Board 8 > Hollow Knight is pretty cool, but...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Some of the stuff in this game feels too hidden. After around 85%, I had to start looking things up...this was especially true of the two DLCs, which I probably never would have discovered.

Also I hate whoever decided it was necessary for certain characters to make obnoxious noises CONSTANTLY. I now slightly regret getting all 40 charms.

Still, pretty great game. 8/10
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it's fun but something about it makes me not love it
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It's cribbing a lot from the Dark Souls style, which is pretty notorious for having a bunch of obscure shit that requires a guide or asking the community, which encourages this. Metroidvanias are kinda like this too, but maybe that's just my experience. I wasn't too put off by it, but I generally tend to use guides liberally when I'm stuck.
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The perfect ending and postgame stuff is definitely off the beaten path, but I think it's fine as long as the normal ending is easily accessible

I don't necessarily want the boss rush/DLC whatever modes getting in my face before I've gotten what I wanted out of the base game

Postgame stuff always involves a little bit of online community teamwork anyway

In the main game did look up exactly one thing- how to get past the black strands in the l jungle.

Other than that, I thought everything was extremely scrutable
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I feel like there were entire areas that I missed initially (like The Hive) because I didn't swing at the correct breakable walls. These were optional areas, but it still felt weird to hide so many of them behind breakable walls that you could easily miss.

Other things I can think of off the top of my head that felt pretty non-obvious:

Going to the abyss after finishing the White Palace because there's a new area that opens up
Getting the abyssal scream upgrade or whatever it's called by standing on the pedastal and using the spell
Getting the charm in the abyss that requires you to have like 14 lifeblood hearts
Also totally missed the fact that you were supposed to dream nail the Hollow Knight, but I guess it seems obvious in retrospect
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I feel like the main game stuff, even the stuff for the true ending wasn't that bad to find as long you're just generally exploring new areas as they appear.

The Hive was definitely ridiculous though, and that one actually kind of irritated me. Finding the Grimm Troupe stuff was also a bit silly but I can understand that more because it's DLC.

I think the only things I actually looked up were the location of The Hive, the location of Isma's Tear, and how to cause the Grimm Troupe to appear. Though, I did unintentionally find out about the new area in The Abyss online before it became relevant in my playthrough, so that might have changed my experience.

Abyss Shriek was also kinda dumb but I generally don't mind when optional upgrades require somewhat obscure things to unlock.
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Snrkiko posted...

it's fun but something about it makes me not love it

this for sure

I was enjoying it, but I stopped playing it five months ago and have absolutely no desire to return to it at all
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th3l3fty posted...

Snrkiko posted...

it's fun but something about it makes me not love it

this for sure

I was enjoying it, but I stopped playing it five months ago and have absolutely no desire to return to it at all

im in the same boat. i played a lot of it and got to a point where i just didn't feel like subjecting myself to more annoying exploration or dying to bosses a billion times and having to backtrack to it to try again

I had fun and recommend it, but it almost feels like it has too much content, if that makes sense
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I love the game but I feel that complaint. My biggest issue is that even with shortcuts and fast travel, the map still feels way too big for the speed you move through it.

And theres a sidequest where you gotta travel across it without getting hit, FUCK that.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I love the game but I feel that complaint. My biggest issue is that even with shortcuts and fast travel, the map still feels way too big for the speed you move through it.

And theres a sidequest where you gotta travel across it without getting hit, FUCK that.

There's a route that makes this pretty easy I feel like. The most obnoxious part is how they put a platforming segment with spikes literally right in front of the goal.

Anyway I did...most things in the game? Skipped out on most of the boss rush DLC though and I also never did Nightmare King Grimm. (In fairness I think I only attempted it twice)
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Tag. Only recently beat the regular story at 95% and ready to look things up. Havent seen any of that troupe stuff yet
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Getting the true ending without a guide is super satisfying. It feels like you truly are unearthing the large-scale secrets of the kingdom. One of the few games that really figured out how to push me to truly immerse myself in the world.
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VintageGin posted...

I feel like there were entire areas that I missed initially (like The Hive) because I didn't swing at the correct breakable walls. These were optional areas, but it still felt weird to hide so many of them behind breakable walls that you could easily miss.

while your criticism is definitely valid, remember the other side to this:

players who do focus on exploring every nook and cranny will feel very rewarded when they check out a strange-looking wall/path and are like "holy shit there's an entire new area here that i had no idea about"

personally part of what made hollow knight feel great was how huge it was and how rewarded you were for exploring.

agree that the stuff you spoilered was mostly unintuitive though

Daaaaaaaaaaaa FUNDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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pyresword posted...

There's a route that makes this pretty easy I feel like. The most obnoxious part is how they put a platforming segment with spikes literally right in front of the goal.

This is so true, I don't think I lost a single run to anything except those thorns.
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One thing in defense of The Hive is that it's somewhat easy to find that one spot in I think Kingdom's Edge where you can access one closed off room of The Hive, which should clue you in that there's more there.

The actual entrance is still a bit too hidden regardless though I think.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I love the game but I feel that complaint. My biggest issue is that even with shortcuts and fast travel, the map still feels way too big for the speed you move through it.

And theres a sidequest where you gotta travel across it without getting hit, FUCK that.

Benches control most enemy respawns (except for minor enemies) so you can kill everything along the way and then it's mostly down to environmental hazards.

pyresword posted...

One thing in defense of The Hive is that it's somewhat easy to find that one spot in I think Kingdom's Edge where you can access one closed off room of The Hive, which should clue you in that there's more there.

The actual entrance is still a bit too hidden regardless though I think.

Yeah, I had found that and kept coming back to Kingdom's Edge to look for the entrance but could never find it. I'm pretty sure I hit every possible wall except the correct one multiple times.
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I have 111% and I don't think I looked anything up. I've done enough "bomb every spot" in Metroid games to get in the habit of slicing every wall once I found there were breakable ones. Guess I got lucky finding the Hive like that. Godhome is...kind of unmissable though if you explore everywhere. That giant chest or whatever it is in the Junk Pit where Godseeker resides sticks out like a sore thumb.

Oh, but I guess you do have to find a breakable wall to get to the Junk Pit don't you? Eh, glad I slash everything! It's definitely rewarding design for those like me. Also naturally stumbled upon The Grimm Troupe switch thing in Howling Cliffs pretty early on. That is all you have to do to start that quest right?

But yeah, I may never beat pantheon 4 in Godhome and get the last two additional endings. Then again...I beat Nightmare King Grimm so anything's possible.
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