "complicated" way and freak out because they don't understand. This video was very popular a few months ago as proof that common core is bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlfa5v3ullg" data-time="

Of course explaining every step to a class is slower than the "old" way. Basically the argument is "what's wrong with the old way" because they think common core completely replaces what we all know already.

The explanation is long but that's basically how I've always done math.
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Sabram posted...

The explanation is long but that's basically how I've always done math.

It's how people who are decent at math tend to do it. The goal isn't to reach us, it's to help the kids who struggle how to think the same way we do.
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YookaLaylee posted...

CasualGuy posted...

Machete posted...

I've seen a defense of common core. It was "if kids move out of state, they won't have to catch up or have to deal with stuff that they already have learned as a result of moving." That makes sense in and of itself, but actual defense of the way they teach math in common core was not even addressed at all. Why can't they just teach math normally and have that be a standard everywhere so that they achieve the goal of the system without doing a bunch of weird shit that doesn't make sense?

Just because it's new to you doesn't mean it's weird or doesn't make sense.

Kids have wayyyyyyy better number sense through common core.

What do you mean by number sense?

It's basically how well someone understands numbers and how they relate to each other, and how different operations affect them.

For example, let's say you have four single digit numbers and I want you to use basic operations to make a larger number. People with good number sense can do this in their heads quickly. People with poor number sense probably need paper or use their fingers to count.

Like use 8,5,6,2 to make the number 24 usimg each number only once (using addition/subtraction/multiplication/division)

With good number sense kids can solve this in <10 seconds.

It's more complicated than that though obviously.
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Common core is literally doing basic math by still doing basic math with unneeded extra steps
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CasualGuy posted...

YookaLaylee posted...

CasualGuy posted...

Machete posted...

I've seen a defense of common core. It was "if kids move out of state, they won't have to catch up or have to deal with stuff that they already have learned as a result of moving." That makes sense in and of itself, but actual defense of the way they teach math in common core was not even addressed at all. Why can't they just teach math normally and have that be a standard everywhere so that they achieve the goal of the system without doing a bunch of weird shit that doesn't make sense?

Just because it's new to you doesn't mean it's weird or doesn't make sense.

Kids have wayyyyyyy better number sense through common core.

What do you mean by number sense?

It's basically how well someone understands numbers and how they relate to each other, and how different operations affect them.

For example, let's say you have four single digit numbers and I want you to use basic operations to make a larger number. People with good number sense can do this in their heads quickly. People with poor number sense probably need paper or use their fingers to count.

It's more complicated than that though obviously.

I guess that makes sense. I didnt learn common core, but I break down numbers in my head to make it easier to add them together and I can do mental math pretty quickly.
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Sage JJ posted...

Common core is literally doing basic math by still doing basic math with unneeded extra steps

Those unneeded extra steps will make you understand it more in the long run.
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uwnim posted...

markconigliaro posted...

Of course explaining every step to a class is slower than the "old" way. Basically the argument is "what's wrong with the old way" because they think common core completely replaces what we all know already.

That's pretty much the same thing as the old way, just in a different layout and probably less confusing.
....35
..x12
-------
....10
....6
....5
..3
----------
..420

Old way would take forever also if you are explaining every bit. People just don't like anything that's different because different is scary.

The way I do it... 35x10 = about tree fiddy. 35x2 = 70. about tree fiddy + 70 = marijuana

not as easy with bigger numbers but the same concepts apply
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I think the originator of the "common core is bad" sentement is the picture of a very young kids test question of 8+5:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/2syjhs/the_fuck_is_this_shit/

This poorly worded test question got people saying that common core is telling us that 8+5=10. The point was teaching how to split numbers to make 10s which are easier to work with. That's how most people do math quickly in their head, this was just on paper and it confused people.
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Yeah... its nice they like it but can they actually do math

If it doesnt improve their ability later on in life to do math better, like say Algebra

Then its pointless

Seems like it may even hurt long term
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Because it's not what they were taught.
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RoadsterUFO posted...

Im not for or against it, its simply illogical to try to ram down a one size fits all method of teaching students if they may understand it better being taught another way.

The whole point is to teach different methods to deal with one problem.
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Haven't math scores been getting worse since Common Core?
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Powdered_Toast posted...

Haven't math scores been getting worse since Common Core?

Yes because it's much more complex and confusing than just keeping it simple which yields faster and similar results. The argument for common core always boils down to your teaching the relationship of numbers but the reality is you get the same results and understanding from basic math
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I feel like common core works much better for mental math problems or things that you'd encounter in every day situations. The old way seems to work better once you get to higher levels though. I also feel like common core works better when you already have a solid understanding of the old way.

The ability to switch on and off as appropriate would obviously be the best choice. It should supplement, not replace.
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The kids don't like it either.

I'm interested in seeing the effect of common core on higher level math like DiffEq and Calculus

Do kids taught common core do better in those classes?
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Not likely
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It seems like this stuff is teaching to kids with issues in math to try and get them along.

It's not aimed at kids with a good understanding, who don't need to "make 10s", or whatever BS it is, to understand that 35x12 is 420.

Just like "show your work" kicks some kids in the ass. I had no trouble in HS math keeping quadratic equations and factoring problems straight in my head, skipping 3/4 of the steps, and getting it right. Many a time I had issues with teachers cause "the right answer is only worth half the mark".

No. Piss on ya. Right is right.

Couldn't do it now though.
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Much like the right hand side of the video. That's how I learned. That's what makes sense.
The other common core bs doesn't. It's needlessly overcomplicated. Waste of time. 11x10+110. And do it the right hand side way. It's that way because 11 10s make 110. And in my brain and on paper in that way I can show it. Anything beyond that is a load of horse shit.
This common core crap is "show your work". How do you arrive at that?
I showed it. I explained it. If the way we've been using for forever isn't working for you then you're the one with the damn issue.
While you're showing boxes and shit using a full piece of paper to show your bs all to arrive at the same answer I did in two steps then that's just a waste of time. And I don't have time to waste.
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It overexplains doing extremely basic math in your head while simultaneously forcing you to write out the work, obstructing the entire point of learning to do the problem in your head.

Its good to utilize if a kid is not getting said basic math at all, but the original way of teaching math forces you to eventually figure this out on your own anyway. If they are still struggling with basic math by the time theyre starting to approach basic algebra then something has gone fundamentally wrong with their education.
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CommonJoe posted...

Its good to utilize if a kid is not getting said basic math at all, but the original way of teaching math forces you to eventually figure this out on your own anyway. If they are still struggling with basic math by the time theyre starting to approach basic algebra then something has gone fundamentally wrong with their education.

That's literally the issue though. The average adult struggles with math concepts above a middle school level.
Listen to this recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShv_74FNWU" data-time="

Three grown adults did not see the issue with confusing 0.02 dollars with 0.02 cents and could not grasp the concept.

I think CE being the way we are, it's easy to forget just because we're all STEM geeks and surround ourselves with like-minded individuals, we miss the fact that a lot of people need help that we didn't get.
To turn around and say "well figure it out by yourself like I did" is missing the point that we're the ones good at math and we shouldn't just abandon people who shut down once you start to bring in more complex principles.
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I think a lot of it is parents not being able to comprehend that maybe the way they were taught in school isnt the best way.

But I dont really know enough about it to comment
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Just a reminder that Common Core isn't a curriculum. It is a set of standards.
How you choose to teach something is not dictated by Common Core.
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Hinakuluiau posted...

That's literally the issue though. The average adult struggles with math concepts above a middle school level.

And that is not an issue I would cite as inherent to how math is taught in general.

Those people may have had bad teachers, but what theyre missing is the that dollars and cents arent the same unit of measurement. If theyre that stupid even as an adult that isnt their teachers fault.

That also has absolutely nothing to do with how you come to understand 8 + 5, which is what people think of when we're talking common core.
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OP I think that most elementary students enjoy most subjects in school

But in middle school and certainly high school, when the math gets harder and the teens get apathetic, you start to see more and more students dislike math
I dont think its a common core thing though.
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