Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 236: The Obama's new house is half baked

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like Ive said before, watch or listen to her first episode (shes been on twice now) on the Joe Rogan Experience, thats what really sold me on her.

Im not saying she hasnt said some weird stuff, but shes not evil or whatever
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xp1337 posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I genuinely wonder why that is

Do you mean actual "moderates" or are you using it even more ironically to mean the alt-right? If the former... I'm actually not sure I've seen much of that. If the latter, well, I really don't want to get into another fight but genuinely from what I've seen it's "ironically" on a more interventionalist/hostile side.

I remember seeing her garner praise from the right for calling out Obama on not using the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism" back when Republicans were trying to make that a thing. Shortly after 2016, I believe Bannon more or less echoed that saying she "got that issue" or something like that. I know the snap response from you would be that she's against intervention and all that but I'm just telling you what I've seen from the right and why they say they approve her.

And while I'm not sure I've seen the right explicitly praise her for this because I try not to go too far into the bubble, I imagine attacking Hirono, etc. saying they were going after religious beliefs when interviewing judicial nominees of Trump's helped.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I also wonder if someone not lazy like me could research and make a good case that Biden as the candidate to bring in the moderate Right is actually faulty?

i am also lazy and so will not do research but i can riff on this too

I think the case to be made here can take two approaches. First that the "moderate right" no longer exists and has been captured by Trumpism and so there is no audience here to bring in. The second, and I suspect the one more appealing to you, is that you're largely talking WWC types here and that economic populism could be an effective vehicle to bring them in. It's what Trump did in 2016... only he then completely and utterly failed to deliver on it. You could probably make the case that making that argument again, but from the left, and from someone who is believed to be credible on actually delivering could pick some of them up. This is essentially Sanders's theory of the case I think. Though I would throw a cautionary flag up and refer back to argument one, which is that this group doesn't really exist, and will still back Trump anyway, citing the way-too-many stories about "we talked to these rust belt trump voters in a diner about their plant closing, here's why they're still with him" you see in the NYT.

1) I think this is a good post
2) Is this a copy and paste of something youve posted before? It gave me incredible deja vu
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

2) Is this a copy and paste of something youve posted before? It gave me incredible deja vu

It is not. I don't save my posts like that. That said, it is entirely possible I've written up something similar in the past and just came up with something close to it again by coincidence. It happens when we revisit topics I've noticed. I mean, it makes sense that it would, but it does make me feel weird sometimes! Like I only have like five basic thoughts and it's all just rephrasing. >_>
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Beto has completely and utterly emasculated himself in the eyes of the average Texan. He wouldn't get 40% in the general there.

fam I live in Texas and there are still Beto signs and bumper stickers everywhere

also there are poll numbers on this, do some basic fucking research

There are no legitimate polls because there's a 0% chance he is on the ticket. I don't think the average Texan much cares for his "I'm sorry for being born white" self humiliation.
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Speaking of LGBT Rights...

Trump's Justice Department submits amicus brief to Supreme Court saying that gay workers are not protected by federal civil rights laws.

"Most pro-LGBT President Ever!"
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Dancedreamer posted...

Trump's Justice Department submits amicus brief to Supreme Court saying that gay workers are not protected by federal civil rights laws.

Because they aren't...

Why would they support a position that would be immediately overturned in court?
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Tulsi should become God-Emperor
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Beto has completely and utterly emasculated himself in the eyes of the average Texan. He wouldn't get 40% in the general there.

fam I live in Texas and there are still Beto signs and bumper stickers everywhere

also there are poll numbers on this, do some basic fucking research

There are no legitimate polls because there's a 0% chance he is on the ticket. I don't think the average Texan much cares for his "I'm sorry for being born white" self humiliation.

lmao the average texan is nonwhite
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Beto has completely and utterly emasculated himself in the eyes of the average Texan. He wouldn't get 40% in the general there.

fam I live in Texas and there are still Beto signs and bumper stickers everywhere

also there are poll numbers on this, do some basic fucking research

There are no legitimate polls because there's a 0% chance he is on the ticket. I don't think the average Texan much cares for his "I'm sorry for being born white" self humiliation.

lmao the average texan is nonwhite

Hispanics are white d00d
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Hispanics are white d00d

Not according to most Republicans.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Hispanics are white d00d

Thanks for conceding the argument, saves me a lot of time
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Hispanics are white d00d

Thanks for conceding the argument, saves me a lot of time

Can't tell if you're serious.

Hispanics are, by definition, white. I guess you don't understand race vs ethnicity?
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Hispanics are white d00d

Even the black ones?
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Xeybozn posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Hispanics are white d00d

Even the black ones?

Texas doesn't have a black Hispanic plurality
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Maybe someone should tell Republican Senator from Texas Cornyn this given he tweeted out a story back in June with the headline: "Texas gained almost nine Hispanic residents for every additional white resident last year."
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xp1337 posted...

Maybe someone should tell Republican Senator from Texas Cornyn this given he tweeted out a story back in June with the headline: "Texas gained almost nine Hispanic residents for every additional white resident last year."

I'm sure someone has. He's still wrong.
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https://twitter.com/nytpolitics/status/1165036329106849794
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red13n posted...

You know what would get me immediately on board with a candidate(I'm undecided right now), coming up with a plan on what they are going to do in the short term without full control to shore up Obamacare so we arent fucked in the short term while saying they will work on a plan for true health care for all when the opportunity arises.

i want to agree with you, but sometimes it feels like an inch is equally as far away as a mile in this climate

it's not like obama was trying to do anything super crazy, but it appears to be political suicide for republicans to go along with absolutely anything the democrats propose

so after 8 years of republicans resisting an inch at maximum power, why not shoot for a mile?
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If the republicans refuse to compromise on healthcare at all and won't give an inch, the correct strategy isn't a stopgap or a compromise or even "shooting for a mile", that only works if you get a large enough democratic contingency in Congress to force a negotiation. The correct strategy is getting people politically involved and organized, agitating and pressuring the politicians involved until they cave or are replaced by someone who will. Only Bernie will do that. Everyone else will shrug and say sorry we don't have the votes. And this goes for just about every issue.

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https://twitter.com/ArthurSchwartz/status/1165003819413135360

how many more stops are even on the gaffe train my god
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Nrrr posted...

If the republicans refuse to compromise on healthcare at all and won't give an inch, the correct strategy isn't a stopgap or a compromise or even "shooting for a mile", that only works if you get a large enough democratic contingency in Congress to force a negotiation. The correct strategy is getting people politically involved and organized, agitating and pressuring the politicians involved until they cave or are replaced by someone who will. Only Bernie will do that. Everyone else will shrug and say sorry we don't have the votes. And this goes for just about every issue.

Gross dude, getting people involved? Ick, leave it to the people who know better and accept begrudging compromise and/or nothing you want.
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This makes me so mad:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/brazilian-farmers-believe-they-have-the-right-to-burn-the-amazon-875879/

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GuessMyUserName posted...

https://twitter.com/ArthurSchwartz/status/1165003819413135360

how many more stops are even on the gaffe train my god

He seems to be in an arms race with Trump over who can sound more idiotic

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https://twitter.com/mviser/status/1165037411048574978?s=21

Biden references his prior event in Hanover, saying he was at the medical school. Then maybe that he was on campus but not technically at the school. Then looks at the press:
"I want to be clear. Im not going nuts. Im not clear if it was the medical school or on the campus"

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I want to be clear. Im not going nuts.

Oh, phew. False alarm guys, he's fine.
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at least he has self-awareness
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Jakyl25 posted...

GuessMyUserName posted...

https://twitter.com/ArthurSchwartz/status/1165003819413135360

how many more stops are even on the gaffe train my god

He seems to be in an arms race with Trump over who can sound more idiotic

Hes losing. Biden just sounds like an old man. Trump sounds like hes actually an idiot.

I don't think anyone could rightly call Biden an idiot. Hes just old. Things like that are hopefully unfortunately going to happen to all of us. I wouldn't crucify him for it.

(i just wouldn't elect him president because of it)

I suppose i should amend that. I will vote for senile old Joe over Trump if he somehow wins the nomination.

Nrrr posted...

The correct strategy is getting people politically involved and organized, agitating and pressuring the politicians involved until they cave or are replaced by someone who will. Only Bernie will do that. Everyone else will shrug and say sorry we don't have the votes. And this goes for just about every issue.

lmao get out of here with this

Sanders is against getting rid of the filibuster. Only Warren (and formerly Inslee) has come out in support of getting rid of it. Has Sanders come up with anything remotely realistic for how he's going to pass his plans when he'll need 60 votes to do so? You can't stuff everything into reconciliation. It's nice to say "we'll have millions of people rise up for a political revolution" but excuse me when I don't believe McConnell is going to cave. There's a reason he wrote an op-ed the other day saying Democrats shouldn't get rid of the filibuster.

This is a real issue with Sanders. He (and admittedly everyone but Warren) don't have answers for this. I think Harris has explained some executive action she could take, but it's way past time for everyone to realize the filibuster is and has been a barrier to progressive change in this country and it needs to go. Thinking and saying you're going to have a blue tsunami that gives us like 62 seats (or flips enough Republican votes to effectively have that many votes) is nice but utterly unrealistic and only setting yourself up for disappointment. You have to acknowledge the reality that the Senate is rigged against you and it's going to be tough as nails to work through it.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

This makes me so mad:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/brazilian-farmers-believe-they-have-the-right-to-burn-the-amazon-875879/

Serious question, what about this article makes you mad?
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xp1337 posted...

This is a real issue with Sanders. He (and admittedly everyone but Warren) don't have answers for this. I think Harris has explained some executive action she could take, but it's way past time for everyone to realize the filibuster is and has been a barrier to progressive change in this country and it needs to go. Thinking and saying you're going to have a blue tsunami that gives us like 62 seats (or flips enough Republican votes to effectively have that many votes) is nice but utterly realistic and only setting yourself up for disappointment. You have to acknowledge the reality that the Senate is rigged against you and it's going to be tough as nails to work through it.

This is where all the candidates are pretty much losing me. Big talk, no realistic plan.

Not even talk of how they are going to help win more seats because there likely is nothing major that can be passed til 2022 at least.

GildedFool posted...

Serious question, what about this article makes you mad?

That Bolsonaro is letting these people burn down the Amazon

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GildedFool posted...

Serious question, what about this article makes you mad?

I would assume the fact that the Amazon is approaching a critical point where a lot of it will just die. Aside from the loss of biodiversity there, the Amazon is kind of critical for the climate. Not only would you be severely hampering the planet's ability to deal with carbon... you'd be releasing more of it into the atmosphere at the same time burning it down.

If you think climate models are dire now (and they keep coming out with stories like, "actually we're 30 years ahead of the worst case scenario models showed") just wait for them to reflect the fact that 40% of the world's rainforest disappeared.

In a sense, I can somewhat understand Brazil's position here in that the developed world had no problem (and still largely doesn't!) with short-term economic gain at the expense of wrecking the climate but is now turning around and going "whoa guys you can't do this, the planet will die!" but the stakes are too high. It's hypocritical, sure, but with so much on the line there's a bigger picture before getting into that IMO. Ideally I think foreign aid should try to supplement/subsidize to prevent the need for destroying it for economic development but lol good luck at getting any side to agree to that.
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https://www.telesurenglish.net/amp/news/Bolivia-Orders-Worlds-Largest-Air-Tanker-to-Combat-Amazon-Fires-20190822-0002.html

Socialism or barbarism

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Disneyland measles case has informed me that people are actually blaming the measles outbreak on refugees/illegal immigration with 0 evidence and facts completely disproving such a correlation exists.

People are assholes.

Also we should definitely shoot all the anti-vaxxers out of a cannon to live on their own disease-ridden island.
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red13n posted...

Disneyland measles case has informed me that people are actually blaming the measles outbreak on refugees/illegal immigration with 0 evidence and facts completely disproving such a correlation exists.

People are assholes.

Also we should definitely shoot all the anti-vaxxers out of a cannon to live on their own disease-ridden island.

Fun fact: this is actually why Trump was so desperate to buy Greenland
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/mviser/status/1165037411048574978?s=21

Biden references his prior event in Hanover, saying he was at the medical school. Then maybe that he was on campus but not technically at the school. Then looks at the press:
"I want to be clear. Im not going nuts. Im not clear if it was the medical school or on the campus"

Dartmouth's medical school is at the far end of the campus so it's actually very easy to be unsure where he might have been speaking.
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Leafeon13N posted...

xp1337 posted...

This is a real issue with Sanders. He (and admittedly everyone but Warren) don't have answers for this. I think Harris has explained some executive action she could take, but it's way past time for everyone to realize the filibuster is and has been a barrier to progressive change in this country and it needs to go. Thinking and saying you're going to have a blue tsunami that gives us like 62 seats (or flips enough Republican votes to effectively have that many votes) is nice but utterly realistic and only setting yourself up for disappointment. You have to acknowledge the reality that the Senate is rigged against you and it's going to be tough as nails to work through it.

This is where all the candidates are pretty much losing me. Big talk, no realistic plan.

Not even talk of how they are going to help win more seats because there likely is nothing major that can be passed til 2022 at least.

Abolish the Senate.
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Leafeon13N posted...

xp1337 posted...

This is a real issue with Sanders. He (and admittedly everyone but Warren) don't have answers for this. I think Harris has explained some executive action she could take, but it's way past time for everyone to realize the filibuster is and has been a barrier to progressive change in this country and it needs to go. Thinking and saying you're going to have a blue tsunami that gives us like 62 seats (or flips enough Republican votes to effectively have that many votes) is nice but utterly realistic and only setting yourself up for disappointment. You have to acknowledge the reality that the Senate is rigged against you and it's going to be tough as nails to work through it.

This is where all the candidates are pretty much losing me. Big talk, no realistic plan.

Not even talk of how they are going to help win more seats because there likely is nothing major that can be passed til 2022 at least.

I dont get why Bernie enrages some of you (specifically Xp, Im following up on your comment Red) in such a way when you dont even know his message.

Bernies campaign slogan is Not Me, Us.

He has basically said yo I have all these plans but we cant do shit without a surge of political activism because the system is stacked against real change.

Thats what Cyclo was referring to.

If you actually think small positive compromises are possible, you must have been asleep during Obamas Presidency. Its not happening.
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So Bennie's mantra is "hey I know the majority of people don't want my policies so the only way we can pass them is if we throw tantrums"
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No goofy, its the acknowledgement that the (much larger) youth and Left voting block isnt as politically active in our system because theyre constantly told improvements are impossible.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

So Bennie's mantra is "hey I know the majority of people don't want my policies so the only way we can pass them is if we throw tantrums"

That's essentially Mitch McConnell's strategy. It's a good one.
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red13n posted...

Disneyland measles case has informed me that people are actually blaming the measles outbreak on refugees/illegal immigration with 0 evidence and facts completely disproving such a correlation exists.

People are assholes.

Also we should definitely shoot all the anti-vaxxers out of a cannon to live on their own disease-ridden island.

SmartMuffin did this same blame game awhile ago so I guess its a theory that has been floating around the alt-right for awhile

completely ignoring the fact that Latin American countries have a very strong vaccination rate

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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1165111122510237696?s=20

For all of the Fake News Reporters that dont have a clue as to what the law is relative to Presidential powers, China, etc., try looking at the Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977. Case closed!

Trump maintains he does have the power to hereby decree that businesses pull out of China. Anyone have any insight?

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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/24/world/asia/hong-kong-protests.html

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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1165111122510237696?s=20

For all of the Fake News Reporters that dont have a clue as to what the law is relative to Presidential powers, China, etc., try looking at the Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977. Case closed!

Trump maintains he does have the power to hereby decree that businesses pull out of China. Anyone have any insight?

Based on Wikipedia, hes right. He can just declare an embargo on China. Jefferson of course did it with Britain and France.
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Sounds extremely non-applicable to trade with China:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Economic_Powers_Act

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Sounds extremely non-applicable to trade with China:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Emergency_Economic_Powers_Act

What? It says the president has the sole authority to decide if it's applicable or not. So if Trump says so.....

I'm really surprised Congress ever passed this law, giving the president so much power.
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I think it would apply, but it is flimsy.

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That said, Trump only ordered companies to think about it, not do anything. And it would be really really hard to enforce this law without getting it stricken as unconstitutional at least as applied. Congress lacks the constitutional power to make the president into a dictator.
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