Poll of the Day > Star wars debate *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

There was a video someone that broke the theory that stormtroopers were ordered to miss on purpose. Apparently to track the gang to the resistance and what have you.

You can even see a scene were Vader makes Boba miss as he was taking a shot.

Thoughts?
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They miss because if the heroes got shot by run of the mill foot soldiers the movies would be 10 minutes long and fucking stupid.

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Even if the theory was wrong the protagonists can't ever be killed because they have plot-armour.
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If in any movie there's a rag tag group of heroes fighting a enemy army, some of them should at least die.
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As far as the story is concerned (basically, bumbling acting aside), Storm Troopers are elite soldiers. Masters of warfare. Remember, these are the guys that executed Order 66, they wiped out nearly the entirety of Jedi forces. Even the worst amongst them is a crack shot.

It's really not that much of a stretch to imagine they're giving the heroes just enough rope to hang themselves with. The Empire was actually doing pretty great right up until their leader was, literally and figuratively, overthrown by the second in command.

Red_Frog posted...

As far as the story is concerned (basically, bumbling acting aside), Storm Troopers are elite soldiers. Masters of warfare. Remember, these are the guys that executed Order 66, they wiped out nearly the entirety of Jedi forces. Even the worst amongst them is a crack shot.

It's really not that much of a stretch to imagine they're giving the heroes just enough rope to hang themselves with. The Empire was actually doing pretty great right up until their leader was, literally and figuratively, overthrown by the second in command.

The clone troopers did O66, not the storm troopers

hypnox posted...

There was a video someone that broke the theory that stormtroopers were ordered to miss on purpose.

Or maybe the force was protecting them. Most of the missing happened when force-attuned individuals were nearby.
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Red_Frog posted...

As far as the story is concerned (basically, bumbling acting aside), Storm Troopers are elite soldiers. Masters of warfare. Remember, these are the guys that executed Order 66, they wiped out nearly the entirety of Jedi forces. Even the worst amongst them is a crack shot.

It's really not that much of a stretch to imagine they're giving the heroes just enough rope to hang themselves with. The Empire was actually doing pretty great right up until their leader was, literally and figuratively, overthrown by the second in command.

Yeah no, clone troopers were the real elite soldiers who were bred and trained to win wars (and kill Jedi).

Stormtroopers are just average humans who are just beaten with a stick to guarantee they stay loyal to the empire ever since clones were phased out due to cost and being deemed a liability due to one batch being turned traitor, and depending on source material (which doesn't help with the Disney holocaust of the EU) they have varying levels of training from conscripts to professional soldiers.
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aHappySacka posted...

Red_Frog posted...

As far as the story is concerned (basically, bumbling acting aside), Storm Troopers are elite soldiers. Masters of warfare. Remember, these are the guys that executed Order 66, they wiped out nearly the entirety of Jedi forces. Even the worst amongst them is a crack shot.

It's really not that much of a stretch to imagine they're giving the heroes just enough rope to hang themselves with. The Empire was actually doing pretty great right up until their leader was, literally and figuratively, overthrown by the second in command.

Yeah no, clone troopers were the real elite soldiers who were bred and trained to win wars (and kill Jedi).

Stormtroopers are just average humans who are just beaten with a stick to guarantee they stay loyal to the empire ever since clones were phased out due to cost and being deemed a liability due to one batch being turned traitor, and depending on source material (which doesn't help with the Disney holocaust of the EU) they have varying levels of training from conscripts to professional soldiers.

We're talking about the ones in the movies. Places like the Death Star are where you'd have prime candidates placed, there's no reason to assume the cream of Storm Troopers were any less capable than a clone, Olympic level semantics notwithstanding.

Jar Jar Binks is a secret Sith and is behind everything.
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From a story perspective, the stormtroopers are elite soldiers, and the main characters are just better.

Anything else is just thinking about it too hard.
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Didn't Kenobi commented that the shots on the Java sandcrawler were too accurate to be Tusken Raiders? Granted that doesn't automatically mean they are good shots but rather they might be more capable than is suggested.
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Mead posted...

They miss because if the heroes got shot by run of the mill foot soldiers the movies would be 10 minutes long and fucking stupid.

This. People act like Plot Armour isn't a thing.

Yes, stormtroopers are good shots. Obi-Wan calls them accurate and precise, and in any battle where they're not shooting at the main heroes (Tantive IV, Hoth, Endor) they usually bring down a good number of their targets.
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"only imperial stormtroopers are so precise"
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InfestedAdam posted...

Didn't Kenobi commented that the shots on the Java sandcrawler were too accurate to be Tusken Raiders? Granted that doesn't automatically mean they are good shots but rather they might be more capable than is suggested.

That just begs the question, just how terrible are Tusken Raiders at aiming?
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faramir77 posted...

InfestedAdam posted...

Didn't Kenobi commented that the shots on the Java sandcrawler were too accurate to be Tusken Raiders? Granted that doesn't automatically mean they are good shots but rather they might be more capable than is suggested.

That just begs the question, just how terrible are Tusken Raiders at aiming?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5PQB69Ohnw" data-time="
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faramir77 posted...

InfestedAdam posted...

Didn't Kenobi commented that the shots on the Java sandcrawler were too accurate to be Tusken Raiders? Granted that doesn't automatically mean they are good shots but rather they might be more capable than is suggested.

That just begs the question, just how terrible are Tusken Raiders at aiming?

still more accurate than an xcom solider with a shotgun from 5ft away
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"And these blast points... too accurate for Sand People. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."

Regardless of what actually happens in the films, it's canon in-universe that Stormtroopers are VERY good shots.

The only reason they miss in the movies is because:



Mead posted...

They miss because if the heroes got shot by run of the mill foot soldiers the movies would be 10 minutes long and fucking stupid.

This.



aHappySacka posted...

Even if the theory was wrong the protagonists can't ever be killed because they have plot-armour.

And this.

If it makes you feel better, just assume "IT WAS THE WILL OF THE FORCE!" that caused the Stormtroopers to miss every single shot, whereas they can easily gun down anyone that isn't a Skywalker or directly connected to one. Destiny says that Luke, Han, and Leia need to survive to kill the Emperor, redeem Vader, and fulfill the prophecy, so they literally cannot die. Even if Luke decided to leap headfirst into a volcano, something would save him, because Force.
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According to the Star Wars Role Playing Game Imperial Sourcebook, Second Edition, Stormtroopers have 4D6 in Blaster, while "typical" Imperial Army troops are slightly better with 4D6+1, and average Rebel troops have 3D6. Standard Stormtrooper armor also has a -1D6 penalty to Dexterity and Dexterity skills (such as Blaster).

The Stormtrooper's biggest strengths are in tactical training. When Obi Wan said "These blast points, too accurate for Sand People. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise", he may have meant, "only Stormtroopers would have the training to know where to aim to disable the Jawas' sandcrawler."
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

still more accurate than an xcom solider with a shotgun from 5ft away

Dunno how many nerd rage moments I've had in Shining Force, Fire Emblem, XCom, Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, or Disgaea where that 1% or 5% chance to miss somehow comes. At least a few of those times it resulted in me losing a battle.

captpackrat posted...

"These blast points, too accurate for Sand People. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise"

Thank you for the correction. Oddly enough, accuracy and precision are two different concepts in shooting to my understanding. The former being able to hit what you're aiming for wheres the latter being able to consistently hit the same spot.
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InfestedAdam posted...

Oddly enough, accuracy and precision are two different concepts in shooting to my understanding. The former being able to hit what you're aiming for wheres the latter being able to consistently hit the same spot.

Those definitions are basically correct (accuracy is how close the average shot is to the intended target, precision is how close shots are to one another; in statistical terms, accuracy refers to the mean distance from the target, while precision refers to the standard deviation of distance from the mean).

Worth noting that Obi-Wan uses both terms, but he's likely speaking colloquially.
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captpackrat posted...

According to the Star Wars Role Playing Game Imperial Sourcebook, Second Edition, Stormtroopers have 4D6 in Blaster, while "typical" Imperial Army troops are slightly better with 4D6+1, and average Rebel troops have 3D6. Standard Stormtrooper armor also has a -1D6 penalty to Dexterity and Dexterity skills (such as Blaster).

The various RPGs are both non-canon, as well as varying in how they evaluate stats. But even if you ignore that you also have to differentiate between "to hit" (which represents accuracy) and damage (which represents weapon type).

In the WotC D20 system, stormtroopers have +9 to attack (+13 for high-level stormtroopers). That actually makes them better shots than standard Imperial troops, clone troopers, and all but the best bounty hunters. For comparison, the lowest level stormtroopers are better shots than Han, Chewbacca, and Lando. The only "good" character with better accuracy is Luke (and then only circa RotJ, where he can presumably use the Force to make perfect shots).

Both Jango and Boba Fett have better bonuses to hit, but Jango is also supposed to be the best mercenary in the entire galaxy, while Boba is deliberately trying to live up to his father's ideal (though Jango is still considered to be better in this system - he has a +17, which is the best of any major character or general archetype by far).

Though speaking of Jango, let's remember that "the greatest mercenary in the galaxy" had to run away from the first fight he was in and lost the second major fight he was in (where he was killed), and his similarly-acclaimed son did almost nothing and then went out like a total bitch. Based solely on their performance in the films, their stats should be absolutely terrible. But that wouldn't really reflect their reputations in-universe, or how good they're supposed to be, even if the heroes beat them fairly easily.
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InfestedAdam posted...

Oddly enough, accuracy and precision are two different concepts in shooting to my understanding. The former being able to hit what you're aiming for wheres the latter being able to consistently hit the same spot.

In real world terms, yes, though almost no one actually uses "precision" that way. It's supposed to be a measure of how easily a specific result can be replicated, though most people use it to reference how "precise" a result is to a specific target when there are degrees of success.

Basically, if I shoot you I'm accurate, if I shoot you in the head directly between the eyes I'm precise.

Again, that's not technically accurate based on what the words actually mean, but that's how most laymen would use them.

In fact, Obi-Wan is literally confusing the two words in the exact line we've all been quoting. He's clearly using "accurate" and "precise" to mean the same thing.

My whole awareness of the "precision doesn't mean what you think it means" deal mostly came from high school science classes, where discussion about experimental method involved discussions of precision of results and variability of results and whether or not results were verifiable. Though it's been more than 20 years since I've had to deal with that topic so everything's relatively foggy now.
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