Poll of the Day > Would you like red light cameras in your area?

(+) Yeah! (+)

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Have them, and don't really like them, because I don't necessarily trust them, and they remove all context.
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They're ok, but I think they're too expensive for what they provide.

If they're actually cheap and don't take too many manhours to review, then I guess it's a win-win
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I dont like them but I dislike people who run red lights even more

So I guess Id rather have the former if it actually does have an effect on reducing the latter

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Have them, and don't really like them, because I don't necessarily trust them, and they remove all context.

the context of someone breaking the law?
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

the context of someone breaking the law?

If you pass through a yellow light but it changes to red a split second before you're through, 99% of cops would waive it off, but a camera has no context and no discretion and will peg you regardless.

If you enter an intersection while the light is green, but get stuck there because you're trying to turn and have no opening until the light turns red (stopping opposing traffic), you're technically running a red light, and would potentially trigger the camera, while almost no human cop would ever ticket you for that (unless it was quota week and they were WAY behind).

It also doesn't help that most systems with automated cameras also have automated ticketing (ie, with no human oversight), and getting any ticket overturned after the fact is harder than trying to get a moderation overturned on this site. Which makes borderline cases more significant.

I don't trust ANY automated system that runs things with no oversight and no context, because I tend to have a very subjective and context-based view of reality, and I don't like objective either/or punishment systems. I dislike "If A, then B" morality, and vastly prefer "Why A? Depending on your answer, then either B, C, D, or maybe even E."

It's sort of similar (though on a much lower scale) to why we differentiate between things like murder, justifiable homicide, self-defense, or insanity pleas. WHY something happens is often as important as WHAT happens, and without context you remove that from the equation entirely.
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I'd love them, but to accompany them I'd also like to see longer orange lights at some intersections around here.
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it's only illegal if you aren't past the crosswalk when it turns red.
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Personally I would love traffic camera like they have I European countries. It would greatly reduce the number of traffic cops that can then be moved to patrol and responders. I once lived in a bad apartment complex and called the cops because you could hear my neighbor beating his wife/girlfriend through my wall. The dispatcher even heard it when I had my phone on speaker. Did cops come? Nope.
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No I wouldn't. Even if I don't see people run red lights super often where I live, I wish they would stop, but not enough for these cameras, because sometimes they nab people for going through a yellow light when it turns red midway through, and while I dislike the people who haul ass to make a yellow, we've all been that guy at least once.

They are dangerous af to have in intersections, especially the ones the fucking flash.
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I dislike them because they often cause people to drive more unsafe than they normally would.

For example, I've seen people slam on the breaks when they realized there was a camera there as to "play it safe" (when they could have made it through) making it very unpredictable and dangerous for the person behind them.

The opposite is also true.. People often punch the gas and speed as to make sure they don't et caught in the middle of it changing.

I feel like it just makes drivers who are aware of the cameras drive in a manner that isn't their norm and often that leads to quick and sometimes bad decisions.

What I'd like to see would be a set standard amount of time that a light stays yellow. Some lights are long, some are short.
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Peterass posted...

For example, I've seen people slam on the breaks when they realized there was a camera there as to "play it safe" (when they could have made it through) making it very unpredictable and dangerous for the person behind them.

The opposite is also true.. People often punch the gas and speed as to make sure they don't et caught in the middle of it changing.

There've actually been studies that deal with statistics along those lines, and suggest that they're worse than not having them at all for exactly those sorts of reasons.

It's really a nebulous kind of field of study, though, so it's hard to say objectively that's the case, or the reverse.
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Im not sure if we have them in this area. Maybe we do. In Santa Cruz they definitely do. You could see that flash from the surface of Mars.
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No. Had them, they were removed as illegal and hazardous. Another ill-considered boondoggle at taxpayers' expense.
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No because I'm not the only person who drives my truck. And the only thing that camera cares about is who owns the truck not whos actually driving it.
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My brother in law got a ticket and couldnt dispute it because one of the photos showed him clearly in the driver seat drinking a freaking Capri Sun with a stupid grin on his face

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mooreandrew58 posted...

No because I'm not the only person who drives my truck. And the only thing that camera cares about is who owns the truck not whos actually driving it.

If you don't trust someone enough to pay a ticket they're blatantly guilty of, and assume they'll brush you off and force you to wind up paying it, you probably shouldn't trust them enough to let them drive your truck in the first place.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

No because I'm not the only person who drives my truck. And the only thing that camera cares about is who owns the truck not whos actually driving it.

If you don't trust someone enough to pay a ticket they're blatantly guilty of, and assume they'll brush you off and force you to wind up paying it, you probably shouldn't trust them enough to let them drive your truck in the first place.

Its not about the money its about what goes on my record. The whole points thing or whatever where you get too many your liscense is taken.

On what you said though you never know how a person is gonna be on something like that until it happens and most people trust their close family by default.
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FUCK NO

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Peterass posted...

For example, I've seen people slam on the breaks when they realized there was a camera there as to "play it safe" (when they could have made it through) making it very unpredictable and dangerous for the person behind them.

The opposite is also true.. People often punch the gas and speed as to make sure they don't et caught in the middle of it changing.

There've actually been studies that deal with statistics along those lines, and suggest that they're worse than not having them at all for exactly those sorts of reasons.

It's really a nebulous kind of field of study, though, so it's hard to say objectively that's the case, or the reverse.

Not to mention the instances where the localities that use the cameras shorten the length of time the light is yellow (making things less safe) so as to nab more people.

Theres a clear-coat you can get to deal with red light/speed cameras. I also saw a guy from Alberta the other day with a shroud sticking off the back of his car blocking a view of his plate from the right side. When you were right behind it you couldnt see it.

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No, I have driven 30 years without getting a ticket for running a light, but if they had cameras I would probably end up getting multiple tickets per month.

You could get one just because you don't stop by the line (if the light is turning yellow and you stop last minute).

You can get one because you pulled out a bit to turn once traffic cleared but it doesn't till the light turns red. This is common and doesn't really disrupt traffic, just ensures ONE person at least gets to turn per light cycle (or stops with no just turn lights).

How long a yellow light lasts is variable as well, which means you can get one on one light by driving through a yellow, and not on another because it lasts longer.

What is worse the cameras would probably disrupt traffic much more then it currently is, making it harder to get everywhere for everyone.Imagine those stops with no turn lights, if nobody could move forward or turn at the end when the light is yellow/red without risking a ticket? I know a few near me where you would eventually end up with a line so far back, it would block people actually trying to drive straight through (Actually it already happens at those lights like it is...which is a problem).

I'll give you this. If you delayed it, so you only got a ticket if you were in the intersection 30 seconds after it changed to red, I would be ok with that I guess. That would solve most of the problems and still catch people who were just running red lights. I do wonder how they deal with legal right turns on a red though.
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wolfy42 posted...

I'll give you this. If you delayed it, so you only got a ticket if you were in the intersection 30 seconds after it changed to red, I would be ok with that I guess. That would solve most of the problems and still catch people who were just running red lights. I do wonder how they deal with legal right turns on a red though

I think 30 seconds would be too long. Its a lot longer than it sounds. I know some lights in town that change at about that frequency. Goes from green to red in under 30 seconds actually. I hate it like one or two cars will get out and boom its red again.

Id say Idk 10 seconds maybe 15
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Fuck no, they'd make running reds that much more inconvenient!

ParanoidObsessive posted...

If you enter an intersection while the light is green, but get stuck there because you're trying to turn and have no opening until the light turns red (stopping opposing traffic), you're technically running a red light, and would potentially trigger the camera, while almost no human cop would ever ticket you for that (unless it was quota week and they were WAY behind).

You're not supposed to enter the intersection in cases like those >_>

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It also doesn't help that most systems with automated cameras also have automated ticketing (ie, with no human oversight), and getting any ticket overturned after the fact is harder than trying to get a moderation overturned on this site. Which makes borderline cases more significant.

Plus a lot of things like these tend to be run by outside vendors who, in addition to making it a lot harder to fight it, also take a cut of the money.
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Broken_Zeus posted...

You're not supposed to enter the intersection in cases like those >_>

Are you sure? I looked it up and its legal to enter the intersection while waiting for oncoming traffic to pass. Could it just be a difference in our areas, though?
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People don't run red lights in my area. Not that I'm aware of any ways.

It's stop signs they blatantly run, and turns without a turn signal that they like to violate right of way for.

BlackScythe0 posted...

People don't run red lights in my area. Not that I'm aware of any ways.

It's stop signs they blatantly run, and turns without a turn signal that they like to violate right of way for.

Ive ran two in my day.... Both cases where I thought i had it while the light was still yellow and I wasnt gonna slam on my brakes as I was already right there when it turned. I just stop when I see a yellow light these days.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

No because I'm not the only person who drives my truck. And the only thing that camera cares about is who owns the truck not whos actually driving it.

If you don't trust someone enough to pay a ticket they're blatantly guilty of, and assume they'll brush you off and force you to wind up paying it, you probably shouldn't trust them enough to let them drive your truck in the first place.

Its not about the money its about what goes on my record. The whole points thing or whatever where you get too many your liscense is taken.

On what you said though you never know how a person is gonna be on something like that until it happens and most people trust their close family by default.

you go the the court date and tell the judge you weren't the one driving... have the driver admit they were the one using it and nothing will be on your record
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LinkPizza posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

You're not supposed to enter the intersection in cases like those >_>

Are you sure? I looked it up and its legal to enter the intersection while waiting for oncoming traffic to pass. Could it just be a difference in our areas, though?

I was told to do that by my driving instructor, so either things changed in the last 10 years or it is local variance
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Have them, and don't really like them, because I don't necessarily trust them, and they remove all context.

yep
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Muscles posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

You're not supposed to enter the intersection in cases like those >_>

Are you sure? I looked it up and its legal to enter the intersection while waiting for oncoming traffic to pass. Could it just be a difference in our areas, though?

I was told to do that by my driving instructor, so either things changed in the last 10 years or it is local variance

In the UK we have yellow boxes to note when you can't enter.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

No because I'm not the only person who drives my truck. And the only thing that camera cares about is who owns the truck not whos actually driving it.

If you don't trust someone enough to pay a ticket they're blatantly guilty of, and assume they'll brush you off and force you to wind up paying it, you probably shouldn't trust them enough to let them drive your truck in the first place.

Its not about the money its about what goes on my record. The whole points thing or whatever where you get too many your liscense is taken.

On what you said though you never know how a person is gonna be on something like that until it happens and most people trust their close family by default.

you go the the court date and tell the judge you weren't the one driving... have the driver admit they were the one using it and nothing will be on your record

Still a hell of a bother. And Idk if my brother would his job is prone to letting him off work unless hes got the paperwork stating he has to go. Fortunately he rarely drives my truck and hes also a super safe driver.

Side note I dont think the cameras would like me lol I always drive with a hat and sunglasses on so proving it was actually me wouldnt be harder.
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On one hand I like them because they helped catch the person that kept stealing my license plates.

On the other, I hate them because people drive even worse around them and end up causing more problems than they help solve.

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CaptainObvius posted...

On one hand I like them because they helped catch the person that kept stealing my license plates.

On the other, I hate them because people drive even worse around them and end up causing more problems than they help solve.

Are they stealing your license plate as youre running a red light?
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LinkPizza posted...

CaptainObvius posted...

On one hand I like them because they helped catch the person that kept stealing my license plates.

On the other, I hate them because people drive even worse around them and end up causing more problems than they help solve.

Are they stealing your license plate as youre running a red light?

I would guess he reported it stolen then someone got caught having the tags driving past a camera.

Plate theft was so bad near where I grew up they actually allowed people to just put them in the back windshield
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

If you pass through a yellow light but it changes to red a split second before you're through, 99% of cops would waive it off, but a camera has no context and no discretion and will peg you regardless.

supposed to be, I think (here anyway, ie: canada) that it's only if you enter an intersection while the light is red, and the photo they send you will show your car about to enter the intersection with a red light (a family member got one, I never have).

not having left the intersection when the light turns red I don't think is (and shouldn't be) a violation.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

I would guess he reported it stolen then someone got caught having the tags driving past a camera.

Plate theft was so bad near where I grew up they actually allowed people to just put them in the back windshield

Yeah, that's pretty much what happened. My mustang was a pretty popular target to have the license plates stolen. It happened three times. Finally I found put about the lock bolts to keep it from happening.

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We already have speed cameras so I don't care. These are good for the country roads though as it helps stop wildlife becoming roadkill.
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Theyre all over the place by me, and I cant stand them. I find myself slamming on the breaks at times when I probably should be going, or gunning it so I dont get caught in the intersection as it goes red. Ive also had to sit through extra red lights on turn on green arrow only lights because people go incredibly slowly approaching the light, in order to avoid any risks. Its annoying.

That said, Ive only been nailed by a camera once, and I got it overturned. They keep video footage of your incident for an online contesting, and my incident was in the middle of a snow storm while the roads were a mess and unplowed. Everyone was going like 10 mph, and as I was approaching the intersection, the light went yellow. If I had tried to stop, I would have just slid into the intersection, so I just kept going. The video showed that the 3 cars behind me did the same. I basically argued that my decision was one based on safety, as braking could cause an accident behind me, and I would have likely come to a stop in the intersection.

Overturned.
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