Current Events > Bernie Sanders unveils 2.5 Trillion dollar Housing For All plan

(+) Yeah! (+)

ThanksUglyGod posted...

Siaperaz posted...

Free money.
Free housing.
Free healthcare.
Free colleges.
Free transportation
Free food.

I guess the Democrats have found a way to generate money out of thin air.

Yeah, it's called raising taxes and redistributing the wealth

There literally isn't enough wealth, though.
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Oof.
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I Like Toast posted...

Did you forget how trump won?

winning razor-thin pluralities in a series of winner-take-all states where sanders, warren, and other candidates have humongous operations already?
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I Like Toast posted...

tremain07 posted...

It's practically written that it's Biden vs Warren and even then, Biden is who the establishment democrats want as well as centralists, the public and even some of the right wing

How is the dnc so incompetent to have Biden leading?

it's being done on purpose if you want my opinion. It's the passing of the torch. It's like when Hulk Hogan power-slammed Andre the Giant. They want someone to take out Biden and become the new face.
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I feel like Bernies entire platform is based on hoping his base is too young to remember when all this shit he's proposing failed.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

I feel like Bernies entire platform is based on hoping his base is too young to remember when all this shit he's proposing failed.

Webmaster4531 posted...

https://www.vox.com/2014/5/30/5764096/homeless-shelter-housing-help-solutions

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Webmaster4531 posted...

Broseph_Stalin posted...

I feel like Bernies entire platform is based on hoping his base is too young to remember when all this shit he's proposing failed.

Webmaster4531 posted...

https://www.vox.com/2014/5/30/5764096/homeless-shelter-housing-help-solutions

Housing first policies for people with mental health or substance abuse issues are not the same thing as "check out this public housing thing i saw in the soviet union"

@Orchestrion

https://imgur.com/a/Y9ugLcY

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TheMikh posted...

why not just abolish property taxes and fight regulatory barriers to residential development including zoning

that is literally part of his plan

Broseph_Stalin posted...

I feel like Bernies entire platform is based on hoping his base is too young to remember when all this shit he's proposing failed.

ah yes I too remember when we built mixed-income social housing and placed public housing in the wealthiest neighborhoods

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

Housing first policies for people with mental health or substance abuse issues are not the same thing as "check out this public housing thing i saw in the soviet union"

bernie's plan is the former, the republican party talking point that has been drilled into you until you vomit it out here is the latter
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Balrog0 posted...

ah yes I too remember when we built mixed-income social housing and placed public housing in the wealthiest neighborhoods

Why do you have a fetish for forcibly locating public housing in "wealthy" neighborhoods? Why is it so important? If that public housing devolves into anything resembling the violence and depravity of the Chicago housing projects which were full of drugs, violence, and prostitution, will you accept responsibility for imposing violence on the people who just want to live normal quiet lives?

Bernie's take on public housing is wrong

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pls posted...

Why do you have a fetish for forcibly locating public housing in "wealthy" neighborhoods? Why is it so important?

because it's been tested, and it worked. data-driven studies suggest that your assumptions about what happens are completely wrong

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4933022/

This paper offers a mixed-method analysis of the municipal-level consequences of an affordable housing development built in suburban New Jersey. Opponents of affordable housing development often suggest that creating affordable housing will harm surrounding communities. Feared consequences include increases in crime, declining property values, and rising taxes. To evaluate these claims, the paper uses the case of Mt. Laurel, NJ the site of a landmark affordable housing legal case and subsequent affordable housing development. Employing a multiple time series group control design, we compare crime rates, property values, and property taxes in Mt. Laurel to outcomes in similar nearby municipalities that do not contain comparable affordable housing developments. We find that the opening of the affordable housing development was not associated with trends in crime, property values, or taxes, and discuss management practices and design features that may have mitigated potential negative externalities.

your take on public housing is wrong and based on no relevant information despite its easy availability
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pls posted...

Balrog0 posted...

ah yes I too remember when we built mixed-income social housing and placed public housing in the wealthiest neighborhoods

Why do you have a fetish for forcibly locating public housing in "wealthy" neighborhoods? Why is it so important? If that public housing devolves into anything resembling the violence and depravity of the Chicago housing projects which were full of drugs, violence, and prostitution, will you accept responsibility for imposing violence on the people who just want to live normal quiet lives?

Bernie's take on public housing is wrong

That happens when you make areas full of poor people. To reduce crime, you redistribute those people throughout multiple areas so they are less likely no come into contact with other criminal people and you don't end up with hellholes where illegal activities seem like the only way to survive.
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Sackgurl posted...

This paper offers a mixed-method analysis of the municipal-level consequences of an affordable housing development built in suburban New Jersey.

I don't give a fuck about New Jersey. Don't ignore what happened in Chicago. The communities around the projects were barely livable. Once they tore them down, things improved drastically and people could actually go to the park with their kids and walk around at night.

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pls posted...

Why do you have a fetish for forcibly locating public housing in "wealthy" neighborhoods?

When did I ever say that? Cabrini Green actually was built in a wealthy neighborhood, I'm just not old enough to remember the 1930s or the subsequent racialized suburbanization that the US experienced due to a combination of redlining, highway and mortgage subsidies, and the GI Bill.

pls posted...

If that public housing devolves into anything resembling the violence and depravity of the Chicago housing projects which were full of drugs, violence, and prostitution, will you accept responsibility for imposing violence on the people who just want to live normal quiet lives?

No, the rich people will probably just leave before any of them are harmed.

pls posted...

Bernie's take on public housing is wrong

did you read it?

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uwnim posted...

That happens when you make areas full of poor people. To reduce crime, you redistribute those people throughout multiple areas so they are less likely no come into contact with other criminal people and you don't end up with hellholes where illegal activities seem like the only way to survive.

How will you prevent people from leaving those areas and just settling down together in more stable areas that are safer and nicer?

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Spooking posted...

Bernie Sanders want to bankrupt the US. He has ill intent.

Nobody things Bernie Sanders is deliberately trying to destroy the United States. He's just an optimistic idiot who might inadvertently destroy the United States.
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Sackgurl posted...

bernie's plan is the former

It literally isn't. He wants more public housing than we would need to combat homelessness (the point being that the government should replace private enterprise for all services) and even worse, he wants national rent controls.

And don't talk to me about indoctrination if you're a Bernie supporter. You guys are left-wing redhats.

pls posted...

I don't give a f*** about New Jersey. Don't ignore what happened in Chicago. The communities around the projects were barely livable. Once they tore them down, things improved drastically and people could actually go to the park with their kids and walk around at night.

i don't give a fuck about what happened in chicago: it's not relevant and what I linked explains why:

As implied by the foregoing studies, both the general public and academic researchers have worried about the spread effects of low-income housing on surrounding neighborhoods. Spread effects, of course, are shaped by the size and density of housing projects and their spatial relationship to surrounding neighborhoods. Although Griffiths and Tita (2009) found little evidence of spread effects in Los Angeles, in Atlanta McNulty and Holloway (2000) found that the magnitude of association between racial composition and crime decreased with increasing distance of neighborhoods from housing projects. They used crime data provided by the Atlanta Police that permitted geo-coding of crime incidents by census block-groups. While their analysis speaks to the relationship between crime and distance from subsidized urban housing, it does not address the impact of the introduction of subsidized housing the heart of contention in the Mount Laurel case.

This study evaluates exactly what we're talking about. You're vomiting nonsense about a subject that is not related.
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I mean what happened in Cabrini-Green was a mixture of different issues -- but one of the big ones was indeed under-funding, which placed stress on municipal services that the city decided weren't worth it. Cities have different fiscal constraints than the federal government does. I don't think more funding is the answer to everything but housing subsidies are one of the things that we both chronically underfund and also leave the management to lower levels of government that are less able to raise funds.

E.g., one thing that happened was that a lot of the people in that area lost their jobs when industry started shutting down as we globalized and lost jobs to foreign countries. There's not a lot a public housing authority can do about that

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

It literally isn't. He wants more public housing than we would need to combat homelessness (the point being that the government should replace private enterprise for all services) and even worse, he wants national rent controls.

And don't talk to me about indoctrination if you're a Bernie supporter. You guys are left-wing redhats.

are you citing the 500k identified homeless as the only people who would benefit from this bill? clearly you have not read it or studied anything about what the government already does for housing.

HUD currently assists 5 million households. Sanders' plan would raise that to 12 million. There are 127 million households in the nation.

If the current HUD has not "replaced private enterprise" in this area, the proposed plan would not either.

You are regurgitating talking points that came from someone you should not have trusted.

Please try not to add your own hyperbole on top.
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Spooking posted...

Bernie Sanders want to bankrupt the US. He has ill intent.

Don't you defend concentration camps?
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I could've sworn Broseph Stalin was a leftist

How the fuck do I support Bernie and he doesn't

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pls posted...

I could've sworn Broseph Stalin was a leftist

How the fuck do I support Bernie and he doesn't

he's a liberal, not a leftist

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

the point being that the government should replace private enterprise for all services

Broseph_Stalin posted...

And don't talk to me about indoctrination

Yeah, you're indoctrinated. Bernie Sanders isn't abolishing private enterprise.
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Webmaster4531 posted...

Yeah, you're indoctrinated. Bernie Sanders isn't abolishing private enterprise.

Not in housing, but he does want to abolish it in the private health insurance sector.

Whether or not that's good is separate from whether or not he wants to bre

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Sackgurl posted...

HUD currently assists 5 million households. Sanders' plan would raise that to 12 million.

Don't argue with me if you're just going to point out I'm right. This isn't about helping the chronically homeless, it's about expanding public housing to anyone considered low-income. And you don't even want to admit he supports rent control.

I don't regurgitate talking points, that's a bernie bro thing. Get informed instead of following some cult leader who promises you the world.

pls posted...

Webmaster4531 posted...

Yeah, you're indoctrinated. Bernie Sanders isn't abolishing private enterprise.

Not in housing, but he does want to abolish it in the private health insurance sector.

Whether or not that's good is separate from whether or not he wants to bre

Well personally I think we should do a public option. Private insurance actually still exists in places with universal healthcare.
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

Don't argue with me if you're just going to point out I'm right. This isn't about helping the chronically homeless, it's about expanding public housing to anyone considered low-income. And you don't even want to admit he supports rent control.

I don't regurgitate talking points, that's a bernie bro thing. Get informed instead of following some cult leader who promises you the world.

I mean my only reason for supporting Bernie is his climate change plan, and MAYBE Medicare for all. (I used to work for United Healthcare, fuck that company tbqh)

I agree with you on this tho, the housing plan is nonsense. If he insists on it I might reconsider my support and just donate 2x to his opponents. Rent control is idiotic.

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Webmaster4531 posted...

Well personally I think we should do a public option. Private insurance actually still exists in places with universal healthcare.

Bernie has explicitly said he'd ban the private sector from operating in health insurance, maybe even healthcare more broadly depending on how you wanna read into his claims

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

This isn't about helping the chronically homeless, it's about expanding public housing to anyone considered low-income.

you said it was about abolishing private enterprise

were you lying when you said that? I need a yes or no out of you please.

As to the rest:

Bernie supports rent control. This would make sense if there were a competing, participating, subsidized supply source that prevented shortages, but does not make sense in a vacuum as it reduces new construction. Fortunately, he is proposing to fund a significant new supply.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

I don't regurgitate talking points, that's a bernie bro thing. Get informed instead of following some cult leader who promises you the world.

it's so cute when you deny doing a thing as you do the thing you're denying you do! but you're fooling no one, and you're the one who has not read his plan and is spouting hyperbole.
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pls posted...

Webmaster4531 posted...

Well personally I think we should do a public option. Private insurance actually still exists in places with universal healthcare.

Bernie has explicitly said he'd ban the private sector from operating in health insurance, maybe even healthcare more broadly depending on how you wanna read into his claims

Citation needed.
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pls posted...

Webmaster4531 posted...

Well personally I think we should do a public option. Private insurance actually still exists in places with universal healthcare.

Bernie has explicitly said he'd ban the private sector from operating in health insurance, maybe even healthcare more broadly depending on how you wanna read into his claims

Of course, all this means is anyone who can keep a private doctor on retainer will do so, while the rest of us are stuck with shitty proletariat care.

Sackgurl posted...

Fortunately, he is proposing to fund a significant new supply.

In which case the point raised by @Questionmarktarius earlier is valid.

Bernie cannot have it all and the private sector is more than capable of supplying quality housing at good prices when they aren't regulated to death

Webmaster4531 posted...

Citation needed

Google it, it is common knowledge by now. You aren't paying enough attention.

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Oh, Bernie doesn't hate private housing! He just wants to tax it, impose price controls and uphold the power government has with America's ridiculous zoning laws. All while pouring money into public housing. That's all!

And just ignore that time he lied about abolishing private insurance under his healthcare plan.

I'm not in a cult btw you're just indoctrinated by Republicans.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Of course, all this means is anyone who can keep a private doctor on retainer will do so, while the rest of us are stuck with shitty proletariat care.

Possibly. It depends on how we leverage technology. It may be mature enough that we can have quality care without compromising access and without having to pay a ton.

The private sector completely fucked up their opportunity in healthcare.

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

Oh, Bernie doesn't hate private housing! He just wants to tax it, impose price controls and uphold the power government has with America's ridiculous zoning laws. All while pouring money into public housing. That's all!

And just ignore that time he lied about abolishing private insurance under his healthcare plan.

I'm not in a cult btw you're just indoctrinated by Republicans.

Afaik Bernie never lied about it, he openly said he'd ban private health insurance a long time ago even

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pls posted...

I could've sworn Broseph Stalin was a leftist

How the fuck do I support Bernie and he doesn't

His views are an example of fish hook theory. Radical centrism.
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pls posted...

Google it, it is common knowledge by now. You aren't paying enough attention.

There's so many shitty conservative fake news websites.

I came across people today that said ACA reduced Medicaid when it actually expanded it today.
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Looking at some of the replies in this topic, I guess taxes don't pay for anything huh?
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

He just wants to tax it,

Bernie didn't invent property tax. WTF?
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

uphold the power government has with America's ridiculous zoning laws

he is saying that housing and transit money should be withheld from areas that don't fix their exclusionary zoning

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foreverzero212 posted...

His views are an example of fish hook theory. Radical centrism.

get outta here with that bullshit, fam

I'm a staunch centrist myself

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@Broseph_Stalin unless you think we can make zoning unconstitutional through a court case that considers it a regulatory taking or something what else do you think the federal government can do to address zoning except for incentivizing better zoning like this?

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Questionmarktarius posted...

Of course, all this means is anyone who can keep a private doctor on retainer will do so, while the rest of us are stuck with s***ty proletariat care.

i feel like we throw around the idea of quality of care going down without ever trying to evaluate what that would mean

increasing financial access to healthcare drives up use of preventative services which are very cheap compared to emergency/inpatient service, and generally consultation->diagnosis->prescription, in-out in ten minutes

if that's the 'shitty proletariat care', then good
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Sackgurl posted...

increasing financial access to healthcare drives up preventative services which are very cheap compared to emergency/inpatient service

Most insurance plans provide preventive services for free already

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Balrog0 posted...

he is saying that housing and transit money should be withheld from areas that don't fix their exclusionary zoning

"exclusionary" zoning isn't the problem, local governments have the power to block housing in areas that are already zoned for housing, and they do it all the time. The idea that restricting housing keeps rich people out and working people in is nonsense, but it doesnt' stop Bernie from believing in it.