Board 8 > Shooting in El Paso, looks like 20 dead

(+) Yeah! (+)

foolm0r0n posted...

Trump didn't invent white supremacists and he definitely didn't invent shooting massacres. He is making it worse but the issue won't be solved by the next president (or even improved necessarily).

At the Trump Campaign, we dont make a lot of white nationalist problems. We make a lot of white nationalist problems worse.
---

Oh of course, they obviously didn't create these problems.

Just help make it worse.
---

foolm0r0n posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

not sure why he's trying to do this "i'm totally neutral" thing now.

If you say you're neutral then you can't be wrong

Especially if this lets you claim that you are, above it all and therefore better/smarter than both sides.
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

back in the days of the freedom topic, tomnook was definitely a gary johnson supporter. he literally said "gary johnson is everything i want in a politican." not sure why he's trying to do this "i'm totally neutral" thing now.

I dunno, in my experience, diehard Gary Johnson supporters tend to be unironically fairly neutral with the Lefts support of social freedoms and the Rights support of economic ones
---

So if this really is his twitter (like 99% retweets and I think I saw one photo of him), 5 days ago he retweeted someone lamenting how financial and personal data breaches had become common occurrences in the US, "like 110 degree days and mass shootings."
---

I'd still prefer more concrete evidence. Admittedly, the pictures look similar, but the guy is a generic white dude with short, brown hair. It's just slightly difficult to take the links at face value when they seem to be stemming from right wingers on message boards, who have a vested interest in finding ANYTHING to attack this guy on other than his race/gender.
---

StealThisSheen posted...

Why are you afraid to answer that

What are you looking for exactly with this? I posted the twitter of the guy. The guy in question has the same face, same tattoo, and has mentioned Dayton. Are you doubting it's the guy? I can understand suspicion of something like that, especially with how recent it is and how much people like to make fake accounts, but the stuff in this twitter goes so far back. The source is my eyes. I'm using my eyes to see that it's the same person. Are you looking for me saying that someone told me to look there, and you want to inject some bias into who told me to determine whether something is somehow leaning left or right? The twitter is the shooter until proven otherwise because too many things match. You don't need a source for that. It's ok to look at things and think for yourself instead of waiting for a right/left news media to tell you how to think about what you are seeing. If you doubt it's the shooter, that's fine, I don't have anything else to add. I cited the pictures and location all matching the suspect.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

back in the days of the freedom topic, tomnook was definitely a gary johnson supporter. he literally said "gary johnson is everything i want in a politican." not sure why he's trying to do this "i'm totally neutral" thing now.

You are thinking of someone else. I don't post in political topics. I only posted here because it was a current event that is tragic, and was somehow derailing into a left vs. right thing. El Paso was right wing person who was politically motivated. Dayton was a left wing person (uncertain whether politically motivated). I wanted to post about the senselessness of it, but then saw the garbage that was being posted.
---

TomNook posted...

What are you looking for exactly with this?

Because you said it was confirmed. You're probably right, it probably is him. It certainly looks like him. But it's not "confirmed" without a source that said "This is his Twitter account."

We wanted to know what that source was, which you seem to not want to say for some reason.
---

TomNook posted...

You are thinking of someone else. I don't post in political topics.

wait, you're not tomnook7? if so, i did mistake you for someone else. my apologies.
---

Lasa, I think we have two TomNooks

---

Wtf
---

TomNook posted...

What are you looking for exactly with this?

Dude just admit you got it on TD, this is really sad

Or just avoid TD (and posting things that you get from it as "confirmed") in the future if you don't want this to happen again
---

MoogleKupo141 posted...

Lasa, I think we have two TomNooks

yeah, i get this.

just found out that this tomnook posted in support of trump in the politics containment topic, so so much for being neutral.
---

foolm0r0n posted...

Dude just admit you got it on TD, this is really sad

Or just avoid TD (and posting things that you get from it as "confirmed") in the future if you don't want this to happen again

Still don't know what that is. But I guess if it did come from a right wing source, that would make the twitter in question impossible to be the shooter, so you've got a point.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

just found out that this tomnook posted in support of trump in the politics containment topic, so so much for being neutral.

How long ago was this, and was I being ironic?

Also pretty creepy.
---

TomNook 11/9/2016 1:45:03 PM#486
transience posted...
I woke up and this alternate timeline is real, Donald Trump really is our president-elect

I'm afraid to go to sleep. I'm so drunk from celebrating, that I feel like it's all a dream, and when I wake up, Hillary will be president.
Bells, bells, bells!

you tell me.
---

Fuck social media

---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

TomNook 11/9/2016 1:45:03 PM#486
transience posted...
I woke up and this alternate timeline is real, Donald Trump really is our president-elect

I'm afraid to go to sleep. I'm so drunk from celebrating, that I feel like it's all a dream, and when I wake up, Hillary will be president.
Bells, bells, bells!

you tell me.

Oh wow, you really dug up stuff. Very creepy.

That is a legit post, but it's not pro-Trump. I've never been pro-Trump. I just figured there would be less damage from Hillary. It was lose-lose that night, but felt like a win under the current circumstances. Also that was 3 years ago, and things change. I'm far more neutral now at least, and I want the whole party system to burn.

Sorry, I'm not going to dig up weird things on you though, so you can disregard this as being the shooter's twitter now. Obviously it couldn't be him with this new evidence from my past self.

Also that was literally the night of the election. I doubt I even posted in politics topics after that, outside of 1 or 2 ironic/jokey comments (if even that).
---

TomNook posted...

that would make the twitter in question impossible to be the shooter

If you got it from TD it would absolutely not be confirmed, which you so neutrally claimed.

It's just so clear you're embarrassed of your source though. It really shouldn't be a big deal or anything, it's just sadder the more you resist it.
---

I don't see why him being on the left is so unbelievable. His mother had "Stop the Alt Right" in her Facebook. His father is in tech. He is a college student in a city area. That has all the ear markings of being on the left. I mentioned this earlier and was told he was otherwise I believe.

---

foolm0r0n posted...

TomNook posted...

that would make the twitter in question impossible to be the shooter

If you got it from TD it would absolutely not be confirmed, which you so neutrally claimed.

It's just so clear you're embarrassed of your source though. It really shouldn't be a big deal or anything, it's just sadder the more you resist it.

I don't want to play the source game. I got it from a news channel in a video game Discord, and I know you that will lead people to saying "where did they get it from" or "what kind of Discord". It's all a pointless because it shifts focus to what the agenda of the source is, if there even is one, when one could instead look at what is actually presented and piece things together with their eyes and brain. People are so focused on talking heads and news that they forgot how to think for themselves.
---

"He's left" is a far cry from "he's Antifa."
---

Corrik7 posted...

His mother had "Stop the Alt Right" in her Facebook.

that doesn't say much. i know plenty of right-wing people of about my generation who have left-wing parents. (may be some kind of "my parents don't get it!" rebellious thing.)

that being said, i don't think him being on the left is unbelievable. but i'd rather wait for concrete evidence than jumping to conclusions at this point.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

"He's left" is a far cry from "he's Antifa."

He has actual retweets of pro-Antifa stuff. That doesn't mean "He's Antifa", but all my original post claimed was that he supported Antifa.

Was never my goal to make people continue to go at it. I merely tried to neutralize the argument by pointing out that both sides are doing this stupid shit. I didn't really expect to have the shooter's actual twitter as a source called into question and personally attacked for stuff I said 3 years ago. But ya know..grasping I guess.

This is why politics are garbage.
---

TomNook posted...

He has actual retweets of pro-Antifa stuff. That doesn't mean "He's Antifa", but all my original post claimed was that he supported Antifa.

Was never my goal to make people continue to go at it. I merely tried to neutralize the argument by pointing out that both sides are doing this stupid shit. I didn't really expect to have the shooter's actual twitter as a source called into question and personally attacked for stuff I said 3 years ago. But ya know..grasping I guess.

This is why politics are garbage.

I mean, he did come out clad in body armor. Antifa loves their riot gear and shit.

And, yeah, I said it earlier, man. Mental gymnastics to not condemn antifa because they are on their side. Too many people play sides here instead of just uniting against violence.

---

Corrik7 posted...

TomNook posted...

He has actual retweets of pro-Antifa stuff. That doesn't mean "He's Antifa", but all my original post claimed was that he supported Antifa.

Was never my goal to make people continue to go at it. I merely tried to neutralize the argument by pointing out that both sides are doing this stupid shit. I didn't really expect to have the shooter's actual twitter as a source called into question and personally attacked for stuff I said 3 years ago. But ya know..grasping I guess.

This is why politics are garbage.

I mean, he did come out clad in body armor. Antifa loves their riot gear and shit lol.

And, yeah, I said it earlier, man. Mental gymnastics to not condemn antifa because they are on their side. Too many people play sides here instead of just uniting against violence.

Mass shooters often wear body armor. That's why people have suggested banning it to bypass the whole "MAH SECOND AMENDMENT" argument. But if you want to talk about mental gymnastics, are you willing to unite with us against Trump and the Republican party that pushes for violence and mass destruction on a regular basis?

Oh wait, wait. An unconfirmed report that a guy was a leftist antifa member means mass-condemnation of antifa as a terrorist group, but when a guy builds bombs and sends them to a set of liberal targets highlighted by Trump, he was just a lone wolf, right?
---

Inviso posted...

Mass shooters often wear body armor. That's why people have suggested banning it to bypass the whole "MAH SECOND AMENDMENT" argument. But if you want to talk about mental gymnastics, are you willing to unite with us against Trump and the Republican party that pushes for violence and mass destruction on a regular basis?

Oh wait, wait. An unconfirmed report that a guy was a leftist antifa member means mass-condemnation of antifa as a terrorist group, but when a guy builds bombs and sends them to a set of liberal targets highlighted by Trump, he was just a lone wolf, right?

So, you condemn antifa since the guy who tried to firebomb the ice building in the northwest sent bombs?

I mean, you have people confirmed to be acting in regards to Antifa doing things, and you keep trying to deflect, deflect, deflect.

When are you going to admit it is just because they are liberals?

Dude, there are bad people on both sides. Terrorists are terrorists. Notice how I am not defending them yet you keep trying to move goal posts to not condemn your side's issues?

---

TomNook posted...

I don't want to play the source game

Then you probably shouldn't be posting "information" as potentially true, as the natural reaction is to wonder where you found that out at.

Especially when it comes to something we have limited info about and have conflicting info. You gave a conflicting bit of info, then refused to elaborate on it until just now.

It looks suspicious.
---

Corrik7 posted...

Inviso posted...

Mass shooters often wear body armor. That's why people have suggested banning it to bypass the whole "MAH SECOND AMENDMENT" argument. But if you want to talk about mental gymnastics, are you willing to unite with us against Trump and the Republican party that pushes for violence and mass destruction on a regular basis?

Oh wait, wait. An unconfirmed report that a guy was a leftist antifa member means mass-condemnation of antifa as a terrorist group, but when a guy builds bombs and sends them to a set of liberal targets highlighted by Trump, he was just a lone wolf, right?

So, you condemn antifa since the guy who tried to firebomb the ice building in the northwest sent bombs?

I mean, you have people confirmed to be acting in regards to Antifa doing things, and you keep trying to deflect, deflect, deflect.

When are you going to admit it is just because they are liberals?

Dude, there are bad people on both sides. Terrorists are terrorists. Notice how I am not defending them yet you keep trying to move goal posts to not condemn your side's issues?

You ARE defending them. Yes or no: is the Trump administration, and conservative media, responsible for the violent rhetoric that led to the violent attacks that befell El Paso, Texas, Christchurch, New Zealand, Quebec City, Quebec?
---

Inviso posted...

You ARE defending them. Yes or no: is the Trump administration, and conservative media, responsible for the violent rhetoric that led to the violent attacks that befell El Paso, Texas, Christchurch, New Zealand, Quebec City, Quebec?

No, they are not responsible.

You literally just asked if Trump is responsible for an attack that happened in New Zealand. Good grief, pal. Like, how did you even get to that logically.

---

Corrik7 posted...

Inviso posted...

You ARE defending them. Yes or no: is the Trump administration, and conservative media, responsible for the violent rhetoric that led to the violent attacks that befell El Paso, Texas, Christchurch, New Zealand, Quebec City, Quebec?

No, they are not responsible.

You literally just asked if Trump is responsible for an attack that happened in New Zealand. Good grief, pal. Like, how did you even get to that logically.

So then Antifa is responsible for ZERO attacks? By your logic, I mean.
---

Antifa is on my side? Last I checked, they said "liberals get the bullet, too."

Also, I'd like to see proof of this dude putting together a manifesto that proves he did what he did to help the Antifa movement. Because nothing says "Anti-Facism" like shooting your sibling and a bunch of black people.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

Antifa is on my side? Last I checked, they said "liberals get the bullet, too."

Also, I'd like to see proof of this dude putting together a manifesto that proves he did what he did to help the Antifa movement. Because nothing says "Anti-Facism" like shooting your sibling and a bunch of black people.

The guy who firebombed ICE did have a manifesto.

---

Corrik7 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Antifa is on my side? Last I checked, they said "liberals get the bullet, too."

Also, I'd like to see proof of this dude putting together a manifesto that proves he did what he did to help the Antifa movement. Because nothing says "Anti-Facism" like shooting your sibling and a bunch of black people.

The guy who firebombed ICE did have a manifesto.

Cool, what does this have to do with the Dayton shooter?
---

TheRock1525 posted...

Cool, what does this have to do with the Dayton shooter?

Cuz he put together a manifesto just as you described.

I am not saying this shooting was in the name of Antifa. I am saying Antifa is bad people.

---

TomNook posted...

when one could instead look at what is actually presented and piece things together with their eyes and brain

Sure

Just don't call it confirmed and don't call it neutral next time
---

Corrik7 posted...

Cuz he put together a manifesto just as you described.

The Dayton shooter did? I'm sure you have a link as proof.
---

Corrik, you brought up the KKK, Neo-Nazis and Antifa as all being violent, terrorist organizations. Now, the El Paso shooter, who had an actual manifesto, and has more confirmed information now, is now a member of the KKK, correct? He's not a Neo-Nazi, correct? And he's certainly not a member of Antifa, correct? So you brought up three unrelated terrorist organizations, apropos of nothing. Do you believe that the El Paso shooter, who shot up a mall for a KNOWN political reason, is a terrorist? And if so, what terrorist organization is he part of?

Can you understand why you come across as full of shit when you try to "both sides" antifa?
---

And sure, Antifa is bad people but here are some facts:

Antifa has yet to kill anyone.
Antifa is not a left-wing organization.
They are barely an organization to begin with with no central leadership.
---

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts/

Here is a source btw for tomnook.

"On social media, the suspects biography started to emerge. On his Twitter page, reviewed by Heavy, he described himself as he/him / anime fan / metalhead / leftist / im going to hell and im not coming back. He wrote on Twitter that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, I want socialism, and ill not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding. The Greene County Board of Elections lists his party as Dem. You can read a roundup of his tweets which also dealt with Parkland, Florida and 9/11 hereand later in this article."

---

TomNook posted...

He has actual retweets of pro-Antifa stuff. That doesn't mean "He's Antifa", but all my original post claimed was that he supported Antifa.

Was never my goal to make people continue to go at it. I merely tried to neutralize the argument by pointing out that both sides are doing this stupid shit. I didn't really expect to have the shooter's actual twitter as a source called into question and personally attacked for stuff I said 3 years ago. But ya know..grasping I guess.

This is why politics are garbage.

Stop being disingenuous. There is no evidence whatsoever that this guy, even if you operate under the assumption that is his Twitter, did the shooting to further leftist causes or was fighting fascism. Every single one of these terrorists, the right spreads disinformation that the shooting is related to antifa, including the actual police. However whenever anyone says uh they have a right wing manifesto saying they hate women or Muslims or immigrants and that's why they did it, it is always let's not talk politics and make this political. Sorry, the feds are political. The cops are political. Your boss is political. Your landlord is political. Not making things political is de facto supporting the status quo.

If you are right wing, you are advocating to make the world less equal, more violent. If you are neutral you are doing the same, because the right wing is doing both of those things successfully in the current system. If you aren't political and supporting the left wing, you don't give a shit about even beginning to address any of the causes of violence in this country and around the world and if you worry about antifa, you know that you are a fascist or "neutral" and deserve to fear them.

You do realize that Heavy does not do original reporting, right? That they just cite other news sources?

Hence their stupid "FIVE FACTS" style reporting.
---

Antifa isn't an organization, antifa is anyone who participates in anti-fascist action, which to be clear, is a good thing. Fascism is bad. Antifa is good.

Antifa is also a bunch of dumb white people in their early twenties with too much time and money which someone brought up earlier.

They are definitely far fringier than the far right but just as stupid.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Antifa isn't an organization, antifa is anyone who participates in anti-fascist action, which to be clear, is a good thing. Fascism is bad. Antifa is good.

Neo Nazi isn't an organization either. The are both a collection of groups that are under this umbrella.

---

Leafeon13N posted...

Antifa is also a bunch of dumb white people in their early twenties with too much time and money which someone brought up earlier.

They are definitely far fringier than the far right but just as stupid.

Thank you. This is all I asked. Condemn all idiots. The amount of people trying to jump thru hoops to say this easy response is astonishing. I respect that, red.

---

Corrik7 posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

Antifa isn't an organization, antifa is anyone who participates in anti-fascist action, which to be clear, is a good thing. Fascism is bad. Antifa is good.

Neo Nazi isn't an organization either. The are both a collection of groups that are under this umbrella.

What organization is the El Paso shooter working under the banner of?
---

TheRock1525 posted...

You do realize that Heavy does not do original reporting, right? That they just cite other news sources?

Hence their stupid "FIVE FACTS" style reporting.

I have yet to see a heavy article steer me wrong and link to it often. I did so about the garlic festival shooter also. Is there something in their article you wish to refute?

---

Umbreon posted...

TomNook posted...

I don't want to play the source game

Then you probably shouldn't be posting "information" as potentially true, as the natural reaction is to wonder where you found that out at.

Especially when it comes to something we have limited info about and have conflicting info. You gave a conflicting bit of info, then refused to elaborate on it until just now.

It looks suspicious.

foolm0r0n posted...

TomNook posted...

when one could instead look at what is actually presented and piece things together with their eyes and brain

Sure

Just don't call it confirmed and don't call it neutral next time

I posted the shooter's twitter. Do you want a news link that has political sway to the left or right? Posting the actual person's twitter is literally as neutral as it gets. That was exactly what I was trying to avoid, because if posted a right source, it would be like "this doesn't count becuase it's right wing" and if I posted a left source "this doesn't count because it's left wing".

Nrrr posted...

Stop being disingenuous. There is no evidence whatsoever that this guy, even if you operate under the assumption that is his Twitter, did the shooting to further leftist causes or was fighting fascism.

I never said he did. In fact, I even said multiple times that he probably didn't do the shooting for political reasons. I just said he supports Antifa. You can support something, and not do something for them for a cause.
---

No. Antifa is not fringy. The specific people you are thinking of when you think Antifa are fringy. Again, I can't believe I need to remind people that anti-fascism is good, actually, but here we are.

Corrik7 posted...

Thank you. This is all I asked. Condemn all idiots. The amount of people trying to jump thru hoops to say this easy response is astonishing. I respect that, red.

again, why do you demand that we condemn antifa in a topic about a white supremacist who just killed 20 people
---